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View Full Version : Delmon Young traded one year ago today



greengoblinrulz
08-15-2012, 11:43 AM
With DET
146gms 576ABs .267/.296/.415 67runs 23doubles 1triples 20Hrs 79rbi 0/2sb 103k 21bb
only 65 of those starts in LF....something MN failed to realize (might have devasted him) would benefit the team
Very average player.....what a waste

Ultima Ratio
08-15-2012, 11:48 AM
Don't you mean "sold one year ago" -- here we go....

twinsnorth49
08-15-2012, 12:13 PM
Don't you mean "sold one year ago" -- here we go....


Are you saying it's ok to sell a.........nevermind.

Riverbrian
08-15-2012, 12:17 PM
Don't you mean "sold one year ago" -- here we go....


Are you saying it's ok to sell a.........nevermind.

Wish we could have gotten more for him... Considering what we gave up to get him... However... I don't miss him one bit... I hate very few Twins players... He I hated...

SpiritofVodkaDave
08-15-2012, 12:23 PM
He had a nice run for Detroit in the last month of the season last year, but this year he has been dreadful (-.7 WAR)
The guy had a golden opp this year hitting behind Miggy and Prince and laid a big turd, if he would have taken advantage of the situation he could have been looking at a nice contract at the end of the season, now he will be lucky to get a major league contract next season.

LaBombo
08-15-2012, 12:42 PM
Great. I was just thinking this morning, "What I could really use is another reminder of how the Twins were destroyed by one of the worst GM's in the history of baseball". And here's this awesome thread to do just that! Cool!

Bartlett/Garza post-trade WAR: 18.6 Delmon Young post-trade WAR: -0.8

Other people may see this move as a failure, but I see it as an ingenious maneuver by Smith. It makes the +0.4 WAR received in return for a perennial Cy Young candidate look like an absolute haul.

Is anybody else discouraged by the fact that the same people who let Bill Smith run the Twins for four years still own this team?

Edit: Oops, forgot to include the 0.1 WAR that Lester Oliveros churned out for the Twins in return for Delmon. And DY's WAR total does not reflect today's home run. Still leaning Garza/Bartlett, though.

YourHouseIsMyHouse
08-15-2012, 01:01 PM
The return was small because it was probably well known the Twins weren't going to offer him a contract following that season anyway. I don't miss him and I still think it was one of Bill Smith's best moves.

LaBombo
08-15-2012, 01:07 PM
The return was small because it was probably well known the Twins weren't going to offer him a contract following that season anyway. I don't miss him and I still think it was one of Bill Smith's best moves.

That last sentence is one of the sweetest summaries of Bill Smith's reign of terror I've ever read.

LaBombo
08-15-2012, 01:09 PM
Don't you mean "sold one year ago" -- here we go....


Are you saying it's ok to sell a.........nevermind.

The answer to your other question is yes... it is too soon.

Mr. Ed
08-15-2012, 01:27 PM
Add another HR to the total thanks to meatball DeVries

stringer bell
08-15-2012, 01:33 PM
I think Oliveros will be an okay relief pitcher. He probably would be hurling for the Twins now if not for the bone chips in his elbow. If the Twins can get a few decent years out of him, they win the Delmon trade. Delmon is not a good baseball player. It will be interesting to see what kind of contract he gets next year.

LaBombo
08-15-2012, 01:42 PM
If you missed it the first time, or just haven't seen it in a while, check out the best Delmon action photo ever (http://aarongleeman.com/2011/08/16/twins-trade-delmon-young-to-tigers-for-cole-nelson-and-ptbnl/):

Seth Stohs
08-15-2012, 02:09 PM
I really like Lester Oliveros as a potential 8th inning guy. And if they got that in an August trade for Young, that was a steal.

cr9617
08-15-2012, 02:21 PM
I think Oliveros will be an okay relief pitcher. He probably would be hurling for the Twins now if not for the bone chips in his elbow. If the Twins can get a few decent years out of him, they win the Delmon trade. Delmon is not a good baseball player. It will be interesting to see what kind of contract he gets next year.

Based on what?

Tampa got 2-3 good years from Bartlett and Garza, and then traded both away for 7-8 prospects/Mlb players.

Delmon had one good season, and 3 lousy ones for the Twins....and they got stinkin Oliveros for him.

