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Nick Nelson
07-30-2012, 02:20 PM
Last year, the Twins traded Delmon Young to the first-place Tigers in return for marginal prospects.

This year, the Twins traded Francisco Liriano to the first-place White Sox in return for marginal prospects.

This isn't a complaint about the trades themselves (though they sucked), but am I the only one who finds the act of helping strengthen a division rival for a deep postseason run entirely too... chummy?

DPJ
07-30-2012, 02:23 PM
If it's the best package who the hell cares what team is comes from.

Now if you have two equal packages of players then take the one that's got the less chance to come back and hurt you.

crarko
07-30-2012, 02:25 PM
Not if they make the best offer. And in the case of Liriano, as a free agent he goes where they make the best offer at the end of the year. So it really doesn't matter.

Musk21
07-30-2012, 02:28 PM
I've gotta agree with Nick here. If, as reports have indicated, there were multiple teams interested in Liriano, then I find it extremely hard to believe that there wasn't a slightly better or even comparable package offered outside of the division. I'm sure the Twins are in love with Escobar's glove though.

J-Dog Dungan
07-30-2012, 02:30 PM
I feel like they were the best trades we were going to get for them, and, honestly, both players should have been traded before they were. Detroit is now seeing just how much "fun" it is to have Delmonzie on their team, and we got a fairly good relief prospect in Oliveros and Cole Nelson, the other piece we acquired in that trade, ain't doing that bad in Ft. Myers. We will just have to see how both of these trades play out over the long run, especially after everyone thought we got robbed on the Diamond deal.

DPJ
07-30-2012, 02:37 PM
I've gotta agree with Nick here. If, as reports have indicated, there were multiple teams interested in Liriano, then I find it extremely hard to believe that there wasn't a slightly better or even comparable package offered outside of the division. I'm sure the Twins are in love with Escobar's glove though.

I find it hard to believe that the Twins said "well we have better offers from other teams that aren't in our division and the our main rival, but screw it. Lets ship him to the Sox for a crappy arm and a crappy Punto-esqe infielder"

scottz
07-30-2012, 02:37 PM
I guess the question is whether you believe the Twins are taking lesser deals from division rivals to be chummy. I don't see a benefit to that, and I don't think that is what occurred the last two years.

It makes sense to me that it is possible that a GM might interact with a division rival GM more frequently because they know each other's rosters a little more than other teams? And maybe to the extent that because you have frequent "contact" (i.e., lots of games versus divisional foes each year) that it wouldn't be a bad thing to be chummy, in general. But again, I don't think any chumminess resulted in the acceptance of a lesser deal.

mike wants wins
07-30-2012, 02:41 PM
No, if these were the best deals, they should take them. It would he shortsighted to pass just to not help a division rival. How is it worse than trading with any other team? Actually, if it is a rental player for prospects, you are theoretically helping yourself even more in the long run by weakening a rival's future.

DPJ
07-30-2012, 02:42 PM
If there's anything to rip on the way the Twins handled this trade was not waiting til the last moment on the deadline. If the best offered was this ****-ass package, then wait it out and maybe a guy gets hurt or a team panics and does something stupid.

Who ****ing cares about the division?

Musk21
07-30-2012, 02:43 PM
I find it hard to believe that the Twins said "well we have better offers from other teams that aren't in our division and the our main rival, but screw it. Lets ship him to the Sox for a crappy arm and a crappy Punto-esqe infielder"

Something tells me that the Twins don't think of these 2 as "a crappy arm and a crappy Punto-esqe infielder" even if scouting reports tell us otherwise.

DPJ
07-30-2012, 02:45 PM
Something tells me that the Twins don't think of these 2 as "a crappy arm and a crappy Punto-esqe infielder" even if scouting reports tell us otherwise.

Well what the hell do you expect them to say "yeah this package sucks ass, but it's the best we could do for a guy we didn't want to keep longterm"

birdwatcher
07-30-2012, 02:46 PM
What strategy could be more brilliant than to weaken teams in your own division by sending them your Delmon Youngs and Francisco Lirianos?

jorgenswest
07-30-2012, 03:05 PM
Both of these cases were similar in the following ways.

