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Nick Nelson
08-06-2012, 01:09 AM
You can view the page at http://twinsdaily.com/content.php?884-Nishioka-Gets-Another-Shot

jlovren
08-06-2012, 07:40 AM
With the amount of money we are paying Nishi, he should get this audition for the remainder of the season. It's not deserved but who knows? It's like the old saying sometimes the sun shines on a dog's ass once in awhile.

Brock Beauchamp
08-06-2012, 07:43 AM
May as well see what you have for 2013. Best case scenario, Nishi plays himself into a starting position at second (unlikely). Most likely scenario, Nishi shows that he's not going to kill the team in the futility role and that Casilla is expendable. Worst case scenario, the Twins know that Nishi is a AAA player and keeps him there for the entire 2013 season.

It's worth exploring, if only because the most likely scenario is that Nishi sticks as a futility guy and the Twins get to save ~$2m in 2013 by letting Casilla go in the offseason.

DPJ
08-06-2012, 08:23 AM
Should have let him rot in the minors and maybe want him to return to Japan with his tail between his legs.

PopRiveter
08-06-2012, 08:25 AM
Casilla is expendable either way. Jeff Gray has proven he deserves starts in the MIF as much as Nishi has. Sadly, they know what they have in Nishioka, a sunk cost. I'm bothered by this mostly because it happens in conjuction with the Valencia trade. At his worst, Valencia has been 2x as productive as Nishioka for 1/8th the cost. This audition can only be good news if it convinces Nishi to go back to Japan and reestablish himself as a successful player there.

JB_Iowa
08-06-2012, 08:29 AM
I assume that you are basically saying that Casilla is the odd man out which isn't really a problem since he is undoubtedly gone after the season anyway and probably has little (if any) value on waivers. I assume that Carroll would then fill in at 3B until Plouffe comes back and would then after that would be a fill-in where the Twins need him since Plouffe should also be getting as much PT as possible.

And, if Nishioka is still a disaster, it is a daily reminder to the front office of a massive failure in scouting and signing him -- one we can only hope they've learned from.

Brock Beauchamp
08-06-2012, 08:35 AM
I'm bothered by this mostly because it happens in conjuction with the Valencia trade. At his worst, Valencia has been 2x as productive as Nishioka for 1/8th the cost. This audition can only be good news if it convinces Nishi to go back to Japan and reestablish himself as a successful player there.

Valencia is also extremely limited as a player. He's a right-handed bench bat that can play third base and that's about it. With Plouffe on the roster and playing well, the Twins didn't have much interest in keeping Valencia around and I don't blame them for it. By most accounts, he's kind of a douche. On top of that, he stopped trying in the field and stopped hitting. I'm surprised that the Twins got anything for him and given the fact that they're going to need to start clearing space on the 40 man for some of the incoming players, his destiny was pretty much set in stone. Cut and run on the guy.

Mauerzy4Prez
08-06-2012, 08:49 AM
I see this move more about the young middle infield players we have in the minors, and less about what Nishi has done to earn his call up. The Twins want Escobar to play everyday short stop in AAA, and with Nishi around that was not going to happen. He is also being paid a lot more, and the Twins didn't want to call up another young guy, have to increase their salary, and still end up paying for Nishi in AAA. I was always excited about what Nishi could do based on his play in Japan, however at this point in time I would be happy enough with a guy who can handle second base the rest of the season and try to get on base every once in a while.

birdwatcher
08-06-2012, 09:26 AM
Don't you think Nishi goes right back to AAA when Plouffe is healthy? I question whether there's anything more to the story than that Nishi is the best option for this short period of time. It would surprise me if he didn't perform better than Valencia, both offensively and defensively. There are only two dozen players in the International League sporting an OPS of .750 or higher, so Nishi wasn't dreadful, just bad.

SpiritofVodkaDave
08-06-2012, 09:36 AM
Should have let him rot in the minors and maybe want him to return to Japan with his tail between his legs.

He has 5 million or so reasons not to. Hell, I'd live in Rochester for a year for that.

Harrison Greeley III
08-06-2012, 09:55 AM
Since we all know his slugging pct. is going to closely mirror his batting average, we should probably stop using OPS as a detractor. I'm only really interested in how well he's making contact and getting on base at this point. And I would agree that if he's not embarrassing himself right now, you might as well give him another shot while not contending and flushing that money down the toilet anyways.

DPJ
08-06-2012, 10:10 AM
He has 5 million or so reasons not to. Hell, I'd live in Rochester for a year for that.

Playing in obscurity in Rochester or back in Japan still a somewhat national hero?

Hell didn't Jojihma leave like 10+ million on the table with the M's?

nokomismod
08-06-2012, 10:12 AM
I am wondering if they are bringing Nishi back so he can save face and retire after this season knowing that he "earned" his way back to the big leagues and not come away as a completely negative experience. He certainly didn't play his way back into the big league club. I wish the guy the best though...sounds like a stand up guy.

savvyspy
08-06-2012, 10:13 AM
Just another meaningless deal by a team that has shown zero interest in getting better. There is no point in even discussing who is better between Valencia and Nishi. They both have VERY limited value and aren't going to make one bit a difference in whether or not this team is going to be in the bottom 5 worst teams in the majors. Nishi is a sunk cost so why not? Valencia is addition by subtraction. That's about it. Bigger question is how does Alexi Casilla still have a roster spot??

DPJ
08-06-2012, 10:19 AM
Bigger question is how does Alexi Casilla still have a roster spot??

Casilla was learned in the Nick Punto school of under the desk job security.

PopRiveter
08-06-2012, 10:46 AM
Valencia is also extremely limited as a player. He's a right-handed bench bat that can play third base and that's about it.
I absolutely agree. He can play C level defense and sometimes hit the ball hard (mostly at people.) He's a useful platoon player or fill-in. That isn't very hard to replace.
I'm just disappointed that his loss means we have to watch Nishioka play. No amount of money left on a contract will make Nishioka a competent MLB player. This is the "Scholarship Program" that was supposed to be removed. You don't have to find out what you have with Nishi. The results have been consistently bad for 2 years.
Valencia=moderate value, little cost. Nishioka=negative value, core player cost.

DAM DC Twins Fans
08-06-2012, 11:05 AM
Don't you think Nishi goes right back to AAA when Plouffe is healthy?

Yes, I think that is exactly what happens. The trade itself was basically getting an overage rookie league player for Valencia (better than a bus or a bucket of balls) who was done here. Nishi gets a chance to show Twins (and 29 other teams) what his MLB value is--but a short chance.

