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View Full Version : Mastrionni 2B trial?



Riverbrian
08-13-2012, 08:21 PM
Mastrionni has performed when he gets the rare start.

So I'd like to see Gardy give Mastrionni a start at 2B. What the Hay.

After Nishi can we seriously be concerned about defense anymore. Worth a shot.

Thrylos
08-13-2012, 08:31 PM
well... they might need another OF next season. Unfortunately the interim GM missed the chance to trade Span before he was hurt again. Hopefully he will be gone this off-season. The manager of the Millennium on the radio has talked about Parmelee being his RF next season. That scares me (but he has started Doumit at LF as well so...). They will need another OF and not sure if Hicks and Arcia will be ready yet.

Riverbrian
08-13-2012, 08:35 PM
Mastro can still be that OF. A little position flex can help him and the squad. He's playing well... I'd like to see him get some more playing time. Some innings at 2B might be worth a shot.

twinsnorth49
08-13-2012, 08:39 PM
well... they might need another OF next season. Unfortunately the interim GM missed the chance to trade Span before he was hurt again. Hopefully he will be gone this off-season. The manager of the Millennium on the radio has talked about Parmelee being his RF next season. That scares me (but he has started Doumit at LF as well so...). They will need another OF and not sure if Hicks and Arcia will be ready yet.

Fix the record player, it's broken.

crarko
08-13-2012, 08:53 PM
Mastrionni has performed when he gets the rare start.

So I'd like to see Gardy give Mastrionni a start at 2B. What the Hay.

After Nishi can we seriously be concerned about defense anymore. Worth a shot.

Absolutely. Take a chance and see if it pays off.

Craig in MN
08-13-2012, 10:37 PM
He hasn't really played second base in 5 years. He's got a very mixed minor league record as is. Why not take another 6 weeks to let him show if he can be a decent MLB 4th outfielder? If he can do that, then you've got some idea if he can play a role next year. Why set him up for failure? Put him in a position to actually succeed. Nishioka's failure doesn't mean you start throwing guys in spots they aren't suited for.

crarko
08-13-2012, 10:58 PM
He hasn't really played second base in 5 years. He's got a very mixed minor league record as is. Why not take another 6 weeks to let him show if he can be a decent MLB 4th outfielder? If he can do that, then you've got some idea if he can play a role next year. Why set him up for failure? Put him in a position to actually succeed. Nishioka's failure doesn't mean you start throwing guys in spots they aren't suited for.

I guess our working assumption is that he's already shown he can be a decent MLB 4th outfielder. There may wind up being a few of those with this team, though.

What we're really asking for is a way to get him more plate appearances and see how that goes, and playing second is a way to do that. And it's a position that has been identified as upgradeable. Much like the Plouffe at third experiment. And Mastroianni has certainly displayed the speed and range that might make him pretty good at it.

Riverbrian
08-13-2012, 11:09 PM
He hasn't really played second base in 5 years. He's got a very mixed minor league record as is. Why not take another 6 weeks to let him show if he can be a decent MLB 4th outfielder? If he can do that, then you've got some idea if he can play a role next year. Why set him up for failure? Put him in a position to actually succeed. Nishioka's failure doesn't mean you start throwing guys in spots they aren't suited for.

I do agree with you. I'm normally too picky about defense to really be serious about something like this.

However, he's taking grounders daily for a reason. I thnk it's worth a look see. If he handles 2B a little. He can do a little work over the winter and into spring and you have a 4th OF'er with 2B ability. If he shows he can't handle it. He can stop wasting his time taking grounders daily.

Far fetched idea... I get that... But... I'm thinking his production at the plate and on the base paths might be more than what we are currently getting at 2B.

Skip Schumacher pulled it off. The Cardinals don't seem to be so positionally rigid as other teams are. Things seem to work for them.

John Bonnes
08-14-2012, 01:11 AM
I have trouble believing that Mastroianni is ever going to hit enough to be a decent corner outfielder, but he could hit well enough to be a decent second baseman, especially in this organization. Why not try him at 2B? Who is to say why he was moved in the first place?

SpiritofVodkaDave
08-14-2012, 01:30 AM
Why not try him at 2B? Who is to say why he was moved in the first place?

I'm guessing the Blue Jays could say why he was moved in the first place, seeing how he hasn't played 10 games at 2B since low A ball 5 yars ago.

glunn
08-14-2012, 02:03 AM
As usual, it seems to me that Brian's idea is an excellent one.

Brock Beauchamp
08-14-2012, 06:49 AM
I have trouble believing that Mastroianni is ever going to hit enough to be a decent corner outfielder, but he could hit well enough to be a decent second baseman, especially in this organization. Why not try him at 2B? Who is to say why he was moved in the first place?