This trade was incredibly lopsided....not in the Twins favor.

LaBombo
08-15-2012, 02:35 PM
stringer was referring to Delmon/Oliveros, not Delmon/Barza, is my guess.

And that just makes the Delmon episode that much more painful. After all, the deal wasn't Delmon for Lester Oliveros. It was Delmon for Cole Nelson, who is now 22 and still getting his butt kicked in A ball. Oliveros was a PTBNL, for heaven's sake.

And that, for me anyway, kills the notion that Bill Smith 'won' the trade with Detroit. If anything, it just shows that even the Twins' bizarre talent valuation was due to hit on a prospect out of sheer luck. Blind squirrel, meet nut.

CDog
08-15-2012, 02:52 PM
I think Oliveros will be an okay relief pitcher. He probably would be hurling for the Twins now if not for the bone chips in his elbow. If the Twins can get a few decent years out of him, they win the Delmon trade. Delmon is not a good baseball player. It will be interesting to see what kind of contract he gets next year.

Based on the output the Twins would have gotten from Delmon this year (nothing, he wasn't coming back) and Oliveras's contributions last year and this, it is ALREADY a win for the Twins.

cr9617
08-15-2012, 02:54 PM
stringer was referring to Delmon/Oliveros, not Delmon/Barza, is my guess.

And that just makes the Delmon episode that much more painful. After all, the deal wasn't Delmon for Lester Oliveros. It was Delmon for Cole Nelson, who is now 22 and still getting his butt kicked in A ball. Oliveros was a PTBNL, for heaven's sake.

And that, for me anyway, kills the notion that Bill Smith 'won' the trade with Detroit. If anything, it just shows that even the Twins' bizarre talent valuation was due to hit on a prospect out of sheer luck. Blind squirrel, meet nut.

Awww, got it

CDog
08-15-2012, 02:58 PM
And that just makes the Delmon episode that much more painful. After all, the deal wasn't Delmon for Lester Oliveros. It was Delmon for Cole Nelson, who is now 22 and still getting his butt kicked in A ball. Oliveros was a PTBNL, for heaven's sake.

And that, for me anyway, kills the notion that Bill Smith 'won' the trade with Detroit. If anything, it just shows that even the Twins' bizarre talent valuation was due to hit on a prospect out of sheer luck. Blind squirrel, meet nut.

"Later" was the next day. It wasn't like a year later. Which brings up an off-topic question. Anyone have actual knowledge of how "players to be named later" are actually agreed upon? My impression--and I don't even know if it's based in any facts or rumors or just my own imagination--is that the two teams are down to a "well it can be one of these x guys" and then whoever is still undecided can pick from among those x players. And I would guess they do the deal without nailing down that final detail because it needs to happen before some deadline (like the time between making the waiver claim and when it expires). Is that about right? Anyone?

Riverbrian
08-15-2012, 03:05 PM
And that just makes the Delmon episode that much more painful. After all, the deal wasn't Delmon for Lester Oliveros. It was Delmon for Cole Nelson, who is now 22 and still getting his butt kicked in A ball. Oliveros was a PTBNL, for heaven's sake.

And that, for me anyway, kills the notion that Bill Smith 'won' the trade with Detroit. If anything, it just shows that even the Twins' bizarre talent valuation was due to hit on a prospect out of sheer luck. Blind squirrel, meet nut.

"Later" was the next day. It wasn't like a year later. Which brings up an off-topic question. Anyone have actual knowledge of how "players to be named later" are actually agreed upon? My impression--and I don't even know if it's based in any facts or rumors or just my own imagination--is that the two teams are down to a "well it can be one of these x guys" and then whoever is still undecided can pick from among those x players. And I would guess they do the deal without nailing down that final detail because it needs to happen before some deadline (like the time between making the waiver claim and when it expires). Is that about right? Anyone?

I'm guessing Cdog... My assumption is that a list of potential players that a club will give up is provided. The Trading team may like a couple of players on that list and agree to the trade and then take some time to watch the players a little more closely before officially grabbing the player.

However, I could Ten Miles off on this. This has just been my assumption.

