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SpiritofVodkaDave
07-23-2012, 03:57 PM
It's on MLBtraderumors.com, basically they want a team to take his entire contract AND get a major league/major league ready player back.

I'd be sad to see the Canuck go, but if they could pull this off I wouldn't be opposed. If we got that 14 mil off the books next year Ryan could have some serious money to find us some SP help in free agency.

PMKI
07-23-2012, 04:03 PM
If we got rid of Morneau like you said I would definitely have some mixed emotions.

Winston Smith
07-23-2012, 04:07 PM
But would Ryan spend the extra money or would we just see the payroll go down into the 80's? I tend to think not all the savings would be spent.

mike wants wins
07-23-2012, 04:09 PM
That's like saying I'm shopping for a $100K car....they want someone to take the whole salary, and to give them a legit MLB player also?

PseudoSABR
07-23-2012, 04:18 PM
But would Ryan spend the extra money or would we just see the payroll go down into the 80's? I tend to think not all the savings would be spent.
Right. Moving Morneau only makes sense if you are going to spend that money. I'm not sure how that 14 mil could be spent next year to make us more competitive in the near future without binding us to a long term contract. Morneau on a one year deal, while not ideal, seems like an appropriate risk for a team that might not compete and given his history with the org.

nicksaviking
07-23-2012, 04:29 PM
Do we really want a "major leaguer" back? You wouldn't get much value there. If no prospects are being acquired, I'd hold onto him. As long as he's servicable like this year his value will be higher next year after most of his salary has already been paid.

PseudoSABR
07-23-2012, 04:38 PM
Do we really want a "major leaguer" back? You wouldn't get much value there. If no prospects are being acquired, I'd hold onto him. As long as he's servicable like this year his value will be higher next year after most of his salary has already been paid.Major leaguer might be a phrase used to characterize talent level rather than time-table for the big show. In other words, TR wont just dump Morneau's salary.

Thrylos
07-23-2012, 05:02 PM
I tried to find the source for this... it is Tim Brown's and the original is here (http://sports.yahoo.com/news/nationals-remain-players-for-big-pitching-names-after-averting-disaster-in-weekend-series-with-braves.html). From what he wrote (which is a whole sentence :) ) : The Twins are listening to other teams and not actively shopping him. Major difference. As far as the return goes, most likely he got the info from a team that asked the Twins for Morneau. That is what the Twins asked from that team. Not to assume that the asking price would be the same for every team... Also, TR was saying that he wanted A-level talent because he expects that at that level, the return will be better. Unless he is lying, something does not add up.

diehardtwinsfan
07-23-2012, 06:17 PM
mlbtraderumors intrerestingly enough basically said that Willingham is not on the block. I'd certainly be listening to offers for him, though admittedly my asking price would be very, very high.

Thrylos
07-23-2012, 06:21 PM
mlbtraderumors intrerestingly enough basically said that Willingham is not on the block. I'd certainly be listening to offers for him, though admittedly my asking price would be very, very high.

mlbtraderumors is aggregating content generated elsewhere. As far as Willingham goes, there have been 4 conflicting reports late last night and today. And from those reports you really have to go to the original source and see which are guesses by the writers (as in "it makes sense") and which actually report events (like actual discussions.) No reports of actual discussions about Willingham, which does not mean that they are not happening.

Willihammer
07-23-2012, 08:25 PM
A salary dump makes sense - theyu are carrying 3 catchers/DH's/1Bs after all

kab21
07-24-2012, 12:44 AM
I don't expect much salary relief from a Morneau trade. The best I see is a 50/50 split but the focus should be on getting a good prospect. If you don't get anything in return then you might as well hang onto Morneau since he'll be on a one year contract. That's the problem with having a lot of money available next year. Anyone that you sign will tie up payroll in future seasons. I would rather have that payroll available to use when the team has a chance of being good.

Shane Wahl
07-24-2012, 12:52 AM
Um, I really think that Liriano was the only true player on the block. Morneau still has a 14 million dollars coming to him next year and he isn't all that good. So . . .

twinsnorth49
07-24-2012, 02:29 AM
Um, I really think that Liriano was the only true player on the block. Morneau still has a 14 million dollars coming to him next year and he isn't all that good. So . . .


