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USAFChief
08-29-2012, 12:33 AM
http://www.startribune.com/sports/twins/167784175.html

Not sure if this has been posted anywhere here. If so, my apologies.

In a nutshell: Ryan says "I'll probably stick around. This is my fault...but I don't really plan to do anything to fix it. Maybe bring back the rotting carcass of Carl Pavano."

jokin
08-29-2012, 12:38 AM
http://www.startribune.com/sports/twins/167784175.html

Not sure if this has been posted anywhere here. If so, my apologies.

In a nutshell: Ryan says "I'll probably stick around. This is my fault...but I don't really plan to do anything to fix it. Maybe bring back the rotting carcass of Carl Pavano."

You've got to be kidding me!?! I like a stand-up guy, but this is going to become much worse than even I predicted (Hello payroll < $80M?):

"Ryan was blunt about a variety of subjects. He ..
. • Will not fire manager Ron Gardenhire.
• Won't force Gardenhire to make changes to his coaching staff.
• Considers Justin Morneau a "core" player whom he expects to thrive next season.
• Wants people to stop blaming Joe Mauer for the team's problems.
• Would consider re-signing pending free-agent pitchers Scott Baker and Carl Pavano.
• Doubts he will pursue any elite free-agent pitchers this winter, saying it will be a "thin" market and that he's averse to signing such pitchers to the long-term deals required to land them.
• Insists that he, not the previous general manager, the manager or ownership, should take the blame for this season."

Shane Wahl
08-29-2012, 12:52 AM
Not firing Gardenhire is one thing. Not "forcing" him to make coaching changes is one thing. Strongly suggesting coaching changes is another!

Morneau is the necessary trade to make and this is hopefully just smokescreen. Unless trading Parmelee is the idea? Morneau's salary is a huge move, though, even if the Twins agreed to pay half of it. That $7 million plus the BYE-BYE to Pavano (if they resign him, I will vomit) would open up the right amount for a very good FA starting pitcher signing.

I wonder what he means by "elite"? I might agree if he really means the very top top. The rung below is vital, though. It is NOT a thin market for starting pitching.

Top Gun
08-29-2012, 03:16 AM
Sure it is his fault, the fans that go to the games fault, and the tax payers fault.

Tuba
08-29-2012, 05:01 AM
"Ryan was blunt about a variety of subjects. He ..
. • Will not fire manager Ron Gardenhire.
• Won't force Gardenhire to make changes to his coaching staff.
• Considers Justin Morneau a "core" player whom he expects to thrive next season.
• Wants people to stop blaming Joe Mauer for the team's problems.
• Would consider re-signing pending free-agent pitchers Scott Baker and Carl Pavano.
• Doubts he will pursue any elite free-agent pitchers this winter, saying it will be a "thin" market and that he's averse to signing such pitchers to the long-term deals required to land them.
• Insists that he, not the previous general manager, the manager or ownership, should take the blame for this season."


Uhhh, then what exactly is the plan? Wait?

StormJH1
08-29-2012, 07:08 AM
Wow. I hope the Pohlads realize that much of this Twins decline was already set into motion by things Ryan did (and didn't do) the FIRST time around.

Agree with poster above that this is a not a "thin" FA market for SP. That sort of argument is kind of pointless when you thumb your nose at the whole idea of free agency to begin with. (Hey, how did Willingham work out?)

Seriously, Ryan's made some good moves in the past, but for every good move, he seems to handcuff us with some piece of philosophy that makes no sense.

Brock Beauchamp
08-29-2012, 07:36 AM
You've got to be kidding me!?! I like a stand-up guy, but this is going to become much worse than even I predicted (Hello payroll < $80M?):

"Ryan was blunt about a variety of subjects. He ..
. • Will not fire manager Ron Gardenhire.
• Won't force Gardenhire to make changes to his coaching staff.
• Considers Justin Morneau a "core" player whom he expects to thrive next season.
• Wants people to stop blaming Joe Mauer for the team's problems.
• Would consider re-signing pending free-agent pitchers Scott Baker and Carl Pavano.
• Doubts he will pursue any elite free-agent pitchers this winter, saying it will be a "thin" market and that he's averse to signing such pitchers to the long-term deals required to land them.
• Insists that he, not the previous general manager, the manager or ownership, should take the blame for this season."


I actually don't disagree with a lot of what he said there but this pitching market is "thin" and that he won't participate in it? WHAT?!?! The only thing I can carry away from that statement that makes me want to watch a single Twins game is 2013 is the word "elite", which is really thin this offseason. If JR is saying that the Twins won't pursue a Hamels-type player (and there isn't really one of those on the market anyway) but instead go after a Marcum/Jackson type player, I'm completely fine with that.

But if he's saying he won't pursue any decent starting pitching at all, fire the guy. Right now. That's the type of statement that is so completely illogical that it makes me want to scream. This team needs four starting pitchers. FOUR. You're not going to assemble four guys by pulling junk like Pavano off the heap and giving him innings. You might get one guy that way. No way in hell are you going to get four. Or even two.

