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View Full Version : Goessling: Ryan perplexed by Wimmers' injury



Nick Nelson
08-01-2012, 02:46 PM
http://www.twincities.com/twins/ci_21203057/minnesota-twins-gm-pitcher-ryan-wimmers-injury-i


"I don't quite get it," Ryan said. "I'd like to think we can diagnose and make sure we know what's going to go on, but we're not going to let him go any farther until we figure this out."

Twins medical staff, ladies and gents!

gunnarthor
08-01-2012, 02:48 PM
Well, the optimist in me sees this as a final straw in Ryan's evaluation and will lead to changes.

Boom Boom
08-01-2012, 03:03 PM
I'd be interested in knowing what the Twins doctors' opinions are on rest/rehab for partial UCL tears vs. surgery.

It sure seems like every time we try rest and rehab it only kicks the can down the road, and could potentially damage the ligament even more in the short-term.

jokin
08-01-2012, 03:09 PM
http://www.twincities.com/twins/ci_21203057/minnesota-twins-gm-pitcher-ryan-wimmers-injury-i



Twins medical staff, ladies and gents!

What more evidence do you need to see that this organization needs a major overhaul in the FO?

snepp
08-01-2012, 03:21 PM
I'm certainly perplexed, but it's not by Wimmers' injury.

kirbyelway
08-01-2012, 03:23 PM
What more evidence do you need to see that this organization needs a major overhaul in the FO?
Everytime something negative happens you idiots think an overhaul is needed in the front office. It's pretty obvious TR doesn't like what happened here. Did TR diagnose this? Did TR hurt Wimmers arm? Did TR tell Liriano to pitch like crap to start the season so his value would be garbage? Give him a chance to turn this around, HE HAS A PROVEN TRACK RECORD PEOPLE!!!!!

DPJ
08-01-2012, 03:28 PM
The front office is broken...the scouts, medical team, coaching staff and just about everything that could go wrong with this teams front office has.

edavis0308
08-01-2012, 03:30 PM
Everytime something negative happens you idiots think an overhaul is needed in the front office. It's pretty obvious TR doesn't like what happened here. Did TR diagnose this? Did TR hurt Wimmers arm? Did TR tell Liriano to pitch like crap to start the season so his value would be garbage? Give him a chance to turn this around, HE HAS A PROVEN TRACK RECORD PEOPLE!!!!!

But nevermind the proven track record in the last five seasons or so of the poor handling of a large amount of injuries, not being able to correctly utilize the DL, trying to rest and rehab someone with a partically torn UCL (that does not heal itself), or publicly smearing people for being soft that end up having serious arm injuries, or the thought that their coddling ways have actually resulted in more and not less injuries. Other than that...

DPJ
08-01-2012, 03:31 PM
HE HAS A PROVEN TRACK RECORD PEOPLE!!!!!


So it should only take about 7-8 years for JR to turn this thing around, based off his proven track record.

twinswon1991
08-01-2012, 03:38 PM
Everytime something negative happens you idiots think an overhaul is needed in the front office. It's pretty obvious TR doesn't like what happened here. Did TR diagnose this? Did TR hurt Wimmers arm? Did TR tell Liriano to pitch like crap to start the season so his value would be garbage? Give him a chance to turn this around, HE HAS A PROVEN TRACK RECORD PEOPLE!!!!!

TR said he was going to address the training and medical staff issues during his first presser last fall but he failed to do so.

TR HAD a great track record over 10 years ago but he and his scouting department have done a terrible job of scouting and drafting for the last 10 years.

jokin
08-01-2012, 03:45 PM
Everytime something negative happens you idiots think an overhaul is needed in the front office. It's pretty obvious TR doesn't like what happened here. Did TR diagnose this? Did TR hurt Wimmers arm? Did TR tell Liriano to pitch like crap to start the season so his value would be garbage? Give him a chance to turn this around, HE HAS A PROVEN TRACK RECORD PEOPLE!!!!!Usually, perjorative name-calling along with massive overuse of caps indicates that you are on the losing side of the argument, but don't let me stop you from more in-depth analysis of how well the proven track record for the managment of this club has been over the last 7 years.

