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Seth Stohs
07-22-2012, 09:29 AM
You can view the page at http://www.twinsdaily.com/content.php?820-The-Stress-of-the-Trade-Deadline

COtwin
07-22-2012, 09:42 AM
Thanks for helping put things into perspective. I think we have seen so many of "our" player walk and speak of it being a business. It's easy to forget that some actually do feel loyalty. Can't imagine what that would feel like if my employer traded me Trenton, NJ.

Thrylos
07-22-2012, 09:48 AM
Thanks for helping put things into perspective. I think we have seen so many of "our" player walk and speak of it being a business. It's easy to forget that some actually do feel loyalty. Can't imagine what that would feel like if my employer traded me Trenton, NJ.

Understood, but 99% of the non-players would not mind if their employer traded them to a team in Antarctica, if they were making a few million a year or even half a million minimum wage to play a kid's sport. Trenton is not too bad actually if you are in the right place during day time. And the ball park is pretty nice.

COtwin
07-22-2012, 09:56 AM
Oh don't get me wrong. Getting Paid for Play makes me feel about as sorry as Michael Corrleone. It's just nice to think that some of them might share some of my sentiments. Probably a pipe dream.

Shane Wahl
07-22-2012, 10:49 AM
The stress of reading about trade speculation here is enough to make me crazy.

Rosterman
07-22-2012, 11:46 AM
Sometimes, trade speculation makes one feel unwanted, but you are actually wanted by someone else. And all this trade talk is just trade talk. I love fan talk about trades, but it is so often one-sided...how can we get the greatest stuff in the world for our unwanted used and boring junk.

You may ride busses, make little money and such playing ball in the minors...but msot of the players have received some sort of bonus (many $100,000+) and in the real world...how much did you make as a 19-year-old, or 20, or 22, or 24...or at 26 when you were still living at home in the basement cause your supposed high-tech job went south. You get to eat, drink and play ball every day, all day. If you don't spend money, you don't need to make a lot.

Frankie is wise not to say anything bad about the Twins. He will still need offers in his free agent search, wherever he is...and you don't want to burn bridges.

And Morneau...it is a business. Can the Twins be better served without his 2013 salary? He could still have the option of coming back (remember Rick Aguilera).

Loyalty is such a BIG word in the sport. We all saw how well it worked with Nathan (coming off 1 1/2 years of Twins salary for Tommy John recovery) and Michael Cuddyer (who played his entire career with the Twins organization). It is still a business. I feel you are worth X$$$ and you fel y$$$$$.

The tough part about this business is health and such...as we saw the Twins horizon for trading players for anything took a hit with Capps and Pavano going down...now the Twins can best hope to shed just some of their salary, if need be.

And Trenton isn't bad...within driving distance of so many major league ballparks, plus lots of minor league clubs.

And what is with the Astros...shedding four players and getting 10 or something back in return. We have to look at this Astro July in 2-3 years to see if it panned out.

jimbo92107
07-22-2012, 12:06 PM
I bought a Cuddyer jersey a couple years ago because I admired the guy and thought he'd be a Twin his whole career. What am I gonna do with my Lirano jersey in a couple weeks?

From now on I'm only buying jerseys of retired players.

greengoblinrulz
07-22-2012, 12:47 PM
A 'good' GM doesnt treat his players as humans with feelings, but as assets to the business.
That's how you end up thinking your good friends like Torri Hunter will want to stay here & he instead chases the money & you end up with nothing.
Gardy treats his players as buddies also instead of guys working for him/company....personally believe that thought process is why he's 5-22 in playoffs. He isnt hard enough on players prefers to be buddies.
Teams talk of doin whats right for the players (pitch count, etc) when they shouldnt care about the player & do whats right for the team...ex MIL w/CC, pitching him 9IP every start to 150 pitches cause they knew they wouldnt resign him.

Brock Beauchamp
07-22-2012, 12:59 PM
A 'good' GM doesnt treat his players as humans with feelings, but as assets to the business.
That's how you end up thinking your good friends like Torri Hunter will want to stay here & he instead chases the money & you end up with nothing.
Gardy treats his players as buddies also instead of guys working for him/company....personally believe that thought process is why he's 5-22 in playoffs. He isnt hard enough on players prefers to be buddies.
Teams talk of doin whats right for the players (pitch count, etc) when they shouldnt care about the player & do whats right for the team...ex MIL w/CC, pitching him 9IP every start to 150 pitches cause they knew they wouldnt resign him.

Right. Because if Gardenhire had only willed his players to play better, the Twins would have multiple championships.