Shane Wahl
08-29-2012, 07:58 AM
You've got to be kidding me!?! I like a stand-up guy, but this is going to become much worse than even I predicted (Hello payroll < $80M?):

"Ryan was blunt about a variety of subjects. He ..
. • Will not fire manager Ron Gardenhire.
• Won't force Gardenhire to make changes to his coaching staff.
• Considers Justin Morneau a "core" player whom he expects to thrive next season.
• Wants people to stop blaming Joe Mauer for the team's problems.
• Would consider re-signing pending free-agent pitchers Scott Baker and Carl Pavano.
• Doubts he will pursue any elite free-agent pitchers this winter, saying it will be a "thin" market and that he's averse to signing such pitchers to the long-term deals required to land them.
• Insists that he, not the previous general manager, the manager or ownership, should take the blame for this season."


I actually don't disagree with a lot of what he said there but this pitching market is "thin" and that he won't participate in it? WHAT?!?! The only thing I can carry away from that statement that makes me want to watch a single Twins game is 2013 is the word "elite", which is really thin this offseason. If JR is saying that the Twins won't pursue a Hamels-type player (and there isn't really one of those on the market anyway) but instead go after a Marcum/Jackson type player, I'm completely fine with that.

But if he's saying he won't pursue any decent starting pitching at all, fire the guy. Right now. That's the type of statement that is so completely illogical that it makes me want to scream. This team needs four starting pitchers. FOUR. You're not going to assemble four guys by pulling junk like Pavano off the heap and giving him innings. You might get one guy that way. No way in hell are you going to get four. Or even two.

Yeah, Terry Ryan's definition of "elite" weighs heavily! Or maybe it is Souhan's definition (god help us all). Avoiding 6 years and $120 million is one thing (smart), but avoiding 4 years and $50 million is another (totally stupid).

I guess saying Morneau is a core player who will thrive doesn't entail that they wouldn't be serious about trading him.

Mr. Ed
08-29-2012, 08:00 AM
"Ryan was blunt about a variety of subjects. He ..
. • Will not fire manager Ron Gardenhire.
• Won't force Gardenhire to make changes to his coaching staff.
• Considers Justin Morneau a "core" player whom he expects to thrive next season.
• Wants people to stop blaming Joe Mauer for the team's problems.
• Would consider re-signing pending free-agent pitchers Scott Baker and Carl Pavano.
• Doubts he will pursue any elite free-agent pitchers this winter, saying it will be a "thin" market and that he's averse to signing such pitchers to the long-term deals required to land them.
• Insists that he, not the previous general manager, the manager or ownership, should take the blame for this season."


Uhhh, then what exactly is the plan? Wait?

Bargain dumpster diving
Attempting to make a trade to tweak the awesome roster
HOPING guys get better.

That was this year's plan, too.

Mr. Ed
08-29-2012, 08:02 AM
"But if he's saying he won't pursue any decent starting pitching at all, fire the guy. Right now. That's the type of statement that is so completely illogical that it makes me want to scream. This team needs four starting pitchers. FOUR. You're not going to assemble four guys by pulling junk like Pavano off the heap and giving him innings. You might get one guy that way. No way in hell are you going to get four. Or even two."

Thank you. MORE fans need to realize this.

Brock Beauchamp
08-29-2012, 08:04 AM
Yeah, Terry Ryan's definition of "elite" weighs heavily! Or maybe it is Souhan's definition (god help us all). Avoiding 6 years and $120 million is one thing (smart), but avoiding 4 years and $50 million is another (totally stupid).

I guess saying Morneau is a core player who will thrive doesn't entail that they wouldn't be serious about trading him.

Agreed. I'm all for avoiding pitching contracts that are longer than four years but this team can't ignore the quality pitching that is on the market this offseason. We'll get to see another 100 loss team if they try it.

The Morneau quotes don't really bother me. JR obviously feels that Morneau's value is on the rise. If he wants to hold on to him longer, it's not the worst idea in the world. I don't think teams are offering anything of value for him right now and it's not as if the Twins need the salary relief (doubly so after JR's comments).

LimestoneBaggy
08-29-2012, 08:20 AM
I view much of this as smokescreen/not tipping my hand info. I've seen enough JR over the years to know his pension for dumpster squatting, but I really believe they are not satisfied with what we have to sign a Marcum/Jackson level pitcher (and likely take a long look at Baker's progress). I'll wait it out to get upset.

JB_Iowa
08-29-2012, 08:23 AM
This is vintage Twins ... and vintage Terry Ryan.

I honestly believe that they do not care about being elite. They care ONLY about being competitive enough to put b*tts in the seats while maximizing the return they get for the dollars they do invest. (It had to kill Ryan to throw away the Marquis and Nishioka dollars). And they recognize that the AL Central is often mediocre enough that the strategy will keep them "competitive" through most of the summer.

