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View Full Version : Twins vs Mariners, 08-28-2012, 7:10pm



Brock Beauchamp
08-28-2012, 03:27 PM
Twins:
Denard Span CF
Ben Revere RF
Joe Mauer C
Josh Willingham LF
Justin Morneau 1B
Ryan Doumit DH
Trevor Plouffe 3B
Jamey Carroll 2B
Pedro Florimon SS
(Scott Diamond P)

Mariners:
Dustin Ackley 2B
Franklin Gutierrez CF
Kyle Seager 3B
Jesus Montero DH
Justin Smoak 1B
Miguel Olivo C
Eric Thames RF
Trayvon Robinson LF
Brendan Ryan SS
(Hisashi Iwakuma P)

snepp
08-28-2012, 03:56 PM
I don't disagree with something Dave Cameron writes very often, but I think he really missed on this one concerning Diamond in his game preview writeup on USSM (http://www.ussmariner.com/2012/08/28/game-130-mariners-at-twins/).


He’s probably a decent #5 starter given his strikes and groundballs approach to the game, but he’s not as good as his 2012 numbers look.

True, he's not as good as his ERA would indicate, but his peripherals are still pretty good, and much better than what you'd expect out of a back of the rotation guy.

Brock Beauchamp
08-28-2012, 04:08 PM
I don't disagree with something Dave Cameron writes very often, but I think he really missed on this one concerning Diamond in his game preview writeup on USSM (http://www.ussmariner.com/2012/08/28/game-130-mariners-at-twins/).


He’s probably a decent #5 starter given his strikes and groundballs approach to the game, but he’s not as good as his 2012 numbers look.

True, he's not as good as his ERA would indicate, but his peripherals are still pretty good, and much better than what you'd expect out of a back of the rotation guy.

I'm tired of hearing "#4/#5 blah blah blah" guy. Diamond is no world-beater but he has a decent chance of being a good mid-rotation starter. Yes, his strikeout figures are low. Yes, the rest of his peripherals are mediocre. But when combined, he's a pretty good pitcher. Maybe not as good as 2012 makes it seem, but he's still a quality guy who shouldn't collapse like Blackburn as long as he can keep the ball down.

Brock Beauchamp
08-28-2012, 04:09 PM
Also, going to the game tonight. I don't think I've ever seen Diamond pitch live.

jokin
08-28-2012, 04:28 PM
Also, going to the game tonight. I don't think I've ever seen Diamond pitch live.

I genuinely want to hear your take afterwards. I've been pulling for the guy all year, it's a great story how the Twins practically fell into a guy ready to step up and be a stopper when all around him is chaos.

Ted666
08-28-2012, 07:09 PM
I'm gonna watch because of Diamond

Brock Beauchamp
08-28-2012, 07:17 PM
Why no Span? Anyone?

JB_Iowa
08-28-2012, 07:21 PM
Well, its always good to start with your lead-off hitter on base .... especially when the opponent didn't score in the top of the 1st!BTW,Revere CFMastroianni RFChange after Brock posted the line-ups. How long will Span's shoulder soreness last?

JB_Iowa
08-28-2012, 07:22 PM
Twitter says "shoulder soreness".And I don't know why my spacing got all messed up in my last post..

JB_Iowa
08-28-2012, 07:23 PM
And bah, humbug on DPs taking that lead-off hitter out.

JB_Iowa
08-28-2012, 07:24 PM
After you have a good time at the game Brock, please come in here and figure out where the spaces and line breaks went.

Alex
08-28-2012, 07:32 PM
Twitter says "shoulder soreness".And I don't know why my spacing got all messed up in my last post..

Now, Twins start the no DL game with him again, though doesn't probably matter with Sept. callups soon.

Top Gun
08-28-2012, 07:34 PM
Denard Span is considered day-to-day with soreness in his right collarbone.

The injury was originally reported as shoulder soreness. Span has been dealing with soreness in both areas for a couple weeks now, though he returned to play four games over the last week. With roster expansion looming, he won't be placed on the DL.