Let's just admit that the manager has very little sway on what happens on-field and get on with our days.

PS. Good GMs treat their players like human beings, just like any good boss treats his/her employees like human beings. They just don't let their entire decision be swayed by emotion.

IdahoPilgrim
07-22-2012, 01:04 PM
A 'good' GM doesnt treat his players as humans with feelings, but as assets to the business.
That's how you end up thinking your good friends like Torri Hunter will want to stay here & he instead chases the money & you end up with nothing.
Gardy treats his players as buddies also instead of guys working for him/company....personally believe that thought process is why he's 5-22 in playoffs. He isnt hard enough on players prefers to be buddies.
Teams talk of doin whats right for the players (pitch count, etc) when they shouldnt care about the player & do whats right for the team...ex MIL w/CC, pitching him 9IP every start to 150 pitches cause they knew they wouldnt resign him.

I can't speak to baseball in particular, but in general I have found the opposite to be true (and I have been in a position of leading an organization with employees several times). You ALWAYS treat your employees as humans with feelings. You don't try to be their friends, but you make sure that they know that you see them as more than just assets. That's the way you actually get the most production out of them. Yes, ultimately decisions have to be made as to what best enables the organization as a whole to be successful in whatever business it is in, and employees need to understand that (and most of them do), but employee morale is often a big component of overall success, and how you treat people is a big component of morale.

Thrylos
07-22-2012, 01:14 PM
I can't speak to baseball in particular, but in general I have found the opposite to be true (and I have been in a position of leading an organization with employees several times). You ALWAYS treat your employees as humans with feelings. You don't try to be their friends, but you make sure that they know that you see them as more than just assets. That's the way you actually get the most production out of them. Yes, ultimately decisions have to be made as to what best enables the organization as a whole to be successful in whatever business it is in, and employees need to understand that (and most of them do), but employee morale is often a big component of overall success, and how you treat people is a big component of morale.

Understood and at the field manager level, that should be it. And promotions to the majors and to the higher levels in the minors should be merit based (Like in business. These guys make more $ when at the majors and at higher MiLB levels.) Alas, that is not the case with the Twins. Too many ridiculous promotions and too many inequalities on the way the manager treats players.

That said, at the GM and FO level, because unlike in a business where you cannot trade your staff to your competitors and get some of their people in return to improve your business, you can trade players to other clubs. That is why should be seen as assets as well. At that level.

Seth Stohs
07-22-2012, 01:21 PM
A 'good' GM doesnt treat his players as humans with feelings, but as assets to the business.
That's how you end up thinking your good friends like Torri Hunter will want to stay here & he instead chases the money & you end up with nothing.
Gardy treats his players as buddies also instead of guys working for him/company....personally believe that thought process is why he's 5-22 in playoffs. He isnt hard enough on players prefers to be buddies.
Teams talk of doin whats right for the players (pitch count, etc) when they shouldnt care about the player & do whats right for the team...ex MIL w/CC, pitching him 9IP every start to 150 pitches cause they knew they wouldnt resign him.

I don't thin that I could possibly disagree with a forum entry more than I disagree with this one.

Rosterman
07-22-2012, 02:07 PM
Rosters decisions is another whole ball of wax. Decisions are made on need, player development, service time, and the supposed future of any and all players to the organization. Like this year, why give service time to non-40 man roster guys earlier than necessary. Right now, it would only contribute to a slight rise (if any) in the standings. Yes, rise up out of merit, but if there is nothing but a bench spot and you would be betetr served playing everyday or pitching every fifth day, why come up. You always have role players in this and most any other sport.

greengoblinrulz
07-22-2012, 02:08 PM
I am talkin GM rather than field manager (couldnt stop not knockin Gardy who's buggin me again) when I talk of this & I do stand by it. I take the Billy Beane approach (Moneyball book rather than movie) in they are assets/employees first....can be friendly with them also, but not friends to the point of affecting your judgement.
Does NOT mean you dont treat them well as people/players. May have gotten my point across wrong. Happy employees are harder working employees mostly. Think you may be getting that idea from me (was bein a tad sarcastic)....I am defiantely not against treating players well....very well in fact. Treat them better than other teams do.
My comments are from a front office view....who's job it is to run the company. You cannot refuse to make a move due to personel feelings for a player/coach etc. However, you HAVE to look at the treatment of a player & what the repercussions will be (dont think you can trade Josh as it makes players weary of signing a longer deal/fear of bein dealt for ex). Any player that cannot look at player moves from a front office (good or Bill Smith type bad ones) as bein business & not personal doesnt get the business.

greengoblinrulz
07-22-2012, 02:15 PM
I don't thin that I could possibly disagree with a forum entry more than I disagree with this one.
I truly LOVE the way the Brewers handled CC that Aug/Sept. It was the teams job to win & they tried to win/go for the series. They did nothing intentional to injure CC or do something they have to appologize for, but why should they keep him healthy for the team he signed with the next yr. There is no proof either way that more/less pitches per game hurt him. It didnt. They actually tried to win (something I wish this team would try more) every game.