That's why Morneau is a "core" player -- they are still hoping to maximize the "draw" of M & M. That's why they won't take very big risks on free agent pitching -- preferring to limit the dollars they expose. Instead, they will spend limited dollars on FA pitching.

Since October 2010, I've been perfectly willing to see them totally rebuild this team -- because I recognized that they were a long way from being eliite (in my definition -- able to win in the playoffs). But that's not how they operate.

The Twins are very risk-adverse. Their moves are always calculated to minimize their exposure whlle doing just enough to bring fans through the gates and keep the dollars rolling in. They miscalculated over the last 2 years -- being decimated by injuries last year and just plain overestimating their team -- especially the starting pitching -- for this year.

But those "miscalculations" won't be enough to cause them to change their overall strategy. Someone posted on another thread last night that Kenny Williams had said the Twins could have won the World Series several times in the last 10 years if they had just been willing to spend those extra dollars. I think he was right -- and I don't think it will ever happen.

I'm not opposed to building starting pitching through trades and draft/develop and Rule V but if you're going to do that, you can't also think that you have to hold on to Morneau (or any other player if you can get a needed return).

Boom Boom
08-29-2012, 08:39 AM
Those comments about free agent pitchers bother me a lot.

Maybe I'm misinterpreting Ryan, or maybe Souhan is, but what I'm taking away is that Ryan won't pursue big-time free agent pitchers, regardless of how much money he has to do it. You can talk about trading Morneau and Span to free up some money but the Twins still won't sign any pitchers better than Pavano or Baker.

John Bonnes
08-29-2012, 08:39 AM
Souhan gives us "thin" in double quotes, but then doesn't give us the quote by Ryan where he uses that term. Ugh. Maybe we can get the context that was used. I agree - last I looked the market was anything but thin.

More interesting to me was the speculation about Ryan's future....


"We have not played well," Ryan said. "And everything comes underneath my umbrella. So I'll go through the next month and we'll see exactly where we stand here, but sooner rather than later Mr. Pohlad has got to get a decision out of me. I know he can't go on forever with this setup."
I asked Ryan a handful of questions designed to gauge his willingness to keep the job. He did not provide a definitive answer."

But then Souhan suggests that Ryan is going to be around long term? Ryan's quotes make it sound like he views this as a project (to turn things around) rather than an ongoing job. All I can figure is that Ryan is playing his status close to the vest because he wants to negotiate with the Pohlads or just because he wants to defer to them and let them make the decision?

SweetOne69
08-29-2012, 08:51 AM
While the FA SP market isn't thin, I do agree that the Elite FA Pitcher market is thin.

Winston Smith
08-29-2012, 08:57 AM
The good thing is that Livan and Marquis are back on the market this winter, pitching problems solved.

Trade rumor says Red Sox pitcher Doubrnot has been claimed and speculates it could be part of a Mauer trade.

SpiritofVodkaDave
08-29-2012, 08:59 AM
While the FA SP market isn't thin, I do agree that the Elite FA Pitcher market is thin.

Yeah, that is what he appeared to be saying. Don't plan on us making a run at the elite FA pitchers (Greinke) since there asking price will be astronomical. The last thing this club needs to do is hand out some huge contract to a question mark like Grienke or Sanchez. Sounds like he was just preparing the fans that the Twins won't be in the Greinke sweepstakes.

In regards to Morneau, There is no reason for him to say: Oh yeah we definitely want to trade him! What does that accomplish? They have already stated they would listen to offers on Morneau, they need to make sure they get talent back in any trade.

I still think the Twins best bet on acquiring a front of the rotation starter is by trading Span, and Ryan should be able to make some key signings. Last year he was able to land us Willingham, Doumit and Burton which were all great pick ups. Caroll was what we expected, and Marquis didn't work out. Hopefully he can find us the pitching equivalents of Willingham and Doumit this off-season.

"I don't think either one of us should independently make that call. I wouldn't want to force-feed a coach on a manager. That never works in a clubhouse."- exactly, Ryan and Gardy need to sit down after the season and decide who needs to stay or go. Frankly, I don't want them to fire either Varva or Anderson as I think both are pretty damn solid options, could care less about the rest of the guys, but is a new 1st base coach or bench coach really going to change this team?

The Twins best bet for 2013 is to trade one or two of Span/Willingham/Morneau for some high upside pitching and then to fix the rotation with some shrewd signings, also they will need some of Gibson/Hendriks/Hicks/Arcia/Benson to step up as well.

SpiritofVodkaDave
08-29-2012, 09:03 AM
The good thing is that Livan and Marquis are back on the market this winter, pitching problems solved.

Trade rumor says Red Sox pitcher Doubrnot has been claimed and speculates it could be part of a Mauer trade.

I seriously hope and doubt Mauer isn't traded, and frankly the Red Sox don't have the players needed to pull it off anyways. I do hope that the Twins claimed Doubront though, ideally they could trade away a young OF for him. (Benson?)

Brock Beauchamp
08-29-2012, 09:08 AM
At this point. Greinke cannot be considered an "elite" pitching free agent. The train has already gone off the rails there.