Source: Rhett Bollinger on Twitter (https://twitter.com/RhettBollinger/status/240600239176830976)

JB_Iowa
08-28-2012, 07:47 PM
Hairline fracture in his collar bone that they missed before? Bets anyone?

Ted666
08-28-2012, 08:00 PM
Hairline fracture in his collar bone that they missed before? Bets anyone?
I'll bet you are right

jokin
08-28-2012, 08:03 PM
Hairline fracture in his collar bone that they missed before? Bets anyone?
I'll bet you are right

You mean something simple that an MRI would have picked up a week ago?

Brock Beauchamp
08-28-2012, 08:13 PM
It pisses me off so much that Revere wanted to bunt there. That is stupid baseball.

Ted666
08-28-2012, 08:16 PM
Guys on 2nd & 3rd no outs and they score 1 run. I'm happy. I was sure they wouldn't score at all.

GCTF
08-28-2012, 08:17 PM
Nice grab, Scoop!

GCTF
08-28-2012, 08:26 PM
The offense is fine!

Winston Smith
08-28-2012, 08:38 PM
I can only guess that "shoulder soreness" will turn into "bilateral shoulder weakness".

Kind of looks like the league is catching up with Mr Diamond.

Brock Beauchamp
08-28-2012, 08:39 PM
For lack of a more polite way to put it, this team is un-****ing-watchable.

Brock Beauchamp
08-28-2012, 08:42 PM
I don't think it has as much to do with the league catching up so much as it has to do with him throwing meatballs over the plate last inning. Guys were squaring up on him and drilling the ball.

snepp
08-28-2012, 08:43 PM
For lack of a more polite way to put it, this team is un-****ing-watchable.

Concur.

IdahoPilgrim
08-28-2012, 08:45 PM
For lack of a more polite way to put it, this team is un-****ing-watchable.

I did something I rarely do - I changed the channel. Normally I suffer in silence the whole nine innings, but right now I'm watching the Lynx on NBA-TV. And I don't really like basketball.

Ultima Ratio
08-28-2012, 08:52 PM
Guess we have to move plouffe back to the OF or 1B where throwing accuracy is less important. Come on guy.

glunn
08-28-2012, 08:52 PM
For lack of a more polite way to put it, this team is un-****ing-watchable.

I did something I rarely do - I changed the channel. Normally I suffer in silence the whole nine innings, but right now I'm watching the Lynx on NBA-TV. And I don't really like basketball.

Because of the time difference I need to DVR the games to catch the first few innings, but now I have stopped bothering. Just too painful to watch.

Winston Smith
08-28-2012, 08:53 PM
Dick said they are hitting .307 off Diamond in Aug not including tonight. That may mean more meatballs or scouts are getting better reports on him thus teams are hitting him better. Might also just be a bad month, time will tell.

jokin
08-28-2012, 08:56 PM
I don't think it has as much to do with the league catching up so much as it has to do with him throwing meatballs over the plate last inning. Guys were squaring up on him and drilling the ball.

Yeah, but when the Mariners, of all teams, are squaring up on him and drilling the ball, I think that's another definition of the league catching up with you. At least Diamond just hit the mark for the Twins definition of a QS.

USAFChief
08-28-2012, 09:00 PM
Atta kid Mauersie.

Ultima Ratio
08-28-2012, 09:02 PM
Oh, Joe. Oh, no. No, no, no ,no....

ashburyjohn
08-28-2012, 09:06 PM
it's a great story how the Twins practically fell into a guy ready to step up and be a stopper when all around him is chaos.

He's a Rule 5 draftee. Why isn't the story "great scouting, trading to keep him, and coaching"?

IdahoPilgrim
08-28-2012, 09:07 PM
Well, so much for that. The Lynx won in OT. Now I'm stuck back with this.