Not even sure what this means but to think Morneau can't be effective again is foolhardy. If Morneau has to go (which would kill me) it has to be for players of the future.

DPJ
07-24-2012, 10:09 AM
I'd love nothing more then to get rid of the stupid Canuck for anything.

He's god damn worthless at this point in his career, time for Parmelee era to begin.

stringer bell
07-24-2012, 10:18 AM
I'd love nothing more then to get rid of the stupid Canuck for anything.

He's god damn worthless at this point in his career, time for Parmelee era to begin.


I can't see Morneau being moved without the Twins keeping some of his salary or getting lesser players back. If they could get salary relief and a so-so prospect or two, they should take it.

diehardtwinsfan
07-24-2012, 05:19 PM
I don't see Morneau getting moved at all this season, and to be honest, I don't see it happening until this time next year. If he continues to improve, you should see something of value worth trading at the deadline next year.

twinswon1991
07-24-2012, 05:36 PM
Why would any team give up anything of value for Morneau given his injury(head) concerns, lack of production, and high contract. His salary makes him nearly worthless to other teams unless the Twins eat all but about 5 mil of it......at that point you almost have to keep him and hope he stays healthy.

minn55441
07-24-2012, 06:40 PM
When the Twin's were stinking things up in the 70's I became a Dodger's fan and still have them as my favorite national league team. James Loney has been a huge disappointment for the Dodger's. .248/.306/.331 with only 2HR for them in 2012. Anything would be an improvement from them. I was thinking they would be willing to just trade Loney for Mourneau straight up. Loney is only 28 and I think they have flat out given up on him. Not sure The Twin's would want him with Parmelee waiting in the wings.

J-Dog Dungan
07-24-2012, 07:57 PM
When the Twin's were stinking things up in the 70's I became a Dodger's fan and still have them as my favorite national league team. James Loney has been a huge disappointment for the Dodger's. .248/.306/.331 with only 2HR for them in 2012. Anything would be an improvement from them. I was thinking they would be willing to just trade Loney for Mourneau straight up. Loney is only 28 and I think they have flat out given up on him. Not sure The Twin's would want him with Parmelee waiting in the wings.








There is no way the Twins would or should agree to that deal. If they are going to deal with the Dodgers, they should ask for a above-average pitching prospect, not an underwhelming major league 1B.

jwestbrock
07-24-2012, 08:42 PM
I'd love nothing more then to get rid of the stupid Canuck for anything.

He's god damn worthless at this point in his career, time for Parmelee era to begin.

I wouldn't say he's worthless. He's .306/.379/.546 vs. righthanders. Good for a 144 OPS+ compared to other lefties vs. righties. He's just being weighted down by a .147/.185/.225 vs. lefties. Good for a 26 OPS+ compared to other lefties vs. lefties. He's a extreme platoon first baseman at this point, but far from worthless because he is mashing righties.

SpiritofVodkaDave
07-24-2012, 09:12 PM
I wouldn't say he's worthless. He's .306/.379/.546 vs. righthanders. Good for a 144 OPS+ compared to other lefties vs. righties. He's just being weighted down by a .147/.185/.225 vs. lefties. Good for a 26 OPS+ compared to other lefties vs. lefties. He's a extreme platoon first baseman at this point, but far from worthless because he is mashing righties.

He is also finally starting to hit lefties decently again, if he can continue that trend he has plenty of value as he is also very nice defensively. The more I think about it the more I think maybe the best course of option is holding onto him until next trade deadline season, if he can be hitting well at that point he could net some real nice pieces back in return.

Also FWIW if he proves healthy I wouldn't mind inking him to another 1-2 year deal after next year. Other then Sano there really isn't a player in the org who I would be excited about at first base anytime in the next few years. Parmelee could be nice but I'm not sold yet.

howeda7
07-24-2012, 11:21 PM
If anyone is willing to take his full contract, trade him for a bag of balls. This team has much more important things to spend $14 million on next year then a fading power hitter who's one bean ball away from retirement. And I have nothing against Morneau.

