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View Full Version : Twins vs Mariners, 08-27-2012, 7:10pm



Brock Beauchamp
08-27-2012, 04:56 PM
Twins:
Denard Span CF
Ben Revere RF
Joe Mauer C
Josh Willingham DH
Justin Morneau 1B
Ryan Doumit LF
Trevor Plouffe 3B
Jamey Carroll 2B
Pedro Florimon SS
(Liam Hendriks P)

Mariners:
Dustin Ackley 2B
Franklin Gutierrez CF
Kyle Seager 3B
Jesus Montero DH
John Jaso C
Justin Smoak 1B
Eric Thames RF
Trayvon Robinson LF
Brendan Ryan SS
(Felix Hernandez P)

Brock Beauchamp
08-27-2012, 05:27 PM
Mariners offense, home crowd, Hendriks on the mound... Come on, somebody get the guy a win.

Winston Smith
08-27-2012, 05:42 PM
This game is a setup, the Twins can't help but win. Everybody will be betting their houses on the Mariners.

GCTF
08-27-2012, 05:51 PM
Good luck to new Terry Felton.

Winston Smith
08-27-2012, 06:05 PM
Vargas is on waivers it's reported on trade rumor. http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/

If they don't claim him something is really wrong. Good start for next yr.

snepp
08-27-2012, 06:24 PM
Mariners offense

3rd most road runs scored per game in the league.

fwiw

jokin
08-27-2012, 06:38 PM
Vargas is on waivers it's reported on trade rumor. http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/

If they don't claim him something is really wrong. Good start for next yr.

Great point and given the horrific state of the pitching staff and that the Twins have first pick on these waiver options for AL players, it's perplexing that Vargas- and many other waiver-wire dumps with team control going forward and for costs less than the siging some of the upcoming FAs- haven't been snapped up by the handful.

Top Gun
08-27-2012, 06:46 PM
They will pull him back.

snepp
08-27-2012, 07:00 PM
I highly doubt they're simply "dumping" Vargas.

ashburyjohn
08-27-2012, 07:14 PM
Vargas is on waivers it's reported on trade rumor. http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/

If they don't claim him something is really wrong. Good start for next yr.

A lot of his ERA is manufactured in Safeco; his road ERA in his four years for the Mariners is above 4.5 and his 2012 hasn't moved that appreciably He'll likely draw $8M in arbitration, then elect free agency after 2013. Still interested?

USAFChief
08-27-2012, 07:15 PM
Nice throw Joe.

jokin
08-27-2012, 07:19 PM
I highly doubt they're simply "dumping" Vargas.

Except that's what they essentially did in their trade with the Dodgers.

jokin
08-27-2012, 07:19 PM
Vargas is on waivers it's reported on trade rumor. http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/

If they don't claim him something is really wrong. Good start for next yr.

A lot of his ERA is manufactured in Safeco; his road ERA in his four years for the Mariners is above 4.5 and his 2012 hasn't moved that appreciably He'll likely draw $8M in arbitration, then elect free agency after 2013. Still interested?

Given the current state of the Twins staff, yes.

Winston Smith
08-27-2012, 07:35 PM
Even for a yr he'd help you have to start somewhere fixing this rotation. Might cost a prospect but please do something!

USAFChief
08-27-2012, 07:43 PM
I don't see much improvement in stuff or location from Hendriks so far, but he's certainly been luckier at least. I'll take it.

Riverbrian
08-27-2012, 07:56 PM
Nice throw Joe.

Hey Joe... Where you going with that gun... For... An arm?

Riverbrian
08-27-2012, 08:00 PM
Vargas is on waivers it's reported on trade rumor. http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/

If they don't claim him something is really wrong. Good start for next yr.

A lot of his ERA is manufactured in Safeco; his road ERA in his four years for the Mariners is above 4.5 and his 2012 hasn't moved that appreciably He'll likely draw $8M in arbitration, then elect free agency after 2013. Still interested?

Given the current state of the Twins staff, yes.

Me 2... I'm ok with Vargas at 8 Mill.

Riverbrian
08-27-2012, 08:01 PM
It's bad luck to talk about a no hitter...

So I'd like to discuss it.

Riverbrian
08-27-2012, 08:03 PM
That Mauer single came immediately after my no hitter post... See... You don't talk about no nos.

TheLeviathan
08-27-2012, 08:03 PM
Except that's what they essentially did in their trade with the Dodgers.