Winston Smith
08-29-2012, 09:16 AM
"Last year he was able to land us Willingham, Doumit and Burton which were all great pick ups." The problem is that these guys just replaced guys that left, Cuddy, Kubel and Nathan. That ended up being about a wash no real gain, but saved a bunch of money and the Pohlads wisely used the savings to buy a few luxury car dealerships!

Mr. Ed
08-29-2012, 09:19 AM
At this point. Greinke cannot be considered an "elite" pitching free agent. The train has already gone off the rails there.


Can they consider him Bargain Bin? Please? :)

Brock Beauchamp
08-29-2012, 09:22 AM
At this point. Greinke cannot be considered an "elite" pitching free agent. The train has already gone off the rails there.

Can they consider him Bargain Bin? Please? :)

One can only hope.

mike wants wins
08-29-2012, 09:40 AM
I should mot have read that article. Little this team does is how i would do it.

SpiritofVodkaDave
08-29-2012, 10:07 AM
At this point. Greinke cannot be considered an "elite" pitching free agent. The train has already gone off the rails there.

Well he will be the top FA on the market, and I would be shocked if he gets less than 95 mil.

SpiritofVodkaDave
08-29-2012, 10:11 AM
"Last year he was able to land us Willingham, Doumit and Burton which were all great pick ups." The problem is that these guys just replaced guys that left, Cuddy, Kubel and Nathan. That ended up being about a wash no real gain, but saved a bunch of money and the Pohlads wisely used the savings to buy a few luxury car dealerships!

Willingham 7 mil. Doumit 3 mil. Burton <1 mil.

Those three combined were had for less than for what it would have taken to retained Cuddyer alone. Also they now have more payroll flexibility in 2013 and 2014 because of those deals.

nicksaviking
08-29-2012, 10:14 AM
"You've going to have to take some risks and you're going to have to look at all markets, not just free agency, but trades and waivers and Rule 5s."

Yeah, because waivers and the Rule V draft is so risky. Or was he referring to his previous paragraph:

Ryan isn't happy with the production of his lineup but recognizes that the organization's foremost need is starting pitching. That's why he would consider re-signing Baker or Pavano.

Because resigning one of them on a 1 year $3-5 million dollar deal is such a risk.

"Even when we had rotations that were darn good, we got them from about every avenue. We have to do the same thing moving forward here."

Which of the "darn good" rotations had free agents in them? The time they gave Kenny Rogers a one year $2 million dollar deal?

Brock Beauchamp
08-29-2012, 10:17 AM
At this point. Greinke cannot be considered an "elite" pitching free agent. The train has already gone off the rails there.

Well he will be the top FA on the market, and I would be shocked if he gets less than 95 mil.

I think that's a pretty fair assessment of where he'll land. Somewhere just north of Lackey money.

Buck Nasty
08-29-2012, 10:21 AM
Souhan gives us "thin" in double quotes, but then doesn't give us the quote by Ryan where he uses that term. Ugh. Maybe we can get the context that was used. I agree - last I looked the market was anything but thin.

More interesting to me was the speculation about Ryan's future....


"We have not played well," Ryan said. "And everything comes underneath my umbrella. So I'll go through the next month and we'll see exactly where we stand here, but sooner rather than later Mr. Pohlad has got to get a decision out of me. I know he can't go on forever with this setup."
I asked Ryan a handful of questions designed to gauge his willingness to keep the job. He did not provide a definitive answer."

But then Souhan suggests that Ryan is going to be around long term? Ryan's quotes make it sound like he views this as a project (to turn things around) rather than an ongoing job. All I can figure is that Ryan is playing his status close to the vest because he wants to negotiate with the Pohlads or just because he wants to defer to them and let them make the decision?

You are the only one to touch on what I think is the biggest piece of the article. What's Ryan's commitment? He walked away from the job a couple years ago because he was burned out. I'm assuming he was talked out of retirement because Bill Smith was failing so miserably. But his title is "Interim". And according to this link, that's his decision - not the Pohlads. Is he all in? If not, there is less accountability IMO.

http://aol.sportingnews.com/mlb/story/2012-08-27/minnesota-twins-gm-terry-ryan-safe-manager-ron-gardenhire

gunnarthor
08-29-2012, 10:24 AM
Keep in mind that the Twins didn't really want to keep Santana around. While most of that was cost, certainly some of it was fear of how a pitcher will age. Santana went to the Mets at 29 - most of the FA are older than that - and had one full season followed by four seasons disrupted by injuries. It's unrealistic to expect that the Twins are going to change their philosophy on big long term contracts now - esp since Morneau and Mauer both got hurt in their long term contracts. I don't think Ryan is going to offer more than a 3 yr deal for anyone.

I suspect Ryan will try and find younger Diamond-type pitchers in smaller trades and trade Span for some players that none of us will be overly excited about. He'll also make some more 1 yr deals to guys like Pavano/Marquis. One name that could happen for us is Dan Haren. He's having an awful year in LA so he might take a one year make good deal again and Target Field could be a good fit for him (although if does do a 1yr deal, I think Oakland is a more realistic option).

