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View Full Version : The Denard Span Non-DL Watch



DPJ
08-21-2012, 07:54 AM
Misses his 7th straight game Monday and won't play Tuesday since he's getting another MRI.

Just amazes me how the team just continues to burn active roster spots.

birdwatcher
08-21-2012, 08:14 AM
It is amazing. What's even more amazing to me is that our big media pals have not asked the hard questions about this ridiculous pattern. Are they afraid? Under orders to not press? Lazy? Making a calculated decision to protect their "access"?

Has anyone ever read something from this FO that addresses this?

chuchadoro
08-21-2012, 08:39 AM
You would think the Twins wouldn't be so cavalier with their bench spots, given they have a useless catcher who is one of the worst hitters in the history of baseball rotting there 4-5 days a week. It's tough to make any late inning moves when the bench consists of Butera, Casilla and my grandmother.

TheLeviathan
08-21-2012, 08:49 AM
Apologists? I'd really like to hear the people who bristle at every criticism try and defend this. Not only are we already at a week and still performing tests - we happen to have a kid in AAA that is destroying the pitching down there.

I just can't wrap my head around this.

Gernzy
08-21-2012, 08:52 AM
It is amazing. What's even more amazing to me is that our big media pals have not asked the hard questions about this ridiculous pattern. Are they afraid? Under orders to not press? Lazy? Making a calculated decision to protect their "access"?

Has anyone ever read something from this FO that addresses this?

This is probably why. The press needs to be careful what the say if they want to stay on the good side of the team

As for why we keep doing this I really don't know. Thankfully if he does have to go on the DL it doesn't have to be for a full 15 days, but it's still a huge waste of a bench spot.

DPJ
08-21-2012, 08:59 AM
It is amazing. What's even more amazing to me is that our big media pals have not asked the hard questions about this ridiculous pattern. Are they afraid? Under orders to not press? Lazy? Making a calculated decision to protect their "access"?

Has anyone ever read something from this FO that addresses this?

The beat writers and reporters for the Twins are a bunch of pathetic suck-up yes men. Too concerned about having a good working relationship with the team then actually questioning the way they do business.

Top Gun
08-21-2012, 09:08 AM
They probably still lookin to trade him, down playin the injury in hopes of a quick trade before Sept 1.

Winston Smith
08-21-2012, 09:08 AM
Wasn't Terry Ryan going to fix this? Another great job by the front office. Same guys different chairs is all.

DPJ
08-21-2012, 09:09 AM
They probably still lookin to trade him, down playin the injury in hopes of a quick trade before Sept 1.

I doubt Span's contract would pass through waivers.

gunnarthor
08-21-2012, 09:17 AM
My guess is that they don't want him on the DL b/c they want to trade him in the offseason and want to say that he had a healthy year after getting dinged up in 2011. And frankly, it's not that uncommon for a team to keep let a banged up player sit for a week so they don't have to lose him for another week. Most teams do it.

birdwatcher
08-21-2012, 09:17 AM
There you gp again, DPJ, mincing your words...

TheLeviathan
08-21-2012, 09:23 AM
My guess is that they don't want him on the DL b/c they want to trade him in the offseason and want to say that he had a healthy year after getting dinged up in 2011. And frankly, it's not that uncommon for a team to keep let a banged up player sit for a week so they don't have to lose him for another week. Most teams do it.

Yeah, it would crush us to lose him for an extra week. We may not finish ahead of the Royals!

gunnarthor
08-21-2012, 09:25 AM
My guess is that they don't want him on the DL b/c they want to trade him in the offseason and want to say that he had a healthy year after getting dinged up in 2011. And frankly, it's not that uncommon for a team to keep let a banged up player sit for a week so they don't have to lose him for another week. Most teams do it.

Yeah, it would crush us to lose him for an extra week. We may not finish ahead of the Royals!

I suspect we care more about keeping his trade value high than catching the Royals ....:banghead:

DPJ
08-21-2012, 09:25 AM
My guess is that they don't want him on the DL b/c they want to trade him in the offseason and want to say that he had a healthy year after getting dinged up in 2011. And frankly, it's not that uncommon for a team to keep let a banged up player sit for a week so they don't have to lose him for another week. Most teams do it.