That comp doesn't make any sense. Unless Vargas recently signed a 265M extension I missed.

glunn
08-27-2012, 08:18 PM
It's bad luck to talk about a no hitter...

So I'd like to discuss it.

Good one, Brian.

Riverbrian
08-27-2012, 08:25 PM
Florimon executes the hit and run. I'm starting to like the kid... I don't care if he ends up hitting .230

Riverbrian
08-27-2012, 08:31 PM
It's bad luck to talk about a no hitter...

So I'd like to discuss it.

Good one, Brian.

It works every time!

Riverbrian
08-27-2012, 08:33 PM
I think some of our farm experts on Twins daily were underselling Florimons defense.

USAFChief
08-27-2012, 08:36 PM
I think some of our farm experts on Twins daily were underselling Florimons defense.

Same kid with 4 errors on one road trip?

Riverbrian
08-27-2012, 08:38 PM
I think some of our farm experts on Twins daily were underselling Florimons defense.

Same kid with 4 errors on one road trip?

Yeah... That kinda blows the bit... Thanks for the cold water.

ashburyjohn
08-27-2012, 08:50 PM
I think some of our farm experts on Twins daily were underselling Florimons defense.

Same kid with 4 errors on one road trip?

Yeah. But the one error I witnessed in person, it was him seemingly getting flustered by the pitcher not covering first, and he threw essentially to where the pitcher had been instead of where he was heading. D'oh! But that kind of thing seems coachable; the vacuum-cleaner action on a sharp grounder far to his right not so much, he's either got the knack or he doesn't. It is annoying, though, that by age 25 he hasn't gotten the kinks out of his game. He's almost not a "kid" anymore. Who is the middle infield coach at Rochester and up with the Twins?

USAFChief
08-27-2012, 08:53 PM
Leadoff triple...three ground balls. Ugh.

Followed, of course, by a leadoff HR. Double ugh.

Riverbrian
08-27-2012, 08:53 PM
I think some of our farm experts on Twins daily were underselling Florimons defense.

Same kid with 4 errors on one road trip?

Yeah. But the one error I witnessed in person, it was him seemingly getting flustered by the pitcher not covering first, and he threw essentially to where the pitcher had been instead of where he was heading. D'oh! But that kind of thing seems coachable; the vacuum-cleaner action on a sharp grounder far to his right not so much, he's either got the knack or he doesn't. It is annoying, though, that by age 25 he hasn't gotten the kinks out of his game. He's almost not a "kid" anymore. Who is the middle infield coach at Rochester and up with the Twins?

I like Middle infielders who can get the ball to 2nd in a variety of ways. Florimon seems to have that plus range.

Riverbrian
08-27-2012, 08:54 PM
Leadoff triple...three ground balls. Ugh.

I'd be upset if King Felix wasn't on the mound.

JB_Iowa
08-27-2012, 08:55 PM
Uh-oh

diehardtwinsfan
08-27-2012, 08:56 PM
nice game for Hendricks today

mikeee
08-27-2012, 08:56 PM
He is the king.

USAFChief
08-27-2012, 08:59 PM
Leadoff triple...three ground balls. Ugh.

I'd be upset if King Felix wasn't on the mound.

I don't care if Sidd Finch is on the mound.

For one thing, Morneau has to be going on contact with one out and Carroll due up next, even with the infield in.

Riverbrian
08-27-2012, 09:07 PM
Leadoff triple...three ground balls. Ugh.

I'd be upset if King Felix wasn't on the mound.

I don't care if Sidd Finch is on the mound.

For one thing, Morneau has to be going on contact with one out and Carroll due up next, even with the infield in.

With one out... Yeah I'd say so.

ashburyjohn
08-27-2012, 09:10 PM
He is the king.

This just in: he is quite good at his craft.

Riverbrian
08-27-2012, 09:19 PM
He is the king.

This just in: he is quite good at his craft.

Seattle is setting up nice for the future. Those 3 young pitchers knocking on the door from the farm plus King Felix... If they can add some hitting... Look out...

ShaeTwins
08-27-2012, 09:24 PM
Twins lose...who cares? Bigger story is that Hendriks was great tonight!

Westgaard66
08-27-2012, 09:25 PM
Wtf is Morneau swinging at the 1st friggin pith for!?!?!?!?

How is mastroiani even possibly going to steal 2 if you hit I the 1st pitch?

That is the type of crap that pisses me off.....

kydoty
08-27-2012, 09:25 PM
And tonight is a fine example of why the W-L record is the most useless stat in sports.