Loosey
07-24-2012, 11:37 PM
I honestly think he is turning a corner here. He isn't hitting for much power but we are seeing the average begin to climb and hopefully with that his confidence and power will come back as well. He is only 31 years old. I wouldn't trade him this season because I don't think the Twins will get a return that will help the team. Next year however if he continues to improve and we see a guy with 15-20 HR's and a .280+ average I think the Twins could net a big return OR could re sign him to a deal that would be much less than his current one due to the concussion concerns. That's my take.

Riverbrian
07-25-2012, 12:18 AM
If anyone is willing to take his full contract, trade him for a bag of balls. This team has much more important things to spend $14 million on next year then a fading power hitter who's one bean ball away from retirement. And I have nothing against Morneau.

I'd hate to be the guy who you have something against.

The injuries are a concern no doubt but it is quite possible that he can turn around and it can happen real quick.

diehardtwinsfan
07-25-2012, 08:28 AM
He is also finally starting to hit lefties decently again, if he can continue that trend he has plenty of value as he is also very nice defensively. The more I think about it the more I think maybe the best course of option is holding onto him until next trade deadline season, if he can be hitting well at that point he could net some real nice pieces back in return.

Also FWIW if he proves healthy I wouldn't mind inking him to another 1-2 year deal after next year. Other then Sano there really isn't a player in the org who I would be excited about at first base anytime in the next few years. Parmelee could be nice but I'm not sold yet.


Pretty much this. Morneau's value is better than last year, but still pretty much at a low. It looks like he's going to finish out the season (knocks on wood) and he appears to be turning a corner. That contract will look a lot less like an albatross next season at this time, and if he continues to progress, he will be in high demand come the deadline.

Trading him now will net exactly what? Most likely a Low a prospect with a limited ceiling. You don't build around those guys and the likelihood of him even making the big leagues is pretty slim. You may as well hold on and try to get something better, cause you won't get anything worse should Morneau get injured again or simply not pan out.

SpiritofVodkaDave
07-25-2012, 08:44 AM
Pretty much this. Morneau's value is better than last year, but still pretty much at a low. It looks like he's going to finish out the season (knocks on wood) and he appears to be turning a corner. That contract will look a lot less like an albatross next season at this time, and if he continues to progress, he will be in high demand come the deadline.

Trading him now will net exactly what? Most likely a Low a prospect with a limited ceiling. You don't build around those guys and the likelihood of him even making the big leagues is pretty slim. You may as well hold on and try to get something better, cause you won't get anything worse should Morneau get injured again or simply not pan out.
Also if you keep him around for 2013 you can atleast create the illusion that you are trying to compete, heading into next season the Twins more or less have a lineup that can win you ball games. If Gibson comes back healthy and they can some acquire a couple solid SP you could be looking at a .500 or so team, and in the central that means you are actually in the race most of the time!

DPJ
07-25-2012, 08:45 AM
Also if you keep him around for 2013 you can atleast create the illusion that you are trying to compete, heading into next season the Twins more or less have a lineup that can win you ball games. If Gibson comes back healthy and they can some acquire a couple solid SP you could be looking at a .500 or so team, and in the central that means you are actually in the race most of the time!

Keep hangin onto the dream Dave...never let go!

SpiritofVodkaDave
07-25-2012, 08:49 AM
Keep hangin onto the dream Dave...never let go!

It's reality. If the Twins want to hang onto their already dwindling season ticket holders for 2013 you have to give them some hope/etc for coming out to the ball park next year.

I'm not advocating selling the future off for 2013 and keeping the eye on really being competeitive for 2014, but at this point holding onto Morneau isn't going to cost us any top prospect or anything. (and if a team wants to over pay now, then trade him)

DPJ
07-25-2012, 08:52 AM
Cause Justin "Dizzy" Morneau is really driving ticket sales.

This **** is no different then the mid to late 90's. Keep an eye towards the future and countdown the clock till you get some of these bad contracts off the books.

SpiritofVodkaDave
07-25-2012, 08:56 AM
Cause Justin "Dizzy" Morneau is really driving ticket sales.

This **** is no different then the mid to late 90's. Keep an eye towards the future and countdown the clock till you get some of these bad contracts off the books.