Boom Boom
08-01-2012, 03:47 PM
Everytime something negative happens you idiots think an overhaul is needed in the front office. It's pretty obvious TR doesn't like what happened here. Did TR diagnose this? Did TR hurt Wimmers arm? Did TR tell Liriano to pitch like crap to start the season so his value would be garbage? Give him a chance to turn this around, HE HAS A PROVEN TRACK RECORD PEOPLE!!!!!

Actually, those calling for a front office overhaul probably came to that conclusion long before Wimmers needed surgery.

Also... Ryan is going to have to deal with both higher expectations for this club and decreased patience from fans to get the ship righted. We're not in the Metrodome anymore and we can only blame Bill Smith for so long.

birdwatcher
08-01-2012, 03:59 PM
Ryan promised two things: 1) to evaluate the performance of those involved in the medical arena, and 2) to improve communication on medical matters.


He's doing exactly what he promised.


But of course, thrylos, you can't help yourself and want to portray it falsely. How do you live with being so dishonest?

mike wants wins
08-01-2012, 04:01 PM
I'm certainly perplexed, but it's not by Wimmers' injury.

I postively endorse this message, even if I'm not sure of its exact meaning.

greengoblinrulz
08-01-2012, 04:12 PM
I'd be interested in knowing what the Twins doctors' opinions are on rest/rehab for partial UCL tears vs. surgery.

It sure seems like every time we try rest and rehab it only kicks the can down the road, and could potentially damage the ligament even more in the short-term.
Would rather they show ANY results from a guy rehabbing that worked

DaTwins
08-01-2012, 04:15 PM
Everytime something negative happens you idiots think an overhaul is needed in the front office. It's pretty obvious TR doesn't like what happened here. Did TR diagnose this?

I'd like to second this statement. To me, TR seems fed up with the poor outcomes from rehab. I have a hard time blaming injury decisions on the F.O. moreso than the medical staff. Even Texas' genius F.O had Neftali Feliz sitting on the DL for a couple months before he was slated to get TJ.

chopper0080
08-01-2012, 04:16 PM
TR said he was going to address the training and medical staff issues during his first presser last fall but he failed to do so.

TR HAD a great track record over 10 years ago but he and his scouting department have done a terrible job of scouting and drafting for the last 10 years.

I am starting to believe the Twins organization needs an overhaul as well. I still think Terry Ryan and Ron Gardenhire are decent baseball people, but when individuals are in an organization for so long they can get stuck in a rut which is where I think we are now.

Personally, I would love to see Terry Francona brought in to manage next year, but I doubt it happens.

nicksaviking
08-01-2012, 04:16 PM
Ryan promised two things: 1) to evaluate the performance of those involved in the medical arena, and 2) to improve communication on medical matters.


He's doing exactly what he promised.


But of course, thrylos, you can't help yourself and want to portray it falsely. How do you live with being so dishonest?\

Wow, kick a guy who hasn't even posted in this thread?

Perhaps Ryan has accomplished the 2 goals stated above. I think the frustration in this thread stems from the assumed outcome of the statetd goals. Fixing the problem with the medical evaluations. If that outcome has been achieved than goal two was not accomplished because no solution has been communicated to the public.

jokin
08-01-2012, 04:29 PM
I'd like to second this statement. To me, TR seems fed up with the poor outcomes from rehab. I have a hard time blaming injury decisions on the F.O. moreso than the medical staff.Wow, major news flash in Minnesota, TR has seemed to come around to being "fed up about poor outcomes from rehab". Last time I checked, the medical staff answers to the FO, so that one's a non-starter too. As I posted in the other thread, there was plenty of egg on the face for management from the Scott Baker fiasco last March. Do you have any grasp at how lame it sounds to start going public about being fed up about poor outcomes about the medical/training situation at this late date?