Winston Smith
08-29-2012, 10:38 AM
"Last year he was able to land us Willingham, Doumit and Burton which were all great pick ups." The problem is that these guys just replaced guys that left, Cuddy, Kubel and Nathan. That ended up being about a wash no real gain, but saved a bunch of money and the Pohlads wisely used the savings to buy a few luxury car dealerships!

Willingham 7 mil. Doumit 3 mil. Burton <1 mil.

Those three combined were had for less than for what it would have taken to retained Cuddyer alone. Also they now have more payroll flexibility in 2013 and 2014 because of those deals.

Did you read what I said or just react? "...but saved a bunch of money..."

SpiritofVodkaDave
08-29-2012, 11:00 AM
"Last year he was able to land us Willingham, Doumit and Burton which were all great pick ups." The problem is that these guys just replaced guys that left, Cuddy, Kubel and Nathan. That ended up being about a wash no real gain, but saved a bunch of money and the Pohlads wisely used the savings to buy a few luxury car dealerships!



Willingham 7 mil. Doumit 3 mil. Burton <1 mil.

Those three combined were had for less than for what it would have taken to retained Cuddyer alone. Also they now have more payroll flexibility in 2013 and 2014 because of those deals.

Did you read what I said or just react? "...but saved a bunch of money..."

I read what you said. You claimed they took the "saved money" and bought car dealerships or whatever. I pointed out that by finding Willingham/Doumit/burton as cheap options, the Twins now have more payroll flexibility and less holes to fill in 2013 and 2014 then they would have if they just would have resigned Cuddyer or Cuddyer+1 other.

mike wants wins
08-29-2012, 11:11 AM
Let's hope they use that payroll flexibility and make the team substantially better.

Top Gun
08-29-2012, 11:12 AM
CF Denard Span was a late scratch because of soreness in his collarbone. He was scheduled to have an MRI exam Wednesday morning. Span was injured Aug. 12 while trying to make a sliding catch on a soft liner. He missed nine games but had played in four of the Twins' previous five games before Tuesday. "I don't think anybody's all that concerned about it, but he's sore today," GM Terry Ryan said.
(Yahoo! Sports)

Rosterman
08-29-2012, 11:20 AM
The biggest pitching risk for a salary strapped team would be signing Pavano who can't throw right now, and Scott Baker, who doesn't know when he will throw well again. $5-10-15 million better sp-end elsewhere. Ryan is givign himself and the manager and coaches another year...then heads will roll. Be interesting to see how the Mauer things turns out.

Steve Penz
08-29-2012, 11:22 AM
I view much of this as smokescreen/not tipping my hand info. I've seen enough JR over the years to know his pension for dumpster squatting, but I really believe they are not satisfied with what we have to sign a Marcum/Jackson level pitcher (and likely take a long look at Baker's progress). I'll wait it out to get upset.

I have recently said in another thread that I am very concerned that they will do nothing in the off season and I still feel that way. And, I must agree with the above. Didn't it come out right before Blackburn was pulled of the 40-man that he was, "one of our guys next year" ? That may have been said by Gardy but I think it comes from Ryan with a purpose. I am staying calm on this for the moment.

greengoblinrulz
08-29-2012, 11:22 AM
Many of the board crucified me, a couple wks ago, when I predicted that MN WOULD attempt (at least) to re-sign Carl Pavano.
This is how the organization runs....people have got to get used to it. They went bargain basement last yr & it worked out, for the most part. It was NOT free agent spending because of Target Field. MN/Terry Ryan will NEVER be free agent players, not because of money but because they dont believe in giving out the length of contract that you need to be a player.
Get used to the same next year. Its nobody's fault in the organization, Ryan says it, cause they do everything correctly. Its the players fault.....grrrr

birdwatcher
08-29-2012, 11:35 AM
Relax, people. This is the dramatic Jim Souhan we're dealing with, and who likes to stir it up more than him?

If you're a proponent of a housecleaning, you're going to be unsatisfied with any interview you read involving the Twins' ownership and staff.

Elite? Be careful what you wish for. It's a good thing none of us has a vote, because we would probably be guilty of labelling guys like Meche and Silva as "elite" in a thin market. Ryan won't do that, thank God.

I didn't hear Ryan say he considered either Pavano or Baker as the solution. Jim Souhan left you with that impression, not Ryan.

nicksaviking
08-29-2012, 12:15 PM
One name that could happen for us is Dan Haren. He's having an awful year in LA so he might take a one year make good deal again and Target Field could be a good fit for him (although if does do a 1yr deal, I think Oakland is a more realistic option).

I too like the idea of Haren. He may or may not take a 1 year deal, but he still has an option year left which is out of his hands. The Angels may pick it up and keep him if they can't re-sign Greinke, but they also may pick it up with the idea of trading him. If a team like the Twins picks up most of that salary, they might not have to give up too much.