Rosterman
08-06-2012, 11:14 AM
The Twins will probably send a pitcher back for the two weeks before rosters expand in September. Look for all 40-man prospects to get the call up at that time: Hendriks, Guerra, Waldrop, Hernandez, plus Escobar, Tosoni, Parmelee. I'm thinking Benson will stay with New Britain. Assuming the Twins clear further roster space by letting some guys go in August (maybe Capps, Pavano) we might see an early add...yet Hicks is at New Britain and with them in the playoffs, probably not. I would like to see them advance Arcia to the bench, just give him some exposure to what the future might bring. The Twins do have one open roster spot and if Slama can start pitching again, would like to see him get some more major league innings. Right now, I would hate to be a disabled list pitcher who missed out on a season of opportunities: i.e. Slama and Oliveros and Gutierrez. All three are on the bubble stay on the 40-man or in the organization. 7 call-ups in September (maybe 8, depending who goes down with Plouffe comes back). Of course, make that 9 as someone has to go down when Pavano or Capps come back. I don't look for Walters return until September, if then.

Rosterman
08-06-2012, 11:15 AM
Anyone of the 40-man roster before season's end can be jettisoned to add guys in the off-season. And a couple of these guys need to be kept around to jettison IF the Twins sign a free agent.

Top Gun
08-06-2012, 11:15 AM
Good for him, gives Dozier a little rest. Maybe we can give Alexi away next.

cr9617
08-06-2012, 11:29 AM
Let's just hurry up and close the Nishi chapter. Obviously, this guy has no future in the Majors or with the Twins.

On another note, hindsight being 20/20, the Valencia trade is just one more example of the Twins selling a guy when his value is at it's lowest point.
These guys haven't been on the forward thinking end of trade in who knows how long.

Brock Beauchamp
08-06-2012, 11:30 AM
I absolutely agree. He can play C level defense and sometimes hit the ball hard (mostly at people.) He's a useful platoon player or fill-in. That isn't very hard to replace.
I'm just disappointed that his loss means we have to watch Nishioka play. No amount of money left on a contract will make Nishioka a competent MLB player. This is the "Scholarship Program" that was supposed to be removed. You don't have to find out what you have with Nishi. The results have been consistently bad for 2 years.
Valencia=moderate value, little cost. Nishioka=negative value, core player cost.

I don't think this is a scholarship thing at all. Nishioka is a sunk cost. Alexi Casilla is going to arbitration. Valencia has little value or use to the organization, which will be looking to add a lot of players to the 40 man in the coming year.

Get rid of Valencia for a marginal prospect, call up Nishioka and see if he can replace Casilla in 2013. If it works out, the Twins can decline arb on Alexi, possibly trade Carroll in the offseason, and use Nishi/Escobar in the futility/2B role. That's several million saved for 2013 and a few slots cleared off the 40 man. All in all, it could make the team both cheaper and better going forward.

Brock Beauchamp
08-06-2012, 11:32 AM
Let's just hurry up and close the Nishi chapter. Obviously, this guy has no future in the Majors or with the Twins.

On another note, hindsight being 20/20, the Valencia trade is just one more example of the Twins selling a guy when his value is at it's lowest point.
These guys haven't been on the forward thinking end of trade in who knows how long.

Valencia did that to himself. If he wasn't so awful that the Twins were forced to send him down, his value would be higher. The Twins needed a third baseman so it's not as if they were holding him back... The only thing doing that was his level of play. He even had a shot at redemption in Rochester and continued to play like crap, putting up a .680 OPS as a 27 year old. It's not as if the Twins had much of a choice. He wasn't going to get playing time, he's not getting any younger, and the Twins need to clear some junk off the 40 man roster.

jokin
08-06-2012, 11:49 AM
............ the Twins need to clear some junk off the 40 man roster.

The "heavy-lifting" phase of this junk-clearing can't begin soon enough, so that, on a more positive note, it will then be worth culling the roster in September in an attempt to unearth the next Diamond/Plouffe/Deduno/Parmelee in-the-rough.

Brock Beauchamp
08-06-2012, 12:04 PM
The "heavy-lifting" phase of this junk-clearing can't begin soon enough, so that, on a more positive note, it will then be worth culling the roster in September in an attempt to unearth the next Diamond/Plouffe/Deduno/Parmelee in-the-rough.

Yep, there's more than one reliever on that 40 man roster who could use the boot.

J-Dog Dungan
08-06-2012, 02:04 PM
Let's just hurry up and close the Nishi chapter. Obviously, this guy has no future in the Majors or with the Twins.

On another note, hindsight being 20/20, the Valencia trade is just one more example of the Twins selling a guy when his value is at it's lowest point.
These guys haven't been on the forward thinking end of trade in who knows how long.

Yes, they sold, but they got a kid who appears to have some promise down in the GCL.

DPJ
08-06-2012, 02:07 PM
Yes, they sold, but they got a kid who appears to have some promise down in the GCL.

I'll take my chances with Valenica over a kid who can legally buy beer still in the GCL and thinks walks are the devil.

BrentMpls
08-06-2012, 02:13 PM
I don't know if its another shot... Plouffe is supposed to be back Friday. They just need a hole plugged for a couple of games.

SpiritofVodkaDave
08-06-2012, 02:13 PM
I'll take my chances with Valenica over a kid who can legally buy beer still in the GCL and thinks walks are the devil.

Of course you would!

DPJ
08-06-2012, 02:15 PM
Of course you would!

Yeah I don't like the fact that the Twins just up and gave up a guy that I still think has a roll on this team. Not an everyday roll but a roll non-the less.

beckmt
08-06-2012, 02:16 PM
Twins got a possible long range prospect, Valencia had worked his way out of town, bad attitude and lack of ability. Terry Ryan has a big job ahead of him and this is a start. Do not be fooled, Red Sox are in the same boat as us. Anything is better than nothing. Casilla is probably next unless they trade Jamie Carroll.

snepp
08-06-2012, 02:22 PM
Yeah I don't like the fact that the Twins just up and gave up a guy that I still think has a roll on this team. Not an everyday roll but a roll non-the less.

Keep going, you're on a role.

Thrylos
08-06-2012, 02:24 PM
Terry Ryan has a big job ahead of him and this is a start. .

Yes and No.

Terry Ryan (or whomever the Twins GM will be) has a big job ahead of them and it has to do with getting the rotation fixed. The Valencia traded (and everything that Ryan did last off-season) has nothing to do with priority number one.

Trading a guy who for whatever reason had no future in this organization for a Rk level OF does nothing to fix the rotation (which should be Ryan's big job.) So it is not a start for anything. Trading (for example) Morneau for an MLB-ready SP would have been a start...