Ultima Ratio
08-28-2012, 09:08 PM
I really don't think our offense is this bad. I see this production and recent poor offensive production as a symptom of the bad pitching and a bad record -- and that attitude permeating and infusing the approach and mettle of our guys at the plate. It's just a giant marshmallow of blasť sticking to everything.

ashburyjohn
08-28-2012, 09:16 PM
I really don't think our offense is this bad. I see this production and recent poor offensive production as a symptom of the bad pitching and a bad record -- and that attitude permeating and infusing the approach and mettle of our guys at the plate. It's just a giant marshmallow of blasť sticking to everything.

So losing causes the hitting to go bad? That's it, then! Terry Ryan should go get some wins for the team, while he is acquiring starting pitching, and the hitting will surely follow suit.

IdahoPilgrim
08-28-2012, 09:18 PM
I really don't think our offense is this bad. I see this production and recent poor offensive production as a symptom of the bad pitching and a bad record -- and that attitude permeating and infusing the approach and mettle of our guys at the plate. It's just a giant marshmallow of blasť sticking to everything.

Except that we've had stretches like this earlier in the season too. I agree that, in August when you are this far out, it's easy to lose the intensity, and the Twins have a tendency to do that, but it also feels like we are an engine running on bad gas - sometimes it runs smooth, and sometimes it sputters all too much.

Ultima Ratio
08-28-2012, 09:23 PM
I really don't think our offense is this bad. I see this production and recent poor offensive production as a symptom of the bad pitching and a bad record -- and that attitude permeating and infusing the approach and mettle of our guys at the plate. It's just a giant marshmallow of blasť sticking to everything.

So losing causes the hitting to go bad? That's it, then! Terry Ryan should go get some wins for the team, while he is acquiring starting pitching, and the hitting will surely follow suit.

Yep. Good job, good synopsis.

Ultima Ratio
08-28-2012, 09:27 PM
I really don't think our offense is this bad. I see this production and recent poor offensive production as a symptom of the bad pitching and a bad record -- and that attitude permeating and infusing the approach and mettle of our guys at the plate. It's just a giant marshmallow of blasť sticking to everything.

Except that we've had stretches like this earlier in the season too. I agree that, in August when you are this far out, it's easy to lose the intensity, and the Twins have a tendency to do that, but it also feels like we are an engine running on bad gas - sometimes it runs smooth, and sometimes it sputters all too much.

Indeed. When things are going poorly, it's easy and no surprise that other things begin to go poorly as well. Couple that datum with the time of the season and lack of meaningful games and you can get poorer at bats.

IdahoPilgrim
08-28-2012, 09:29 PM
I wonder if this all comes down to clubhouse chemistry. Who is the clubhouse leader? Who is the one who is going to say, "C'mon, boys, climb on my back and I'll carry you" and inspire the rest of the team.

Ultima Ratio
08-28-2012, 09:34 PM
I wonder if this all comes down to clubhouse chemistry. Who is the clubhouse leader? Who is the one who is going to say, "C'mon, boys, climb on my back and I'll carry you" and inspire the rest of the team.

If there wasn't someone early in the season with that role, it surely doesn't matter now if there isn't. Though, if the team ever hopes to be successful in the future, they surely need a someone with that mentality who can also deliver on the field. It helps all the more if you have more than one of these players and one of them is your ace pitcher.

Bark's Lounge
08-28-2012, 09:42 PM
Geez. A month ago everyone knew that this was going to be a 75 win team at very, very best, but the offense, not perfect by any stretch, seemingly had an upside. Mauer, Willingham, Revere and Plouffe's BA's have each dropped 20 points in that time. You cannot have 50% of your line-up slumping at one time. Synchronized slumping will not win gold metals and as we see now wins very few games. Changes from top to bottom are necessary for this organization to keep the fans interested and involved. I hope the Pohlads understand that they can lose customers and just because we have a pro baseball team in the Twin Cities that sometimes the turn-styles stop clicking.

Riverbrian
08-28-2012, 09:43 PM
It's just a giant marshmallow of blasť sticking to everything.

That sentence needs to quoted... The best description of 95 percent of losing baseball teams.

Can I use it and pretend its mine.

USAFChief
08-28-2012, 09:44 PM
Stop apologizing for Mauer's arm, Roy.