Ultima Ratio
08-29-2012, 12:36 PM
As some here have begun to point out, it's important to realize two things about this interview: What the intended purpose is and who the audience is.

There's also a difference between telling the truth and the whole truth, which is evident in places where Ryan puts on his GM/marketing hat rather than exhaustive truth teller.

Concerning non-player persons (coaches, front office), I think he's being completely honest and forthright.
Concerning players, I think he trying to talk up signed players and maintain bridges with possible targets. -- This is 'not the whole truth part' but necessary in order to not show your hole card (true intentions that would kill any leverage)

In order of importances, I'd say Ryan's audience (with purpose in parentheses) was 1) current players and staff (letting them know he values them and has their back -- hopefully relieving stress and pressure to perform which may be a hindrance to performance) 2) Other GMs (indicating that the team will not be dumping salary/players but will require value players in any trade) 3) Twins fans (who are desperate to know what the heck the plan is, if there is a plan et cetera).

I also believe that the "thin" comment was about elite pitching only. It's not a surprise to me that they won't be signing anyone longer than 4-5 years, and at no more than ~13M/year. Even if 80M were coming off the books, the Twins just don't see those contracts as good investments and while I, like most of you, see the need for elite pitching, I don't believe these contracts are especially beneficial unless you were one pitcher away from a championship.

Riverbrian
08-29-2012, 01:53 PM
As some here have begun to point out, it's important to realize two things about this interview: What the intended purpose is and who the audience is.

There's also a difference between telling the truth and the whole truth, which is evident in places where Ryan puts on his GM/marketing hat rather than exhaustive truth teller.

Concerning non-player persons (coaches, front office), I think he's being completely honest and forthright.
Concerning players, I think he trying to talk up signed players and maintain bridges with possible targets. -- This is 'not the whole truth part' but necessary in order to not show your hole card (true intentions that would kill any leverage)

In order of importances, I'd say Ryan's audience (with purpose in parentheses) was 1) current players and staff (letting them know he values them and has their back -- hopefully relieving stress and pressure to perform which may be a hindrance to performance) 2) Other GMs (indicating that the team will not be dumping salary/players but will require value players in any trade) 3) Twins fans (who are desperate to know what the heck the plan is, if there is a plan et cetera).

I also believe that the "thin" comment was about elite pitching only. It's not a surprise to me that they won't be signing anyone longer than 4-5 years, and at no more than ~13M/year. Even if 80M were coming off the books, the Twins just don't see those contracts as good investments and while I, like most of you, see the need for elite pitching, I don't believe these contracts are especially beneficial unless you were one pitcher away from a championship.

Well said... You are on my smart poster list.

I agree with your last comment on the elite pitching contracts... However in the context of the current Twins... I think they have no choice but to go after one of them. Haren or Shields. The Twins have to take a big run... Overpay for one of them. And then pray for health and success. I'd overpay for one and build a church at the same time.

Ultima Ratio
08-29-2012, 02:15 PM
As some here have begun to point out, it's important to realize two things about this interview: What the intended purpose is and who the audience is.

There's also a difference between telling the truth and the whole truth, which is evident in places where Ryan puts on his GM/marketing hat rather than exhaustive truth teller.

Concerning non-player persons (coaches, front office), I think he's being completely honest and forthright.
Concerning players, I think he trying to talk up signed players and maintain bridges with possible targets. -- This is 'not the whole truth part' but necessary in order to not show your hole card (true intentions that would kill any leverage)

In order of importances, I'd say Ryan's audience (with purpose in parentheses) was 1) current players and staff (letting them know he values them and has their back -- hopefully relieving stress and pressure to perform which may be a hindrance to performance) 2) Other GMs (indicating that the team will not be dumping salary/players but will require value players in any trade) 3) Twins fans (who are desperate to know what the heck the plan is, if there is a plan et cetera).

I also believe that the "thin" comment was about elite pitching only. It's not a surprise to me that they won't be signing anyone longer than 4-5 years, and at no more than ~13M/year. Even if 80M were coming off the books, the Twins just don't see those contracts as good investments and while I, like most of you, see the need for elite pitching, I don't believe these contracts are especially beneficial unless you were one pitcher away from a championship.

Well said... You are on my smart poster list.

I agree with your last comment on the elite pitching contracts... However in the context of the current Twins... I think they have no choice but to go after one of them. Haren or Shields. The Twins have to take a big run... Overpay for one of them. And then pray for health and success. I'd overpay for one and build a church at the same time.

I think they sign two FA SPs, two second tier guys. I also think they deny option/sign Baker. A total of ~20M on the three, perhaps Baker for 3M, the better FA at 10M, and the other FA at 7M/next year.

My starting 5 look like this:
1) FA
2) FA
3) Diamond
4) Hendriks
5) Deduno/DeVries/Walters/Manship

With Baker and Gibson arriving after demonstrating consistent success at AAA -- it may not happen for either.... gulp.

