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View Full Version : Deduno, and, the Maestro?



scottyc35
08-14-2012, 03:58 AM
Correct me if i'm mistaken, but hasn't Deduno thrown a quality start every time he's pitched for the Twins this year? And, do you think we should start calling Mastroianni "The Maestro"?
Idk, i'm not nearly as despondent about the future of this team as I was a couple months ago

diehardtwinsfan
08-14-2012, 07:18 AM
Denduno should make anyone a bit queasy. The guy has potential though, even if he is 28. He's got to locate that fastball. Personally, I'd keep him on the 40 man and option him to Rochester to start 2013, though I have no idea if he has options available and what not. If he gains a bit more control of that FB, he'd be the next RA Dickey.

Brock Beauchamp
08-14-2012, 07:20 AM
Denduno should make anyone a bit queasy. The guy has potential though, even if he is 28. He's got to locate that fastball. Personally, I'd keep him on the 40 man and option him to Rochester to start 2013, though I have no idea if he has options available and what not. If he gains a bit more control of that FB, he'd be the next RA Dickey.

I don't think he has options. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

At this point, it might be worth keeping him on the ML squad just in case he figures it out. He has more value than Blackburn, that's for sure.

SweetOne69
08-14-2012, 07:25 AM
Correct me if i'm mistaken, but hasn't Deduno thrown a quality start every time he's pitched for the Twins this year?

You are mistaken. Only 4 of his 7 starts have been Quality Starts. Most of the time it was due to not pitching 6+ innings. Only once has he given up more than 3 runs in an outing.

sorney
08-14-2012, 07:41 AM
Absolutely should keep Denduno with the big club. What do they have to lose?!?! Even if he only goes 5 innings, it's 5 innings the Blackburn/DeVries/et al aren't pitching.

DPJ
08-14-2012, 08:12 AM
Now just get Liam up here to replace Blackie (racist?) and I can somewhat live with his patchword rotation.

Fire Dan Gladden
08-14-2012, 08:28 AM
Deduno = smoke and mirrors = ticking time bomb

Don't think long term, just enjoy the ride while it is happening

Brock Beauchamp
08-14-2012, 08:31 AM
Now just get Liam up here to replace Blackie (racist?) and I can somewhat live with his patchword rotation.

Words I didn't expect to hear during the 2012 season. JR's "sign every scrub and see what they do in the minors" strategy has paid some unexpected dividends in the short term.

SpiritofVodkaDave
08-14-2012, 08:45 AM
I was pleasantly surprised to see DeDuno bounce back from his last rough start, this guy has some serious stuff and I would love to see how he can improve his command a bit over the off-season and next spring while Anderson gets a little more time with him.

I still think alot of his success thus far is smoke and mirrors, but you can't deny that he has some impressive raw talent.

Brock Beauchamp
08-14-2012, 08:49 AM
I was pleasantly surprised to see DeDuno bounce back from his last rough start, this guy has some serious stuff and I would love to see how he can improve his command a bit over the off-season and next spring while Anderson gets a little more time with him.

I still think alot of his success thus far is smoke and mirrors, but you can't deny that he has some impressive raw talent.

Yep. He walks too many guys to have prolonged success in the league but the raw talent is there and hopefully, he'll harness it.

The biggest question I have is whether an increase in control will make his fastball more hittable. There are downsides to knowing where the ball is going to end up over the plate.

notoriousgod71
08-14-2012, 08:53 AM
Maybe Deduno is the new Daniel Cabrera?

ShaeTwins
08-14-2012, 09:28 AM
Every single Deduno start I expect it to be a complete disaster...and with one exception, they really haven't been. While that's certainly shocking, if Deduno wants to and is going to defy his own numbers time after time, I'm definitely going to be okay with trotting him out there every five days.

birdwatcher
08-14-2012, 09:46 AM
Deduno in 2012? Yes please. Deduno in 2013? No thank you.

davidjcampbell
08-14-2012, 09:53 AM
Yep. He walks too many guys to have prolonged success in the league but the raw talent is there and hopefully, he'll harness it.

I was at the game last night and in the top of the first when he walked Jackson and Fielder with not a hint of the strike zone or anything worth swinging at I thought the he was going to get rocked. Fortunately, the Tigers were not able to figure him out until the fourth time through the order and by then he was at ~90 pitches thrown he was going to get pulled soon no matter what happened.

I also agree with the sentiment that the Twins should ride this wave as long as possible. The alternatives are not all that attractive.

gil4
08-14-2012, 10:25 AM
... to replace Blackie (racist?)

It wasn't racist until you thought it was and said it anyway.

mikeee
08-14-2012, 12:29 PM
Quote from Doumit in this strib article: http://www.startribune.com/sports/twins/166056816.html

"
Monday was Ryan Doumit's first chance to catch Deduno in a game. "I've never seen anything like that before in my life," Doumit said. "I hope he stays with us. I know I never want to face him."

Brock Beauchamp
08-14-2012, 01:05 PM
The catcher comments from Deduno are classic.

John Bonnes
08-14-2012, 01:31 PM
I'll admit - I'm a little giddy thinking about people's opinions, including my own, if Deduno keeps up this success with these goofy numbers for the rest of the season. It would be a sabrmetric nightmare. Not to mention a "Twins Way" nightmare.

drivlikejehu
08-14-2012, 01:33 PM
I'd be OK with him as the 12th man, basically a long reliever and spot starter. He's probably better than Manship or the other fringe guys that might fit in that role. Control is something that realistically can improve for many pitchers but I'm skeptical with Deduno... he's 28 and it's basically been the same story his whole career.