Ultima Ratio
08-27-2012, 09:25 PM
Bleh.

mike wants wins
08-27-2012, 09:32 PM
Great stat for Hendriks. That's the key takeaway for me from this game.

ashburyjohn
08-27-2012, 09:46 PM
And tonight is a fine example of why the W-L record is the most useless stat in sports.

You don't think Hernandez earned his win?

ashburyjohn
08-27-2012, 09:48 PM
Wtf is Morneau swinging at the 1st friggin pith for!?!?!?!?

How is mastroiani even possibly going to steal 2 if you hit I the 1st pitch?

That is the type of crap that pisses me off.....

Well, it's a cat and mouse game. Decoy that you're going to play for one run, hope they lay one in the strike zone for Morneau to whack at. I'm not saying I endorse it, but against the best pitchers you sometimes feel like you have to go against the book because the book hasn't done anything for you in the first eight innings.

Top Gun
08-27-2012, 09:51 PM
Twins are just hopeless.

snepp
08-27-2012, 09:56 PM
At least it was one of the more stomachable losses, if that's even possible.

MightyMpls
08-27-2012, 10:11 PM
At least it was one of the more stomachable losses, if that's even possible.

Not sure if my stomach approved the stranded leadoff triple, or the fact that Roy Smalley proceeded to say, "that was a great at bat" when referring to Plouffe's ground ball right at the second baseman. o_O

COtwin
08-27-2012, 10:12 PM
It looks like Liam can put it together up here.

MightyMpls
08-27-2012, 10:16 PM
Couple things, Hendriks did pitch surprisingly well, but can we please temper the expectations a bit until he at least repeats this kind of effort another time or two. He doesn't have to throw a CG, but at this point, I'll take a QS from him the rest of the year to give me the hope that he is starting to "figure it out" at the MLB-level.

Two, Bremer's over-the-top calls of some rather good, but not great plays, is really starting to bug me. We're going on close to two straight seasons of pathetic baseball and when he loses his **** when Mauer makes a foul catch like he just parted the red sea is rather hard to stomach. Please Dick, I implore you, just a little bit of objective play-by-play? Please?

StormJH1
08-27-2012, 10:41 PM
Anybody else bothered by Gardy's comment that he didn't advance Morneau to 3rd on the Plouffe grounder in the 7th inning because of Justin's "injury/concussion history"? I mean, I get the precaution, but that was a huge run. How many other in-game precautions do they have on Morneau like that?

jokin
08-27-2012, 11:02 PM
Anybody else bothered by Gardy's comment that he didn't advance Morneau to 3rd on the Plouffe grounder in the 7th inning because of Justin's "injury/concussion history"? I mean, I get the precaution, but that was a huge run. How many other in-game precautions do they have on Morneau like that?

To paraphrase Jim Morrison, given Morneau's "fragile eggshell mind", I'm surprised at how agressively Justin has been allowed to run bases this entire year, the play at 2B that knocked him out for two years seemed innocuous enough at the time it happened. If anything, after that triple by Morny (am I the only one that holds my breath a little bit each time he slides into 2B, 3B or home?), that's the time and place where Gardy should have strongly considered inserting Mastro to pinch run, moving Doumit to C and Mauer to 1B.

StormJH1
08-28-2012, 07:18 AM
To paraphrase Jim Morrison, given Morneau's "fragile eggshell mind", I'm surprised at how agressively Justin has been allowed to run bases this entire year, the play at 2B that knocked him out for two years seemed innocuous enough at the time it happened. If anything, after that triple by Morny (am I the only one that holds my breath a little bit each time he slides into 2B, 3B or home?), that's the time and place where Gardy should have strongly considered inserting Mastro to pinch run, moving Doumit to C and Mauer to 1B.

That would have been an option. I'm not AT ALL suggesting that Morneau's issues aren't real or that the Twins shouldn't be careful with him, I'm simply pointing out that this was a surprising revelation to me. On the one hand, we see Morneau playing almost every game and doing well in the field. We're told he's symptom-free and the team is so optimistic about him that they apparently didn't have much interest in moving him off a non-competing team at the deadline, or making a Los Angeles Dodgers type deal. Presumably this is because the Twins see him as a big part of their future.

But then we learn that there are also certain plays that Morneau can NEVER do as a baseball player. For example, Justin Morneau can never try to advance to 3rd on a groundball to the right side of the infield, even in a 0-0 game against a stud pitcher. And since Morneau will never be "cured" of his brain trauma, it's safe to assume Morneau will never be able to do that again. I just took it as a subtle reminder that Morneau is not viewed as a fully healthy ballplayer like anyone else, and you have to keep that in mind (along with his age and other injuries) going forward.

kydoty
08-28-2012, 07:46 AM
And tonight is a fine example of why the W-L record is the most useless stat in sports.