Which I could maybe listen too if the Twins didn't have an extensive history burning active roster spots when guys are "day to day" Plus I don't think a quick 15 days on the DL is gonna hurt Span's value in the offseason. Hell every team can see that he missed a good chunk of games in Aug so what's it gonna hurt just sending him to the DL for a quick 15.

stringer bell
08-21-2012, 09:27 AM
I thought they should have DLed Span right away. That said, what does it matter? I feel the same way about Butera. If the Twins were in the race I would be breathing fire about wasting a spot on a third catcher and throwing away bench moves because they won't DL the regular CF. I do want to see Parmelee up when he is raking, but if he is just sitting on the bench, it's better for him to be in Rochester.

luckylager
08-21-2012, 09:29 AM
At this point in the season, who cares? Rochester is fighting for a playoff spot. Mastroianni is getting a good look filling Span's spot.

Top Gun
08-21-2012, 09:38 AM
The F O is pretty stupid. They are probably trying to push Gardy out the door too!

DPJ
08-21-2012, 09:44 AM
The F O is pretty stupid. They are probably trying to push Gardy out the door too!

Nothing stupid about that!!

mike wants wins
08-21-2012, 09:55 AM
It matters because it is a recurrance of an ongoing problem, that they said they would fix this year.

jctwins
08-21-2012, 10:14 AM
It is amazing. What's even more amazing to me is that our big media pals have not asked the hard questions about this ridiculous pattern. Are they afraid? Under orders to not press? Lazy? Making a calculated decision to protect their "access"?

Has anyone ever read something from this FO that addresses this?

The beat writers and reporters for the Twins are a bunch of pathetic suck-up yes men. Too concerned about having a good working relationship with the team then actually questioning the way they do business.

Common and Rosey went after Gardy, Mauer and Morneau after Sunday's post game interviews. How ridiculous it is that they keep talking about what a good team they could be, etc. Common is at arms' length, but Rosen is on the field before BP often. I was surprised by that.

Mauerzy4Prez
08-21-2012, 10:41 AM
It is amazing. What's even more amazing to me is that our big media pals have not asked the hard questions about this ridiculous pattern. Are they afraid? Under orders to not press? Lazy? Making a calculated decision to protect their "access"?

Has anyone ever read something from this FO that addresses this?

The beat writers and reporters for the Twins are a bunch of pathetic suck-up yes men. Too concerned about having a good working relationship with the team then actually questioning the way they do business.

Common and Rosey went after Gardy, Mauer and Morneau after Sunday's post game interviews. How ridiculous it is that they keep talking about what a good team they could be, etc. Common is at arms' length, but Rosen is on the field before BP often. I was surprised by that.

Common is a bit. Everything he says is a bit, that is what he does... He has no real sports knowledge on anything other than golf. He is there to entertain you, when the going is good, he is positive, when the going is bad, he gets negative. DPJ saying all the beat writers and reporters are a bunch of suck up yes men is bad, but I certainly don't think Common being negative has ANYTHING to do with a legitimate opinion about the team.

Seth Stohs
08-21-2012, 11:26 AM
And frankly, it's not that uncommon for a team to keep let a banged up player sit for a week so they don't have to lose him for another week. Most teams do it.

I have no problem with this. If you know that he'll be back in 7 days or less, of course you don't DL him. But once it gets to that 7 days and there still is no certainty on when he'll return, DL only makes sense.

jokin
08-21-2012, 01:26 PM
And frankly, it's not that uncommon for a team to keep let a banged up player sit for a week so they don't have to lose him for another week. Most teams do it.

I have no problem with this. If you know that he'll be back in 7 days or less, of course you don't DL him. But once it gets to that 7 days and there still is no certainty on when he'll return, DL only makes sense.

This just in from the Keystone Kops on Day 9 of the Denard Death Watch:

http://www.startribune.com/sports/twins/166844536.html

"Span had an magnetic resonance imaging exam of his neck on Monday, which came back negative. On Tuesday he will have an MRI of his right clavicle.

Span injured himself Aug. 12 trying to make a falling catch in center field. He thought he would be ready in a few days, but continues to feel discomfort.
The Twins still won't say he's a candidate for the disabled list, but they ordered the exams to make sure nothing more serious is bothering him."

TR usually breaks out Antony for the really ridiculous PR fluff that you just can't make up:

"Basically we're doing that just to make sure we're not missing anything," Twins assistant general manager Rob Antony said. "We want to rule everything out and give him peace of mind."

snepp
08-21-2012, 01:36 PM
http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTVUsrF__WyGjN8sdyBkFoWl__1qUpUl hXziIdSaHUvu9UqHMhZg1qK_LGB

StormJH1
08-21-2012, 01:40 PM
What makes this approach such a joke is that it's not even like we're in a wild card race or anything where missing out on one or two healthy or close-to-healthy games of Span is THAT big of a deal. Isn't it a bigger to have another bench player for the 15 days, and to make sure that you give Span all the time he needs to get healthy? There's no upside to waiting like this, and it creates stupid situations like the one last year where Mauer had to play right field.