Fire Dan Gladden
08-29-2012, 02:23 PM
You all realize that everything Ryan says needs to be taken with a grain of salt? GM doublespeak abound.

JB_Iowa
08-29-2012, 02:45 PM
GM doublespeak may abound but I will be absolutely shocked if Terry Ryan spends more than $15 million on FA starting pitching and I sincerely doubt that he'll spend that much. I think that Ultimate Ratio may be right about Baker in the $3 million range. Then another in the $8-$10 million range.

More than that? Highly unlikely. I honestly don't think that he is being deceptive on this point. I think he has been pretty honest and pretty consistent about his stance on FA pitching. Keep your expectations pretty darn reasonable.

Top Gun
08-29-2012, 02:55 PM
Bull, that's why I don't like him and no one will trade with him, The whole F.O, is a bunch of crooks.

Riverbrian
08-29-2012, 03:21 PM
As some here have begun to point out, it's important to realize two things about this interview: What the intended purpose is and who the audience is.

There's also a difference between telling the truth and the whole truth, which is evident in places where Ryan puts on his GM/marketing hat rather than exhaustive truth teller.

Concerning non-player persons (coaches, front office), I think he's being completely honest and forthright.
Concerning players, I think he trying to talk up signed players and maintain bridges with possible targets. -- This is 'not the whole truth part' but necessary in order to not show your hole card (true intentions that would kill any leverage)

In order of importances, I'd say Ryan's audience (with purpose in parentheses) was 1) current players and staff (letting them know he values them and has their back -- hopefully relieving stress and pressure to perform which may be a hindrance to performance) 2) Other GMs (indicating that the team will not be dumping salary/players but will require value players in any trade) 3) Twins fans (who are desperate to know what the heck the plan is, if there is a plan et cetera).

I also believe that the "thin" comment was about elite pitching only. It's not a surprise to me that they won't be signing anyone longer than 4-5 years, and at no more than ~13M/year. Even if 80M were coming off the books, the Twins just don't see those contracts as good investments and while I, like most of you, see the need for elite pitching, I don't believe these contracts are especially beneficial unless you were one pitcher away from a championship.

Well said... You are on my smart poster list.

I agree with your last comment on the elite pitching contracts... However in the context of the current Twins... I think they have no choice but to go after one of them. Haren or Shields. The Twins have to take a big run... Overpay for one of them. And then pray for health and success. I'd overpay for one and build a church at the same time.

I think they sign two FA SPs, two second tier guys. I also think they deny option/sign Baker. A total of ~20M on the three, perhaps Baker for 3M, the better FA at 10M, and the other FA at 7M/next year.

My starting 5 look like this:
1) FA
2) FA
3) Diamond
4) Hendriks
5) Deduno/DeVries/Walters/Manship

With Baker and Gibson arriving after demonstrating consistent success at AAA -- it may not happen for either.... gulp.

I'd be happy with:

1. Haren or Shields
2. Diamond
3. Traded for young pitcher with upside (this one will be harder and it doesn't matter who).
4. Hendriks/Deduno/Walters
5. Rule 5 pickup

6. At least two Decent Improved options in AAA or AA. Hopefully another young arm dealt for and Minor League Free Agent.


On the interview itself... Fire Dan Gladden, Birdwatcher, Ultima are correct. It would be absolutely stupid of Terry Ryan to sit down with a reporter and say... We are going to replace Gardenhire at the end of the year... Morneau is gone... I'm telling you now so get ready for it. This organization is trouble and I blame everybody else but me.

If you are ever interviewed and you provide answers like that... You will be paying for it in ways you would have never imagined. You will paying for it dealing with the aftermath and that will involve people that actually matter.

It's also arguable that granting an interview to the press at all is a fairly stupid move because anything said... Truthful, Bent, Safe or Dangerous will be torn apart like it's Bambi captured by a pack of Hyena's and Buzzards. Look no furthur than this thread for proof of that.

ashburyjohn
08-29-2012, 03:23 PM
hopefully relieving stress and pressure to perform which may be a hindrance to performance)

No quarrel with the jist of your message. But this kind of statement always bothers me; do we look forward to sending a roster of such guys into Yankee Stadium for Game 1 of a playoff series?

Ultima Ratio
08-29-2012, 03:27 PM
hopefully relieving stress and pressure to perform which may be a hindrance to performance)

No quarrel with the jist of your message. But this kind of statement always bothers me; do we look forward to sending a roster of such guys into Yankee Stadium for Game 1 of a playoff series?
Let's hope they learn to play loose and with confidence at all times. Easier said than done. Let's start with this and worry about step 97 (going into Yankees stadium) afterwards.

ashburyjohn
08-29-2012, 04:28 PM
hopefully relieving stress and pressure to perform which may be a hindrance to performance)

No quarrel with the jist of your message. But this kind of statement always bothers me; do we look forward to sending a roster of such guys into Yankee Stadium for Game 1 of a playoff series?
Let's hope they learn to play loose and with confidence at all times. Easier said than done. Let's start with this and worry about step 97 (going into Yankees stadium) afterwards.