1) The Twins were out of the race at the time of the trade.
2) Both players would be freely available in the off season.

In this situation, I think the Twins were correct to take the best deal.

It is a different situation if they were to trade Span who is under contract in future years. The deal from the in division rival would have to be significantly better than offers from other teams.

SpiritofVodkaDave
07-30-2012, 03:08 PM
By trading Delmon Young and Liriano within the division the Twins very well could have been helping themselves out.
Delmon sucks, is getting paid quite a bit of money, can't field, and has a sub .700 OPS while hitting behind Prince and Miggy.
In fact Delmon has a -0.6 WAR on the season. If anything the Twins helped themselves out last year and this year as well by trading him in the division.

DPJ
07-30-2012, 03:13 PM
By trading Delmon Young and Liriano within the division the Twins very well could have been helping themselves out.
Delmon sucks, is getting paid quite a bit of money, can't field, and has a sub .700 OPS while hitting behind Prince and Miggy.
In fact Delmon has a -0.6 WAR on the season. If anything the Twins helped themselves out last year and this year as well by trading him in the division.

Yeah, the Tigers might be 15 games ahead of the Twins if it wasn't for that cold-blooded trade of Delmon.

Bill Smith you evil bastard.

powrwrap
07-30-2012, 03:15 PM
...am I the only one who finds the act of helping strengthen a division rival for a deep postseason run entirely too... chummy?

On a scale of 1 to 10 I'd put the irritation level at about a 5. If it were the Ozzie Guillen White Sox I would put it at a 7.

Last 80 times I looked the Twins are not going to make the playoffs so you've got to take what you can get from wherever it's offered.

IdahoPilgrim
07-30-2012, 03:24 PM
Last year, the Twins traded Delmon Young to the first-place Tigers in return for marginal prospects.

This year, the Twins traded Francisco Liriano to the first-place White Sox in return for marginal prospects.

This isn't a complaint about the trades themselves (though they sucked), but am I the only one who finds the act of helping strengthen a division rival for a deep postseason run entirely too... chummy?

One could argue that both trades served to do the exact opposite.

We'll know better after Tuesday.

Nick Nelson
07-30-2012, 03:39 PM
I'll fully admit that my take is based on emotion and not logic. In principle, helping the White Sox in any way appalls me.

Forgot to mention that they also traded Jim Thome to the Indians last year. It's like the Twins are becoming the farm system of the AL Central.

SpiritofVodkaDave
07-30-2012, 03:46 PM
I'll fully admit that my take is based on emotion and not logic. In principle, helping the White Sox in any way appalls me.

Forgot to mention that they also traded Jim Thome to the Indians last year. It's like the Twins are becoming the farm system of the AL Central.

Didn't the Twins get Pavano from the Indians for Pino? That helped out the team quite a bit to be honest. Might as well return the favor (I believe Thome specifically asked to be traded to Cleveland anyways), some day when the White Sox or Indians are down and out and the Twins are in a race hopefully they can give us a rental for cheap as well.

I know we all hate the white sox, but it seems like the managers/GM's/Org have always had a lot of respect for each other. I liked ozzie, like Ventura and Williams and they have plenty of guys who are nice to root for (Konerko, Peavy, AJ), the things that make me hate them are the fans and Hawk.

birdwatcher
07-30-2012, 03:48 PM
If Detroit ekes out the division title, it will be on the back of their MVP Delmon Young. Clearly.

Winston Smith
07-30-2012, 03:59 PM
Take the best offer no matter what team makes it otherwise you are making your own team weaker! If you aren't taking the best offer you should be fired!

mike wants wins
07-30-2012, 04:05 PM
Actually, Nick, it is the opposite. The twins are generally getting thw young guys, it is like the other teams are farm systems for them.

drjim
07-30-2012, 08:43 PM
No problem in the least if this was the best offer for Liriano.

Twins didn't have a choice with Thome or Delmon, they were both claimed on waivers and it was either trade to those teams or keep them to the end of the season.