You don't think Hernandez earned his win?

Do you really think I was talking about Hernandez with my post?

snepp
08-28-2012, 08:09 AM
Do you really think I was talking about Hernandez with my post?

Liam just isn't a winner like Gray.

Steve Penz
08-28-2012, 08:37 AM
Wtf is Morneau swinging at the 1st friggin pith for!?!?!?!?

How is mastroiani even possibly going to steal 2 if you hit I the 1st pitch?



It is hard to argue with that. That was bad fundamental baseball.

CDog
08-28-2012, 09:52 AM
Anybody else bothered by Gardy's comment that he didn't advance Morneau to 3rd on the Plouffe grounder in the 7th inning because of Justin's "injury/concussion history"? I mean, I get the precaution, but that was a huge run. How many other in-game precautions do they have on Morneau like that?

I didn't see the post-game, but yes I would think it's kind of out of the blue to be hearing about Morneau's concussion in relation to a baserunning situation since we haven't much (ever?) all year. BUT...Morneau led off the 7th with a triple, so the situation was a play at the plate, not advancing to 3rd.

StormJH1
08-28-2012, 12:59 PM
Anybody else bothered by Gardy's comment that he didn't advance Morneau to 3rd on the Plouffe grounder in the 7th inning because of Justin's "injury/concussion history"? I mean, I get the precaution, but that was a huge run. How many other in-game precautions do they have on Morneau like that?

I didn't see the post-game, but yes I would think it's kind of out of the blue to be hearing about Morneau's concussion in relation to a baserunning situation since we haven't much (ever?) all year. BUT...Morneau led off the 7th with a triple, so the situation was a play at the plate, not advancing to 3rd.

My bad - I was going off the quote as I didn't actually see that portion of the game (but might watch it later on MLB At-Bat app recap). The fact that he could have scored, however, would have made it even more concerning. Granted, Morneau isn't all that fast. But I remember going to a game in the Dome around '07 or '08 where Morneau got sent home and basically went out of his way to murder Baltimore's backup catcher on the play. Remembered thinking it was kind of a d-bag move. And later that same season, he tried the same thing against a much larger catcher (I believe it was Miguel Olivo), and Olivo CLOBBERED him. These were both prior to the 2010 concussion, but obviously after his 2005 concussion when he got hit in the head in Seattle. Goes to show how much times have changed.

But yes, as the earlier poster said, if there's a critical situation where Morneau is on 3rd late in a close game and you're going to be too fearful of sending him for ANY type of close game, I'm sorry, but he needs to be substituted then. He should be treated pretty much how Gardy handled Thome anytime he got a double late in a game - baserunner subbed in right away.

CDog
08-28-2012, 01:21 PM
My bad - I was going off the quote as I didn't actually see that portion of the game (but might watch it later on MLB At-Bat app recap). The fact that he could have scored, however, would have made it even more concerning. Granted, Morneau isn't all that fast. But I remember going to a game in the Dome around '07 or '08 where Morneau got sent home and basically went out of his way to murder Baltimore's backup catcher on the play. Remembered thinking it was kind of a d-bag move. And later that same season, he tried the same thing against a much larger catcher (I believe it was Miguel Olivo), and Olivo CLOBBERED him. These were both prior to the 2010 concussion, but obviously after his 2005 concussion when he got hit in the head in Seattle. Goes to show how much times have changed.

But yes, as the earlier poster said, if there's a critical situation where Morneau is on 3rd late in a close game and you're going to be too fearful of sending him for ANY type of close game, I'm sorry, but he needs to be substituted then. He should be treated pretty much how Gardy handled Thome anytime he got a double late in a game - baserunner subbed in right away.

Yeah, I don't think it changes the conclusion much that it was a weird thing for Gardy to say all of a sudden. I guess there's more collision potential sending home rather than to third. But the reward is obviously a tad higher in getting a guy to the plate rather than third, too (see how smart I am to have figured that out!). On the particular play, he was dead meat had he gone (infield in, hard hit right to 2B, even though it was bobbled he still would have been out by a lot, probably). But that's a place where the Twins have used the contact play a lot in the past, so there definitely SEEMS like there was some reason not to have him going. Really kinda sucks to think it would be concussion related at this point.