Let's don't, to the last part. I'm not saying Ryan and Gardenhire should make asses of themselves with the players. But if professional players need their GM to say soothing things publicly, in order that their performance not be hindered, something is wrong. This ought to be 0% of Terry Ryan's focus in talking to the press.

USAFChief
08-29-2012, 05:06 PM
It's also arguable that granting an interview to the press at all is a fairly stupid move because anything said... Truthful, Bent, Safe or Dangerous will be torn apart like it's Bambi captured by a pack of Hyena's and Buzzards. Look no furthur than this thread for proof of that.
Terry Ryan shouldn't grant interviews?

Terry Ryan is the GM of a MLB team. Part of his job is PR, which involves responding to the press, which is one way you generate interest in your product, which is part of how you sell tickets.

Ignoring your customers is rarely a good business strategy.

mike wants wins
08-29-2012, 05:19 PM
It's also arguable that granting an interview to the press at all is a fairly stupid move because anything said... Truthful, Bent, Safe or Dangerous will be torn apart like it's Bambi captured by a pack of Hyena's and Buzzards. Look no furthur than this thread for proof of that.
Terry Ryan shouldn't grant interviews?

Terry Ryan is the GM of a MLB team. Part of his job is PR, which involves responding to the press, which is one way you generate interest in your product, which is part of how you sell tickets.

Ignoring your customers is rarely a good business strategy.

Agree with USAFChief, PR is part of the job.

joeboo_22
08-29-2012, 05:42 PM
I don't think the Twins should just go out and sell Morneau, pay him, hope he hits next year well. Would get more value next year at the deadline anyways.

I'm not opposed to incentive deals for a Pavano or a Baker, but if they sign them for too much, are not 100% and struggle I don't want Ryan to pull his I made the moves bs that I've heard before.

The Twins need to make some coaching changes, I don't care. but somethings need to go.

The Twins need to re-evaluate someone or thing within their medical staff. This Span situation is a joke, they handled Plouffe poorly and Pavano pretty bad as well. And they made many similar moves in similar situations last year.

I do think the Twins need to trade Span and I'd look at trading Willingham if the right offer came around. I was opposed to it, but if you look at the Twins farm system the one area where there is talent is in the OF. IF and its a big IF Parmellee can go out and play RF respectively you can move Revere over to center. Mastronni can play out there, but Hicks looks to be ready or at least close, Arcia, is in AA, Benson who did struggle this year but if you look at his minor league history when healthy he played well, and when not he didn't, so it wouldn't be out of the realm of possibility for him to have a solid year next year and be ready for the majors. 2 other top 10 prospects are minor leaguers as well in Rosario and Morales.

So you could trade those two for pitchers, and I don't think too much would drop off.

Riverbrian
08-29-2012, 08:22 PM
It's also arguable that granting an interview to the press at all is a fairly stupid move because anything said... Truthful, Bent, Safe or Dangerous will be torn apart like it's Bambi captured by a pack of Hyena's and Buzzards. Look no furthur than this thread for proof of that.
Terry Ryan shouldn't grant interviews?

Terry Ryan is the GM of a MLB team. Part of his job is PR, which involves responding to the press, which is one way you generate interest in your product, which is part of how you sell tickets.

Ignoring your customers is rarely a good business strategy.

I know... Just hoping some can see why they get a bunch of worthless **** as quotes.

Kevin Smith is the PR director I believe and he has to make sure that people don't say anything stupid. Rookies are trained and the vets like Ryan and Gardy are experienced at the process. They are not going to slip up. We are not going to know what is happening with Morneau and Span and the future because if he says whats on his mind. He's got a bunch people in his office the next morning.

Terry Ryan, Gardy, Coaches, the players make themselves available for interviews. They need to be somewhat accessable... They know what they can say and what they can't say and they can't tell you what they are completely thinking because they will get ripped apart. Fans upset is one thing but you can't make waves in your own walls.

Terry Ryan provided the safe answers that are as predictable as possible and he still got ripped apart.

Saying PR is part of his job is correct. It is... Just like cleaning up puke in the bathroom is part of the job of a bartender.

Its too late now... Just want to point out that we get **** for quotes that you cant trust because we can't handle the truth.

clutterheart
08-29-2012, 09:01 PM
Ownership will not be happy with this interview
I am sure the moment this hit the newspaper stands twins lost about 100 Season Ticket Holders.
- But it seems they don't care as they already got their money from the Hennepin County Tax Payer.

What a nightmare.

Kobs
08-30-2012, 11:04 PM
I've always loved the fact that the Twins' brass can come out and say the things that they have proven, time and again, to be completely in line with their philosophy, and people are still willing to believe that it is misdirection and duplicity.

If Terry Ryan gave an interview stating that the Twins were considering drafting a low-ceiling control pitcher or a toolsy outfielder, we'd still have folks trying to convince everyone that he's trying to throw other front offices off the scent.