Mauerzy4Prez
08-21-2012, 03:22 PM
The way this whole medical staff and front office handles injured players makes me think of the South Park episode where they go through the history of the Morman religion and the entire time there are guys singing "dumb da dumb dumb dumb dumb dumb, dumb da dumb dumb dumb dumb dumb, da dumb dumb dumb dumb dummmmmmmmmmmmmmb"

diehardtwinsfan
08-21-2012, 03:24 PM
in 2 months they will find a torn labrum... they'll rest and rehab it and realize in spring training that it needs surgery anyways.

ofx1
08-21-2012, 06:06 PM
More of the Twins MO...

1) Why carry 3 catchers? Just in case.
2) Why carry 13 pitchers? Just in case.
3) Why not put Span on the DL so you can get one goddamned bat on the bench, just in case? Just in case.

It's annoying, and embarrassing.

Seth Stohs
08-21-2012, 07:26 PM
I had the following Twitter exchange with Rhett Bollinger, Twins beat writer for mlb.com:




Seth Stohs (https://twitter.com/SethTweets/status/238060501106573313?uid=61909877&iid=am-91760041513455941873922505&nid=27+225) @SethTweets (https://twitter.com/SethTweets/status/238060501106573313?uid=61909877&iid=am-91760041513455941873922505&nid=27+224)
21 Aug (https://twitter.com/SethTweets/status/238060501106573313?uid=61909877&iid=am-91760041513455941873922505&nid=27+227)





@RhettBollinger (http://twitter.com/RhettBollinger?uid=61909877&iid=am-91760041513455941873922505&nid=27+231) - Has anyone asked why Span has not been put on the DL yet? Is that a bad question to ask?














https://si0.twimg.com/profile_images/1295032005/picture_reasonably_small.jpg (https://twitter.com/RhettBollinger/status/238065392298360833?uid=61909877&iid=am-91760041513455941873922505&nid=27+232)

Rhett Bollinger (https://twitter.com/RhettBollinger/status/238065392298360833?uid=61909877&iid=am-91760041513455941873922505&nid=27+234)


@RhettBollinger (https://twitter.com/RhettBollinger/status/238065392298360833?uid=61909877&iid=am-91760041513455941873922505&nid=27+233)





@SethTweets (http://twitter.com/SethTweets?uid=61909877&iid=am-91760041513455941873922505&nid=27+240) It's been asked. It's just been dragging on. But they feel like they can wait with Carson on roster.




To be honest, I'm good with that answer. It's not like the team uses pinch hitters often, and there is depth enough.

jokin
08-21-2012, 07:41 PM
I had the following Twitter exchange with Rhett Bollinger, Twins beat writer for mlb.com:




Seth Stohs (https://twitter.com/SethTweets/status/238060501106573313?uid=61909877&iid=am-91760041513455941873922505&nid=27+225) @SethTweets (https://twitter.com/SethTweets/status/238060501106573313?uid=61909877&iid=am-91760041513455941873922505&nid=27+224)
21 Aug (https://twitter.com/SethTweets/status/238060501106573313?uid=61909877&iid=am-91760041513455941873922505&nid=27+227)





@RhettBollinger (http://twitter.com/RhettBollinger?uid=61909877&iid=am-91760041513455941873922505&nid=27+231) - Has anyone asked why Span has not been put on the DL yet? Is that a bad question to ask?














https://si0.twimg.com/profile_images/1295032005/picture_reasonably_small.jpg (https://twitter.com/RhettBollinger/status/238065392298360833?uid=61909877&iid=am-91760041513455941873922505&nid=27+232)

Rhett Bollinger (https://twitter.com/RhettBollinger/status/238065392298360833?uid=61909877&iid=am-91760041513455941873922505&nid=27+234)


@RhettBollinger (https://twitter.com/RhettBollinger/status/238065392298360833?uid=61909877&iid=am-91760041513455941873922505&nid=27+233)





@SethTweets (http://twitter.com/SethTweets?uid=61909877&iid=am-91760041513455941873922505&nid=27+240) It's been asked. It's just been dragging on. But they feel like they can wait with Carson on roster.




To be honest, I'm good with that answer. It's not like the team uses pinch hitters often, and there is depth enough.

Depth enough? They played 2 games with Butera and Casilla as their bench depth. Begging the question, but they don't use them because they don't have them.

Highabove
08-21-2012, 07:42 PM
And frankly, it's not that uncommon for a team to keep let a banged up player sit for a week so they don't have to lose him for another week. Most teams do it.