And, to be clear, I am not saying that the Valencia trade is "good" or "bad"... All I am saying is that it is a side move that does not address the major priorities with this team.

Steve Penz
08-06-2012, 02:31 PM
Minor subject change and I apologize if this is a horribly old and over-done topic. I want to know who lost their job over Nishi. Who went to Japan and/or saw him in the US and said, "oh yeah, this guys is the real deal."? Somebody will say Bill Smith. There had to be other people involved in that evaluation. If I understand the story correctly, Gardy saw him for one day in Spring Training '11 and knew immediately that he did not have the ability to play the MLB shortstop position. MLB channel does a lot of shows that profile top-ten lists. How about a show for most horrific scouting reports?

DPJ
08-06-2012, 02:40 PM
Keep going, you're on a role.

Ahh...I see what you did there.

jorgenswest
08-06-2012, 02:40 PM
The Twins don't have what it takes to get major league ready pitching. They might have been able to trade Span for J.C. Sulbaran (and other minor pieces) who was moved in the Broxton deal. Sulbaran is a C+ prospect in AA.

It is possible the Braves would have taken a combination of Liriano and Span for the injured Arodys Vizcaino and a C prospect.

Other than those two, I didn't see any starting pitching prospects where the Twins could reasonably match the deal.

Teams don't give up major league ready starting pitching without great return. Morneau is not going to be enough.

SpiritofVodkaDave
08-06-2012, 02:43 PM
Yeah I don't like the fact that the Twins just up and gave up a guy that I still think has a roll on this team. Not an everyday roll but a roll non-the less.
What role would that be?
5 more days on the roster, then sent back down to AAA for the rest of the season where he can continue to post a sub .700 OPS while having little value defensively? Then Cut in the off-season?

I have a feeling if this happened you would be leading the "we should have traded Valencia when we had a chance" group.

jimbo92107
08-06-2012, 02:44 PM
Nishioka was just a blown scouting report. Anybody looks good in their own highlight reel.

Look, he got a hit! Let's run that again... Wow, now he's two for two!

PopRiveter
08-06-2012, 02:48 PM
Rocketpig, I appreciate your reasoning on the utility role. It does make sense that the team might be looking to to salvage a little of a sunk cost the way you describe, but Nishioka hasn't earned the right to replace Alexi Casilla for any reason other than having the contract he does. Nishioka's whole value is based on a plus glove, a high OBP and speed. The glove he brought to the US has been poor, his OBP is .309 (at AAA,) and he's gone 6 for 12 in steal attempts. No matter how they try to whitewash it, any chances he's getting are being offered due to the fact that he's owed a lot of money. To me, that is what is meant by the "Scholarship Program." I.E. Just because we gave our scholarship to a guy doesn't mean he should get the chance over someone with a more deserving performance. Casilla is proving he's not worth arbitration, but he leaves a hole that can be filled cheaply with or without putting Nishioka in a Twins uni. I would like to see Mastroianni at 2nd for a couple weeks to learn whether that's an option.

DPJ
08-06-2012, 02:56 PM
What role would that be?
5 more days on the roster, then sent back down to AAA for the rest of the season where he can continue to post a sub .700 OPS while having little value defensively? Then Cut in the off-season?

I have a feeling if this happened you would be leading the "we should have traded Valencia when we had a chance" group.

He's a nice bench player to have, I think we all know the days of Matt Tolbert pitch hitting late in games. Danny isn't gonna set the world on fire, but he can play some 1B and 3B, I bet with some work he could fake a corner OF spot and he's a decent righty bat to have on the bench with a team loaded with lefties.

Boom Boom
08-06-2012, 03:13 PM
He's a nice bench player to have, I think we all know the days of Matt Tolbert pitch hitting late in games. Danny isn't gonna set the world on fire, but he can play some 1B and 3B, I bet with some work he could fake a corner OF spot and he's a decent righty bat to have on the bench with a team loaded with lefties.

But Gardy doesn't like him.

I get the feeling that the trade wasn't about getting something in return, it was about getting rid of Danny. Like the Kyle Lohse trade.

If I was TR, and Boston claimed Valencia, I'd ask for a pitcher. And if I couldn't get a pitcher, I'd just keep Valencia for now.

diehardtwinsfan
08-06-2012, 04:14 PM
I'm somewhat surprised we got anything at all of value for Danny. His "attitude issues" whatever those are, were well documented before he even made the bigs, and they have to make room on the 40 man roster somewhere, so you know that no one was going to offer much. He's not exactly playing lights out baseball either. I had hoped he could be a league average 3B for a while, but for the moment that ship has sailed. Perhaps Boston can right his ship a bit, but given all the club house problems out there, I'm not sure that Danny was the best pickup.

one_eyed_jack
08-06-2012, 05:16 PM
And he's in the lineup tonight no less. Hope he surprises the living daylights out of us.

Nothing to be lost by seeing what he can do, even if the answer to that is "not much", might as well give it a shot.

I wonder if things might have played out a little differently with him had he played in Rochester last year. I don't know that I've ever seen someone look so completely uncomfortable on a baseball field.

This has turned out to be a bad move on so many levels. Not only was he a mess on the field, but last year I made the mistake of reading the Strib and PiPress comments with some regularity, and they were often a cess pool of racially-charged hate directed at Nishioka that almost made me throw in my mouth. I know the guy played some bad baseball and the internet brings out the worst in people, but the fact that so many people went there was really disappointing. I'd like to think our state and our fan base is better than that.

Snortwood
08-06-2012, 10:53 PM
First post on this subject since the game. In the way of awards, Nishi deserves something like Worst Performance Ever by a Second Baseman on a Winning Team in an Absolute Blowout. Two errors, and really he should have received a 3rd even though the throw from Carroll was high he has to at least catch the ball. He can't pickup toward the hole, he can't catch a ball that isn't thrown right to him, and the sun must have gotten in his eyes on that first grounder of the game somehow.

Oh - and he went 0 for 5, though he did advance a runner one base one time and even hit the ball foul with some authority one time. But that's it for the positive spin. A nice foul ball and a well placed grounder when the game was in doubt.

I"m done with him. I'm done with expecting anything better than what we saw from him tonight. If I were the GM he'd be back in the minors or DFA tonight. If I were the manager I would vow (internally, not for public consumption, but to the team that expects a player to contribute at something remotely resembling major league caliber play and to management no matter what the cost, even my job) that I would NEVER write his name down in the lineup card again. Ever. No way is the team worse with Casilla at 2B and Carroll or Casilla there once Plouffe gets back in the everyday. This team can only improve by playing anyone other than that overmatched bumbler out there.

