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View Full Version : Article: Behind Joel Zumaya's elbow blowout



Parker Hageman
02-26-2012, 06:18 PM
You can view the page at http://twinsdaily.com/content.php?251-Behind-Joel-Zumaya-s-elbow-blowout

JeffB
02-26-2012, 06:30 PM
Parker, thanks for the analysis and images. I've been casually interested in pitching mechanics recently as you and other bloggers have posted detailed video, images and articles. Can you point out some images or articles online that show proper mechanics or counter examples to the inverted-W or inverted-V?

Thrylos
02-26-2012, 06:58 PM
Inverted W :)
haven't heard of that witch hunt thing since Mark Prior :)

Alright, here is a picture of someone delivering a pitch, not only with the "inverted W" (kinda hard to see from that ankle) but while doing the splits on the mount....
Horrible mechanics?
Horrible pitcher?
Injury risk?

Any guesses on who he is? (and don't try to read the flie name ;) )

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Joel
02-26-2012, 07:03 PM
For more on the inverted W, see http://www.chrisoleary.com/projects/PitchingMechanics101/Essays/DeathToTheInvertedW.html .

Parker Hageman
02-26-2012, 07:49 PM
@JeffB

The standard W is the motion that a majority of pitchers use. It depends on what you are looking for in terms of proper images - DrivelineBaseball.com has some excellent stuff and I'd highly recommend checking them out.

@thrylos98

(1) No, Tom Seaver did not throw with the Inverted W. Here's a video you can watch (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3toJoVfM2c) that shows a good angle of him from the center field camera. The Inverted W occurs when the pitching side elbow goes above the shoulder level. You will see that Seaver's pitching side elbow does not go above the shoulder line. He does do a significant amount of scap loading which has drawn criticisms but overall, if done properly, is a fine technique. What it boils down to is whether or not it disrupts timing.

(2) Apparently you don't follow baseball much as the Inverted W was mentioned constantly with the Stephen Strasburg injury.

Thrylos
02-26-2012, 08:27 PM
.

@thrylos98

(1) No, Tom Seaver did not throw with the Inverted W. Here's a video you can watch (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3toJoVfM2c) that shows a good angle of him from the center field camera. The Inverted W occurs when the pitching side elbow goes above the shoulder level. You will see that Seaver's pitching side elbow does not go above the shoulder line. He does do a significant amount of scap loading which has drawn criticisms but overall, if done properly, is a fine technique. What it boils down to is whether or not it disrupts timing.

(2) Apparently you don't follow baseball much as the Inverted W was mentioned constantly with the Stephen Strasburg injury.

alright ;) busted. I do not know who that Strasburg guy is and I quit following baseball since Walter Johnson hanged them :)

but I looked at that video (great video btw) and it is so darn hard to take screenshots from youtube, esp when Seaver is throwing 100 mph heat out there.
But check this out:

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and it is at the far end of his delivery (after he does the splits) but it clearly has the path of the ball pretty much marked... See that smiley face? That, my friend, is an inverted W delivery....

jimbo92107
02-26-2012, 08:28 PM
I think the team should build through their minor league system, for better or for worse. If you're looking at 80 wins at best, what's the point of bringing in a bunch of re-treads from all over the league? Better to show the guys in the minors that they really have a shot. To me, this cattle call from all over the league must be pretty demoralizing to the players in the Twins system trying to work their way up.

Alex
02-26-2012, 09:52 PM
alright ;) busted. I do not know who that Strasburg guy is and I quit following baseball since Walter Johnson hanged them :)

but I looked at that video (great video btw) and it is so darn hard to take screenshots from youtube, esp when Seaver is throwing 100 mph heat out there.
But check this out:

214


and it is at the far end of his delivery (after he does the splits) but it clearly has the path of the ball pretty much marked... See that smiley face? That, my friend, is an inverted W delivery....

I guess I don't see it from this picture (I'd actually expect the ball to start lower in an inverted W, but couldn't confirm that without a similar path from a known inverted "W.") I don't see the elbow going above the shoulder in the video either, and I was able to pause it at a better time as well.

Great analysis from Parker, imo.

Parker Hageman
02-27-2012, 09:05 AM
@thrylos



and it is at the far end of his delivery (after he does the splits) but it clearly has the path of the ball pretty much marked... See that smiley face? That, my friend, is an inverted W delivery....

I think you have some confusion as to what an Inverted W delivery actually is. The description is based on when a pitcher breaks his hands from the glove and picks up the ball in the t-position, not at the end of the delivery. Tom Seaver is not an example of a pitcher who threw with an Inverted W delivery.

destes
02-27-2012, 02:22 PM
maybe some fresh blood in the system IE Terry Doyle can consume some serious innings