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View Full Version : Is "Property of Twins" appropriate?



Thrylos
08-13-2012, 10:24 PM
Or was it just me?

Dick Bremer said this (oh so innocently) :

"At this point last season Delmon Young was still property of the Minnesota Twins... And even Jim Thome was a member of the Twins"

I've seen people fired for less. This was an awful thing for Bremer to say and I don't know whether the guy is a true bigot or not, but Delmon Young deserves at least an apology for that.

Just sayin...

Ultima Ratio
08-13-2012, 10:34 PM
Or was it just me?

He said this (oh so innocently) :

"At this point last season Delmon Young was still property of the Minnesota Twins... And even Jim Thome was a member of the Twins"

I've seen people fired for less. This was an awful thing for Bremer to say and I don't know whether the guy is a true bigot or not, but Delmon Young deserves at least an apology for that.

Just sayin...
Keep looking...

Badsmerf
08-13-2012, 10:36 PM
Or was it just me?

He said this (oh so innocently) :

"At this point last season Delmon Young was still property of the Minnesota Twins... And even Jim Thome was a member of the Twins"

I've seen people fired for less. This was an awful thing for Bremer to say and I don't know whether the guy is a true bigot or not, but Delmon Young deserves at least an apology for that.

Just sayin...

Really dude?

Mchans24
08-13-2012, 10:36 PM
If Delmon were a white man would you have the same complaint? quit being so sensitive.....this is a non-issue.

Mchans24
08-13-2012, 10:38 PM
I call for a one week suspension of your posting rights and an apology to the board and Dick.

Ultima Ratio
08-13-2012, 10:38 PM
I literally joined this forum ....

Kudos and welcome.

Bark's Lounge
08-13-2012, 10:47 PM
Thrylos, good job. I'd buy your next drink if I was in the bar you are at right now or I'd buy you your next hit of crack... either one. Defending a racist in the name of racism... that is new and refreshing. F-Bomb - where do we go from here?

ashburyjohn
08-13-2012, 10:53 PM
As an exercise in trolling, it gets a C-minus. Unless someone else types quicker, mine is only response #9 in half an hour.

deanlambrecht
08-13-2012, 10:54 PM
So, let's see. When you disagree with what someone is saying, as thus far all of you obviously do here, you can criticize the argument on the merits, or you can attack the person him/herself. Which do you think is both more effective and is the mode of argument accepted by civilization for thousands of years? (I know, it's hard to tell these days, as standard argument in this nation has become an absolute travesty, but still...).

So, I disagree with what thrylos is saying, but I can at least acknowledge that his argument has some merit. Indeed, no one here would argue that persons of African descent in this nation could reasonably take umbrage at being referred to as "property". Right? That seems to be a settled notion, given our nation's terrible history regarding chattel slavery.

However, I disagree that Bremer was referring to that. It's not unusual, for instance, to see all sorts of folks wearing clothing items (especially shirts) with phrases such as "Property of the Minnesota Vikings," etc. It's actually rather common, and it's an accepted colloquialism. Frankly, it probably should not be. The phrase has a terrible connotation to it, and could be rightfully offensive to any number of people. But it is what it is and it was a minor mistake for Bremer to have said it, even though it was most likely unintentional and not freighted with the meaning that thrylos attributes it.

So settle down. [Edit to correct: Agree] Disagree with the idea, not the person. This item in particular wasn't terribly hard to deconstruct, and the whole forum will be a much better place for all if we stick to the merits of an argument and refrain from personal attacks.

glunn
08-13-2012, 11:05 PM
I wish that someone would move this thread to some more appropriate section of the website.

Ultima Ratio
08-13-2012, 11:06 PM
What...the....hell GPA? Horrible, just horrible.

crarko
08-13-2012, 11:07 PM
I wish that someone would move this thread to some more appropriate section of the website.

I believe that's called /dev/null.

The Greatest Poster Alive
08-13-2012, 11:08 PM
What...the....hell GPA? Horrible, just horrible.

This thread? Yeah.

Saul Goodman
08-13-2012, 11:19 PM
Baby Got Downs

gil4
08-13-2012, 11:28 PM
Or was it just me?

He said this (oh so innocently) :

"At this point last season Delmon Young was still property of the Minnesota Twins... And even Jim Thome was a member of the Twins"

I've seen people fired for less. This was an awful thing for Bremer to say and I don't know whether the guy is a true bigot or not, but Delmon Young deserves at least an apology for that.

Just sayin...

So this shirt is racist?

http://tsa.imageg.net/graphics/product_images/pMLB2-9384361dt.jpg

Sorry, it's a common way to refer to the players. Maybe the tone of voice gave more meaning than text can convey, but my guess is you just heard something where there was nothing.

There is enough real racism around. It's a serious charge, and you had better be damned sure you are right before you start throwing around accusations.

jimbo92107
08-13-2012, 11:29 PM
Or was it just me?