I have no problem with this. If you know that he'll be back in 7 days or less, of course you don't DL him. But once it gets to that 7 days and there still is no certainty on when he'll return, DL only makes sense.

This just in from the Keystone Kops on Day 9 of the Denard Death Watch:

http://www.startribune.com/sports/twins/166844536.html

"Span had an magnetic resonance imaging exam of his neck on Monday, which came back negative. On Tuesday he will have an MRI of his right clavicle.

Span injured himself Aug. 12 trying to make a falling catch in center field. He thought he would be ready in a few days, but continues to feel discomfort.
The Twins still won't say he's a candidate for the disabled list, but they ordered the exams to make sure nothing more serious is bothering him."

TR usually breaks out Antony for the really ridiculous PR fluff that you just can't make up:

"Basically we're doing that just to make sure we're not missing anything," Twins assistant general manager Rob Antony said. "We want to rule everything out and give him peace of mind."




The Front Office told Baker to get a second opinion, just for his peace of mind.

IdahoPilgrim
08-21-2012, 07:53 PM
Now we add this to the mix: Span didn't do his MRI today - he's claustrophobic.

powrwrap
08-21-2012, 07:56 PM
Didn't we just see this act with Trevor Plouffe? He's got a sore thumb, he's still got a sore thumb, he's still got it, yep still sore. After 8 days of this they retroactively put him on the DL. I sense a pattern here...

jokin
08-21-2012, 08:03 PM
Didn't we just see this act with Trevor Plouffe? He's got a sore thumb, he's still got a sore thumb, he's still got it, yep still sore. After 8 days of this they retroactively put him on the DL. I sense a pattern here...

Terry Ryan has assured us since coming back on board last November that he is doing a comprehensive review of the situation and will verify if your wildly speculative assertion has any merit whatsoever...when he gets around to it.

IdahoPilgrim
08-21-2012, 08:04 PM
Didn't we just see this act with Trevor Plouffe? He's got a sore thumb, he's still got a sore thumb, he's still got it, yep still sore. After 8 days of this they retroactively put him on the DL. I sense a pattern here...

I don't mind the delay so much - you can go up to 10 days retroactive, and the only thing we're losing is a bench spot, which we don't need as we're not playing for anything.

What get's disturbing is not having accurate diagnosis in the first place, or treatment plans that don't show result. Are we any different than other MLB clubs in that area? I don't know. But it's a legitimate question.

Top Gun
08-21-2012, 08:09 PM
That's how mangement works, they tie Gardy hands in hope that he quits, because they don't have the balls to fire him.

Brock Beauchamp
08-21-2012, 08:13 PM
Didn't we just see this act with Trevor Plouffe? He's got a sore thumb, he's still got a sore thumb, he's still got it, yep still sore. After 8 days of this they retroactively put him on the DL. I sense a pattern here...

Terry Ryan has assured us since coming back on board last November that he is doing a comprehensive review of the situation and will verify if your wildly speculative assertion has any merit whatsoever...when he gets around to it.

We all know you have TR on speed dial and intricate knowledge of the inner workings of the front office.

Nobody here has any idea what Ryan is thinking or what he's going to do with the medical staff. It doesn't make sense to fire people with less than two months left in the season. After all, you still need doctors to treat players if the season is happening.

jokin
08-21-2012, 08:20 PM
Didn't we just see this act with Trevor Plouffe? He's got a sore thumb, he's still got a sore thumb, he's still got it, yep still sore. After 8 days of this they retroactively put him on the DL. I sense a pattern here...

Terry Ryan has assured us since coming back on board last November that he is doing a comprehensive review of the situation and will verify if your wildly speculative assertion has any merit whatsoever...when he gets around to it.

We all know you have TR on speed dial and intricate knowledge of the inner workings of the front office.

Nobody here has any idea what Ryan is thinking or what he's going to do with the medical staff. It doesn't make sense to fire people with less than two months left in the season. After all, you still need doctors to treat players if the season is happening.

Nothing in my comment connotes that I have Ryan on speed dial. I did reference his very comments from 9 months ago upon resuming his role as GM. I have not advocated firing people with less than two months left in the season, but you would have to admit that this is a systemic problem that goes back quite a while and now borders on tragi-comic. To pretend that this doesn't call for a greater sense of urgency to reassure the players and fans alike that they are fully focused on getting a better handle on this issue is burying one's head in the sand.

deanlambrecht
08-21-2012, 08:37 PM
At this point in the season, who cares? Rochester is fighting for a playoff spot. Mastroianni is getting a good look filling Span's spot.

While I, too, question the medical staff of this team (see the Pavano article), I think luckylager's post is about right.

