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Parker Hageman
08-20-2012, 03:31 PM
Twins announce that they will outright Nick Blackburn and Tsuyoshi Nishioka off the 40-man roster.

Since being recalled from Rochester, Blackburn had made six starts only to compile a 0-4 record with an pear-shaped 6.11 ERA while opponents hit .351/.367/.576. The Twins, who had beat the drums that there would be no more "scholarships" for their players, reacted swiftly to Blackburn's struggles and recent quotes which seems to irk the front office (http://m.startribune.com/news/?id=166663226&c=y).

Clearly the Twins were not sold on Blackburn's ability to bounce back. As assistant GM Rob Antony told reporters on Saturday in Seattle:


"We're going to try to figure out what the right thing is to try and get this guy back on track," said Rob Antony, Twins assistant general manager, on Saturday. "He had some concerning statements. 'I'm not sure what to do' -- when big-leaguers have thoughts like that, then you know their confidence is struggling."

Nishioka, meanwhile, had been hitting .252/.311/.313 in the International League and was completely overmatched in his short stint with the Twins this year.

The move leaves the team with 38 players on their 40-man roster.

Dilligaf69
08-20-2012, 03:32 PM
Thanks to Parker on Twitter!

Dilligaf69
08-20-2012, 03:35 PM
Ok not that it matters much at this point but who replaces them... or will the Twins just wait until the offseason?? can they wait or do they have to make a move/moves??

Seth Stohs
08-20-2012, 03:39 PM
Ok not that it matters much at this point but who replaces them... or will the Twins just wait until the offseason?? can they wait or do they have to make a move/moves??

I'd guess Vasquez at some point... Maybe Slama. But they wouldn't announce those moves until they have to. It's actually a good thing to have less than 40.

YourHouseIsMyHouse
08-20-2012, 03:44 PM
So this looks pretty good regarding Blackburn's future, right? In that there is no future obviously.

grubah
08-20-2012, 03:45 PM
My prayers have been answered! No more watching Blackburn continue to stink it up this season. These moves just brightened my day!!

TwinsMusings
08-20-2012, 03:47 PM
Vasquez makes sense at this point in the season. The Twins need someone for Blackburn's slot in the rotation and it gives them a chance to get a look at Vasquez early. Hendriks might be another alternative, but he will most likely not get called up until September and even then only if he keeps pitching well at AAA.

Dilligaf69
08-20-2012, 03:50 PM
Vasquez makes sense at this point in the season. The Twins need someone for Blackburn's slot in the rotation and it gives them a chance to get a look at Vasquez early. Hendriks might be another alternative, but he will most likely not get called up until September and even then only if he keeps pitching well at AAA.


Yeah those two seem to be the options, more likely Vasquez and save Hendriks for Sept....Blackies still due $5.5 mil for 2013...must be nice!:cry:

mike wants wins
08-20-2012, 03:52 PM
Both good moves. Hopefully the FO has learned from the Blackburn situation in terms of future contracts.

Seth Stohs
08-20-2012, 03:54 PM
Vasquez is scheduled to pitch tonight for Rochester, so we'll need to see if he makes the start. Since Blackburn is scheduled to start Wednesday, Hendriks makes more sense right now as he started on Friday night and could take that spot.

Seth Stohs
08-20-2012, 03:56 PM
I've been pushing to DFA Blackburn for over a year, and finally, it's happened. I thought I'd be happier.

Winston Smith
08-20-2012, 03:56 PM
When will Pavano and or Walters come back? They need an open spot for them. Not sure what the point would be to bring Pavamo back, time to wish him luck and say goodbye.

PseudoSABR
08-20-2012, 04:05 PM
Great news. It's nice to see the Twins willing to bite the bullet on their mistakes.

IdahoPilgrim
08-20-2012, 04:05 PM
When will Pavano and or Walters come back? They need an open spot for them. Not sure what the point would be to bring Pavamo back, time to wish him luck and say goodbye.