It's quite a bit different. The Twins have a solid 25-30 million to spend in free agency this off-season to obtain some SP help. Also next year should be exciting with Gibson, Arcia, Benson, Hicks and possibly Rosario all seeing some time at the major league level.

Boom Boom
07-25-2012, 08:57 AM
Most season ticket holders are smart enough to know that standing pat on the Morneau situation isn't going to make this team any more competitive next year than they are right now. Hell, they already have Morneau and it doesn't matter.

If they can unload some of that salary, they might be able to sign players who would drive season ticket sales better than Morneau.

DPJ
07-25-2012, 08:59 AM
It's quite a bit different. The Twins have a solid 25-30 million to spend in free agency this off-season to obtain some SP help. Also next year should be exciting with Gibson, Arcia, Benson, Hicks and possibly Rosario all seeing some time at the major league level.

Yeah a bunch of prospect to sell hope from...it's totally not like the mid to late 90's.

Rosario...really?

diehardtwinsfan
07-25-2012, 09:01 AM
Whether anyone likes it or not, this team is going to try to compete in 2013. I'm not sure if hanging on to Morneau is going to help in that regard, though I'm hard pressed to see how it will hurt. Consider the facts... 1) Morneau will net nothing in terms of a decent propsect. 2) Morneau's upside is very high, and he's giving enough reason now to show that you might see something closer to the pre-concussion Morneau next season, plus, even if he isn't that contract won't be a factor for a team looking for deadline help in 2013. 3) Getting rid of Morneau and one of Span/Willingham opens up an OF spot with no short term replacement (where Parmalee could fit there now).

That said, I think they go after starting pitching. They have no choice really as they need 2 or 3 decent starters, and they'll need them for the 2014/15 teams as well. My fear is that they go after guys slightly better than Marquis. I'd like them to go after Anibel Sanchez, and take some risks with guys like Bedard... As well, hopefully they add a couple of guys to Rochester like Jonathan Sanchez.

SpiritofVodkaDave
07-25-2012, 09:03 AM
Yeah a bunch of prospect to sell hope from...it's totally not like the mid to late 90's.

Rosario...really?
The lineup is already quite a bit better than the mid to late 90's teams, adding in guys like Arcia, Hicks, Benson etc only helps booster your club and allows you trade trade away some aging assets to keep the farm restocked.

Yeah I was a bit aggresive on Rosario, but I wouldn't be shocked to see him move quickly next year from A+ to AA by the break. Maybe we could see him next Sept, but he is still super young. Even with Gibson, Hicks, Arcia and Benson all potentially being up sometime in 2013 it is something to be excited about, that is four of our top 6 or 7 prospects.

SpiritofVodkaDave
07-25-2012, 09:05 AM
Whether anyone likes it or not, this team is going to try to compete in 2013. I'm not sure if hanging on to Morneau is going to help in that regard, though I'm hard pressed to see how it will hurt. Consider the facts... 1) Morneau will net nothing in terms of a decent propsect. 2) Morneau's upside is very high, and he's giving enough reason now to show that you might see something closer to the pre-concussion Morneau next season, plus, even if he isn't that contract won't be a factor for a team looking for deadline help in 2013. 3) Getting rid of Morneau and one of Span/Willingham opens up an OF spot with no short term replacement (where Parmalee could fit there now).

That said, I think they go after starting pitching. They have no choice really as they need 2 or 3 decent starters, and they'll need them for the 2014/15 teams as well. My fear is that they go after guys slightly better than Marquis. I'd like them to go after Anibel Sanchez, and take some risks with guys like Bedard... As well, hopefully they add a couple of guys to Rochester like Jonathan Sanchez.

I agree with all of this, I however don't think Anibel Sanchez will even get the chance to see free agency. Seems like the talk around the Tigers is if he preforms well they plan on locking him up, which would make sense because they did give up a pretty significant package to get him.

Brock Beauchamp
07-25-2012, 09:11 AM
Yeah a bunch of prospect to sell hope from...it's totally not like the mid to late 90's.

Rosario...really?

Is this like the late 90s? Possibly.

Is this like the mid 90s? Absolutely not.