SpiritofVodkaDave
08-01-2012, 04:33 PM
This is Ryan's first year back at the helm, last time he was GM they weren't having these issues with the medical team. I agree changes need to be made, but what is he supposed to do? Fire everyone in the middle of the season? I imagine a lot of these doctors have contracts with the team as well, hopefully he evaluates what is wrong during the off-season, fire who needs to be fired and make the changes that need to be made.

jokin
08-01-2012, 04:35 PM
I am starting to believe the Twins organization needs an overhaul as well. I still think Terry Ryan and Ron Gardenhire are decent baseball people, but when individuals are in an organization for so long they can get stuck in a rut which is where I think we are now.Personally, I would love to see Terry Francona brought in to manage next year, but I doubt it happens.Welcome to the club on the first paragraph...Here! Here! on the second.

Highabove
08-01-2012, 04:36 PM
Ryan promised accountability up and down the Organization.

Medical Staff???????? I'll be waiting.

jokin
08-01-2012, 04:39 PM
This is Ryan's first year back at the helm, last time he was GM they weren't having these issues with the medical team. I agree changes need to be made, but what is he supposed to do? Fire everyone in the middle of the season? I imagine a lot of these doctors have contracts with the team as well, hopefully he evaluates what is wrong during the off-season, fire who needs to be fired and make the changes that need to be made.But Dave, it isn't like TR just parachuted in from Tasmania, he has been an arm's length consultant to the team during his hiatus from GM. These problems have been well documented, and as a previous poster noted, was addressed by TR as an immediate priority in his first press conference last fall. And then came the Baker debacle...

SpiritofVodkaDave
08-01-2012, 04:44 PM
But Dave, it isn't like TR just parachuted in from Tasmania, he has been an arm's length consultant to the team during his hiatus from GM. These problems have been well documented, and as a previous poster noted, was addressed by TR as an immediate priority in his first press conference last fall. And then came the Baker debacle...
Again as it has been mentioned before you don't just go around and fire everyone, it is apparent from his latest statements that changes will be made this off-season.

The Baker "debacle" still puzzles me, multiple doctors didn't think he needed Tommy John and they only found out he needed it once they cut him open. That whole thing was bizzarre.

jokin
08-01-2012, 04:46 PM
Again as it has been mentioned before you don't just go around and fire everyone, it is apparent from his latest statements that changes will be made this off-season. The Baker "debacle" still puzzles me, multiple doctors didn't think he needed Tommy John and they only found out he needed it once they cut him open. That whole thing was bizzarre.Especially the part about calling Baker "soft"? When a pitcher says he has pain when he pitches, it invaraibly mean there is a problem. Baker pitched with pain for years and was poorly served by management and medical staff, alike. It was a debacle.

Nick Nelson
08-01-2012, 04:55 PM
This is Ryan's first year back at the helm, last time he was GM they weren't having these issues with the medical team. I agree changes need to be made, but what is he supposed to do? Fire everyone in the middle of the season? I imagine a lot of these doctors have contracts with the team as well, hopefully he evaluates what is wrong during the off-season, fire who needs to be fired and make the changes that need to be made.

Right. I suspect that Ryan is working more closely with the medical team this year to try and get an idea of where the problem areas are. The answer isn't simply to fire everyone involved with the operation and try to find replacements. The quotes in the article lead me to believe that TR is getting fed up and that changes will be coming, in some form.

jokin
08-01-2012, 05:04 PM
Right. I suspect that Ryan is working more closely with the medical team this year to try and get an idea of where the problem areas are. The answer isn't simply to fire everyone involved with the operation and try to find replacements. The quotes in the article lead me to believe that TR is getting fed up and that changes will be coming, in some form.

If you read between the lines at his first presser last fall, he was fed up then. What has changed in 9 months? "More fed up?"