Walters has to be close - he threw 59 pitches in his last rehab start on Sunday.

John Bonnes
08-20-2012, 04:05 PM
I'll admit, I didn't see this coming. I thought Blackburn might be moved to the 'pen, or maybe even optioned, but DFAed? Wow.

IdahoPilgrim
08-20-2012, 04:08 PM
So what happens with them next? The lead entry in the thread says they are being outrighted. I guess my only question is why are we even keeping them in the organization instead of releasing them? Is it just salary reasons - we're paying them so maybe the Triple-A club can use them? Are they being held in reserve in case the sky falls and they are needed in the future?

Highabove
08-20-2012, 04:18 PM
Does Jeff Gray continue to hold on to his Scholarship??

BeefMaster
08-20-2012, 04:19 PM
So what happens with them next? The lead entry in the thread says they are being outrighted. I guess my only question is why are we even keeping them in the organization instead of releasing them? Is it just salary reasons - we're paying them so maybe the Triple-A club can use them? Are they being held in reserve in case the sky falls and they are needed in the future?

I'd guess either of those reasons is behind it. Generally, if a player doesn't have enough seniority to decline a minor league assignment (which neither Nishi or Blackburn do), teams will go ahead and use them as AAA roster filler. You may as well get SOME value out of that sunk cost, and if nothing else they can buy when the team goes out to dinner. The Twins are generally good about granting a guy his release if he could get a shot with another team, but I'm reasonably certain neither of these guys are getting major league offers anytime soon.

IdahoPilgrim
08-20-2012, 04:21 PM
So what happens with them next? The lead entry in the thread says they are being outrighted. I guess my only question is why are we even keeping them in the organization instead of releasing them? Is it just salary reasons - we're paying them so maybe the Triple-A club can use them? Are they being held in reserve in case the sky falls and they are needed in the future?

I'd guess either of those reasons is behind it. Generally, if a player doesn't have enough seniority to decline a minor league assignment (which neither Nishi or Blackburn do), teams will go ahead and use them as AAA roster filler. You may as well get SOME value out of that sunk cost, and if nothing else they can buy when the team goes out to dinner. The Twins are generally good about granting a guy his release if he could get a shot with another team, but I'm reasonably certain neither of these guys are getting major league offers anytime soon.

The fact they have been outrighted means they must have cleared waivers, so you're probably right.

glunn
08-20-2012, 04:23 PM
I hope that they bring up Vasquez that we can see what he can do.

Curt
08-20-2012, 04:25 PM
Maybe everyone but me knows this but... looking up "outrighting"... A player can be outrighted, without his permission, only once. A player with five years major league experience cannot be outrighted, regardless whether he as been previously outrighted, without his permission. According to Baseball-Reference, Blackburn debuted 9/3/2007 which would be just under the wire. He did get demoted for a while in 2010 which would subtract from that too, I think. If he had five years experience, he would have to be released (if he did not give his permission).

IdahoPilgrim
08-20-2012, 04:29 PM
Maybe everyone but me knows this but... looking up "outrighting"... A player can be outrighted, without his permission, only once. A player with five years major league experience cannot be outrighted, regardless whether he as been previously outrighted, without his permission. According to Baseball-Reference, Blackburn debuted 9/3/2007 which would be just under the wire. He did get demoted for a while in 2010 which would subtract from that too, I think. If he had five years experience, he would have to be released (if he did not give his permission).

Correct in all. Any player with five years service can refuse a minor league assignment, option or outright (except for rehab assignments).

Thrylos
08-20-2012, 04:31 PM
So what happens with them next? The lead entry in the thread says they are being outrighted. I guess my only question is why are we even keeping them in the organization instead of releasing them? Is it just salary reasons - we're paying them so maybe the Triple-A club can use them? Are they being held in reserve in case the sky falls and they are needed in the future?