He's an embarrassment to the organization and to anyone taking money for admission to games. Thanks for raising him up for scrutiny one last time here. No further time or energy will be expended on him by me.

stringer bell
08-06-2012, 11:23 PM
The Twins have tried to be supportive and it hasn't worked. If they haven't done it yet, I think the Twins should confront Nishi. Something along the lines of "we paid a lot of money for your services, and we haven't received much of anything. Do you have something to offer or is this the best you can do?" We plan to DFA you if you don't perform and wouldn't expect any team to claim you. Do you want to go out like that?"

jokin
08-06-2012, 11:27 PM
The Twins have tried to be supportive and it hasn't worked. If they haven't done it yet, I think the Twins should confront Nishi. Something along the lines of "we paid a lot of money for your services, and we haven't received much of anything. Do you have something to offer or is this the best you can do?" We plan to DFA you if you don't perform and wouldn't expect any team to claim you. Do you want to go out like that?"

Don't you think this is something they have tried this in the past and something has gotten "lost in the translation" with Ryo as the middleman? I'll go on record admitting I was completely wrong yesterday when I said he couldn't be worse than last year.

jokin
08-06-2012, 11:30 PM
First post on this subject since the game. In the way of awards, Nishi deserves something like Worst Performance Ever by a Second Baseman on a Winning Team in an Absolute Blowout. Two errors, and really he should have received a 3rd even though the throw from Carroll was high he has to at least catch the ball. He can't pickup toward the hole, he can't catch a ball that isn't thrown right to him, and the sun must have gotten in his eyes on that first grounder of the game somehow....


You left out the juggling act and the full frontal face-plant.

Reginald Maudling's Shin
08-07-2012, 12:36 AM
I think this is hilarious. We haven't had a player this legendarily horse-sh!t since Houston Jiminez.

70charger
08-07-2012, 01:35 AM
It is kind of hilarious, actually. I like to hum the Benny Hill theme song whenever a ball gets hit his way...

Nick Nelson
08-07-2012, 02:03 AM
Based on these quotes from Gardy, it sounds like the Twins are on board with my plan: http://www.startribune.com/sports/twins/165216066.html?refer=y.


Gardenhire said the plan is to give Nishioka regular playing time at second.

"We're just going to let him play," Gardenhire said.

...

"It's not just three days for Nishi," Gardenhire said. "Nishi is here to play."



Missed the game tonight but it sounds like a comically bad performance. On the bright side, if he keeps this up, the Twins can move forward with him firmly out of the picture for next year.

crarko
08-07-2012, 06:54 AM
Yeah, give him the same week or so Valencia received. If there's improvement, great. If not, get him out of here. At least off the 40 man.

DPJ
08-07-2012, 07:20 AM
Same a bit of the game and Nishi still looked like **** from here, bad at-bats and crap-tastic defense.

Mauerzy4Prez
08-07-2012, 07:40 AM
Based on these quotes from Gardy, it sounds like the Twins are on board with my plan: http://www.startribune.com/sports/twins/165216066.html?refer=y.



Missed the game tonight but it sounds like a comically bad performance. On the bright side, if he keeps this up, the Twins can move forward with him firmly out of the picture for next year.

I also heard that Gardy said Nishi will likely stay around after Plouffe comes back from the DL. Last night was downright terrible, and honestly I was mad at first but eventually you just feel bad for the guy. He clearly has some major confidence issues and they are impacting his ability to play sound baseball. When you are booting easy ground balls and throws off the heal of your glove and flat out falling down as you throw a ten footer to first base, the issue comes back to what is going on in his own head. I say give him the rest of the series at second base, let him go back out tonight and make up for yesterday, and hopefully he can get more comfortable. He'll either sink or swim, but at least then we will know if he's a useful utility, or a complete head case that just needs to go away.

SBG
08-07-2012, 08:00 AM
Based on these quotes from Gardy, it sounds like the Twins are on board with my plan: http://www.startribune.com/sports/twins/165216066.html?refer=y.



Missed the game tonight but it sounds like a comically bad performance. On the bright side, if he keeps this up, the Twins can move forward with him firmly out of the picture for next year.

If Nishi was a vaudeville act, the hook would have come out about halfway through last night's game.

SpiritofVodkaDave
08-07-2012, 08:21 AM
Sending Dozier back down wouldn't be the worst thing in the world, Gardy is right, he hasn't preformed offensively. I find it interesting that he wants Dozier to focus more on taking walks, that is a good thing IMO.

Of course if Dozier is sent down and Nishi is kept up people will go bonkers, but in a lost season we might as well see if Nishioka has ANY sort of a future in the big leagues. I'm guessing he gets 20-25 games to prove himself, and if he doesn't do a complete 180 he will be cut at the end of the year. At the very least we should be able to get some laughs.

DPJ
08-07-2012, 08:27 AM
Of course if Dozier is sent down and Nishi is kept up people will go bonkers, but in a lost season we might as well see if Nishioka has ANY sort of a future in the big leagues. I'm guessing he gets 20-25 games to prove himself, and if he doesn't do a complete 180 he will be cut at the end of the year. At the very least we should be able to get some laughs.

Nishi has no future with this team, Dozier does. In a lost season you play young guys who actually have a future with your club, not overpaid mistake signings who's only up cause he's making 3 million.

20-25 games doesn't change anything, he can't hit and he can't field worth a damn.

SpiritofVodkaDave
08-07-2012, 08:34 AM
Nishi has no future with this team, Dozier does. In a lost season you play young guys who actually have a future with your club, not overpaid mistake signings who's only up cause he's making 3 million.

20-25 games doesn't change anything, he can't hit and he can't field worth a damn.

Did you read the article? They want to send Dozier down to help his development. The kid has potential, but let's not sugarcoat it, he has been pretty bad offensively. Hopefully he can go down to AAA, work on his swing/approach and come back up soon and hit for a .700+ OPS.

I agree, Nishi sucks but he is owed good money next year, Gardy might as well throw him out there and say "See, we can't count on him in any way shape or form next year" Sort of like what they are potentially doing with Blackburn if he continues to struggle.

Mauerzy4Prez
08-07-2012, 08:36 AM
Sending Dozier back down wouldn't be the worst thing in the world, Gardy is right, he hasn't preformed offensively. I find it interesting that he wants Dozier to focus more on taking walks, that is a good thing IMO.