John Bonnes
08-21-2012, 08:40 PM
At this point in the season, who cares? Rochester is fighting for a playoff spot. Mastroianni is getting a good look filling Span's spot.

While I, too, question the medical staff of this team (see the Pavano article), I think luckylager's post is about right.

So essentially the answer is: "We just don't care that much."

jokin
08-21-2012, 09:09 PM
At this point in the season, who cares? Rochester is fighting for a playoff spot. Mastroianni is getting a good look filling Span's spot.

While I, too, question the medical staff of this team (see the Pavano article), I think luckylager's post is about right.

So essentially the answer is: "We just don't care that much."

....Which is an early indicator of soon-empty stadiums, bags over the heads of the dwindling actual attendees, falling TV ratings and ultimately long-term rearrangement of the professional team pecking order in a given market.

crarko
08-21-2012, 09:23 PM
At this point in the season, who cares? Rochester is fighting for a playoff spot. Mastroianni is getting a good look filling Span's spot.

While I, too, question the medical staff of this team (see the Pavano article), I think luckylager's post is about right.

So essentially the answer is: "We just don't care that much."

....Which is an early indicator of soon-empty stadiums, bags over the heads of the dwindling actual attendees, falling TV ratings and ultimately long-term rearrangement of the professional team pecking order in a given market.

Followed by the asteroid impact and the end of all life on Earth.

jokin
08-21-2012, 09:26 PM
At this point in the season, who cares? Rochester is fighting for a playoff spot. Mastroianni is getting a good look filling Span's spot.

While I, too, question the medical staff of this team (see the Pavano article), I think luckylager's post is about right.

So essentially the answer is: "We just don't care that much."

....Which is an early indicator of soon-empty stadiums, bags over the heads of the dwindling actual attendees, falling TV ratings and ultimately long-term rearrangement of the professional team pecking order in a given market.

Followed by the asteroid impact and the end of all life on Earth.

Someone apparently wasn't around when the asteroid hit the Twins club in 70's.... and again in the 80's........followed by the 90's......and the early 2000s......Scorched Earth time, empty stadiums, 7 year battle to contract the team that ended up in court- which was led by the owner.

greengoblinrulz
08-21-2012, 11:00 PM
Lot of the problem with DLing Span is who do you call up.
MN has made it clear they will not call up Parmelle, Arcia, Benson right now as they are in the playoff hunt :roll:and they need Escobar to play 3B....who else is there. They cannot help the MLB team since it would hurt their minot league teams too much!!!

joeboo_22
08-22-2012, 12:41 AM
If your argument is there isn't anyone worth calling up and playing with 24 is just as good as playing with 25 even thought I should say 23 is just as good as 24 because Butera is 1 of the 25, and he plays about as much as he deserves to (not much), you have a losing argument.

It's a bad trend. Look at it over the year. It started with Baker in the off season/spring training. And then its been Mourneau, Walters, Pavano, Plouffe, as well as others.

Brock Beauchamp
08-22-2012, 07:01 AM
Nothing in my comment connotes that I have Ryan on speed dial. I did reference his very comments from 9 months ago upon resuming his role as GM. I have not advocated firing people with less than two months left in the season, but you would have to admit that this is a systemic problem that goes back quite a while and now borders on tragi-comic. To pretend that this doesn't call for a greater sense of urgency to reassure the players and fans alike that they are fully focused on getting a better handle on this issue is burying one's head in the sand.

I've long believed that the medical staff needed an overhaul. The problem is that Ryan wasn't GM during that time...

I'd love to see the medical staff get the boot. But when you're new to the GM spot and have about 5,000 other things to worry about (like assembling a roster and determining strengthes/weaknesses of the org) before the season starts, it's impossible to do everything right off the bat. If I was in JR's spot, I'd also want some time to analyze what is wrong and where changes need to be made. All of that takes time and it's not as if Ryan has the time to sit down in the middle of the season, figure out who needs to go, interview capable candidates, and make a change. He's busy running a team, getting ready for the draft, making roster changes, etc. Now that the season is near an end, he might want to keep the current staff on just so he isn't rushed finding a new hire to replace them. After all, players still need these doctors on a daily basis. If you fire a guy, you better have a new guy on staff the next day. After this disaster, do you really want a decision like that to be rushed?

None of us know what is happening behind the scenes and while it may have filled an emotional need to see the entire staff fired last January, it wouldn't have been the intelligent thing to do.

Like most here, I'm all for sweeping changes to be made. The only difference is that I have a reasonable timeline in mind to do it. I'd love for it to have been done immediately but that probably wouldn't have been a good idea. These things take time. If big changes aren't made before Spring Training starts next season, I'll be the first in line complaining.