Ultima Ratio
08-28-2012, 09:47 PM
It's just a giant marshmallow of blasť sticking to everything.

That sentence needs to quoted... The best description of 95 percent of losing baseball teams.

Can I use it and pretend its mine.

Go for it RB, though some attribution would be nice. :)

Riverbrian
08-28-2012, 09:49 PM
That'll be tough to do... I'll have to use quotations when typing it and if say it verbally... I'll have to do that quote thing with my fingers.

wavedog
08-28-2012, 09:50 PM
Regarding the offense, I didn't think giving up on the season was the Twins Way. But after the last 2 seasons maybe it is the new Twins Way. Maybe something isn't right in the clubhouse or maybe it's just lack of talent.

Ultima Ratio
08-28-2012, 09:52 PM
Gardy calling out who's up: "Mauer, Willingham, Morneua!" -- Butera yells, "Sounds like runs!"

JB_Iowa
08-28-2012, 09:58 PM
While I don't discount the blase factor, doesn't it have a lot to do with opposing pitching? I haven't gone back and looked at the stats but during the "winning streak" road trip several weeks ao, it seems like they were facing pitching that probably didn't even rise to the level of mediocre. But once they hit the Tampa Bay series, they've faced some pretty good pitching clubs -- Tampa Bay, Seattle, Oakland, Texas, Seattle. And I guess that's why I think this club is more than a couple of pitchers away from being competitive. This line-up doesn't seem to do much against decent (not necessarily stellar, just decent) pitching.

USAFChief
08-28-2012, 10:09 PM
I don't really understand how anyone can watch this team and think it's all about lack of talent.

I grow more and more comfortable in my opinion Gardy needs to go, before next season.

Aimless, drifting, moribund, uninspired...pick your adjective. Losing has become the norm. It's comfortable. Nobody expects much, can't disappoint that way.

J-Dog Dungan
08-28-2012, 10:14 PM
This part of the season feels like the part in Moneyball where Billy Beane gets pissed that the players are enjoying losing and he dumps half the team and they end up improving.

Ultima Ratio
08-28-2012, 10:18 PM
I don't really understand how anyone can watch this team and think it's all about lack of talent.


It's about spirit/spark no matter how silly that sounds. Just looking at this team on paper, they should not be playing so poorly in so many facets of the game. Something else, besides poor talent, is sapping this team's focus, drive, determination et cetera, which I'll just call the mental aspect of the game/wanting and knowing how to win by individual success and team success. In your thread about getting rid of Gardy I said that I'm not up for change just for the sake of change because while we might see an immediate impact from even putting the ball boy at manager for a month, any success due to the change in manager would be fleeting. This is why I agree that I'd like so see changes, but not specific until I now who the replacements will be. Does anyone want Bill Smith back? That would be a change.... for the worse. It's tough to put your finger on real/common cause of the deflated attitude.

Riverbrian
08-28-2012, 10:32 PM
Losing becomes a part of you. Game 129 of a losing season. Nothing to play for... Nothing to be inspired by. "a giant marshmallow of Blaise". Is what I like to say.

Just try being sharp at your job spending another day at the office with the guy next to you paying Tetris on his computer while you've lost your 5th account in two months to the competition. Sure you tried harder the first month. It didn't work... Now you are trying to beat the guy next to you because he has the Tetris record.

If you care about winning... You have to oh well the loses away or you will go postal. Think about loss after loss... You have to put it someplace. That's the stuff the shows up as a "giant marshmallow of Blaise"

Yeah... Facing good pitching doesn't help the situation.

Ultima Ratio
08-28-2012, 11:03 PM
Losing becomes a part of you. Game 129 of a losing season. Nothing to play for... Nothing to be inspired by. "a giant marshmallow of Blaise". Is what I like to say.

Just try being sharp at your job spending another day at the office with the guy next to you paying Tetris on his computer while you've lost your 5th account in two months to the competition. Sure you tried harder the first month. It didn't work... Now you are trying to beat the guy next to you because he has the Tetris record.