I don't recall the simple answer is to fire everyone involved. But this situation is akin to the signing of Nishioka. To this day, no one knows for sure who pushed for him and who greenlighted it to Smith's desk- let alone held anyone accountable for that particular $15M debacle.

Brock Beauchamp
08-01-2012, 05:50 PM
But this situation is akin to the signing of Nishioka. To this day, no one knows for sure who pushed for him and who greenlighted it to Smith's desk- let alone held anyone accountable for that particular $15M debacle.

Nor should the fans know who pushed for him. That was Smith's decision and his alone. Part of his job is to take responsibility for poor decisions and shield those who made them. Any reprimanding should happen behind closed doors, not in the court of public perception.

For all we know, that guy/gal has been fired. And that's the way it should be. The public face of the organization takes blame for mis-steps, not the lower echelon rank-and-file.

TheLeviathan
08-01-2012, 06:03 PM
This has gone from maddening, to funny, back to maddening, back to funny. I think at this point I'm burnt out on this garbage.

snepp
08-01-2012, 06:37 PM
This has gone from maddening, to funny, back to maddening, back to funny. I think at this point I'm burnt out on this garbage.

You just need to settle into a nice maddeningly funny frame of mind.

CDog
08-01-2012, 11:23 PM
Especially the part about calling Baker "soft"? When a pitcher says he has pain when he pitches, it invaraibly mean there is a problem. Baker pitched with pain for years and was poorly served by management and medical staff, alike. It was a debacle.

In at least two other threads there are mountains of quotes and evidence--much of it even supplied from the people who were trying to blame Gardenhire and Ryan--that Baker withheld information and repeatedly and publicly said he was fine. That his velocity would come. That he wasn't the least bit worried about it. That it was tendonitis and that he dealt with it every spring. That he would be able to make his home opener start (one could even take that he implied he was upset that the manager and general manager etc may not let him). So there's that. Again.

SpiritofVodkaDave
08-02-2012, 12:08 AM
I can't state it enough.

Both Baker and the Twins had every reason in the world to try to do everything but resort to surgery this season.

Why? Baker was/is an impending free agent.

Baker loses a ton of value by missing the season, and the Twins lose out all value on what was now a short term investment.

jokin
08-02-2012, 12:22 AM
In at least two other threads there are mountains of quotes and evidence--much of it even supplied from the people who were trying to blame Gardenhire and Ryan--that Baker withheld information and repeatedly and publicly said he was fine. That his velocity would come. That he wasn't the least bit worried about it. That it was tendonitis and that he dealt with it every spring. That he would be able to make his home opener start (one could even take that he implied he was upset that the manager and general manager etc may not let him). So there's that. Again.

Because that's what true competitors always say (oft-times against their own long-term best interests). They don't make excuses or equivocate, they just say, "give me the ball". You conveniently ignore the loads of evidence of mishandling by management in this situation. It's up to the professional coaches and medical staff to accurately assess the actual situation of such a valuable team asset as the Team Ace Starter. Every quote all spring from Ryan- up to, and practically including the day that they shut Baker down- was how Baker was just fine, definitely not injured, he just had to get the elbow loose. This was the public face put on, despite Baker's gross lack of velocity and control. In the meantime they were apparently back-channeling some bad-mouthing about Baker to certain scribes about Baker's willingness to tough it out.

Mchans24
08-02-2012, 01:24 AM
Actually, those calling for a front office overhaul probably came to that conclusion long before Wimmers needed surgery.

Also... Ryan is going to have to deal with both higher expectations for this club and decreased patience from fans to get the ship righted. We're not in the Metrodome anymore and we can only blame Bill Smith for so long.


Hes got at least four years of blaming Smith.........see Obama! Lol

CDog
08-02-2012, 09:26 AM
You conveniently ignore the loads of evidence of mishandling by management in this situation.

Nope, sorry. That lie isn't going to fly. I read every word about it on 4 different sites at the time it was happening. I read and quoted most of it all over again two or three different times as it's come up on here.