Right now, the Twins have a bonafide superstar in his prime, several positions are locked up with players in their prime, arbitration years, or just on the other side of their primes. Does that make them a good team? No, but it makes them a hell of a lot more promising than the mid 90s teams that were bursting at the seams with aging veterans well past their best years.

DPJ
07-25-2012, 09:16 AM
Is this like the late 90s? Possibly.

Is this like the mid 90s? Absolutely not.

Right now, the Twins have a bonafide superstar in his prime, several positions are locked up with players in their prime, arbitration years, or just on the other side of their primes. Does that make them a good team? No, but it makes them a hell of a lot more promising than the mid 90s teams that were bursting at the seams with aging veterans well past their best years.


Maybe a bit agressive with the mid-90's, but IMO this is just as had as the late 90's teams. Yes they have a star in Mauer and a couple nice players like Willingham and others. But outside of having some money to spend and a shiny new stadium, I don't see much of difference between those teams in now.

diehardtwinsfan
07-25-2012, 09:34 AM
Presently: (intentionally omitting Span and Liriano who I expect to be traded)

Star: Mauer
Solid (average or better) pieces: Willingham, Doumit, Burton, Perkins
Potentially solid or better pieces: Dozier, Parmalee, Plouffe (and I'd argue there's a potential star here if that bat is for real), Revere (lots more downside on this one I think), Diamond, Burnet

Near future (all of whom should be average or better in their positions): Arcia, Hicks, Benson, Gibson, Hendricks

This team looks pretty solid on offense next year, especially since I don't think it's a terrible thing to count on Dozier, Parmalee, or Plouffe to perform average or better and becoming solid pieces for the long term, and 2014 looks pretty bright with the talent coming in. The problem is pitching, pitching, and pitching. If they spent that 25M wisely on pitching, this team should finish above .500. It will be competitve in that sense, though I'm not sure it wins a division.

CDog
07-25-2012, 10:15 AM
Maybe a bit agressive with the mid-90's, but IMO this is just as had as the late 90's teams. Yes they have a star in Mauer and a couple nice players like Willingham and others. But outside of having some money to spend and a shiny new stadium, I don't see much of difference between those teams in now.

So they're the same with the exception of a few better players and more money to spend? Isn't that a longer way of saying they're not the same?

DPJ
07-25-2012, 10:17 AM
So they're the same with the exception of a few better players and more money to spend? Isn't that a longer way of saying they're not the same?

They're in the same position of being a horrible team with no help in sight.

SpiritofVodkaDave
07-25-2012, 10:21 AM
They're in the same position of being a horrible team with no help in sight.

:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

Damnit pig it caps me at 4 smiles per post!

DPJ
07-25-2012, 10:26 AM
:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

Damnit pig it caps me at 4 smiles per post!

Dave you can get hard over Hicks and all the minor league kids all you want, but there's no help in sight for atleast a good 2-3 years. The chances that these kids come up and make a positive contribution right out the gate are slim to none. The pitching is still a mess, you're gonna have to overpay for the Edwin Jackson or Anibel Sanchez of the world (who are an improvement, but not that good) NTM not all these kids are gonna make it as everyday MLB players. I'm just looking at this realisitically, I told you this **** was coming even when they were winning 90+ games, the bad signings, bad drafts and bad trades have finally caught up to this team and this is what were stuck with.

I know at this point all we can grasp on is the future in the minors...but it ain't that bright.

Siehbiscuit
07-25-2012, 11:09 AM
Morneau is gone in the off-season. Butera is loved by the organization and Ryan Doumit was just locked up for the next couple of years. Mauer and Doumit equal 1 catcher, 3/4 DH and 1/4 1B. Parmalee will be at 1B 3/4 of the time next year as he is out of options after this year, kinda like Plouffe is this year. Morneau will be traded, but the Twins would get more in return (either in straight salary dump or in prospects, not both) by waiting and hoping Morneau can put together a solid last few weeks.