John Bonnes
08-14-2012, 01:58 PM
How ironic would it be if the Twins, who value control over seemingly everything else, end up benefiting from Deduno someone becoming an effective starter.

crarko
08-14-2012, 02:11 PM
I'd be OK with him as the 12th man, basically a long reliever and spot starter. He's probably better than Manship or the other fringe guys that might fit in that role. Control is something that realistically can improve for many pitchers but I'm skeptical with Deduno... he's 28 and it's basically been the same story his whole career.

I don't think I'd want him to be a reliever. Too much risk coming in with someone already on base. But as a starter, keep running him out. Maybe hire a specialist for one offseason to work with him exclusively about reducing the walks. It either pays off or it doesn't.

3up3down
08-14-2012, 02:17 PM
deduno will eventually end up in the pen, his control isnt going to get better & the only pitch he can control is his slider/curve & with as many times as hes thrown it the last 5 starts his elbow is going to explode...put him in the pen where he has the reputation of being effectively wild & throw his out pitch 95% of the time & you have yourself a very effective reliever....but you cant survive in this league walking 5 or so guys every night..

Brock Beauchamp
08-14-2012, 02:23 PM
Sam Deduno + relief pitcher = disaster.

The guy can't consistently get the ball over the plate. He is ready to blow up with the big inning at any point. That kind of thing can be tempered over 5-7 innings as a starter but entering a close game in the fifth and giving up three runs essentially ends the game for the team. This isn't a Glen Perkins situation where he could drop a pitch and ramp up his fastball to be a more effective reliever than starter. Deduno's problems are entirely control-based and you can't have that in a reliever, except maybe a mop-up guy (and even then it's a danger, the only point of a mop-up guy is to prevent the big inning, Deduno's kryptonite).

Deduno will stick as a starter or not at all.

cr9617
08-14-2012, 02:27 PM
He's been fun to watch.
Realistically....He's 29 yo and getting his first taste of the big leagues. He walks more guys than he strikes out. That's a formula for disaster..guaranteed. The league will catch up to him via scouting reports, etc....they always do.

Monkeypaws
08-14-2012, 02:31 PM
The kind of pitchers that can walk batters and succeed are those who are just a tad wild, and with a lively fastball.

Two guys that walked a lot of batters, leading the league multiple times, were Nolan Ryan and Randy Johnson.

Now, their fastballs were on a different planet than Deduno's, which is why they are in the hall of fame and Deduno is getting a shot with a cellar dweller at 28.

Still, I think Dick and Bert touched on it last night, you can give up walks if they are spread out, and the other team isn't getting a lot of hits along with them.

Deduno, for now at least, is proving difficult to hit for opposing batters, which make the walks somewhat less problematic.

3up3down
08-14-2012, 04:26 PM
brock.........i am sure you watch baseball.. you just described over half the pen guys in the league, good stuff ,has trouble throwing strikes...he can walk the bases loaded & get out of it one inning a game.....he cant spread it over 5-6 innings, at some point in those innings it takes just 1 big hit to blow the game open.. the walks are gonna catch up to him, plus as a reliever he basically eliminates one pitch, he can throw his slider/curve for a strike he just cant throw it 100 times a game...but he can throw it 15 in one inning....

Brock Beauchamp
08-14-2012, 07:05 PM
brock.........i am sure you watch baseball.. you just described over half the pen guys in the league, good stuff ,has trouble throwing strikes...he can walk the bases loaded & get out of it one inning a game.....he cant spread it over 5-6 innings, at some point in those innings it takes just 1 big hit to blow the game open.. the walks are gonna catch up to him, plus as a reliever he basically eliminates one pitch, he can throw his slider/curve for a strike he just cant throw it 100 times a game...but he can throw it 15 in one inning....

You can't survive without a fastball. You just can't.

And that is one of Deduno's "problem" pitches. He won't make it as a reliever. We're not talking about a guy who "walks a few too many", we're talking about a guy who walks almost 7 per 9. That type of guy can't survive in the pen.

spideyo
08-14-2012, 11:30 PM
Deduno has everything going against him. He's 28, it's his first real shot at the majors. His previous teams mainly used him as a reliever and he's been thrown into the rotation. He can't locate his fastball. He walks more guys than he strikes out, and he is currently averaging 6.8 walks per 9 innings. If you saw that on paper, you'd assume he also had a crap ton of losses too. But he doesn't. He is 4-0, and the Twins are 6-1 in games he's started. Is it all smoke and mirrors? Maybe. But maybe, just maybe it IS possible that you can succeed without fitting the standard mold of a pitcher. Or maybe he'll collapse eventually. But at this point, what have we got to lose riding it out? As long as the smoke and mirrors keep fooling opposing hitters, what's the harm?

Assuming we maintain our current trajectory and don't sign any amazing FA pitchers *cough*greinke*cough*, I would pencil Deduno in to the rotation next year. If he is going to blow up, let him blow up early.

twinslover
08-14-2012, 11:49 PM
Deduno is a conundrum. His fastball is especially effective because he gets so much movement on it, which is also the reason he walks so many batters. He doesn't know where its going to end up, but neither does the batter. His breaking pitches can also be pretty nasty, but to logically explain his success is nearly impossible. Everything he does goes against conventional baseball wisdom and the "Twins Way" when it comes to pitching. I don't know what will happen long term, but as Bill Parcells once said, "you are what your record says you are." The question is, what record do you apply, his record in this handful of starts, or his career minor league record. I'm curious as hell to see what he does the rest of the year because he's shut down some pretty descent lineups this year.

Shane Wahl
08-15-2012, 12:29 AM
Deduno will be a good asset to have in AAA next year to be called upon to come up in this kind of role again (but hopefully only one start here and one start there).