PDA

View Full Version : Trade Parmelee?



Hammond2ndHome
08-08-2012, 08:21 PM
I know this may be a bit outside the box, but what about using Parmelee as trade bait for a 2B or pitcher? I am a big supporter of Morneau and believe he can continue his play as of late into the future. Yes, I understand the history of injury, but he is an MVP and is a huge part of Twins lineup.

But consider for a moment if Morneau gives us 4 more good years and Vargas ends up to be a pretty damn good prospect as well. I don't think it is that crazy to see if Parmelee can be used to bring in someone the Twins desperately need.

drjim
08-08-2012, 08:28 PM
I know this may be a bit outside the box, but what about using Parmelee as trade bait for a 2B or pitcher? I am a big supporter of Morneau and believe he can continue his play as of late into the future. Yes, I understand the history of injury, but he is an MVP and is a huge part of Twins lineup.

But consider for a moment if Morneau gives us 4 more good years and Vargas ends up to be a pretty damn good prospect as well. I don't think it is that crazy to see if Parmelee can be used to bring in someone the Twins desperately need.

Parmelee has minimal trade value.

jokin
08-08-2012, 08:31 PM
It will take a major selling job to market a plentiful commodity like AAA/AAAA 1B in order to find a scarce commodity like quality pitching.

Laroosh1
08-08-2012, 08:37 PM
Chris Colabello is in the wings. He is on pace for 20 hrs and 100 RBI season.

Hammond2ndHome
08-08-2012, 08:40 PM
OK, I should have been more specific. I don't think he alone would bring back someone Twins need - I was thinking he would be part of some package. But overall, what I am hearing lately is how Twins need to get him in the lineup somehow bc he is tearing up AAA. Isn't he about the best trade chip Twins have right now?

ScottyB
08-08-2012, 08:42 PM
It's not such a far-fetched idea. I think that Sano eventually moves to first, with Plouffe staying at 3rd. But I wouldn't think he would bring back much - about the same as the Paul Sorento trade in '92. Sorento showed power as well, but was unproven like Parmelee. For Sorento we got Oscar Munoz - 10 games for the Twins and Curt Leskanic - a journeyman pitcher who never pitched for the Twins, but spent 11 years in the majors as a mediocre middle reliever.

diehardtwinsfan
08-08-2012, 08:47 PM
I guess I question why it is people think he'd have little value. He's a 24 year old absolutely destroying AAA... He struggled earlier this year, but also hit ML pitching nicely last September.

That said, the only way they trade him is if they extend Morneau. Extending the aging vet while trading the prospect is generally not the wisest of moves.

jctwins
08-08-2012, 08:54 PM
I guess I question why it is people think he'd have little value. He's a 24 year old absolutely destroying AAA... He struggled earlier this year, but also hit ML pitching nicely last September.

That said, the only way they trade him is if they extend Morneau. Extending the aging vet while trading the prospect is generally not the wisest of moves.

You mean like Billy traded the unneeded Ramos when they had Mauer locked up?

Thrylos
08-08-2012, 08:58 PM
I just don't get those kind of threads...

Trade 24 year olds Parmelee and Revere and keep 30 some year old Morneau and Span (ok he is younger) in a 99 and 90+ loss team 2 years in a row?

Nuts

drjim
08-08-2012, 08:59 PM
Beating up AAA pitching is all good, but I see little reason to rate him as anything more than a platoon bat with a questionable glove at this point. That is not being traded for young pitching or a middle infielder. Might be able to move him for a veteran pitcher with a contract that the trading team might want to clear.

I do think he should get into the lineup to see what he has, but I don't see him as a first division regular at a corner.

Top Gun
08-08-2012, 09:06 PM
Ramos has done nottin.

jctwins
08-08-2012, 09:11 PM
Ramos has done nottin.

You mean besides provide depth behind an older player with an injury history? You're right. Trade Parmalee and extend Morneau.

IdahoPilgrim
08-08-2012, 09:48 PM
I applaud out-of-the-box thinking, but I would not trade Parmelee at this time. Morneau has one year left on his contract; after that, who knows what happens. I think Parmelee is the heir apparent for the position, and if Morneau goes down, or becomes a free agent, we're going to wish we had him. I know he doesn't like this idea, but I think Morneau's future is more of a DH anyway.

