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jorgenswest
07-29-2012, 07:55 PM
Watching Casilla get regular play this week, I wonder what the Twins plan for him.

Should they continue to give him regular time when Plouffe returns?

His one outstanding measure this year is UZR. Can his defense carry his bat? The new frontier in baseball understanding is defense impact on wins. I hope the Twins are pioneers I this area. Maybe defense means very little and batting is everything. Maybe not.

I suggest the Twins start him regularly at 2B the rest of the way. Let's see if he can maintain his UZR.

Trade Carroll for anything. Push his 3.75 to pitching.

greengoblinrulz
07-29-2012, 08:17 PM
I dont believe anyone in the Twins organization understands what a UZR is...........

IdahoPilgrim
07-29-2012, 08:48 PM
I was making the same argument, that his defense warranted his place in the lineup, earlier this year, back when he was hitting around .240. He's fallen off at the plate, though, the past month or so, and it's harder to make that argument now. With the acquisition of Escobar and with Nishioka starting to shape up in Rochester, I would be very surprised if he is offered arbitration after the season is over.

I agree fully on Carroll.

drjim
07-29-2012, 08:52 PM
I dont believe anyone in the Twins organization understands what a UZR is...........

I consider that a net positive for the Twins organization.

At best, UZR can provide some information about who was a good defender 2-3 years after it happened.

Bark's Lounge
07-29-2012, 09:03 PM
Trade Carroll for anything. Push his 3.75 to pitching.

Easier said than done. If they can do it Fantastique! Money well saved and hopefully allocated to acquiring an upside player.

stringer bell
07-29-2012, 09:22 PM
I don't buy UZR either, but I do see a guy who makes a lot of fine plays. I've said on other threads that the Twins should play Casilla. I also said yesterday before the game that Casilla would probably be riding the pine when Valencia was recalled and he had earned that demotion. When everybody else is hitting, Casilla's poor offense isn't so noticeable, but the numbers don't lie--he just hasn't hit enough this year.

greengoblinrulz
07-29-2012, 09:51 PM
I am a huge believer of UZR. Hate judging defensive players by errors as official scoring is horrendous league wide.
Also hate listening to announcers continually saying a guy is an excellent defender when the numbers tell a different story. Some unfortunately judge a guy by the great highlight type plays also....doesnt show the plays he should have made that wasnt ruled an error.
UZR may not be perfect, but its better than goin on reputation/other numbers available

won4themoney
07-29-2012, 09:58 PM
You say his UZR is outstanding, we'll, what is it exactly?

drjim
07-29-2012, 09:59 PM
I am a huge believer of UZR. Hate judging defensive players by errors as official scoring is horrendous league wide.
Also hate listening to announcers continually saying a guy is an excellent defender when the numbers tell a different story. Some unfortunately judge a guy by the great highlight type plays also....doesnt show the plays he should have made that wasnt ruled an error.
UZR may not be perfect, but its better than goin on reputation/other numbers available

I'm pretty sure no one takes errors/fielding percentage seriously. And who cares what an announcer says?

Based on the interview that Ryan did with SABR a couple of weeks ago, I would guess they look at UZR and runs saved and all the other statistical measurements currently available, but don't value them nearly as high as scouting reports. And they shouldn't.

snepp
07-29-2012, 10:14 PM
I'm pretty sure no one takes errors/fielding percentage seriously.

You mean other than the vast majority of baseball fans that don't know any better?


Or are you referring to front office people?

drjim
07-29-2012, 10:30 PM
You mean other than the vast majority of baseball fans that don't know any better?


Or are you referring to front office people?

Anyone that takes analyzing defense seriously.

nokomismod
07-29-2012, 10:41 PM
Since Liriano has been traded, is Casilla the only Spanish speaking player left on the 25 man?

greengoblinrulz
07-29-2012, 10:41 PM
drjim
So if you are a fan, how do YOU anyalyze defense if you dont count errors, UZR, fielding percentage............curious

greengoblinrulz
07-29-2012, 10:44 PM
Since Liriano has been traded, is Casilla the only Spanish speaking player left on the 25 man?
Sam Deduno & Luis Perdomo Id guess
of course, Drew Butera cause there is nothing Drew cannot do

spideyo
07-30-2012, 07:20 AM
Too bad Drew can't hit as well as he can pitch, he could work his "latino whisperer" magic on Casilla

SpiritofVodkaDave
07-30-2012, 08:52 AM
On a rebuilding team there is zero room for a guy like Casilla, I'd prefer they trade him for anything at this point as I can't see them offering him a contract heading into next season.