If you care about winning... You have to oh well the loses away or you will go postal. Think about loss after loss... You have to put it someplace. That's the stuff the shows up as a "giant marshmallow of Blaise"

Yeah... Facing good pitching doesn't help the situation.

I see you've dropped the "sticking to everything" portion. ;)

Riverbrian
08-28-2012, 11:31 PM
Losing becomes a part of you. Game 129 of a losing season. Nothing to play for... Nothing to be inspired by. "a giant marshmallow of Blaise". Is what I like to say.

Just try being sharp at your job spending another day at the office with the guy next to you paying Tetris on his computer while you've lost your 5th account in two months to the competition. Sure you tried harder the first month. It didn't work... Now you are trying to beat the guy next to you because he has the Tetris record.

If you care about winning... You have to oh well the loses away or you will go postal. Think about loss after loss... You have to put it someplace. That's the stuff the shows up as a "giant marshmallow of Blaise"

Yeah... Facing good pitching doesn't help the situation.

I see you've dropped the "sticking to everything" portion. ;)

I really shouldn't have because it does stick to everything. It's what makes the quote so perfect. I'm glad you let me take it. If I could figure out how to make it a tag line underneath all my posts... I would... Like your man is born free thing.

jokin
08-28-2012, 11:54 PM
it's a great story how the Twins practically fell into a guy ready to step up and be a stopper when all around him is chaos.

He's a Rule 5 draftee. Why isn't the story "great scouting, trading to keep him, and coaching"?

You missed the earlier part of my summation of Diamond. The Twins buried him early in ST to the minor league camp, probably in the organization on a one-year tour of duty. No one, I mean no one, was talking about Diamond knocking at the door last March to being on the verge to becoming the "Ace" of the staff. If anything, the trade was a crap shoot at two equal unknown quantities. If you wish to ascribe some credit, it mostly belongs in the hands of Diamond and possibly a little bit to Cuellar and the scout who pushed to draft him.

jokin
08-29-2012, 12:09 AM
Geez. A month ago everyone knew that this was going to be a 75 win team at very, very best, but the offense, not perfect by any stretch, seemingly had an upside. Mauer, Willingham, Revere and Plouffe's BA's have each dropped 20 points in that time. You cannot have 50% of your line-up slumping at one time. Synchronized slumping will not win gold metals and as we see now wins very few games. Changes from top to bottom are necessary for this organization to keep the fans interested and involved. I hope the Pohlads understand that they can lose customers and just because we have a pro baseball team in the Twin Cities that sometimes the turn-styles stop clicking.

I guess I was one of the few of the "nothing but negative" posters who felt differently and had to deal with the slings and arrows of the "deniers" to the harsh reality of the Twins situation. Posters were giddily talking about Mauer's next batting title, ignoring both the inevitable late-season Mauer slump as well as the cautionary history of how a typical Willingham season plays out in the 2nd half (badly), and Denard Span going down, yet again, on another seemingly innocuous injury. Revere and Plouffe were/are playing through injuries and weren't even STARTERS, let alone "core guys", on this team in Mid-May, so can't hold much blame on their shoulders. Doumit is who he is.

Sadly, this has to be the only baseball club that likely will stand pat on the status quo once again in the off-season, putting off as usual, the tough decisions that must be made about revamping the program and philosophy from top to bottom.

The Twins attendance dipped below 30000 tonight, anyone want to start a pool on the first sub-20000 game at Target Field?

Top Gun
08-29-2012, 01:08 AM
Hitters slump, pitchers do to, sometimes they go on ar oll and win 5 to 10 in a row sometimes they lose 5 to 10 in a row. Baseball is not
played on paper. Players are human too.

Ultima Ratio
08-29-2012, 03:13 PM
Gardy on last night's and recent offensive woes.

http://mlb.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?content_id=24304345&topic_id=&c_id=min&tcid=vpp_copy_24304345&v=3

At 1:44 "they work their tails off"

Kinda feel bad for the guy. Sounds defeated, is defeated. But is this a reflection of the team and the player's attitudes or affecting their attitude.... or both. It's a vicious cycle that needs to stop.