Top Gun
08-22-2012, 08:19 AM
He had all season and did nottin. A couple more season of nottin is still nottin. Maybe he should find more help to do nottin.

Brock Beauchamp
08-22-2012, 08:24 AM
He had all season and did nottin. A couple more season of nottin is still nottin. Maybe he should find more help to do nottin.

He was busy running a Major League Baseball franchise. I doubt he has a ton of time to interview medical staff and determine their worth while preparing for the draft, making roster moves, trying to move guys at the deadline, and doing any number of other things required by a general manager, especially one of an awful team that is ping-ponging players up and down the system.

jctwins
08-22-2012, 08:47 AM
He had all season and did nottin. A couple more season of nottin is still nottin. Maybe he should find more help to do nottin.

He was busy running a Major League Baseball franchise. I doubt he has a ton of time to interview medical staff and determine their worth while preparing for the draft, making roster moves, trying to move guys at the deadline, and doing any number of other things required by a general manager, especially one of an awful team that is ping-ponging players up and down the system.

I agree with everything you're saying. With that said, you'd think they could spend $100k to hire a consultant just to do an analysis and determine a course of action. The person would need medical expertise anyway.

Brock Beauchamp
08-22-2012, 08:53 AM
I agree with everything you're saying. With that said, you'd think they could spend $100k to hire a consultant just to do an analysis and determine a course of action. The person would need medical expertise anyway.

I'd be surprised if it hasn't been done already and would consider it a failure on the part of JR and the front office. At the very least, they should have a guy "looking over the books", so to speak, to see where this franchise has gone wrong (assuming they've gone wrong at all).

Top Gun
08-22-2012, 08:58 AM
The Pohlads can't be happy, I'm sure they are hearing it. The GM has committees of people helping him, it shouldn't take him long at all to decide what to do. It's time to wake up good old boy.

Brock Beauchamp
08-22-2012, 09:01 AM
The Pohlads can't be happy, I'm sure they are hearing it. The GM has committees of people helping him, it shouldn't take him long at all to decide what to do. It's time to wake up good old boy.

I don't think I've ever seen an indication that the GM has a committee of medical experts available to give him feedback on the status of the ballclub.

Oh, wait, he does... It's called the "Twins Medical Staff", the very people so many want to see fired. If you want someone to fire their consultants, do you honestly expect them to have a second team of consultants to consult on the consultants' performance already on hand?

Top Gun
08-22-2012, 09:22 AM
Don't try to be funny. It isn't that hard to find someone to look in to it, or to find someone to replace Span. This board and a fantasy teams has more brains than him. You make moves quickly or you end up in last place and the teams down the toliet for years to come.

Brock Beauchamp
08-22-2012, 09:33 AM
Don't try to be funny. It isn't that hard to find someone to look in to it, or to find someone to replace Span. This board and a fantasy teams has more brains than him. You make moves quickly or you end up in last place and the teams down the toliet for years to come.

It's not hard to find a medical expert to look through an entire organization, review medical documents thoroughly, evaluate the problem, recommend a solution, and find qualified candidates to replace the current staff? Really? That doesn't take long?

The point is that you don't make these moves quickly or you'll end up exactly where you began (or worse). It takes time to solve problems and going with a knee-jerk reaction rarely delivers the desired result.

diehardtwinsfan
08-22-2012, 09:56 AM
Even with everything you are saying Brock, I highly doubt they go and fire the whole staff. This problem is a culture/management issue (at least from here), and I suspect they start at the top relieving the person in charge of them and bringing in someone who will change the culture. The rank and file that resist will go.

Brock Beauchamp
08-22-2012, 10:01 AM
Even with everything you are saying Brock, I highly doubt they go and fire the whole staff. This problem is a culture/management issue (at least from here), and I suspect they start at the top relieving the person in charge of them and bringing in someone who will change the culture. The rank and file that resist will go.

I see that being the course of action as well. You put in a new lead and let that person decide what adjustments to make. The trick is finding out whether the old lead is the problem in the first place and finding a competent replacement who won't make the same mistakes. The way people on this forum talk about hiring and firing people leads me to believe they've never had to do it in their own profession. It's not as if you can just flip open the phone book and find "your guy" in a couple of minutes. Finding good employees is hard.

powrwrap
08-22-2012, 10:03 AM
Don't try to be funny. It isn't that hard to find someone to look in to it, or to find someone to replace Span. This board and a fantasy teams has more brains than him. You make moves quickly or you end up in last place and the teams down the toliet for years to come.