@DPJ this team is not THAT far away. The offense may need some minor tweaks in 2013, but that has been the least of the problems. Even when Crain, Guerrier and Rauch leave and everyone is clamoring for bullpen arms, the Twins bullpen somehow gets pieced together and is respectable. The Twins minor league system is seriously lacking in quality starting pitching. Gibson and Wimmers injuries have greatly hindered the forecast for projected rotations of this year and next. The contract of Blackburn hamstrings the Twins next year as well and the injury of Scott Baker kills most of his availability of him next year if he were to be brought back. The Twins have to trade for or sign FA pitching this off-season. If Span doesn't go at the deadline, the Twins will deal him in the off-season for a solid starting pitcher. There are too many OF prospects on the verge to not do this. The immediate future isn't "bright" as in surface of the sun, but the Twins aren't a lost cause. Our pitching has had some really bad luck with injuries in both the minors and majors, but with Morneau coming off the books and Liriano, Pavano and likely Baker that is A LOT of money to put back into pitching. The Twins will be fine. So in summary, move Span and Morneau, because there are capable replacements in place. Get starting pitching for them because there is very little within the organization ready to contribute next year (Gibson at best by June).

DPJ
07-25-2012, 11:30 AM
The Twins will be fine

Back to back 90+ loss seasons and everything is coming up roses!!

Either people don't wanna accept the fact, but this franchise is in very very bad place right now.

Riverbrian
07-25-2012, 11:34 AM
Morneau is gone in the off-season. Butera is loved by the organization and Ryan Doumit was just locked up for the next couple of years. Mauer and Doumit equal 1 catcher, 3/4 DH and 1/4 1B. Parmalee will be at 1B 3/4 of the time next year as he is out of options after this year, kinda like Plouffe is this year. Morneau will be traded, but the Twins would get more in return (either in straight salary dump or in prospects, not both) by waiting and hoping Morneau can put together a solid last few weeks.



Parmalee is out of options? I learned something new. That kinda changes the dynamics.

I assumed that Morneau would be back with us next year but if Parmalee is out of options that kinda crowd things at 1B.

Is Parmalee considered to be an important part of the Twins Future or is he projected to be a backup. Whatever the answer to that question will be important in determining what needs to be done with Morneau. If Parmalee is part of our future... He can't go through another year like this year with the time spent on the MLB bench.

Parmalee will have to move in front of Justin next year on the depth chart. Wouldn't he?

SpiritofVodkaDave
07-25-2012, 12:04 PM
Parmalee is out of options? I learned something new. That kinda changes the dynamics.

I assumed that Morneau would be back with us next year but if Parmalee is out of options that kinda crowd things at 1B.

Is Parmalee considered to be an important part of the Twins Future or is he projected to be a backup. Whatever the answer to that question will be important in determining what needs to be done with Morneau. If Parmalee is part of our future... He can't go through another year like this year with the time spent on the MLB bench.

Parmalee will have to move in front of Justin next year on the depth chart. Wouldn't he?
Parmalee can always play in the OF....... the Twins shouldn't be running Morneau out of town for a guy who hasn't really proven himself in the majors or minors.

J-Dog Dungan
07-25-2012, 12:13 PM
@Siehbuscuit Morneau still has a year left on his deal, so the Twins have some time to trade him and get him to build his trade value up.

DPJ
07-25-2012, 12:13 PM
Parmalee can always play in the OF....... the Twins shouldn't be running Morneau out of town for a guy who hasn't really proven himself in the majors or minors.

But maybe Parm has a chance be be part of the future while Morneau is a 14 million dollar paperweight that can't go away quick enough.

USAFChief
07-25-2012, 12:32 PM
I'm confused. The same people (person?) arguing the Twins should be dumping every veteran to "make a run in 2014" seem to be simultaneously arguing the Twins minor league system is crap and the team "is in a bad place" right now.

Selling low on Morneau now makes no sense. Pretending to know he'll never return to being a legitimate middle of the order hitter is ridiculously shortsighted. If he doesn't ever get better than right now, he can still be dealt next summer. If he even comes close to returning to what he was, your options are a lot Better than they are now.

Is the goal to save the Pohlads as much money as possible? Or is it to return to being a 90 win team as soon as possible?

TheLeviathan
07-25-2012, 12:35 PM
If Morneau's deal had 5 more years on it, I could sympathize with dumping him. With his current status I just don't see that as necessary - either get good value or hang on to him. Parm is ready, but he'll have a chance in the OF/DH role next year anyway.