At this point, I don't see why they shouldn't give him a shot at second. If he fails, so be it. If he succeeds, he's the new Denny Hocking. While we loved to lambast Hocking back in the day, that type of player has a lot of value to a team.

Riverbrian
08-14-2012, 07:09 AM
Why not try him at 2B? Who is to say why he was moved in the first place?

I'm guessing the Blue Jays could say why he was moved in the first place, seeing how he hasn't played 10 games at 2B since low A ball 5 yars ago.

There are a couple of things that give me pause. Why did the Jays move him? That's one. The other is Why hasn't Gardy tried him at 2B yet?

On the other side of that... Why did the Jays let him go? He can clearly play this game. The Jays may have missed.

zenser
08-14-2012, 08:44 AM
On the other side of that... Why did the Jays let him go? He can clearly play this game. The Jays may have missed.

Boston was probably saying the same thing in the 2003 season after we released Ortiz so we could pick up Jose Morban in the rule 5 draft.

nicksaviking
08-14-2012, 09:19 AM
Perhaps the Jays moved him because his speed was such an asset in the OF, something that the Twins currently have plenty of throughout their system, and something the Jays were lacking, considering that Adam Lind was manning a corner spot at the time.

SpiritofVodkaDave
08-14-2012, 09:26 AM
I have trouble believing that Mastroianni is ever going to hit enough to be a decent corner outfielder, but he could hit well enough to be a decent second baseman, especially in this organization. Why not try him at 2B? Who is to say why he was moved in the first place?

At this point, I don't see why they shouldn't give him a shot at second. If he fails, so be it. If he succeeds, he's the new Denny Hocking. While we loved to lambast Hocking back in the day, that type of player has a lot of value to a team.

Denny Hocking was terrible defensively and has the 2nd lowest WAR in the history of the franchise.

I was a fan of the Hock, but he isn't someone we should try to replicate moving forward.

SpiritofVodkaDave
08-14-2012, 09:27 AM
Perhaps the Jays moved him because his speed was such an asset in the OF, something that the Twins currently have plenty of throughout their system, and something the Jays were lacking, considering that Adam Lind was manning a corner spot at the time.
That is a huge stretch, he was moved to OF full time 5 years ago when he was still in A ball. If a guy can legitimately play the MI teams won't move them to the OF.

I'd like nothing more then for him to be a legit option at 2B, but the fact that they moved him from the position in low A ball tells me all I need to know.

Do I think he can fill in at 2B from time to time or if there is a PH situation? Sure, but he isn't an everyday, or even close to everyday option IMO.

Also apparently he has played 1 inning at 2B this season for the Twins, anyone remember when that was?

James
08-14-2012, 09:28 AM
DickBert were talking about him during the game last night (for decent enough reasons). They mentioned that he takes infield practice at 2B during batting practice. So, it sounds like he's making sure that the team knows he can play there. How well he plays there, I don't know.

I'm guessing that Toronto probably moved him because of his speed, they thought he would be valuable in the outfield. I think he is valuable there, but I would also like to see him try out 2B a little to see if he can handle it in a game situation. If for nothing else but to see if you can play him in some sort of super utility role. If he can get to that point, great. If he can't play 2B, then you still have a 4th OF/bench guy. There's not a ton of risk in trying it out.

ShaeTwins
08-14-2012, 09:33 AM
As long as we have Span in the organization, there's really no reason for Mastroianni to be in the outfield...and lo and behold, he hasn't been. Our options at 2B are Casilla and Carroll. I like Casilla defensively, but he just can't hit, and Carroll is such a middle of the road type player both offensively and defensively that he wouldn't be missed from the lineup. Just as there's no reason to put Maestro in the outfield when Willingham and Span aren't DHing/injured, there's no reason we shouldn't at least give him a series at 2B and see what he can do. The worst thing that happens is that he stinks, but at least we would know for sure and could have his bat and speed in the lineup every day if it did pan out.

Jeff P
08-14-2012, 09:35 AM
Yea it is worth a shot after Span comes back and certainly after Rochester is done when I would think that Parmelee would be recalled. Moving Mastroanni would allow him to both get AB and see if he can play second base, as well as free up space in RF for Parmelee to get some more at bats.

stringer bell
08-14-2012, 09:45 AM
There is not much to lose, but a) do any of you think that Mastro's bat will be suffiecient if he played every day? b) There probably was a reason why Mastroianni was moved to the OF and likely it was something about the way he played 2B. But I'm sure he could play second better than Nishi or Cuddy.

SpiritofVodkaDave
08-14-2012, 09:48 AM
But I'm sure he could play second better than Nishi or Cuddy.
Not exactly a ringing endorsement!

Nishi/Cuddyer at 2B last season was a reason why our defense was so putrid.
I like Mastro, but let's not kid ourselves, he isn't exactly Soriano in his prime with the bat, if the guy was hitting for a .850 OPS with 25 HR then maybe you can live with crappy defense at 2B, but I doubt he will hit enough to justify having such an issue defensively in the MI.