They put them through irrevocable waivers (not August trade waivers - things get confusing this time of the year) and nobody claimed him. I am pretty sure that they will do something with them before 2013. They are actively looking for a Japanese team to pick up Nishioka's contract (and that would be a win-win situation I think). Otherwise, Rochester will have a $8.5 M investment in 2013. I suspect that Blackburn might get an invite in Spring training...

Rosterman
08-20-2012, 04:36 PM
No one wants them. If a team claimed Blackburn, they would be on the hook for his remaining salary and all his salary next year. The call will be if he and the Twins stay buddies next year. I think he either walks away from his salary or stays under Twins control next year, too. The Twins need to see if they can sell Toshi to Japan.

Rosterman
08-20-2012, 04:42 PM
Will Pavano be back? Two starts before 9/1 to see if he can help a contender? At this point, might as well just given him his release. Worry about finding a spot for Walters. And what about Gray. Hasn't he worn out his welcome?

Curt
08-20-2012, 04:46 PM
Otherwise, Rochester will have a $8.5 M investment in 2013.

The Twins will pay that. $8.5 M would cover Rochester's payroll for twenty years.

BrentMpls
08-20-2012, 04:49 PM
Sad to see this happen to Blackburn, but if he's making statements like that, this is probably for the best.

I remember in 2010 a couple weeks before he was sent down to Rochester I was within earshot of him when he was signing a ball for a kid and the parent said "look, there is a real major league baseball player!" to his son before Blackburn took the ball to sign it, and when he heard that, Blackburn said "Kind of".

TheLeviathan
08-20-2012, 04:51 PM
The real question is who does Jeff Gray have leverage on if these two went before him.

Brock Beauchamp
08-20-2012, 04:52 PM
So what happens with them next? The lead entry in the thread says they are being outrighted. I guess my only question is why are we even keeping them in the organization instead of releasing them? Is it just salary reasons - we're paying them so maybe the Triple-A club can use them? Are they being held in reserve in case the sky falls and they are needed in the future?

You're paying the guy. Why not keep him around in case he rebounds? Now that he's off the 40 man roster, it doesn't matter one lick whether he's playing for you, playing for the Padres, or sitting at home. He's not blocking anyone in the system. At that point, you may as well keep the guy around "just in case".

Thrylos
08-20-2012, 04:56 PM
One little detail because the rules are kind of complicated. They did not get Designated For Assignment, they got outrighted. There are four types of waivers in baseball, all explained really well here (http://www.baseball-reference.com/bullpen/Waivers)(this is a must read and bookmark btw) :

Trade Waivers, Waivers for the purpose of granting a player his unconditional release (DFA), Outright Waivers and Option Waivers.

The first kind is revocable and happen only in August, the other 3 are irrevocable. The difference between DFA and ouright waivers is that if a veteran (Blackburn is that and Nishioka is not) refuses, in both cases he becomes a free agent, but in a DFA situation the team in on the hook for his contract while in Outright Waivers, if he refuses assignment he loses what is owed to him.

Thought to clarify that because it is way to complicated.

Thrylos
08-20-2012, 04:57 PM
Otherwise, Rochester will have a $8.5 M investment in 2013.

The Twins will pay that. $8.5 M would cover Rochester's payroll for twenty years.

The Twins pay all players salaries in the minors. The local clubs just pay for facility-related things.

Cody Christie
08-20-2012, 05:01 PM
When I saw this in one of my blog feeds, I thought it was just speculation. Turns out it's true!! Guess it caught me a little off guard. I thought that the Twins would stick with Blackburn because he is owed so much next season. Glad that they made the right moves with both of these players at this point in their careers.