DPJ
08-02-2012, 09:28 AM
Nope, sorry. That lie isn't going to fly. I read every word about it on 4 different sites at the time it was happening. I read and quoted most of it all over again two or three different times as it's come up on here.

WOW...this is just wow.

TheLeviathan
08-02-2012, 09:32 AM
Nope, sorry. That lie isn't going to fly. I read every word about it on 4 different sites at the time it was happening. I read and quoted most of it all over again two or three different times as it's come up on here.

You know what would help this truly insane position you hold? If you just acknowledged that the way they handled it with the media compared to Pavano was wrong. Then, at least on some level, you'd warrant credibility on this.

CDog
08-02-2012, 09:49 AM
You know what would help this truly insane position you hold? If you just acknowledged that the way they handled it with the media compared to Pavano was wrong. Then, at least on some level, you'd warrant credibility on this.

I would be willing to bet that you couldn't say what position I hold on this, because you've repeatedly misrepresented it, put your own spin on it, and jumped to conclusions that aren't supported by what I've actually said on it. HEY...that's just like the original situation in question! That's kinda interesting.

TheLeviathan
08-02-2012, 09:54 AM
I would be willing to bet that you couldn't say what position I hold on this, because you've repeatedly misrepresented it, put your own spin on it, and jumped to conclusions that aren't supported by what I've actually said on it. HEY...that's just like the original situation in question! That's kinda interesting.

You take issue everytime it's suggested that the Twins handled this situation poorly. If you don't care to articulate your position, don't whine when people have to make assumptions.

This is now the third time I've asked you to explain your position. By all means - because what you convey is pure insanity in defending a mishandled situation.

CDog
08-02-2012, 10:14 AM
You take issue everytime it's suggested that the Twins handled this situation poorly. If you don't care to articulate your position, don't whine when people have to make assumptions.

This is now the third time I've asked you to explain your position. By all means - because what you convey is pure insanity in defending a mishandled situation.

The first sentence is just not true. I take issue every time someone tries to exaggerate, lie, or misrepresent what the situation was or how it was handled. I've articulated very clearly in other topics on this subject and in other threads and conversations where it's more directly on topic that if you (general you) look at facts, quotes, situations and come to a conclusion that something was done poorly or mishandled then that's your opinion and that is all it is. If you make up BS, add your own "facts" to the situation, or misrepresent what happened to try and pass off your opinion...well that's garbage and makes you (general you) a (br)ass (b)owl.

The boiled down version of what happened (again, because I "have to" I guess): Baker kept going out and throwing around 10 mph slower than he's normally been capable. He kept saying he was fine over and over (we later found he was not) and that he wasn't remotely concerned about his velocity returning. Gardnhire and Ryan eventually got fed up and said if he's fine, then he needs to show it. That's my "position." I don't know if I've ever stated an opinion on it, to be honest. I'm not sure it matters. If you'd like it, here it is: Baker overestimated himself and probably believed he would get healthy. Athletes are often ridiculously self-delusional in that way. And because of that he didn't really think he was "lying" to the trainers, etc, but he was. Gardenhire and Ryan probably should have expressed their thoughts to the media more carefully. Frustration leads to things coming out wrong or seeming like they're said with different intent than they are. The end.

TheLeviathan
08-02-2012, 10:26 AM
Frustration leads to things coming out wrong or seeming like they're said with different intent than they are. The end.

So it's ok for you to assume what Gardy and Ryan "intended" to say but not others? You just assume they meant well, others assume they meant to dog him. You're climbing all over people for the exact same thing you're doing, just with different opinions. No one denies Baker was lying. The difference is they assume he was lying precisely because he didn't want to be labeled soft and have the team go to the media. They did anyway, but about his lying. (Poor guy can't win!) And then, hypocritically just a month later, brushed Pavano doing the same thing under the rug!