Badsmerf
08-08-2012, 09:51 PM
Parmelee doesn't have enough pedigree to be traded for anything. Right now is a guy who is having a break-out season or a nice hot streak in AAA. GM's wouldn't trade Kris Benson and his wife for that, maybe just Kris Benson, but certainly not his wife with him.

stringer bell
08-08-2012, 09:53 PM
I get the snark and sarcasm. The thing to do is to trade older, more expensive players. I can't ever say I've been a huge Morneau guy, but he has raised his value substantially in the last six weeks and would stand to raise it even more with a productive end to the season--something he hasn't done in a long time, if ever. This would mean risking that Parmelee can be a league average hitter at first. But if the club could get a very good return for Morneau, the Twins have to do it. They are in a bit of a box for salary and they really don't have a lot more than Parmelee that would figure to contribute from the minors.

twinstalker
08-08-2012, 10:30 PM
Chris Colabello is in the wings. He is on pace for 20 hrs and 100 RBI season.
Wow, if you had stopped after the first sentence, I would have contacted you to compliment your sense of humor and ask if you have a blog.

cr9617
08-08-2012, 10:35 PM
I guess I question why it is people think he'd have little value. He's a 24 year old absolutely destroying AAA... He struggled earlier this year, but also hit ML pitching nicely last September.

That said, the only way they trade him is if they extend Morneau. Extending the aging vet while trading the prospect is generally not the wisest of moves.

In more than 2,446 minor league at bats, his his hitting line is .271/.362/.812. That's why he has little trade value.

September callup means pretty much nothing. But if you are going to point it out as a positive, It's only fair to also mention how badly he struggled with the Twins early this season.

twinstalker
08-08-2012, 10:55 PM
Trading Parmelee is interesting. I don't think it's a possibility for the Twins to consider keeping Morneau, but Mauer and Doumit could fill the 1B role with Willingham, if they're intent on keeping him. Arcia, Hicks, and Herrmann provide depth at the positions affected.

But this would only make sense for a team that has excess pitching or middle infield and needs a 1B who's both second division and still better than their other options (because Parmelee is not a first-division 1B). That excludes almost everybody, because almost everybody has someone who projects as well as Parmelee. One team that does make some sense is Baltimore, who has Jonathan Schoop as a AA 2B. He's seemingly had a down year, but he basically skipped through loA and hiA in 2011 and is two levels ahead of Eddie Rosario at the same age.

You keep Morneau for a year, trade Parmelee for Schoop, let Schoop start at AA next year and move to AAA midseason, and hope he finds his loA stroke of 2011. That's probably the best-case scenario with trading Parmelee.

It probably makes more sense to get what you can for Morneau while he's still yours and let Parmelee, who's definitely better than he had projected to be (prior to September, 2011), take over at 1B. You might even get a guy like Schoop for Morneau and save $14 million while securing 1B and catcher both for 2014 and beyond.

Nick Nelson
08-08-2012, 11:16 PM
Rebuilding teams don't trade the cheap, young versions of their older players. Threads like this and the "Trade Revere" one are incredibly pointless.

Mchans24
08-08-2012, 11:27 PM
I applaud out-of-the-box thinking, but I would not trade Parmelee at this time. Morneau has one year left on his contract; after that, who knows what happens. I think Parmelee is the heir apparent for the position, and if Morneau goes down, or becomes a free agent, we're going to wish we had him. I know he doesn't like this idea, but I think Morneau's future is more of a DH anyway.


Why is Morneau a DH? He is a very good defensive first baseman that has struggled when he did DH? People seem to forget before the concussions this guy was an iron man! If the concussions are behind him you can bet he will play 150 games a year!! He is by far the toughest guy in this team and the twins need his mentality in the clubhouse more so than Joe "no emotion" Mauer!

twinstalker
08-09-2012, 12:14 AM
Rebuilding teams don't trade the cheap, young versions of their older players...
Smart ones don't. Smart ones who know they're in a rebuilding phase don't. We're talking Twins. What's your point? :banghead:

(hopefully obviously not a jab at you)

And besides, why not trade cheap and young for cheap and younger if your needs are better addressed? In this case, I don't think Parmelee's worth very much, so it's probably impossible to make a good trade.

Brock Beauchamp
08-09-2012, 06:10 AM
Rebuilding teams don't trade the cheap, young versions of their older players. Threads like this and the "Trade Revere" one are incredibly pointless.

The key difference is that I was advocating a trade of both Revere and Span based on what the market might be for each player, not because I want to keep around the old guard.

USAFChief
08-09-2012, 06:26 AM
Rebuilding teams don't trade the cheap, young versions of their older players. Threads like this and the "Trade Revere" one are incredibly pointless.