Thrylos
08-15-2012, 03:07 PM
"Later" was the next day. It wasn't like a year later. Which brings up an off-topic question. Anyone have actual knowledge of how "players to be named later" are actually agreed upon? My impression--and I don't even know if it's based in any facts or rumors or just my own imagination--is that the two teams are down to a "well it can be one of these x guys" and then whoever is still undecided can pick from among those x players. And I would guess they do the deal without nailing down that final detail because it needs to happen before some deadline (like the time between making the waiver claim and when it expires). Is that about right? Anyone?

Some of the PTBNL are as you say, a team is given a list and they pick. Some others are players who were agreed upon but signed (from a draft) less than a year from the day of the trade and cannot be named and traded until a year passes. And sometimes when a team receives a PTBNL during the off-season is because they had a full 40-man roster and wanted to wait until it was reduced.

YourHouseIsMyHouse
08-15-2012, 03:09 PM
I think Oliveros will be an okay relief pitcher. He probably would be hurling for the Twins now if not for the bone chips in his elbow. If the Twins can get a few decent years out of him, they win the Delmon trade. Delmon is not a good baseball player. It will be interesting to see what kind of contract he gets next year.

I agree with this. People will say it was a bad move because they didn't trade Young after his breakout season. At the time of the move, it's a great deal. 1/3 a year of Young for Oliveros and Nelson.

TheLeviathan
08-15-2012, 03:12 PM
Based on the output the Twins would have gotten from Delmon this year (nothing, he wasn't coming back) and Oliveras's contributions last year and this, it is ALREADY a win for the Twins.

You can also look at it as a loss if you consider what we could have gotten for him had we dealt him in December or January rather than August.

LaBombo
08-15-2012, 03:17 PM
"Later" was the next day. It wasn't like a year later. Which brings up an off-topic question. Anyone have actual knowledge of how "players to be named later" are actually agreed upon?

Not sure where I implied otherwise, and it reinforces my point anyway. It's not like an army of Twins scouts scoured the Tigers system looking for a diamond in the rough. They pulled a name they liked less than probable bust Cole Nelson out of their collective @ss and may have actually gotten a pitcher out of it. Good for them.

Your understanding of PTBNL looks about right. Here's the wiki link:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Player_to_be_named_later.
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Player_to_be_named_later)

CDog
08-15-2012, 03:37 PM
Based on the output the Twins would have gotten from Delmon this year (nothing, he wasn't coming back) and Oliveras's contributions last year and this, it is ALREADY a win for the Twins.

You can also look at it as a loss if you consider what we could have gotten for him had we dealt him in December or January rather than August.

And I'm sure you do.

TheLeviathan
08-15-2012, 03:40 PM
And I'm sure you do.

Yes, I'm generally not a fan of trades made in the manner in which this one was completed. I'm also generally not a fan of "sell low" moves. Does this revoke my fanhood?

kab21
08-16-2012, 11:20 AM
I'm still happy that Young was sent packing regardless if the Twins got anything back.

SpiritofVodkaDave
08-16-2012, 11:22 AM
I'm still happy that Young was sent packing regardless if the Twins got anything back.
It saved a million bucks or so and they got a C- prospect back, much better then cutting him prior to 2012.

Fun fact: Delmon makes about the same salary as Willingham this year.

SpiritofVodkaDave
08-16-2012, 11:23 AM
And I'm sure you do.

Yes, I'm generally not a fan of trades made in the manner in which this one was completed. I'm also generally not a fan of "sell low" moves. Does this revoke my fanhood?
This is some pretty severe hindsight, and I'm not sure the market would have been as great as some think. Delmon was coming off a career year, the rest of his career was rather underwhelming and he had/has zero positive impact in the field.

Could we have gotten a better package then Oliveros? Sure, but it's not like we are getting a Garza type impact player back..

SpiritofVodkaDave
08-16-2012, 11:29 AM
Also it should be noted that the Twins didn't actually sell Young at his "low point", that happened this year with his hate crime/awful fielding/80 OPS+

TheLeviathan
08-16-2012, 11:32 AM
Could we have gotten a better package then Oliveros? Sure, but it's not like we are getting a Garza type impact player back..

That was the only point I was making - we definitely didn't move him at the opportune time. Also - we did sell him at his lowest point of tenure as a Twin. I didn't want him sticking around, but I never wanted him to stick around - even during that hot streak in July of 2010 or whatever it was.