Seth Stohs
07-22-2012, 02:47 PM
I have no doubt in my mind that the Twins try to win every game they play.

greengoblinrulz
07-22-2012, 03:08 PM
obviously they TRY to win every gm, but the decision to NOT use Jaret Burton on 3 consucutive days (when leading in late innings) is an example of how they dont use everything they have to win every day....hope to win, but resting Jaret is more important than winning....that particular day.
Twins often consider resting someone 'more important IMO' to winning (obviously they try to win tho). They havent done it last 2 yrs due to injuries, but the day game B squad out there in the series finale is another example. Trevor not playing today (when theyve said he COULD) to rest an injury 1 more day (tho this is farther down my list). That's what Im talkin bout.

USAFChief
07-22-2012, 03:10 PM
Stress is having a couple young kids at home and being told your job won't be there Monday. Stress is learning your kid needs chemo and you don't have health insurance.

Stress isn't the possibility that you'll have to move from one highly paid, pampered job to another, all expenses paid.

Yes, ball players are human, but c'mon. Let's not pretend this is terribly "stressful."

Brock Beauchamp
07-22-2012, 03:15 PM
Stress is having a couple young kids at home and being told your job won't be there Monday. Stress is learning your kid needs chemo and you don't have health insurance.

Stress isn't the possibility that you'll have to move from one highly paid, pampered job to another, all expenses paid.

Yes, ball players are human, but c'mon. Let's not pretend this is terribly "stressful."

Stress is based on perspective, not a rational examination of "this is how awful my life could be."

So yes, being traded could be a very stressful situation for players.

Seth Stohs
07-22-2012, 03:52 PM
Stress is based on perspective, not a rational examination of "this is how awful my life could be."

So yes, being traded could be a very stressful situation for players.

Ummmm... this... life finds ways to put all things into proper perspective.

mike wants wins
07-22-2012, 04:10 PM
Stress is internal. We all control how we react to what life throws at us. I would hope that a multi-millionaire would find the proper perspective in life to realize that they have it easy compared to 99.99+% of the world, and that they should not get stressed about this. That said, it isn't that easy, and we have been conditioned by our society to worry about a lot of stuff that isn't really worth worrying about, so I would imagine that the trade deadline is stressful to these guys.

edavis0308
07-22-2012, 04:29 PM
I have no doubt in my mind that the Twins try to win every game they play.

Except for the month of April, and getaway day games.

Seth Stohs
07-22-2012, 04:38 PM
Except for the month of April, and getaway day games.

I'm pretty much sure that, regardless of the lineup, the team is trying to win every game. Days off are part of the 162 game season. Has to be done. And, there have not been 'getaway day' lineups this year.

edavis0308
07-22-2012, 05:29 PM
I'm pretty much sure that, regardless of the lineup, the team is trying to win every game. Days off are part of the 162 game season. Has to be done. And, there have not been 'getaway day' lineups this year.

Actually, I agree with you that they have done way better this year with afternoon game lineups. The April games and afternoon lineups just always seems to be a running joke. It seemed fitting.

Paul
07-22-2012, 06:38 PM
Stress is having a couple young kids at home and being told your job won't be there Monday. Stress is learning your kid needs chemo and you don't have health insurance.

Stress isn't the possibility that you'll have to move from one highly paid, pampered job to another, all expenses paid.

Yes, ball players are human, but c'mon. Let's not pretend this is terribly "stressful."

I applaud your good sense, Chief

greengoblinrulz
07-22-2012, 07:27 PM
Team has been better with getaway lineups for sure.....more due to 3 person bench's than due to change of philosiphy from Gardy.
As for Span & his stress, I lost repsect for him when earlier this year Gardy spoke of how 'devastated' Denard would be if he had to move to RF for Revere. The guy is mentally soft (not due to consussions either)

drjim
07-22-2012, 07:28 PM
obviously they TRY to win every gm, but the decision to NOT use Jaret Burton on 3 consucutive days (when leading in late innings) is an example of how they dont use everything they have to win every day....hope to win, but resting Jaret is more important than winning....that particular day.
Twins often consider resting someone 'more important IMO' to winning (obviously they try to win tho). They havent done it last 2 yrs due to injuries, but the day game B squad out there in the series finale is another example. Trevor not playing today (when theyve said he COULD) to rest an injury 1 more day (tho this is farther down my list). That's what Im talkin bout.