It's real simple - Baker should have been more honest. But this is also a club that has made it quite known to the public (and thus the players) that they don't like whiners. Slowey, Perkins, and many others have been listed as examples of this. Baker may have felt forced to put on his tough guy hat because otherwise he'd get Slowey'd. There is nothing more valid about your version of the events than anyone else - quit trying to pretend you have any facts that back you up. You're making assumptions.

The real hypocrisy, and why this deserves to be ripped, is because they went public about Baker and then were quiet, unassuming, and still complimentary about the EXACT SAME SITUATION with Pavano. ("The guy was trying to gut it out") Hell, at least Baker was just lying about ST starts - Pavano was hurting the team when the games counted and they STILL didn't say a word about him to the media.

CDog
08-02-2012, 10:41 AM
So it's ok for you to assume what Gardy and Ryan "intended" to say but not others? You just assume they meant well, others assume they meant to dog him. You're climbing all over people for the exact same thing you're doing, just with different opinions. No one denies Baker was lying. The difference is they assume he was lying precisely because he didn't want to be labeled soft and have the team go to the media. They did anyway, but about his lying. (Poor guy can't win!) And then, hypocritically just a month later, brushed Pavano doing the same thing under the rug!

It's real simple - Baker should have been more honest. But this is also a club that has made it quite known to the public (and thus the players) that they don't like whiners. Slowey, Perkins, and many others have been listed as examples of this. Baker may have felt forced to put on his tough guy hat because otherwise he'd get Slowey'd. There is nothing more valid about your version of the events than anyone else - quit trying to pretend you have any facts that back you up. You're making assumptions.

The real hypocrisy, and why this deserves to be ripped, is because they went public about Baker and then were quiet, unassuming, and still complimentary about the EXACT SAME SITUATION with Pavano. ("The guy was trying to gut it out") Hell, at least Baker was just lying about ST starts - Pavano was hurting the team when the games counted and they STILL didn't say a word about him to the media.

Except I haven't assumed what Gardy and Ryan were intending to say. I have read what they actually said. Which has really been my whole point. I don't get why you want to keep picking this same scab and trying to claim things that just aren't true. It makes no sense. And as for picking scabs, the Pavano thing is a different situation and has been discussed elsewhere so there's no point in beating our heads into the wall there.

TheLeviathan
08-02-2012, 10:45 AM
Except I haven't assumed what Gardy and Ryan were intending to say. I have read what they actually said. Which has really been my whole point. I don't get why you want to keep picking this same scab and trying to claim things that just aren't true. It makes no sense. And as for picking scabs, the Pavano thing is a different situation and has been discussed elsewhere so there's no point in beating our heads into the wall there.

How is Pavano any different!?! He pitched with no strength in his arm for multiple starts until the team pulled him. The only difference, is that Pavano was hurting the team when it counts!

And yes, you are assuming intention. You're assuming that what they said should be taken at pure face value, with no intent to hurt Baker. That is an assumption. It's a particularly big assumption when you take into account the fact that this team has passive-aggressively dogged multiple players in recent years. That list is also well stated on the forum.

Your position is akin to sticking your fingers in your ears and singing "la la la" because you refuse to acknowledge the team handled it poorly. There was ZERO reason to go to the media with any of those concerns. But they did it to Baker and protected their boy Pavano to the bitter end.

CDog
08-02-2012, 11:11 AM
How is Pavano any different!?! He pitched with no strength in his arm for multiple starts until the team pulled him. The only difference, is that Pavano was hurting the team when it counts!

And yes, you are assuming intention. You're assuming that what they said should be taken at pure face value, with no intent to hurt Baker. That is an assumption. It's a particularly big assumption when you take into account the fact that this team has passive-aggressively dogged multiple players in recent years. That list is also well stated on the forum.

Your position is akin to sticking your fingers in your ears and singing "la la la" because you refuse to have the same opinion that I do. .

Not going to re-hash the reasons they're different situations. They are obvious, many, and I already did it once so I don't see the point in doing it again.