With that said, let him get a few games at 2B to see what he has, just don't expect him to be anything better then below average at best.

James
08-14-2012, 10:03 AM
But I'm sure he could play second better than Nishi or Cuddy.
Not exactly a ringing endorsement!

Nishi/Cuddyer at 2B last season was a reason why our defense was so putrid.
I like Mastro, but let's not kid ourselves, he isn't exactly Soriano in his prime with the bat, if the guy was hitting for a .850 OPS with 25 HR then maybe you can live with crappy defense at 2B, but I doubt he will hit enough to justify having such an issue defensively in the MI.

With that said, let him get a few games at 2B to see what he has, just don't expect him to be anything better then below average at best.
It's definitely a trade off. No, he's not going to be Soriano, but does he have to be?

I think the comparison is how is he vs. Casilla? How much better on offense does he have to be to make up for (speculative) worse defense?

SpiritofVodkaDave
08-14-2012, 10:07 AM
I think the comparison is how is he vs. Casilla? How much better on offense does he have to be to make up for (speculative) worse defense?

He has to be a ton better on offense, and their is no speculative about it. Casilla is a damn solid MI, Mastro is not.
You can hide a poor fielder at RF/LF/1B and even 3B. You absolutely can't hide one for SS/2B/CF.

For a pitch to contact team like the Twins you really can't be rolling out bad defenders at key positions.

crarko
08-14-2012, 10:15 AM
I think the comparison is how is he vs. Casilla? How much better on offense does he have to be to make up for (speculative) worse defense?

He has to be a ton better on offense, and their is no speculative about it. Casilla is a damn solid MI, Mastro is not.
You can hide a poor fielder at RF/LF/1B and even 3B. You absolutely can't hide one for SS/2B/CF.

For a pitch to contact team like the Twins you really can't be rolling out bad defenders at key positions.

Look at it this way. If they try it for a week or two and it fails, as you seem to think it will, that will end our discussions on the subject and we'll all be free to move on to all the more pressing issues in the Universe.

CDog
08-14-2012, 10:43 AM
Also apparently he has played 1 inning at 2B this season for the Twins, anyone remember when that was?

Was the day game finale of the White Sox series about three weeks ago. I remember I was working from home so I had the game on but no sound, so I didn't get to hear if there was an explanation of why. Seemed like he just came in as a defensive replacement...no injury or pinch-hit or moving someone around. So it was weird, and that's part of why I remember it happening. I don't think he had a ball hit to him.

Jeff P
08-14-2012, 10:45 AM
I think the comparison is how is he vs. Casilla? How much better on offense does he have to be to make up for (speculative) worse defense?

He has to be a ton better on offense, and their is no speculative about it. Casilla is a damn solid MI, Mastro is not.
You can hide a poor fielder at RF/LF/1B and even 3B. You absolutely can't hide one for SS/2B/CF.

For a pitch to contact team like the Twins you really can't be rolling out bad defenders at key positions.

Look at it this way. If they try it for a week or two and it fails, as you seem to think it will, that will end our discussions on the subject and we'll all be free to move on to all the more pressing issues in the Universe.

Yea I think most would agree that chances of success are pretty low. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KX5jNnDMfxA

Ok hopefully better than one in a million, in any case I don't see what the harm is. The comment about the defensive dropoff to Casilla is a good one, but I doubt he will be back anyway, this might be a comparison to Dozier as he is the one who may be losing at bats next year if this does work out.

jeffk
08-14-2012, 12:27 PM
There's been some comments on TwinkieTown about moving Mastroianni to 2B, which is actually his original position. Given the glut in the outfield and his fairly impressive season, is this a good time to give it a try in terms of planning for the future? If he continues to hit and can handle it, you've plugged a huge hole with cheap, team-controlled player for several seasons. He could be the Plouffe of 2B. If it doesn't work... what's to lose?

John Bonnes
08-14-2012, 01:15 PM
At this point, I'm so desperate for production out of 2B, just about anything is in play. Even this. That's the sad truth.

YourHouseIsMyHouse
08-14-2012, 01:29 PM
An .800+ OPS in the middle infield? Pinch me, I must be dreaming! I don't expect him to keep stay above .800 obviously, but I have long thought the same thing and I think it's worth a try. He played there once this season for the Twins and has a little work in the minors there too. If he can manage a .960 Fielding % while staying fast and hitting well count me in.

John Bonnes
08-14-2012, 01:38 PM
An .800+ OPS in the middle infield? Pinch me, I must be dreaming! I don't expect him to keep stay above .800 obviously, but I have long thought the same thing and I think it's worth a try. He played there once this season for the Twins and has a little work in the minors there too. If he can manage a .960 Fielding % while staying fast and hitting well count me in.