BeefMaster
08-20-2012, 05:05 PM
I'd guess either of those reasons is behind it. Generally, if a player doesn't have enough seniority to decline a minor league assignment (which neither Nishi or Blackburn do), teams will go ahead and use them as AAA roster filler. You may as well get SOME value out of that sunk cost, and if nothing else they can buy when the team goes out to dinner. The Twins are generally good about granting a guy his release if he could get a shot with another team, but I'm reasonably certain neither of these guys are getting major league offers anytime soon.

The fact they have been outrighted means they must have cleared waivers, so you're probably right.

That doesn't necessarily mean no one wants them - it means no one wants them at their current salary. If someone wanted to sign Blackburn to a minor league deal (or, less likely, a major league contract for the minimum salary) in the offseason, it's not out of the realm of possibility that the Twins would grant him his release to pursue that.

Matt VS
08-20-2012, 05:09 PM
I think it would be a smart idea to call up Vasquez to take his spot in the rotation. Why not give the guy you haven't seen yet this year a couple starts before Sep. 1st? Let Walters go another rehab start and Hendricks continue to work at a level where he's gaining confidence. What difference would it make to see Hendricks or Walters for 1-2 additional starts when we have a pretty good idea what they offer at the MLB level?

Now I'm waiting for the Gray/Slama flip...

diehardtwinsfan
08-20-2012, 05:14 PM
I'd have to think that Hendricks gets teh call here. They need to see if the things he's worked on have helped a bit.

The Twins are still forced to pay for both Nishi and Blackburn, but at least now they aren't on the 40 man.

Thrylos
08-20-2012, 05:19 PM
I'd have to think that Hendricks gets teh call here. They need to see if the things he's worked on have helped a bit.

The Twins are still forced to pay for both Nishi and Blackburn, but at least now they aren't on the 40 man.

Vasquez is starting for Rochester tonight. I think that either Hendriks or Swarzak is making the start in Blackburn's position.

drivlikejehu
08-20-2012, 05:36 PM
I've been pushing to DFA Blackburn for over a year, and finally, it's happened. I thought I'd be happier.

Blackburn made far more money than most players who reach the Majors. It's not exactly a sob story. The guy can't pitch, so he was dropped off the 40-man. Pretty straightforward situation that happens all the time. His contract just delayed the inevitable.

SpiritofVodkaDave
08-20-2012, 05:38 PM
Though I think this signifies the end of Blackburn for the Twins, I hope he is able to rebound in the future, perhaps if he gets it back together he can be a #5 type guy in the NL.

He obviously lacked the high end talent we would prefer, but when he was effective the guy always went out and gave us quite a few good performances while keeping his mouth shut unlike some of the other #5 pitchers we have had in the past. Plus, his game 163 will be remembered as a hell of a performance, and he seemed to be the one pitcher who wouldn't **** all over himself when they played in Yankee stadium. I still think he can figure out a way to get back to a 4.50 ERA type guy, that place probably isn't on the Twins though.

lecroy24fan
08-20-2012, 05:58 PM
I would like to see Vazquez/Hendriks replace Duensing in the rotation. Put him back in the bullpen please.

Rosterman
08-20-2012, 06:12 PM
Ah...Carlos Silva revisited.

snepp
08-20-2012, 06:21 PM
If I didn't know better I'd think that today was my birthday.

jokin
08-20-2012, 06:35 PM
I think it would be a smart idea to call up Vasquez to take his spot in the rotation. Why not give the guy you haven't seen yet this year a couple starts before Sep. 1st? Let Walters go another rehab start and Hendricks continue to work at a level where he's gaining confidence. What difference would it make to see Hendricks or Walters for 1-2 additional starts when we have a pretty good idea what they offer at the MLB level?

Now I'm waiting for the Gray/Slama flip...

When asked about AAA RP options for call-up on Sunday, Rantz was spoke loudly in his silence, concerning Slama. Caleb Thielbar was the guy he went out of his way to heap praise upon, he has made a metoriic rise through the org. and it's not beyond the realm of possibility that he gets the flip, instead.