Of course if Dozier is sent down and Nishi is kept up people will go bonkers, but in a lost season we might as well see if Nishioka has ANY sort of a future in the big leagues. I'm guessing he gets 20-25 games to prove himself, and if he doesn't do a complete 180 he will be cut at the end of the year. At the very least we should be able to get some laughs.

I understand what you're thought process is here, but I don't think this is a good idea because it is not keeping in mind the big picture. What type of message does that send to Dozier if we send him down to AAA and give his spot to Nishioka? Dozier is a long term prospect for us that needs to stay up and continue to build up his ability at this level. Nishi is an after thought and a mistake, that we are never going to pursue long term and will likely be gone by next year. Sending Dozier down right now, with September right around the corner makes no sense at all... ESPECIALLY if we are going to fill his spot with this dud of a player. Not to mention that one of the main reasons we called up Nishi in the first place is to give Escobar full time play at AAA for the rest of the season.

DPJ
08-07-2012, 08:38 AM
Did you read the article? They want to send Dozier down to help his development. The kid has potential, but let's not sugarcoat it, he has been pretty bad offensively. Hopefully he can go down to AAA, work on his swing/approach and come back up soon and hit for a .700+ OPS.

I agree, Nishi sucks but he is owed good money next year, Gardy might as well throw him out there and say "See, we can't count on him in any way shape or form next year" Sort of like what they are potentially doing with Blackburn if he continues to struggle.

I've never been high on Doz, IMO he's a Carrol-like utility player. But what's the point of sending him down, let the kid work through his lumps and either get going or crap the bed. In lost seasons you ride out the kids and figure out if it's one less hole you have to fill in 2013.

Blackburn and Nishi are in the majors for the same reason, they're both owed money going into 2013. If neither of these guys weren't on the books for 2013, they would have been shipped out months ago.

Brock Beauchamp
08-07-2012, 08:42 AM
I don't think there's enough time in the MiLB season to send down Dozier and expect any kind of results... unless they do it right now.

birdwatcher
08-07-2012, 08:50 AM
While feeling a little guilty laughing at another's foibles, I confess I was humored by the thought of Nishi adding to my already rich history of individual player ineptitude dating back to 1961 for me. Hosken Powell came to mind for me. At least Houston Jiminez had a reason to take a glove out to his position.


But I gotta say, if they trot Nishi out there for the next 25 games, I will become more and more humorless I'm afraid. Maybe the brain trust has seen something we haven't, but I just can't imagine Nishi turning things around. Give me Casilla and Carroll any day of the week over Nishi! Prove us wrong, boys. This'll add a nice little side interest to a lost season I guess.

nokomismod
08-07-2012, 08:53 AM
Casilla has to be wondering, "I am that awful that Nishi is playing in front of me??".

SpiritofVodkaDave
08-07-2012, 08:56 AM
I don't think there's enough time in the MiLB season to send down Dozier and expect any kind of results... unless they do it right now.

Maybe it would just be a wake up call? Gardy seemed to indicate that maybe he would need that. Sounds like he likes the kids potential but frustrated with the results thus far. "Get him out of that I'm-in-the-big-leagues mentality" is somewhat telling. It never hurts to light a fire under the ass from time to time, hopefully they don't keep him down as long as they did Bartlett though.


"The option is to send him back down, get him grounded again, get him out of that I'm-in-the-big-leagues mentality and then bring him back up," Gardenhire said.

Gardenhire stressed how much he likes Dozier but acknowledged the team has had repeated discussions about sending him back to Rochester.
"If he continues to struggle offensively -- he's not drawing walks -- is it the right thing to do?" Gardenhire said. "We talked about that at the All-Star break, and believe me, I've wondered myself. I don't have any intention of doing it right now, but that could change tomorrow. It really could."

SpiritofVodkaDave
08-07-2012, 08:58 AM
While feeling a little guilty laughing at another's foibles, I confess I was humored by the thought of Nishi adding to my already rich history of individual player ineptitude dating back to 1961 for me. Hosken Powell came to mind for me. At least Houston Jiminez had a reason to take a glove out to his position.


But I gotta say, if they trot Nishi out there for the next 25 games, I will become more and more humorless I'm afraid. Maybe the brain trust has seen something we haven't, but I just can't imagine Nishi turning things around. Give me Casilla and Carroll any day of the week over Nishi! Prove us wrong, boys. This'll add a nice little side interest to a lost season I guess.
Well, if he continues to look as inept as he did last night I would guess 25 would turn into 7 or 8 pretty quickly.

DPJ
08-07-2012, 09:05 AM
Maybe it would just be a wake up call? Gardy seemed to indicate that maybe he would need that. Sounds like he likes the kids potential but frustrated with the results thus far. "Get him out of that I'm-in-the-big-leagues mentality" is somewhat telling. It never hurts to light a fire under the ass from time to time, hopefully they don't keep him down as long as they did Bartlett though.

That's a great message to send to the club...send down the guy who although he's struggled actually has a reason to be at the big league level. So they can play the Asian fellow who has no busy at the MLB level, but he's owed some money.

SpiritofVodkaDave
08-07-2012, 09:16 AM
That's a great message to send to the club...send down the guy who although he's struggled actually has a reason to be at the big league level. So they can play the Asian fellow who has no busy at the MLB level, but he's owed some money.

How many at bats does Dozier have in the majors this year? 300
How many at bats does Nishi have in the majors this year? 5
Dozier is going to end up with at least 4 times as many at bats and Nishi won't be around next year as well.
That isn't the message they are sending.

JB_Iowa
08-07-2012, 09:16 AM
You can only keep playing Nishi until he starts demoralizing pitchers.

Fortunately the Twins came through in the 2nd last night and made Nishi's personal performance a non-issue in terms of the outcome of the game.

But that probably won't always be the case. We've got some fairly inexperienced pitchers out there. Having to overcome fielding errors is probably helpful to a point but at some point it has to demoralize the pithcer -- and the team.

DPJ
08-07-2012, 09:20 AM
How many at bats does Dozier have in the majors this year? 300
How many at bats does Nishi have in the majors this year? 5
Dozier is going to end up with at least 4 times as many at bats and Nishi won't be around next year as well.
That isn't the message they are sending.

Doz is up and should stay up cause he offers some hope in the infield, Nishi is just for no other reason then cause he's owed money. I think it would send a pretty ****ty message to send down one guy who rightfully deserves to be in the majors while playing a guy that has no business being on a major league roster.

SpiritofVodkaDave
08-07-2012, 09:25 AM
Doz is up and should stay up cause he offers some hope in the infield, Nishi is just for no other reason then cause he's owed money. I think it would send a pretty ****ty message to send down one guy who rightfully deserves to be in the majors while playing a guy that has no business being on a major league roster.