It's not hard to find a medical expert to look through an entire organization, review medical documents thoroughly, evaluate the problem, recommend a solution, and find qualified candidates to replace the current staff? Really? That doesn't take long?

The point is that you don't make these moves quickly or you'll end up exactly where you began (or worse). It takes time to solve problems and going with a knee-jerk reaction rarely delivers the desired result.

Terry Ryan could send a message to the medical staff by requiring every diagnosis to be confirmed or denied by an outside medical professional. Get a 2nd opinion, or a 3rd one, if necessary. Pavano's actual injury was diagnosed by an outsider. I believe Scott Baker's was also. This isn't expensive, you don't have to hire anyone onto the staff, and the current medical staff gets the message that they are being watched. Then in the off season do a complete evaluation using the data gathered using these outside pros compared to your inside staff. How many times were the Twins doctors wrong? How many times were they right? Works for me.

Rosterman
08-22-2012, 10:05 AM
Happily, it seems, the Twins haven't needed this bench spot. Butera isn't playing. Casilla isn't getting played. Carson seems to be a decent bench guy. Hopefully Span is back in Minneapolis and the Twins save on the West Coast hotel room. But it doesn't really make sense, except when you ask "who should they promote." With Rochester and New Britain in the playoff hunt, you don't want to take their best players to sit on the bench (hopefully Blackburn pitching instead of Hendriks doesn't blow it for the Red Wings). Maybe if there was some grizzled oldtimer in the minors, you would do that. But right now, the Twins are playing with what they have...although it would be interesting to see what fun Arcia would have if he was promoted early.

Brock Beauchamp
08-22-2012, 10:11 AM
Terry Ryan could send a message to the medical staff by requiring every diagnosis to be confirmed or denied by an outside medical professional. Get a 2nd opinion, or a 3rd one, if necessary. Pavano's actual injury was diagnosed by an outsider. I believe Scott Baker's was also. This isn't expensive, you don't have to hire anyone onto the staff, and the current medical staff gets the message that they are being watched. Then in the off season do a complete evaluation using the data gathered using these outside pros compared to your inside staff. How many times were the Twins doctors wrong? How many times were they right? Works for me.

A completely sane and reasonable expectation. I was surprised that it took this long to get Pavano outside of the organization for review. After Baker, you'd think that's something they would have done in June.

A failing on the part of the front office? Possibly, maybe even likely.

powrwrap
08-22-2012, 10:44 AM
Terry Ryan could send a message to the medical staff by requiring every diagnosis to be confirmed or denied by an outside medical professional. Get a 2nd opinion, or a 3rd one, if necessary. Pavano's actual injury was diagnosed by an outsider. I believe Scott Baker's was also. This isn't expensive, you don't have to hire anyone onto the staff, and the current medical staff gets the message that they are being watched. Then in the off season do a complete evaluation using the data gathered using these outside pros compared to your inside staff. How many times were the Twins doctors wrong? How many times were they right? Works for me.

Upon further review, based on new information, it seems this is exactly what the Twins did with Pavano:

New York specialist Dr. David Altchek said Pavano has a bruise on the humerus bone, an injury that likely would have recovered in a few weeks had he rested it. Instead, Pavano worked three months on rehabilitating what was believed to be a strained shoulder capsule.
Altchek saw every MRI the Twins did on Pavano during the season and concurred with their diagnosis. He even remarked in May that he noticed Pavano's shoulder gaining strength.

Twins Assistant General Manager Rob Antony admitted to being surprised by the new diagnosis on Tuesday.

"All along our doctors and Altchek have conferred on everything," Antony said. "To me, I'm not sure how many more medical opinions you can get on this guy, or more tests done or whatever, than we did."
http://www.startribune.com/sports/twins/166993736.html?refer=y

jokin
08-22-2012, 01:00 PM
Terry Ryan could send a message to the medical staff by requiring every diagnosis to be confirmed or denied by an outside medical professional. Get a 2nd opinion, or a 3rd one, if necessary. Pavano's actual injury was diagnosed by an outsider. I believe Scott Baker's was also. This isn't expensive, you don't have to hire anyone onto the staff, and the current medical staff gets the message that they are being watched. Then in the off season do a complete evaluation using the data gathered using these outside pros compared to your inside staff. How many times were the Twins doctors wrong? How many times were they right? Works for me.

Upon further review, based on new information, it seems this is exactly what the Twins did with Pavano:

New York specialist Dr. David Altchek said Pavano has a bruise on the humerus bone, an injury that likely would have recovered in a few weeks had he rested it. Instead, Pavano worked three months on rehabilitating what was believed to be a strained shoulder capsule.
Altchek saw every MRI the Twins did on Pavano during the season and concurred with their diagnosis. He even remarked in May that he noticed Pavano's shoulder gaining strength.