No, I'm not. I read what was reported, took it for what it was, have my own opinions on it. I've not once tried to claim they said something they didn't, nor denied things they did. I don't get why you keep claiming that I have. It's one thing to be obstinate, it's another to invent things to complain about that haven't even taken place. I believe it's what you like to refer to as trolling.

And I fixed your final paragraph in the quote above.

TheLeviathan
08-02-2012, 11:21 AM
nor denied things they did.

Delusional. Check. We all got it - no need to respond the next time someone posts something about how the team mishandled his situation to the press.

You're absolutely right that you've said it to death - I'm done trying to help you see your own delusion.

CDog
08-02-2012, 12:11 PM
Delusional. Check. We all got it - no need to respond the next time someone posts something about how the team mishandled his situation to the press.

You're absolutely right that you've said it to death - I'm done trying to help you see your own delusion.

Yes, speaking only about actual quotes (and providing them) and keeping my opinion about them to myself until directly asked is very, very delusional.

CDog
08-02-2012, 12:15 PM
quit trying to pretend you have any facts that back you up.

You mean like providing the actual quotes?

I promise this, when someone comes along and claims Ryan or Gardenhire said something like, "Baker is the toughest guy on our team and we're happy with him throwing 85 mph" that I'll be first in line to point out that it's garbage. I'll probably even provide the actual quotes.

CDog
08-02-2012, 12:22 PM
You just assume they meant well, others assume they meant to dog him.

he didn't want to be labeled soft and have the team go to the media. They did anyway.

I actually never assumed that, nor ever stated that. I've provided what was actually said. For the millionth time (number provided is an estimate), you've decided what I think despite no evidence and decided to try and pick a fight over it. Do you need something to complain about THAT badly that you have to invent them?

As for the second part there, that cute little bit of fiction is pretty awesome. You've imagined a scenario and decided that it's fact. Is there some chance they (Gardy/Ryan) were ASKED about the situation somewhere in the neighborhood of 20 times by various reporters? Maybe 100 times? 10? Or that they ran right over to find the nearest reporter that they could bitch to?

TheLeviathan
08-02-2012, 12:32 PM
May whatever diety you believe in help you - cuz living in a purely literal world has to make you one goofy sucker. I pity your inability to see context and implication. Yo're like a goofy SNL caricature.

"the man who can only understand literal meaning"

When Slowey said "I cant throw out of the pen" were you bashing Blyleven and the other clowns? How abput Perkins? Nevermind I'm sure you'll hide behind "different situations." Jesus.

TheLeviathan
08-02-2012, 12:39 PM
I Maybe 100 times? 10? Or that they ran right over to find the nearest reporter that they could bitch to?

I hear Sid had a gun. Made Gardy say it!

old nurse
08-02-2012, 01:00 PM
I hear Sid had a gun. Made Gardy say it!

This has gone from maddening, to funny, back to maddening, back to funny. I think at this point I'm burnt out on this garbage.

On this thread I am going to agree with what you said earlier

Willihammer
08-02-2012, 01:25 PM
The real hypocrisy, and why this deserves to be ripped, is because they went public about Baker and then were quiet, unassuming, and still complimentary about the EXACT SAME SITUATION with Pavano. ("The guy was trying to gut it out") Hell, at least Baker was just lying about ST starts - Pavano was hurting the team when the games counted and they STILL didn't say a word about him to the media.
Yes the FO pandered to the rubes who after 2011 contructed a toughness dichotomy whereby Mauer, Morneau were 'softies' and Pavano, Capps, Nathan, were 'tough guys.' The FO was and continues to be in denial regarding their susceptibility to the current league-wide TJ epidemic. In reality, the Twins are as immune to broken elbows as Aunt Jemima is immune to diabetes. If the doctors hastened to perform TJ then the blame falls to the soft-tossing contact philosophy and thus the FO who preaches it at all levels of the system.

diehardtwinsfan
08-02-2012, 03:36 PM
I'm pretty sure the toughness dichotomy comes from Gardy more than anything else He has his guys. Pavano and Capps were quite clearly his guys and were treated accordingly. It didn't matter that they were ineffective.