There is a balance in this situation. You need to rest players so they will be good and able to perform over the long haul of a season and the years they are part of the team. If they pitch Burton, a guy who has been injured most of the past couple of seasons, too much and too frequently he will break down again. Slightly increasing the odds of one victory is not worth the risk of the player breaking down for the second half of the year, or being able to contribute next year. These are the tradeoffs managers need to make every year.

I often thought that this was a hidden strength of Gardy in the past decade. They would rest players in a manner that seemed excessive, but they were always a team that finished the regular season strong (and then get smoked in the playoffs). Obviously the last two seasons have rendered this moot.

drjim
07-22-2012, 07:33 PM
Stress is having a couple young kids at home and being told your job won't be there Monday. Stress is learning your kid needs chemo and you don't have health insurance.

Stress isn't the possibility that you'll have to move from one highly paid, pampered job to another, all expenses paid.

Yes, ball players are human, but c'mon. Let's not pretend this is terribly "stressful."

I don't know. If I worked for a company for ten years and then knew I had to up and move at a time not of my choosing to work the same job for a different company, even if I was being paid well, that would still be a pretty stressful time in my life.

Sure it's nowhere near the situations you mentioned, but I used to get stressed when I had a 10 page paper due in less than 2 days. Think how insignificant that is in the grand scheme of things.

Riverbrian
07-22-2012, 07:33 PM
Joe Mauer is perhaps the only player on this squad that can reasonably assume they are Twins for life.

For everyone else...Trades... FA signings... Cuts... Are part of the game. Span may want to stay and thats great but I'm sure that Span knows that he could end up somewhere else. If trade talk effects him... We should move him for that reason. It wouldn't be good to have someone that unsteady on the roster.

I don't believe for a second that Span can't handle trade talk.

mnfireman
07-22-2012, 08:06 PM
This team is 25-23 since bottoming out at 15-32 on May 27. The teams needs are glaring (starting pitching and middle infield), but I don't think they should blow the team up because, while it MIGHT strengthen an area of weakness, it WILL weaken another area. Span, Willingham, Doumit and Perkins are good players on good contracts, Nishioka and Blackburn are bad players on bad contracts. Morneau is still serviceable and showing signs of improvement, though he might struggle when he returns. Mauer's contract is what it is and he is a future HOF'er at his current rate of production. The rest of the roster is interchangeable in that they aren't going to help another team, but aren't really hurting the Twins and there are more just like them at AA and AAA. A slow start by just about everyone hurt this team more than anything, plus the various injuries. Unless they are overwhelmed in a trade offer (which it sounds like Ryan is holding out for), keep 'em together, add some kids and free agents next year, keep drafting well and maybe, just maybe Your Minnesota Twins will catch lightening in a bottle sooner rather than later.

diehardtwinsfan
07-22-2012, 08:31 PM
very rarely do teams get "blown up" at the deadline... it just doesn't happen... Dealing both Span and Liriano will take quite a bit of front office resources to accomplish, so I doubt the team will be completely blown up.

greengoblinrulz
07-22-2012, 08:37 PM
There is a balance in this situation. You need to rest players so they will be good and able to perform over the long haul of a season and the years they are part of the team. If they pitch Burton, a guy who has been injured most of the past couple of seasons, too much and too frequently he will break down again. Slightly increasing the odds of one victory is not worth the risk of the player breaking down for the second half of the year, or being able to contribute next year. These are the tradeoffs managers need to make every year.

I often thought that this was a hidden strength of Gardy in the past decade. They would rest players in a manner that seemed excessive, but they were always a team that finished the regular season strong (and then get smoked in the playoffs). Obviously the last two seasons have rendered this moot.
How many times have we won back to back games rendering Burton unusable??? Im not saying he should be in 3 straight games, but NEVER?? Its cost em wins...which I thought were the goal. Burton & Perk have been unable to pitch due to overuse in a year when we are one of the worst teams in baseball. He's using these guys when behind & then rendering them out in a possible win. But again, when Gardy does it & wins...he's awesome, when he does & loses, its the players. He cant do any wrong with some.