Top Gun
08-20-2012, 06:35 PM
It's about time, Gray should be next, a few wins can't hold him much longer.

Seth Stohs
08-20-2012, 06:51 PM
When asked about AAA RP options for call-up on Sunday, Rantz was spoke loudly in his silence, concerning Slama. Caleb Thielbar was the guy he went out of his way to heap praise upon, he has made a metoriic rise through the org. and it's not beyond the realm of possibility that he gets the flip, instead.

I'd have no problem with Thielbar getting called up. The question Rantz was asked was about which players have surprised in how well they've played this year, and he started with Thielbar.

crarko
08-20-2012, 07:43 PM
I'll just say they both had their chances to succeed, and didn't get it done. And yes, Gray should probably be next.

Looking at Vasquez makes sense, although I think it's a good bet Hendriks makes next year's opening rotation.

As an aside, I really like what Florimon has done with his chance so far. Pretty much the exact opposite of Nishioka.

PseudoSABR
08-20-2012, 07:55 PM
One would think that Nishi will want to go back to Japan next year, rather than waste away in the minors. So the Twins will probably save that money.

Jack Torse
08-20-2012, 08:06 PM
Shame on the Twins for letting this guy get his tits lit up for 4 months. He should have been protected better by this orginization. The wheels seem to come off a bit more every day for the Twins. Hopefully they wont let another decade go by to worry about winning again.

beckmt
08-20-2012, 08:10 PM
TR was on ESPN in the 6:00 PM hour. This was all discussed, but he did not disclose if someone was coming up. He commented that he wanted the spots if he needed them, and would not deny that more moves are coming. Pitching was a concern, but TR did not feel that hitting was all that solid either.

IdahoPilgrim
08-20-2012, 08:12 PM
Shame on the Twins for letting this guy get his tits lit up for 4 months. He should have been protected better by this orginization. The wheels seem to come off a bit more every day for the Twins. Hopefully they wont let another decade go by to worry about winning again.

Are you saying that it's the Twins fault that Blackburn pitched so poorly?

Thrylos
08-20-2012, 08:41 PM
Shame on the Twins for letting this guy get his tits lit up for 4 months. He should have been protected better by this orginization. The wheels seem to come off a bit more every day for the Twins. Hopefully they wont let another decade go by to worry about winning again.

Are you saying that it's the Twins fault that Blackburn pitched so poorly?

Actually, I too think think that it is the Twins' fault that let Blackburn pitch so poorly with them. That extension was so ill advised back then when he projected as a 5th starter at best.

BrentMpls
08-20-2012, 08:51 PM
One would think that Nishi will want to go back to Japan next year, rather than waste away in the minors. So the Twins will probably save that money.

Why would he not want to play in the minors? Millions of dollars are nice.

twinsnorth49
08-20-2012, 09:28 PM
I've been pushing to DFA Blackburn for over a year, and finally, it's happened. I thought I'd be happier.

No worries, I'm probably happy enough for the both of us!!

jokin
08-20-2012, 09:46 PM
When asked about AAA RP options for call-up on Sunday, Rantz was spoke loudly in his silence, concerning Slama. Caleb Thielbar was the guy he went out of his way to heap praise upon, he has made a metoriic rise through the org. and it's not beyond the realm of possibility that he gets the flip, instead.

I'd have no problem with Thielbar getting called up. The question Rantz was asked was about which players have surprised in how well they've played this year, and he started with Thielbar.

He did start with Thielbar. But he also reviewed some of the performances at AAA and Slama's name was curious by its absence, given the Twins ML pitching woes.

jokin
08-20-2012, 09:51 PM
TR was on ESPN in the 6:00 PM hour. This was all discussed, but he did not disclose if someone was coming up. He commented that he wanted the spots if he needed them, and would not deny that more moves are coming. Pitching was a concern, but TR did not feel that hitting was all that solid either.