Oxtung
07-25-2012, 03:45 PM
I see little reason to trade Morneau for the sake of a salary dump. He will be traded at the next deadline. Until then he is only blocking Parmelee and if an OF is traded there is a spot that opens up. Then Parmelee can move to 1st and you have a spot open to call up Benson/Hicks. Holding Morneau allows him to at least partially regain his value.

Riverbrian
07-25-2012, 05:20 PM
Parmalee can always play in the OF....... the Twins shouldn't be running Morneau out of town for a guy who hasn't really proven himself in the majors or minors.

I guess it depends on the Twins Projection of the Career and Value of Parmalee going forward.

It sounds like you are in the camp of Parmalee as a backup like Plouffe was to begin this year. I haven't seen enough of Chris to decide what camp i'm in. I just always felt that it was Justin's job until his contract was up or until he was traded.

The Parmalee out of options wrinkle got me thinking differently. If the Twins think they can contend in 2013. I can't imagine a scenerio where Parmalee starts over Morneau. Even if they don't think they can contend... You don't screw up any trade value by benching Morneau.

But... if you are building for the future. Is Parmalee the long range guy at 1b? Interesting!!!

If Parmalee is thought of as a bench guy in 2013 like Plouffe. The Twins might as well move Sano over to 1B during the off season.

Personally, I know that I don't want Parmalee in the OF. I think one slow corner is fine. Both Corners on the slower side is a major concern in my book and Willingham will be patroling in the OF. Our pitching staff will need all the help they can get out there.

Oxtung
07-25-2012, 05:44 PM
I guess it depends on the Twins Projection of the Career and Value of Parmalee going forward.

It sounds like you are in the camp of Parmalee as a backup like Plouffe was to begin this year. I haven't seen enough of Chris to decide what camp i'm in. I just always felt that it was Justin's job until his contract was up or until he was traded.

The Parmalee out of options wrinkle got me thinking differently. If the Twins think they can contend in 2013. I can't imagine a scenerio where Parmalee starts over Morneau. Even if they don't think they can contend... You don't screw up any trade value by benching Morneau.

But... if you are building for the future. Is Parmalee the long range guy at 1b? Interesting!!!

If Parmalee is thought of as a bench guy in 2013 like Plouffe. The Twins might as well move Sano over to 1B during the off season.

Personally, I know that I don't want Parmalee in the OF. I think one slow corner is fine. Both Corners on the slower side is a major concern in my book and Willingham will be patroling in the OF. Our pitching staff will need all the help they can get out there.

Nobody is saying Parmelee long term in the RF. He would be out there for 1/2 a season, until a decision is made on Morneau, getting everyday at bats to see if he is a replacement for Morneau at 1st. After next trade deadline either Morneau is gone or he has turned things around enough that the Twins have decided to resign him to a contract. If Morneau is traded now you move Parmelee back to 1st. If Morneau is re-signed then you know Parmelee isn't in your future plans anyways. Either way that opens up RF for Benson or Hicks whoever is showing they're ready. Of course if neither of them are ready then there isn't a rush to move Parmelee. All of this of course is dependent on Span/Revere being traded before next season.

As for Sano, his future position shouldn't be tied to anything other than what he can play. You want him to play the hardest position he is comfortable at because that increases his value both to the team and for future trade potential. So where Sano ends up should in no way be tied to any decision on Morneau or Parmelee.

nicksaviking
07-25-2012, 06:13 PM
Parmelee was added to the 40-man November of 2010, meaning this is only his second season on the roster. Unless there is another obscure rule that applies to Parmelee (and there certainly could be), he has a third option year in 2013. Many people think every time a player gets promoted/demoted in the same season means they lose an option; I'm not sure if that was the cause of the initial confusion.

CDog
07-25-2012, 10:39 PM
Parmelee was added to the 40-man November of 2010, meaning this is only his second season on the roster. Unless there is another obscure rule that applies to Parmelee (and there certainly could be), he has a third option year in 2013. Many people think every time a player gets promoted/demoted in the same season means they lose an option; I'm not sure if that was the cause of the initial confusion.