One could argue that neither "deserves" to be in the majors now. I like Doziers potential, but the guy has a .269 OBP and .324 slugging%

DPJ
08-07-2012, 09:29 AM
One could argue that neither "deserves" to be in the majors now. I like Doziers potential, but the guy has a .269 OBP and .324 slugging%

And who do you replace Dozier with then huh? Yeah Dozier hasn't been great but who the hell is there in this organization that's better while offering some potential for the future.

crarko
08-07-2012, 09:32 AM
You can only keep playing Nishi until he starts demoralizing pitchers.

Fortunately the Twins came through in the 2nd last night and made Nishi's personal performance a non-issue in terms of the outcome of the game.

But that probably won't always be the case. We've got some fairly inexperienced pitchers out there. Having to overcome fielding errors is probably helpful to a point but at some point it has to demoralize the pithcer -- and the team.

This. When it drags the team down it's not acceptable.

I'm fine with sending Dozier down for a few weeks when Plouffe comes off the DL, though. See if Bruno can jump start him again. Carroll is a perfectly good SS until then.

Nick Nelson
08-07-2012, 09:57 AM
Doz is up and should stay up cause he offers some hope in the infield, Nishi is just for no other reason then cause he's owed money. I think it would send a pretty ****ty message to send down one guy who rightfully deserves to be in the majors while playing a guy that has no business being on a major league roster.

Why are you so concerned about the "message" being sent? The Twins need to do what's best for them as a team. The notion that Dozier has somehow earned anything is silly.

DPJ
08-07-2012, 10:05 AM
Why are you so concerned about the "message" being sent? The Twins need to do what's best for them as a team. The notion that Dozier has somehow earned anything is silly.

Where the hell did I use the word earn slick?

Dozier is up and should stay up cause he's the best the Twins have now and for the future...and that's what's best for the team.

JB_Iowa
08-07-2012, 11:02 AM
Where the hell did I use the word earn slick?

Dozier is up and should stay up cause he's the best the Twins have now and for the future...and that's what's best for the team.

But is that what's best for his long-term future (and the team's long-term future)? He's had a long taste of the big leagues -- maybe a return to AAA to work on some specifics is what he needs.

I honestly don't know the answer but I'm not willing to dismiss the possibility that he goes to AAA, works on some things and is better off for it in the long run. (Yes, I know there's the possibility that it works the other way but then that tells you something about him, too.)

TheLeviathan
08-07-2012, 11:12 AM
Do what's best for Dozier - I'm sure we can find someone to stand at shortstop for a few months of a wasted season.

PopRiveter
08-07-2012, 11:31 AM
It is kind of hilarious, actually. I like to hum the Benny Hill theme song whenever a ball gets hit his way...

You just made the game more fun for everyone who read this comment! Awesome!

Nick Nelson
08-07-2012, 11:33 AM
Where the hell did I use the word earn slick?

Dozier is up and should stay up cause he's the best the Twins have now and for the future...and that's what's best for the team.

That seems to be your implication. As if there's some great injustice in one bad player being rostered over another.

What's best for the team is what's best for the player. Dozier looks overwhelmed and he's not showing any meaningful signs of improvement. If the coaching staff feels he'd benefit from a return to Triple-A to work on some things, then so be it. That approach has helped plenty of players before.

TheLeviathan
08-07-2012, 11:38 AM
I still can't wrap my head around the logic that you just keep tossing players out there that have a future with this team, no matter how much it hurts their development, simply because the season is lost. The players that belong out there in that situation are Capps, Pavano, Nishi and anyone else that some miracle might give them value to be claimed or traded for.

A guy like Dozier should be part of the future plans, letting him repeatedly fall on his face doesn't help him with his future. It hasn't been helping him the last month either when people were using the same logic in June. Then a 5 game streak in early July somehow confirmed that insanity, but the truth is he's been overmatched. And he's been overmatched for awhile.

DPJ
08-07-2012, 11:39 AM
That seems to be your implication. As if there's some great injustice in one bad player being rostered over another.

What's best for the team is what's best for the player. Dozier looks overwhelmed and he's not showing any meaningful signs of improvement. If the coaching staff feels he'd benefit from a return to Triple-A to work on some things, then so be it. That approach has helped plenty of players before.

So I never use the word "earn" but you thinks that's what I'm implying...top notch as always Mr Nelson.

I don't think he needs to return to AAA, I think he needs to take his hacks and lumps and go through what most rookies go through. Plus what's the point of sending a guy down for a few weeks only to call him up when rosters expand in September.

StormJH1
08-07-2012, 11:50 AM
I still can't wrap my head around the logic that you just keep tossing players out there that have a future with this team, no matter how much it hurts their development, simply because the season is lost. The players that belong out there in that situation are Capps, Pavano, Nishi and anyone else that some miracle might give them value to be claimed or traded for.

A guy like Dozier should be part of the future plans, letting him repeatedly fall on his face doesn't help him with his future. It hasn't been helping him the last month either when people were using the same logic in June. Then a 5 game streak in early July somehow confirmed that insanity, but the truth is he's been overmatched. And he's been overmatched for awhile.
Well, first of all, I don't think Nishi has ANY value, even if he were somehow hitting .280 and stealing some bases. His skill sets profile as a utility infielder, but I'm pretty sure he's the worst middle infielder defensively in the AL, or possibly all of baseball. I'm not kidding. I'm trying out MLB TV for a month or so, so if I come across someone worse around the league, I'll happily correct myself.

The problem the Twins have is they lost basically an entire generation of prospects under Smith's watch. Granted, many of those were originally drafted by Ryan in the first place, or they had medical problems, or the disaster known as the Rochester Red Wings failed to prepare them with basic baseball skills. I'm talking mostly about the draft classes from 2004 (Plouffe) to 2006 (Valencia). Plouffe looks like one of the few position players to really emerge out of that haul, though there are some guys that are even more recent (Revere - '07) that are starting to contribute.

So when you talk about the assumption that terrible teams should give playing time to the next wave of prospects...well, the "next wave" is all 18-21 year olds right now. Otherwise, they are injured (Benson, et al) or non-prospects (Pretty much the whole AAA team). When you look at the end of 2011, you saw bad teams bringing up guys like Ackley, Hosmer, Moustakas, Chisenhall, and Kipnis all over baseball. I would LOVE to watch one of those bad teams. Unfortunately, the Twins are going to need "bridge" guys..probably more washed up vets..to even make it to the point where we can see if Sano, Rosario, Arcia, etc. are major league ballplayers. And that's not even addressing the pitching rotation, which is much worse condition. There are still some great players on this team that are fun to watch, but in terms of general outlook, it's a dark time for Twins fans.