Sometimes they do, if they think that some combination of the following is in play:

-they think they can be competitive while the "older players" are still around,
-the think the younger version isn't really as good as the older version,
-they find the return higher for the younger version, and thus are better able to fill other holes
-payroll space isn't a critical factor

It's not in any way a given that trading Span is smarter than trading Revere. It might be, then again, it might not be. What's pretty clear, however, is that they have 2 people--maybe more, given their coming crop of minor league OFers--capable of playing CF in 2013, have needs in other areas, and one of them should be used in an attempt to fill those needs. "Which one" isn't as clear. Span is signed to a pretty decent contract, and IMO is probably the better player for at least 2013-4. Revere is cost controlled, and if he continues to hit .300, might end up the better player sooner than later.


I'd say the same situation applies with Morneau/Parmalee. One should probably go. Which one is less clear, or at the least, more a matter of opinion than fact.

You can argue money is a factor, and it is, but IMO money shouldn't really have a great deal of influence this winter, nor should money hamper the Twins a great deal over the next few years. There is really no reason they can't support a larger payroll ($120m for sure) then the present one, and there is payroll coming off the books and hopefully, young position player talent either here or available soon (Plouffe, Dozier, minor league OFers, Gibson, Hendriks, etc).

Cap'n Piranha
08-09-2012, 07:38 AM
I'd prefer to see the Twins keep Morneau for next year and see if we can contend with him. If we're out of it, hopefully he's having a vintage-Morneau year, and can be flipped at the deadline. Meanwhile, tell Parmelee that he will be the everyday 1B in Rochester, hitting clean-up, and to be ready to play 1B for the Big Club as soon as mid-July 2013. This will give us a nice little nucleus of prospects coming up at the same time (Revere, Dozier, Parmelee, Hicks, Arcia, and Gibson all becoming big league regulars within the space of two years), and helps shorten the gap to our next wave of talent (Sano, Rosario, Kepler, Buxton, Berrios, Santana, Goodrum, Boyd, and Vargas, all of whom should arrive in 2014-2016).

Mauerzy4Prez
08-09-2012, 08:32 AM
You mean besides provide depth behind an older player with an injury history? You're right. Trade Parmalee and extend Morneau.

The Ramos trade was pretty bad, but I don't think it really matters at this point. I know when we called him up, he really showed that he could hit... but much of that has caught up to him since. Mauer clearly isn't going to be an everyday catcher anymore, and I think between Doumit and Drew, we have very good depth at the catcher position right now. Sure Drew's bat isn't all that great, but he is a + defensive catcher with outstanding ability to handle a pitching staff.

diehardtwinsfan
08-09-2012, 08:43 AM
In more than 2,446 minor league at bats, his his hitting line is .271/.362/.812. That's why he has little trade value.

September callup means pretty much nothing. But if you are going to point it out as a positive, It's only fair to also mention how badly he struggled with the Twins early this season.


I never said he was a sure thing. He also spent a large part of this season on the big league club not playing every day. That's a lousy way to develop talent.

My issue with statements like what you have posted here is that they lack any sort of context. It's well known that the Twins had to tweak Parmelee's swing because of contact issues. Otherwise he would have been Rob Deer... That took away quite a bit of his power, and it took a bit to come back. Over the last season and half though, the guy has been putting up video game stats in the minors. He does have pedigree, as he was a first rounder who was a potential middle of the order bat. The problem is that it took a bit longer for him to develop. Even in spite of this, he's 24 and has shown that he has nothing left to prove in AAA.

Yes he struggled. But that's true of most rookies. Not every rookie is Mike Trout or Steven Strasburg, and I don't get the mentality that says "if you don't produce in your first month of action, you must be worthless"

So would I trade him? Most likely no. I don't think he has "little value" as some of you have suggested, but if he does, you definitely don't move him. The problem the Twins have right now is that there is no place for him. That could have been alleviated by trading Span or Morneau, but both remain on the team.

jctwins
08-09-2012, 09:09 AM
The Ramos trade was pretty bad, but I don't think it really matters at this point. I know when we called him up, he really showed that he could hit... but much of that has caught up to him since. Mauer clearly isn't going to be an everyday catcher anymore, and I think between Doumit and Drew, we have very good depth at the catcher position right now. Sure Drew's bat isn't all that great, but he is a + defensive catcher with outstanding ability to handle a pitching staff.

You're missing the point. My post isn't about the validity of that trade on its own, but it's an example of trading depth, which is stupid on a team with so little.

crarko
08-09-2012, 09:37 AM
Rebuilding teams don't trade the cheap, young versions of their older players. Threads like this and the "Trade Revere" one are incredibly pointless.

True. Successful teams, like say, the Yankees, do that.

I suspect all the players mentioned above will be dangled, and see what kind of offers are available. How are you going to know what someone may bring in a trade without trying?