As I was first reading that, I thought you meant there could be a rule that applies only and specifically to Parmalee. That amused me for some reason. I needed something Twins related to amuse me today. So yay!

howeda7
07-25-2012, 11:05 PM
I'd hate to be the guy who you have something against.

The injuries are a concern no doubt but it is quite possible that he can turn around and it can happen real quick.

If he made $7 million instead of $14, I'd be fine keeping him. Getting rid of his salary is the difference between making a run at a top-end starter like Grienke and bringing in Pavano Part II.

twinsnorth49
07-25-2012, 11:12 PM
If he made $7 million instead of $14, I'd be fine keeping him. Getting rid of his salary is the difference between making a run at a top-end starter like Grienke and bringing in Pavano Part II.


Morneau's salary isn't going to prevent them from making a run at a top end starter, if that's what they want to do.

howeda7
07-25-2012, 11:19 PM
Morneau's salary isn't going to prevent them from making a run at a top end starter, if that's what they want to do.

They can probably afford one either way. But without trading Morneau, signing a Grienke will eat almost the entire amount available. They need at least one other mid-level starter and perhaps an OF'er if Span is moved, etc.

Oxtung
07-25-2012, 11:24 PM
If he made $7 million instead of $14, I'd be fine keeping him. Getting rid of his salary is the difference between making a run at a top-end starter like Grienke and bringing in Pavano Part II.

Good God let's all hope they don't make a run at a top end starter. That would not only eat up whatever budget the Twins have available this year but for the next 5-6 years too. Anybody seriously contemplating signing a Greinke or Lincecum (assuming he can return to form and is available next year) should think about this; Mauer + Linceke would be ~50% of the Twins payroll.

Rosterman
07-25-2012, 11:29 PM
Yesterday Corey in the booth said there were 15 scouts in the stands...watching whom. I would not take Looney...Parmaleee should be able to replicate that offense line. Right now, the Twins would be better served with a salary dump and building for 2014...assuming you play to lose this year and spend another $20 million on draftees, supplementing your minor leagues with some prospects obtained this year. And IF the Twins can play halfway servicable ball and keep attendance above 30,000 (can they?)...keep whatever savings you have in salary to gamble PLEASE down the line. Sadly, in baseball, when teams underspend one year, they don't overspend in another year.

striker_86
07-25-2012, 11:36 PM
yeah, Morneau has been playing better lately, but I don't think he will ever hit .300 again. With that said, I only support trading him if that money goes into pitching in the offseason

John Bonnes
07-26-2012, 03:21 PM
I wrote earlier this year that I was in no hurry to see Morneau traded, just because I wanted to be there for the big finish. And I think he's exceeded expectations and I think he'll be even better next year.

But if another team was willing to grab him and pay all of his salary, I'd trade him for lint. I want that $14M and I'll risk Parmelee's production at 1B. It's a no-brainer in my mind.

mike wants wins
07-26-2012, 03:24 PM
Um, they won't be spending $20MM no draftees, not even close. They'll spend a lot less next year than this year, as they won't have as many picks, not even close.

nicksaviking
07-26-2012, 03:39 PM
Yeah, only possible comp pick next year is if they offer Liriano the qualifying offer, and all reports say Liriano is 100% going to be traded. They weren't even in the lottory for the small market/low revenue comp round. Of course the Tigers were, yet somehow they managed to sign Prince Fielder this off-season.

Twins will have another top five pick but then not again until round 2.

Oxtung
07-26-2012, 04:25 PM
I wrote earlier this year that I was in no hurry to see Morneau traded, just because I wanted to be there for the big finish. And I think he's exceeded expectations and I think he'll be even better next year.

But if another team was willing to grab him and pay all of his salary, I'd trade him for lint. I want that $14M and I'll risk Parmelee's production at 1B. It's a no-brainer in my mind.

John what would you do with the money? The Twins are already going to have ~$20-30 million to spend depending on who gets traded. I think we're all in agreement that most of that goes to pitching with maybe a little something to a MINF. Even at $20 million that would be enough to go get a second tier starter for ~$14M/yr and a $6M veteran for a few years. So what does that extra $14M actually get you?