Brock Beauchamp
08-02-2012, 04:04 PM
A reminder to everyone. NO PERSONAL INSULTS.

You can call an idea a bad one but you can't call a person an idiot. Attack the idea, not the person. It's not hard.

With that said, tone it down a little in this thread. I know we're all frustrated with the team but there's no reason to start making it personal.

SpiritofVodkaDave
08-02-2012, 04:08 PM
It's not a forum issue, its an issue of a couple of posters. I'm not a fan of bannings, but when threads are getting derailed left and right by the same 2 or 3 you should think about issuing out some temp bans or something pig.

It has nothing to do with positive or negative, there are a couple people who continue to crap up the place. While I may not agree with a guy like Thrylos on many topics at least he brings value to threads in new information/new thoughts.

Brock Beauchamp
08-02-2012, 04:11 PM
I've been keeping track of the offenders, Dave. It's a frustrating time to be a Twins fan, we're all a little on edge. I'm giving everyone a little time to simmer down and if it doesn't improve, actions will be taken.

SpiritofVodkaDave
08-02-2012, 04:14 PM
I've been keeping track of the offenders, Dave.
Surprised you have had time to between your frequent frankenberry feedings these days.

Brock Beauchamp
08-02-2012, 04:24 PM
Surprised you have had time to between your frequent frankenberry feedings these days.

I haven't gotten much sleep, that's for sure.

jokin
08-02-2012, 06:14 PM
I've been keeping track of the offenders, Dave. It's a frustrating time to be a Twins fan, we're all a little on edge. I'm giving everyone a little time to simmer down and if it doesn't improve, actions will be taken.

Good, ironic that a name-calling insulter should be the immediate post after yours calling for the banning of insulters. I have no doubt you are keeping track of the "spirit" of intention in Dave's personal insults when he chooses the path of most obtusivity.

Highabove
08-02-2012, 06:20 PM
Surprised you have had time to between your frequent frankenberry feedings these days.

Frankenberry?? That brings back childhood memories. LOL



https://encrypted-tbn3.google.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcToi_7dS3RAYf4HAIKABPytXDqI28ULr 2MqN7ZqXf7w04vNNlOxhg

old nurse
08-02-2012, 10:05 PM
Good, ironic that a name-calling insulter should be the immediate post after yours calling for the banning of insulters. I have no doubt you are keeping track of the "spirit" of intention in Dave's personal insults when he chooses the path of most obtusivity.


"And with an operator like Pohlad who makes a living creating wiggle-room in every single word he utters"

Of course jokin is innocent of ever saying something offensive. Most people posting have a hard time being critical without being nasty in their comments once or twice. If it is Rocket Pig's job to moderate we all need to try a little harder to frame comments in a constructive manner. Being clever or sarcastic is a difficult thing to do well.
I prefer Capt Crunch to Frankenberry. My question is, was the Frankenberry found in the dumpster behind Cub?

jokin
08-02-2012, 11:41 PM
"And with an operator like Pohlad who makes a living creating wiggle-room in every single word he utters"

Of course jokin is innocent of ever saying something offensive. Most people posting have a hard time being critical without being nasty in their comments once or twice. If it is Rocket Pig's job to moderate we all need to try a little harder to frame comments in a constructive manner. Being clever or sarcastic is a difficult thing to do well.
I prefer Capt Crunch to Frankenberry. My question is, was the Frankenberry found in the dumpster behind Cub?

I sincerely apologize to you oldnurse if you find my characterization of what a good businessman or politician does as a matter of course as somehow offensive or de-constructive. I sincerely doubt that JPohlad would find any offense in my statement should he accidentally happen upon Twins Daily (not holding my breath that he even knows TD exists).