See TR... and all you guys that say it's so disruptive to tinker and adjust names with the 40-man, more moves better be coming. By my count, this is now 12 40-man roster moves in-season. And just now, we're finally getting to the 500-lb impotent gorillas, but there's still much more heavy lifting to do to get rid of the bulk of the remaining dead weight.

jctwins
08-20-2012, 10:04 PM
And apparently DPJ isn't even here anymore to enjoy this.

Danchat
08-20-2012, 10:36 PM
This is a classic example of addition by subtraction.

kab21
08-20-2012, 10:59 PM
At last this nightmare is over (hopefully).

It seems to me that this is the end since they waited almost until rosters expand to do this so I have to think the Twins are setting up to part ways this winter.

Jeremy Nygaard
08-20-2012, 11:07 PM
The simple fact that Nishi was outrighted is curious. Why not do it when he was taken off of the 25-man? Similar with Blackburn... why not option him unless you need that spot immediately? My first thought was that Walters must be close to re-joining the big club and that's why the 40-man spot was needed. But it doesn't look like he's close enough.

Vazquez started tonight, so it doesn't look like he'll be the one. Hendriks could be the guy... but am I alone in thinking he'd be better off pitching in a AAA pennant race rather than a few August/September games that don't matter? The Rock Cats are in the same boat. It's been a while since both AAA and AA have been in this situation.

I'm ok with the Twins thinning their 40-man in preparation for the September call-ups... but let those guys play for something and call them up when their season is done... someone's going to come up to take Blackburn's place... but I hope it's not someone that will leave the Red Wings short as they close the gap in the standings.

Montecore
08-20-2012, 11:55 PM
The extension was emblematic of the organization's stupidity with Gardenhire at the helm. Nishi should just head back home. It's sad, but, for dignity's sake he should just go. If only he was Jim Eisenrich and it was a medical/psychological situation. But, it's not. I haven't played a game of hardball in a decade and am 40 lbs. overweight and I know I could play better than him. It's just a mystery how he ever got signed.

old nurse
08-21-2012, 01:20 AM
If an astute fan can see the difference in Blackburn's delivery when he was somewhat successful and when he is not, l it would be more than reasonable to think the coaches have also. It is quite possible Blackburn's demotion rests squarely on him not accepting coaching.

old nurse
08-21-2012, 01:22 AM
If I didn't know better I'd think that today was my birthday.

Don't have any more birthdays than you have to. Say if you didn't know any better you thought it was Christmas or Mardi Gras

beckmt
08-21-2012, 04:22 AM
I am hoping Nishi gets sold back to Japan, that could happen. Blackie will probably be in Rochester next year and I hope he is not called up again unless he is totalty burning up the league. Interesting question if this happens is should Bobby Cuellar be the Twins pitching coach as he seems to get more out of talent than Anderson. Blackburn will not walk away from 5.5 million, so any hopes of seeing him elsewhere next year should be forgotten.

DPJ
08-21-2012, 07:28 AM
I'll see you in hell Nick Blackburn!!!

jctwins
08-21-2012, 08:53 AM
I'll see you in hell Nick Blackburn!!!

Ha I thought you had abandoned the board and this awful squad. I came into this thread just to see what you wrote.

stringer bell
08-21-2012, 09:34 AM
So what happens with them next? The lead entry in the thread says they are being outrighted. I guess my only question is why are we even keeping them in the organization instead of releasing them? Is it just salary reasons - we're paying them so maybe the Triple-A club can use them? Are they being held in reserve in case the sky falls and they are needed in the future?

You're paying the guy. Why not keep him around in case he rebounds? Now that he's off the 40 man roster, it doesn't matter one lick whether he's playing for you, playing for the Padres, or sitting at home. He's not blocking anyone in the system. At that point, you may as well keep the guy around "just in case".You got that right Pig. If there's a one in ten chance that either player comes back to contribute then you can be glad they stayed in the system. Otherwise they are expensive filler for the Red Wings.