800 OPS nothing - if he can manage a .340 OBP and turn a DP, I'll be thrilled.

TheLeviathan
08-14-2012, 05:20 PM
So when I posted this a few weeks ago....everyone just didn't know who Mastro was or what?

YourHouseIsMyHouse
08-14-2012, 06:42 PM
So when I posted this a few weeks ago....everyone just didn't know who Mastro was or what?

RiverBrian is clearly not the first person to think about it.

TheLeviathan
08-14-2012, 07:15 PM
So when I posted this a few weeks ago....everyone just didn't know who Mastro was or what?

RiverBrian is clearly not the first person to think about it.

Was just joking because we're rehashing pretty much the same convo....

USAFChief
08-15-2012, 03:04 AM
Obviously haven't seen Mastro play 2b, but my gut tells me if he was able to play the position at an acceptable level, he would never have been moved to the OF in the first place. Capable middle infielders aren't moved to the OF very often.

diehardtwinsfan
08-15-2012, 08:51 AM
Obviously haven't seen Mastro play 2b, but my gut tells me if he was able to play the position at an acceptable level, he would never have been moved to the OF in the first place. Capable middle infielders aren't moved to the OF very often.

yeah pretty much this... the other thing is that what he's doing with the bat is being done in a very small sample size. Some guys can be decent hitters when they aren't playing every day, but are pretty lousy when they are.

SpiritofVodkaDave
08-15-2012, 08:57 AM
Obviously haven't seen Mastro play 2b, but my gut tells me if he was able to play the position at an acceptable level, he would never have been moved to the OF in the first place. Capable middle infielders aren't moved to the OF very often.

Especially not in low A ball.

AAA or the majors if the team is currently stacked with MI at the major league level? Sure, but in low A ball there is zero reason to unless the guy just doesn't have the ability.

Also apparently he takes grounders before every game, basically he appears to be an emergency option at 2B (much like Cuddyer last year). It only takes one missed double play or botched play a game to basically reverse any sort of good will you did offensively.

Reginald Maudling's Shin
08-15-2012, 10:34 AM
What is the urgency here? Mastroianni is a good 4th outfielder, not a guy whose bat needs to be in the lineup every day.

Just wait a couple years until Eddie Rosario is ready.

cr9617
08-15-2012, 10:54 AM
Throwing junk at the wall and hoping something sticks.

Riverbrian
08-15-2012, 10:59 AM
What is the urgency here? Mastroianni is a good 4th outfielder, not a guy whose bat needs to be in the lineup every day.

Just wait a couple years until Eddie Rosario is ready.

I wouldn't call it urgency... Call it a little experiment... I think Mastro has shown in his limited playing time that he can play. I'd like to see him get some more at bats. Toss him in at 2nd and see if it works. He doesn't have to be the starting 2B from here on out... It can be become another option for the team and him and that's all.

Besides... If... The organization OF situation is as strong as others are saying. He's about to be over run by Arcia, Hicks, Benson, Kepler, Buxton in the near future. A little 2b ability could help dodge that bullet.

If he works out and I admit the clues don't suggest that he will work out. It's a long shot... He was moved by Toronto for a reason and Gardy hasn't utilized him yet. Those are clues but let's see... Give him a game or two... If it doesn't work... Move on...

I wouldn't do it against a pennent chasing team like the Tigers but against the Mariners... A team that is chasing nothing like the Twins... Why not... I'd like to see him start a game or two in Seattle this weekend.

The guy has done alright thus far... His Speed is legit and he can hit. 2012 should allow for some experimentation with a player like Mastro.

Craig in MN
08-15-2012, 11:45 AM
Darin Mastroianni hasn't shown that he is a capable 4th OF. Not in 100 ABs. He is great defensively, but his minor league track record is not exactly stellar. If it was, the Twins' wouldn't have stuck him at AA to start the year, and they wouldn't have wasted time with Clete Thomas and Eric Komatsu first. THAT is why the Blue Jays didn't care to keep him around. Because one dimensional players are a dime a dozen. He is playing way over his head right now, and if he can keep that up...if he's really turned a corner....then they've got something. Do people really think he's established himself as anything yet?

I don't care how many OF prospects they have coming up...they are still going to need a 4th OF, and they aren't going to bring the prospects up to sit on the bench 5 days a week. And having a decent 4th OF gives them a cushion for when they think about trading Span or Revere in the offseason. Let them see if Mastroanni is that. Otherwise, Revere has to be that. Or they need to get a newer version of Erik Komatsu. How exciting is that? Right now I'm sort of excited about the idea of a Parmalee/Mastroianni platoon next year in RF. What's wrong with that? If they are going to try putting any one in a harder position defensively, it should be Parmalee. If that's the case, then they need a defensive replacement there.....who could that be? Hey Mastroianni fits the bill perfectly, so far. Lets try that out!