DPJ
07-30-2012, 08:55 AM
On a rebuilding team there is zero room for a guy like Casilla, I'd prefer they trade him for anything at this point as I can't see them offering him a contract heading into next season.

WHOA WHOA WHOA...I thought the Twins were gonna be right in the thick of the postseason hunt next season?

SpiritofVodkaDave
07-30-2012, 08:59 AM
WHOA WHOA WHOA...I thought the Twins were gonna be right in the thick of the postseason hunt next season?
The Twins are rebuilding, that doens't mean they still can't put together a club capable of competeing if things break right in 2013. I never said they were going to be in the thick of anything, just that in this division if they can address the SP issues successfully through trades and FA they could have a shot as long as things break right (Gibson and Hendriks would need to step up, Mauer/Morneau/Willingham healthy etc).

They are a .500 team since May,they aren't nearly as far away as the chicken littles of this board are claiming.

DPJ
07-30-2012, 09:01 AM
They are a .500 team since May,they aren't nearly as far away as the chicken littles of this board are claiming.

Gotta love cherry-picking numbers.

TheLeviathan
07-30-2012, 09:14 AM
I hear the Twins are a 1.000 team since Friday. Why aren't we buying?

SpiritofVodkaDave
07-30-2012, 09:23 AM
Gotta love cherry-picking numbers.

They had a horrendous start and have been playing better since May, which is around the same time they started giving Plouffe playing time, Diamond to the rotation, Mauer started hitting well etc. If they go .500 the rest of the way we are looking at a 75 win team or so. While that is nothing special its not unheard of for a team to go from 75 to 85+ wins in a season, especially when the Twins have some nice money coming off the books this year and won't be losing anyone of real value (unless they are traded)

At this point the Twins are pretty solid offensively, defensively and relief pitching. They need SP help in a big way but if they can someone trade for/sign a couple effective starters and Gibson/Hendriks step up we could be looking at a winning ball club as early as next year.

DPJ
07-30-2012, 09:27 AM
They had a horrendous start and have been playing better since May, which is around the same time they started giving Plouffe playing time, Diamond to the rotation, Mauer started hitting well etc. If they go .500 the rest of the way we are looking at a 75 win team or so. While that is nothing special its not unheard of for a team to go from 75 to 85+ wins in a season, especially when the Twins have some nice money coming off the books this year and won't be losing anyone of real value (unless they are traded)

Yeah, you're just cherry picking stats that are meaningless.

It's a horriable team Dave and if the front office is stupid enough to adjust there offseason gameplan cause of a meaning W/L record from an arbitrary point in the season, then this team is more screwed then I thought.

beckmt
07-30-2012, 09:43 AM
With Casilla's defense and lack of offense, he is just what is does now for the Twins, a utility infielder. I agree with the person who commented that they will probably not offer him arbitration at the end of the year. It is time to cut ties with this type of player. We have players in Rochester (3 to be exact) who could replace his production next year.

mike wants wins
07-30-2012, 10:04 AM
I basically agree that his best role is as a backup. For me, I would want those guys making the minimum, so I could put money into closing holes in the pitching. I would rather have one of the AAA players up here next year as the backup. And I think that is what they will do.

Blackjack
07-30-2012, 10:28 AM
Does anybody on this board ever listen to Terry Ryan? They should since he's running the show. TR likes consistency and good defense, thatís why he brought in Carol. He didn't offer a contract to Liriano because he was so inconsistent. Can you see the parallel with Liriano and Casilla?? Both can be great at times but wildly inconsistent. Because of that, Casilla will be gone next year, unless he has a very good, consistent last two months of the season.

Jim Crikket
07-30-2012, 10:55 AM
Gotta love cherry-picking numbers.

Yet 90% of the people around here think Terry Ryan should have brought in more value in trade for Liriano because of HIS numbers since May.

drjim
07-30-2012, 08:35 PM
drjim
So if you are a fan, how do YOU anyalyze defense if you dont count errors, UZR, fielding percentage............curious

I don't really rate defense and believe as a lay fan that I don't have the tools. I may take a cursory look at almost any set of numbers and try to understand them in context, but I would much rather read scouting reports.