SpiritofVodkaDave
08-09-2012, 09:51 AM
True. Successful teams, like say, the Yankees, do that.



Ugh.....The Yankees are a terrible example to compare the Twins to. The Yankees build their teams through spending $200+ million a year to top free agents etc.

SpiritofVodkaDave
08-09-2012, 09:52 AM
Not every rookie is Mike Trout or Steven Strasburg, and I don't get the mentality that says "if you don't produce in your first month of action, you must be worthless"



Trout was actually pretty crappy last year.

cr9617
08-09-2012, 09:54 AM
I never said he was a sure thing. He also spent a large part of this season on the big league club not playing every day. That's a lousy way to develop talent.

My issue with statements like what you have posted here is that they lack any sort of context. It's well known that the Twins had to tweak Parmelee's swing because of contact issues. Otherwise he would have been Rob Deer... That took away quite a bit of his power, and it took a bit to come back. Over the last season and half though, the guy has been putting up video game stats in the minors. He does have pedigree, as he was a first rounder who was a potential middle of the order bat. The problem is that it took a bit longer for him to develop. Even in spite of this, he's 24 and has shown that he has nothing left to prove in AAA.

Yes he struggled. But that's true of most rookies. Not every rookie is Mike Trout or Steven Strasburg, and I don't get the mentality that says "if you don't produce in your first month of action, you must be worthless"

So would I trade him? Most likely no. I don't think he has "little value" as some of you have suggested, but if he does, you definitely don't move him. The problem the Twins have right now is that there is no place for him. That could have been alleviated by trading Span or Morneau, but both remain on the team.


Context? He's had 7 years of below average production for his position in the minors. He's get hot for 40 some games and now he's a star? He's closer to Stahoviak than he is to Morneau.
He's put up video game stats the last month and a half @ AAA, not the last year and a half.

He's worth more to the Twins than other teams would be willing to pay for him.

crarko
08-09-2012, 10:02 AM
Ugh.....The Yankees are a terrible example to compare the Twins to. The Yankees build their teams through spending $200+ million a year to top free agents etc.

I know it's unfair, but they got compared to them in the playoffs a few times, and found wanting. If we're going to ever challenge them, it's probably going to take a veteran core who's played together for a while. Or is the idea to make a run in 2018 or so?

diehardtwinsfan
08-09-2012, 10:14 AM
Context? He's had 7 years of below average production for his position in the minors. He's get hot for 40 some games and now he's a star? He's closer to Stahoviak than he is to Morneau.
He's put up video game stats the last month and a half @ AAA, not the last year and a half.

He's worth more to the Twins than other teams would be willing to pay for him.

What in the world is your definition of below average production?

In his 7 year career, he OPSed below .800 for an entire season only once... in 2007. He had two mid season promotions in 2006 and more recently in 2010 where he struggled out of the gate, but that was after extreme success in his former league. How in the world is that below average?

cr9617
08-09-2012, 10:25 AM
What in the world is your definition of below average production?

In his 7 year career, he OPSed below .800 for an entire season only once... in 2007. He had two mid season promotions in 2006 and more recently in 2010 where he struggled out of the gate, but that was after extreme success in his former league. How in the world is that below average?

Are you kidding? He plays first base. He's a middling prospect that has hardly made a mark.

This is a silly argument. There's a reason why he doesn't have much value trade wise. He's not on anybody's radar.

chavez
08-09-2012, 10:30 AM
GM's wouldn't trade Kris Benson and his wife for that, maybe just Kris Benson, but certainly not his wife with him.

ex-wife!!!

Rosterman
08-09-2012, 11:06 AM
The Twins may have to move Parmelee just because he's out of options, and they could extend Morneau and have Mauer. Carbo is an aging temp replacement only problem. Mauer playing first means more games for Doumit behind the plate. Then Willingham DHs more. Yet we can all fear when Hrbek went down after we let Sorrento go (because he was out of options, the 26th man) and Paul tore up baseball for a couple of seasons...

diehardtwinsfan
08-09-2012, 11:46 AM
The Twins may have to move Parmelee just because he's out of options, and they could extend Morneau and have Mauer. Carbo is an aging temp replacement only problem. Mauer playing first means more games for Doumit behind the plate. Then Willingham DHs more. Yet we can all fear when Hrbek went down after we let Sorrento go (because he was out of options, the 26th man) and Paul tore up baseball for a couple of seasons...

Doesn't parm have one option left?

Ultima Ratio
08-09-2012, 12:19 PM
Doesn't parm have one option left?
This is Parmelee's first option year.

diehardtwinsfan
08-09-2012, 12:30 PM
This is Parmelee's first option year.


then he has two years left... thanks.