TheLeviathan
08-07-2012, 12:05 PM
So when you talk about the assumption that terrible teams should give playing time to the next wave of prospects....

Well, I think you might have missed my point. The logic that "We're bad" means "Play a bunch of young kids" leaves out the important piece of "play a bunch of young kids WHO ARE READY". You don't just call up a kid because you suck - call him up because it will help his development.

I'd argue we haven't been helping Dozier's development for about 2 and a half months. It's too late to rectify it now probably, but the guy hasn't been making much of any progress for a long time now. Just because we're bad isn't an excuse to continue that method.

Hopefully that was better articulated.

DPJ
08-07-2012, 12:17 PM
I'd argue we haven't been helping Dozier's development for about 2 and a half months. It's too late to rectify it now probably, but the guy hasn't been making much of any progress for a long time now. Just because we're bad isn't an excuse to continue that method.

Hopefully that was better articulated.

Maybe Dozier just isn't a major league player, instead of looking for improvments the Twins are getting a good look if this kid is even a major league starter. Even with his .890 OPS and plus defense (RP) this could just be the case of a guy that can't hack it. Granted I'd still give him all of next season before the guy is written off, but I personally nothing wrong with throwing a kid in the deep end and seeing if he's gonna sink or swim.

iatwins
08-07-2012, 12:20 PM
Good lord, Reusse is murdering both Nishioka and the front office on 1500 right now. Actually pretty entertaining.

DPJ
08-07-2012, 12:53 PM
Good lord, Reusse is murdering both Nishioka and the front office on 1500 right now. Actually pretty entertaining.

Well it is one of the most colossal mistakes in scouting I've ever seen. How the hell do you give up 15 million dollars for a guy that can't play baseball? He can't hit, he can't field...he has no tools besides speed that would lead you to believe he could be an everyday player.

snepp
08-07-2012, 01:07 PM
Well it is one of the most colossal mistakes in scouting I've ever seen. How the hell do you give up 15 million dollars for a guy that can't play baseball? He can't hit, he can't field...he has no tools besides speed that would lead you to believe he could be an everyday player.

He sure had a sexy batting average that one season in Japan though.

DPJ
08-07-2012, 01:09 PM
He sure had a sexy batting average that one season in Japan though.

BABIP'ed the Twins outta 15 million.

John Bonnes
08-07-2012, 01:22 PM
Well it is one of the most colossal mistakes in scouting I've ever seen. How the hell do you give up 15 million dollars for a guy that can't play baseball? He can't hit, he can't field...he has no tools besides speed that would lead you to believe he could be an everyday player.

FWIW, I don't think it was the Twins scouting that let them down on this one. I know some folks who saw the Twins scouts reports on Nishi, and they say it was pretty accurate. I assume it didn't say "AA Player" in big red letters, but it did estimate his skills appropriately.

I've also heard from some people that the problem with the Nishi signing was that the tail was wagging the dog - the Twins wanted to expand to Japan for revenue reasons and Nishi (and the pitcher they just lost out on) were their attempts to do so.

SBG
08-07-2012, 01:31 PM
FWIW, I don't think it was the Twins scouting that let them down on this one. I know some folks who saw the Twins scouts reports on Nishi, and they say it was pretty accurate. I assume it didn't say "AA Player" in big red letters, but it did estimate his skills appropriately.

I've also heard from some people that the problem with the Nishi signing was that the tail was wagging the dog - the Twins wanted to expand to Japan for revenue reasons and Nishi (and the pitcher they just lost out on) were their attempts to do so.

If the Twins pretty much knew that he was worthless and still paid $15 million to get him, does that make the situation any better? I think that makes me even more unhappy with this trainwreck.

Boom Boom
08-07-2012, 01:42 PM
FWIW, I don't think it was the Twins scouting that let them down on this one. I know some folks who saw the Twins scouts reports on Nishi, and they say it was pretty accurate. I assume it didn't say "AA Player" in big red letters, but it did estimate his skills appropriately.

I've also heard from some people that the problem with the Nishi signing was that the tail was wagging the dog - the Twins wanted to expand to Japan for revenue reasons and Nishi (and the pitcher they just lost out on) were their attempts to do so.

This is interesting stuff, John, but if all this is true then I like the Nishioka signing even less now.

JB_Iowa
08-07-2012, 01:45 PM
If the Twins pretty much knew that he was worthless and still paid $15 million to get him, does that make the situation any better? I think that makes me even more unhappy with this trainwreck.

I don't think hat they knew he was worthless. I think that this was a MASSIVE ORGANIZATIONAL FAILURE -- and that's why no one was fired over it.

I suspect that there was some failure in scouting -- my bet is that the scouts raised some concerns but that they didn't put up a "stop sign" on signing him. And then, I think that the desire to gain an entree into the Japanese market overrode any "red flags" that the scouts may have raised.

A failure at all levels in the process. We can only hope that they've learned a lesson from it and that they keep marketing out of the baseball decisions.

DPJ
08-07-2012, 01:56 PM
I've also heard from some people that the problem with the Nishi signing was that the tail was wagging the dog - the Twins wanted to expand to Japan for revenue reasons and Nishi (and the pitcher they just lost out on) were their attempts to do so.

Sweet Jesus...

SpiritofVodkaDave
08-07-2012, 02:14 PM
Sweet Jesus...

I couldn't see that happening with Ryan at the helm, no way would he allow that much money to be tossed aside for a Japan PR effort/what not.
I'm pretty sure the Rangers did the same thing, now they are stuck with a #3/#4 in Darvish who they shelled out over 100 mil for.

DPJ
08-07-2012, 02:43 PM
I couldn't see that happening with Ryan at the helm, no way would he allow that much money to be tossed aside for a Japan PR effort/what not.
I'm pretty sure the Rangers did the same thing, now they are stuck with a #3/#4 in Darvish who they shelled out over 100 mil for.

1. Ryan was part of the organization when they signed Nishi, please stop acting like everything wrong with this organization is/was Smith's fault.

2. Please tell me you're joking about Darvish?

Paul
08-07-2012, 03:14 PM
You can only keep playing Nishi until he starts demoralizing pitchers...We've got some fairly inexperienced pitchers out there. Having to overcome fielding errors is probably helpful to a point but at some point it has to demoralize the pithcer -- and the team.


Right on brother. It's not very often that I am utterly baffled by the Twins management activities. But I am here.