He said this (oh so innocently) :

"At this point last season Delmon Young was still property of the Minnesota Twins... And even Jim Thome was a member of the Twins"

I've seen people fired for less. This was an awful thing for Bremer to say and I don't know whether the guy is a true bigot or not, but Delmon Young deserves at least an apology for that.

Just sayin...

Nonsense. I've never sniffed a hint of racism in anything Bremer has said. The word "property" is often used when referring to a player that is under contract. It has no racial connotations in the context of a discussion about baseball.

Frankly, you owe Dick Bremer an apology for falsely or foolishly calling him a racist. Real racists are very easy to spot. Bremer ain't one of 'em.

The Greatest Poster Alive
08-13-2012, 11:31 PM
So i clicked the OP's blog... and he also harassed multiple members of the Twins org on twitter over this egregious offense.

TheLeviathan
08-13-2012, 11:31 PM
Threads like this is where a forum decides whether it wants to be the Strib comments section or a place of actual intelligence. Should be fun to watch....

Ultima Ratio
08-13-2012, 11:54 PM
From Etymologyonline:
property (http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=property&allowed_in_frame=0) http://www.etymonline.com/graphics/dictionary.gif (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=property)c.1300, "nature, quality," later "possession" (a sense rare before 17c.), from an Anglo-Fr. modification of O.Fr. propriete (12c., Fr. propreté), from L. proprietatem (nom. proprietas) "ownership, property, propriety," lit. "special character" (a loan-translation of Gk. idioma), noun of quality from proprius "one's own, special" (see proper (http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=proper&allowed_in_frame=0)). Propertied "holding property" is from 1760. Hot property "sensation, a success" is from 1958.

"One's own" as in the Twins' own player is appropriate. The word "own" in this context also can imply belonging or property... <<<gasp>>>. Catch any other dog whistles today?

TwinsGuy55422
08-14-2012, 12:09 AM
I believe this same poster is the guy who earlier this year went on a rant about how Gardy should be fired for "abandoning ship" to attend his daughter's college graduation. The guy clearly likes to seek out drama where there is none. It's probably best not to give the poster the satisfaction of getting the reaction he is looking for.

gil4
08-14-2012, 12:22 AM
The guy clearly likes to seek out drama where there is none.

He has 1,500 posts. He has two comments that are off the deep end. I think we can live with that ratio.

LaBombo
08-14-2012, 12:24 AM
Probably a bad attempt at humor?

If it isn't, then it's also NOT further proof that the mantle of racism in America continues to pass from the ugly, meaningful kind against minorities to the increasingly more common kind perpetrated by concern trolls like this imbecile trying to create an issue where there obviously isn't one.

SpiritofVodkaDave
08-14-2012, 01:00 AM
Perhaps this is the 12 pack of Yuengling talking, but sweet merciful crap. This might be the worst (non troll) thread I have ever seen in the history of the internet. I wouldn't normally respond to such dribble but I want to have a post in this historically awful topic/thread.

Bonnes, honestly I don't even know why you bothered to edit the message to "encourage civil discourse", you already kept the one thread around of "are the Twins front office racists" which was wrong on all levels, but now to encourage a discussion based on this bull****? I think you are a solid blogger, and a good topic starter, but c'mon man, this is just ridiculous, and frankly a little worrisome that not only would you let this garbage stay on the board, but would somewhat encourage such talk.

John Bonnes
08-14-2012, 01:03 AM
Just got home and saw this. I'm going to make a quit comment on this and then close the thread overnight, because I don't think we can monitor it, and it seems to need monitoring. We can get back to it tomorrow if necessary.

I know thryloss, who started this post, is sensitive on this subject. I like to think I'm sensitive too and have been accused on this board of being overly sensitive or of searching for racism in places there isn't any.

As has been well established, "property" is a common phrase. I can see where referring to a person of one race one way and another race another way could raise eyebrows. I also understand that it could mean nothing at all. (Sunday, while running with my daugher and my dog, I mixed up their names. I'm pretty sure it meant nothing, but it could certainly be interpreted as meaning something by someone who was looking for something like that. I'd hope not to be criticized for it.)

I've changed the title of the thread because titles can act like headlines, and I thought changing the headline might promote more civil discourse. I'm also deleting a couple of posts that were eithet attacks or crossed the line in my opinion.

Brock Beauchamp
08-14-2012, 07:18 AM
I like to call stuff like this "creeping racism". Should Bremer have said it? Probably not. Should he be called a racist for saying it? Most definitely not. That term is common usage in the sports world. It's a mildly insulting phrase to use on any player... More so if that player is black, probably. I'm not black and I'm not Delmon Young so that's not my call to make.

But calling someone "property" casually is one thing while outright calling someone a racist for it is another thing entirely. If this thread had been presented as opening discourse on why it might not be okay to use a term like that when referring to a player in 2012 America, it could have led to interesting discussion. But that's not what happened. A term like that is probably more of an indictment on society itself, not Bremer, and calling Dick a racist for it is out of line (as is directly insulting the poster who did it). There is a Report Post function on the forum. Instead of insulting the poster, report him or challenge his point civilly instead of resorting to petty insults.

That's my take on it, anyway.