Twins Assistant General Manager Rob Antony admitted to being surprised by the new diagnosis on Tuesday.

"All along our doctors and Altchek have conferred on everything," Antony said. "To me, I'm not sure how many more medical opinions you can get on this guy, or more tests done or whatever, than we did."
http://www.startribune.com/sports/twins/166993736.html?refer=y

This smells of an organization trying to play PR catch-up based on the initial announcement and Pavano's public statements in regards to the situation. Rob Antony is usually the nominee to do this kind of dirty work.

jokin
08-22-2012, 01:29 PM
Terry Ryan could send a message to the medical staff by requiring every diagnosis to be confirmed or denied by an outside medical professional. Get a 2nd opinion, or a 3rd one, if necessary. Pavano's actual injury was diagnosed by an outsider. I believe Scott Baker's was also. This isn't expensive, you don't have to hire anyone onto the staff, and the current medical staff gets the message that they are being watched. Then in the off season do a complete evaluation using the data gathered using these outside pros compared to your inside staff. How many times were the Twins doctors wrong? How many times were they right? Works for me.

A completely sane and reasonable expectation. I was surprised that it took this long to get Pavano outside of the organization for review. After Baker, you'd think that's something they would have done in June.

A failing on the part of the front office? Possibly, maybe even likely.

Excellent proposal employing the common sense I advocated, which is why your previous abolutist argument against the critics held no water. I was not advocating firing everyone within shouting distance, just holding Ryan accountable to the words he himself used to address the situation. I'm sure most thoughtful outside critics were of the same mind. Ryan's opening statements upon becoming GM last year concerning the medical/training issues were in direct response to the disaster that the 2011 season became and which ultimately threatened to make the once-justly-proud Twins organization a laughingstock (how soon did we forget "bilateral leg weakness"?)-- starting with delayed but necessary surgeries shortly after the 2010 season completed, up to, and including the gaffe-tastic Public Relations debacle concerning health, season-readiness and injury issues. Given the unfolding events during the 2012 season, Ryan's failure to make a public effort to get out in front of this issue (as in the above proposal from powrwrap) is coming back to bite the Twins yet again.

joeboo_22
08-22-2012, 10:14 PM
Span says he plans on playing in Texas.

My resonse- well I hope so. Its only been 10 days

John Bonnes
08-30-2012, 04:05 PM
At long last our national nightmare is over. Span will be put on the DL today, 19 days father he was injured, having played in four games and getting five hits. Also, one game before rosters expand.

GCTF
08-30-2012, 04:11 PM
This team needs an enema.

jctwins
08-30-2012, 04:58 PM
This team needs an enema.

Stop hating JR.

jokin
08-30-2012, 05:04 PM
Terry Ryan could send a message to the medical staff by requiring every diagnosis to be confirmed or denied by an outside medical professional. Get a 2nd opinion, or a 3rd one, if necessary. Pavano's actual injury was diagnosed by an outsider. I believe Scott Baker's was also. This isn't expensive, you don't have to hire anyone onto the staff, and the current medical staff gets the message that they are being watched. Then in the off season do a complete evaluation using the data gathered using these outside pros compared to your inside staff. How many times were the Twins doctors wrong? How many times were they right? Works for me.

A completely sane and reasonable expectation. I was surprised that it took this long to get Pavano outside of the organization for review. After Baker, you'd think that's something they would have done in June.

A failing on the part of the front office? Possibly, maybe even likely.

Excellent proposal employing the common sense I advocated, which is why your previous abolutist argument against the critics held no water. I was not advocating firing everyone within shouting distance, just holding Ryan accountable to the words he himself used to address the situation. I'm sure most thoughtful outside critics were of the same mind. Ryan's opening statements upon becoming GM last year concerning the medical/training issues were in direct response to the disaster that the 2011 season became and which ultimately threatened to make the once-justly-proud Twins organization a laughingstock (how soon did we forget "bilateral leg weakness"?)-- starting with delayed but necessary surgeries shortly after the 2010 season completed, up to, and including the gaffe-tastic Public Relations debacle concerning health, season-readiness and injury issues. Given the unfolding events during the 2012 season, Ryan's failure to make a public effort to get out in front of this issue (as in the above proposal from powrwrap) is coming back to bite the Twins yet again.

Coomer might have jeopardized his job, but right after Gardy made the announcement about Span, Ron went way out on a limb and promised that the Twins will most assuredly take a long look at taking great efforts to insure that this type of DL-Dance situation doesn't happen again next year.

You just can't make the goofy stuff this team says and does up.