IMO, this is a repeat of the middle of the mistake trail that caused the debacle of 2011.

jokin
08-07-2012, 03:27 PM
I don't think hat they knew he was worthless. I think that this was a MASSIVE ORGANIZATIONAL FAILURE -- and that's why no one was fired over it.

I suspect that there was some failure in scouting -- my bet is that the scouts raised some concerns but that they didn't put up a "stop sign" on signing him. And then, I think that the desire to gain an entree into the Japanese market overrode any "red flags" that the scouts may have raised.

A failure at all levels in the process. We can only hope that they've learned a lesson from it and that they keep marketing out of the baseball decisions.

Yep, exactly. Dave St Peter can't fire himself in this non-knee-jerk organization. But I'm not sure if they've learned their lesson. Perhaps that's why "numbers guy", Bill Smith was left on the payroll and kept in a hermetically sealed room- to continue having fun with numbers so he and DSP can scheme up a new marketing coup in [insert country here].

SpiritofVodkaDave
08-07-2012, 03:29 PM
1. Ryan was part of the organization when they signed Nishi, please stop acting like everything wrong with this organization is/was Smith's fault.

2. Please tell me you're joking about Darvish?

1. Ryan wasn't the GM! Smith was! At the end of the day it's the GM's decision on who to sign, who to trade etc. If the GM doesn't have the final say then you are in a Steinbrenner type situation, and from what I have seen the Pohlads usually don't get super involved in player decisions (other then oking the payroll increase to sign Mauer)

2. 4.57 ERA is worth 20 million a year? I get he was "sexy" coming over, but he is suddenly looking like a majority of the other pitchers that came from Japan, they are able to fool hitters for a bit since there isn't a whole lot of tape/scouting report on them, and then people begin to figure them out. In his last 10 starts he has a 5.94 ERA. He's giving up a lot of hits and walks. Not saying he will be a Nishi level bust, just that he won't live up to the money they spent to get him as he settles in as a #3/#4.

DPJ
08-07-2012, 03:34 PM
1. Ryan wasn't the GM! Smith was! At the end of the day it's the GM's decision on who to sign, who to trade etc. If the GM doesn't have the final say then you are in a Steinbrenner type situation, and from what I have seen the Pohlads usually don't get super involved in player decisions (other then oking the payroll increase to sign Mauer)

2. 4.57 ERA is worth 20 million a year? I get he was "sexy" coming over, but he is suddenly looking like a majority of the other pitchers that came from Japan, they are able to fool hitters for a bit since there isn't a whole lot of tape/scouting report on them, and then people begin to figure them out. In his last 10 starts he has a 5.94 ERA. He's giving up a lot of hits and walks. Not saying he will be a Nishi level bust, just that he won't live up to the money they spent to get him as he settles in as a #3/#4.

1. But if the call came down from the Pohlads to sign him cause it would increase revenue from Japan how were the Pohlads not involved?

3. Yu is/was the best pitcher to ever come outta Japan...EVER. You don't sign him a guy for a 100 to get some Yen.

one_eyed_jack
08-07-2012, 05:09 PM
A failure at all levels in the process. We can only hope that they've learned a lesson from it and that they keep marketing out of the baseball decisions.


---Agree with this. My fear is that they'll learn a lesson, but it will be the wrong lesson.

This move was a departure from recent tradition. More money, higher risk. In a lot of ways, it was exactly the type of move the fans complained that the team refused to make, opting instead for low cost, low risk, low reward guys.

So now that it has completely blown up in their face, I'm afraid the conclusion will be that it's better go back to sifting through the bargain bin for Mike Lambs and Tony Batistas and ignoring Japan completely.

Hopefully I'm wrong and they'll do a post-mortem on what went wrong here and how to do better next time so that instead of another Nishioka, we get, say, another Tadahito Iguchi.

crarko
08-07-2012, 05:22 PM
That's a good observation. They tried playing with the big kids, and it didn't work the first time. Don't stop trying, just do better next time.

PopRiveter
08-07-2012, 05:57 PM
I think "MASSIVE ORGANIZATIONAL FAILURE" is a bit of an overstatement when we're talking about a bust signing that consumes only 5% of your payroll. They are getting embarrassing production from the guy, but they are only paying "competant, established player" salary. The FO should be as embarrassed as Nishi is at this swing-and-miss, but it'll only cost $3mil next year to make it go away, right? It's not my money, so I'm more inclined to mourn the at bats and innings they give him than the money.

USAFChief
08-07-2012, 06:34 PM
FWIW, I don't think it was the Twins scouting that let them down on this one. I know some folks who saw the Twins scouts reports on Nishi, and they say it was pretty accurate. I assume it didn't say "AA Player" in big red letters, but it did estimate his skills appropriately.

I've also heard from some people that the problem with the Nishi signing was that the tail was wagging the dog - the Twins wanted to expand to Japan for revenue reasons and Nishi (and the pitcher they just lost out on) were their attempts to do so.

I have a hard time buying any this. For one thing, how much add'l revenue could the Twins reasonably expect from Japan?

It also doesn't seem to jive with the "Twins way" of doing things.


http://www.startribune.com/sports/twins/128926563.html?refer=y

I think the simplest explanation is often the best. In this case, they convinced themselves JJ Hardy had to go, to get "quicker" and "more athletic" in the middle infield, and they thought Nishioka could provide that, at a minor cost savings to boot. As it turned out, Nishioka hasn't been able to play major league baseball. He wouldn't be the first, and won't be the last time a scout(s) missed on a player.

diehardtwinsfan
08-07-2012, 08:59 PM
1. Ryan wasn't the GM! Smith was! At the end of the day it's the GM's decision on who to sign, who to trade etc. If the GM doesn't have the final say then you are in a Steinbrenner type situation, and from what I have seen the Pohlads usually don't get super involved in player decisions (other then oking the payroll increase to sign Mauer)

2. 4.57 ERA is worth 20 million a year? I get he was "sexy" coming over, but he is suddenly looking like a majority of the other pitchers that came from Japan, they are able to fool hitters for a bit since there isn't a whole lot of tape/scouting report on them, and then people begin to figure them out. In his last 10 starts he has a 5.94 ERA. He's giving up a lot of hits and walks. Not saying he will be a Nishi level bust, just that he won't live up to the money they spent to get him as he settles in as a #3/#4.


4.57 ERA isn't much higher than league average. He's also 25 and striking out nearly 11/9. His walk rate is his real deficiency. If he cuts that in half, he's an ace.

SpiritofVodkaDave
08-07-2012, 09:22 PM
His walk rate is his real deficiency. If he cuts that in half, he's an ace.

Where have we heard this before...