mnfireman
07-22-2012, 09:04 PM
Trading Span and Liriano for starting pitching does what? Right now Liriano is pitching as good as any starting pitcher being made available so that would be a wash and Span is currently better better than Mastroianni, Tosoni, Benson, Hicks, Thomas, Parmalee, etc... so that would be a step backwards. Same with Willingham, none of the righthanded mashers, Sano, ????, ????, etc... are major league ready. Starting pitching is the teams biggest concern right now, so keep running bodies out there and hope for 6 innings so the BP can settle into their roles. All hands on deck!

greengoblinrulz
07-22-2012, 09:16 PM
Trading Span and Liriano for starting pitching does what? Right now Liriano is pitching as good as any starting pitcher being made available so that would be a wash and Span is currently better better than Mastroianni, Tosoni, Benson, Hicks, Thomas, Parmalee, etc... so that would be a step backwards. Same with Willingham, none of the righthanded mashers, Sano, ????, ????, etc... are major league ready. Starting pitching is the teams biggest concern right now, so keep running bodies out there and hope for 6 innings so the BP can settle into their roles. All hands on deck!
So trade nobody & stay status quo/lose Liriano after the season for nothing???
I could be talked into taking the draft pick for Frankie if they prospects offerred arent high enough.
Benson, Arcia, Hicks......DONT LIST THOMAS PLEASE....are very very close. Right now, maybe not...but nxt yr, sure.
Denard is an ok player, dime a dozen type tho. Decent average, OBP, poor base stealer/baserunner...good CF but not better than Revere who's a better clone of Denard.....alwasys run into possibility of hurting Spans feelings also.
Does all depend on who's offerred tho

gil4
07-22-2012, 09:46 PM
Stress isn't the possibility that you'll have to move from one highly paid, pampered job to another, all expenses paid.



Chief, you work with people who move all the time. The shorter the notice, the more stress. More money doesn't necessarily reduce the stress, although they obviously have more resources to throw at the stressors. It's still difficult to pick up and move, whether you're an A1C with a wife and kid, a Major married to a Captain with no kids, or a ballplayer making $1M+.

The military member is going to have a few days to take care of business; the ballplayer is going to be expected to be in uniform in Toronto (or wherever) the next night.

mnfireman
07-22-2012, 09:56 PM
I do not think Span is a great CF, but he is better than the alternatives at this point. If the team wants FA's to come here in the future they can't trade Willingham after a little more than half a season. Liriano brings the best return, but right now he is better than what the team has and they aren't getting another starting pitcher in return for him. If they are willing to offer him $12M and are currently paying Pavano and Baker upwards of $8M, I think they could offer $10-14M to 1 or 2 of the upcoming free agents and bridge the gap until the current prospects or draft choices are ready.

YourHouseIsMyHouse
07-22-2012, 09:57 PM
Frankie wants to play for the Twins and I want him to play for the Twins. What is coming between us?

Nick Nelson
07-22-2012, 10:15 PM
I don't believe for a second that Span can't handle trade talk.
For what it's worth, I heard from people I trust that Span did not react well at all to his name being floated in rumors around this time last year.

SpiritofVodkaDave
07-22-2012, 10:25 PM
Sometimes things in life don't go perfectly. If one of those things is being traded to another team (who has a better chance of winning now) while they still pay you multi millions a year, yeah I just don't see how that is really just that stressful.

If you don't want to handle the "stress" that comes with being traded or speculated that you might be traded, then negotiate into your contract a no trade clause, I'm sure at the time the Twins would have been more than happy to grant Span a no trade clause if he would have accepted a couple million dollars less per season. I mean I imagine it would suck to be traded suddenly and would be an inconvenience to find a new place to live etc, but the nice thing is you would have plenty of money/help in order to get you situated quickly.

I feel a lot worse for the throw in minor league guy who gets traded and is only making 50k a year.

Riverbrian
07-22-2012, 11:09 PM
For what it's worth, I heard from people I trust that Span did not react well at all to his name being floated in rumors around this time last year.

I don't doubt that. 2nd year of a 5 year deal and then the club falls apart around him while he sits out with a concussion.

All of sudden he becomes the focus of a trade to the Nationals. He wasn't expecting a collapse of that nature when he signed that contract and his name is the one being tossed around in a trade.

Time has gone by now... He's had enough time to come to grips with the business.

When I say can't handle the trade talk... I say that he can still go out and function as a ballplayer. He might not like the trade talk but I don't believe that it lessens him as a player.

If trade talk does diminish Denard on the field... Trade him tomorrow and don't look back cuz trades can become a shadow at any time. I give him the benefit of the doubt.

My boss will throw his stapler in fits of rage. Shake it off and do his job.

diehardtwinsfan
07-23-2012, 07:47 AM
Frankie wants to play for the Twins and I want him to play for the Twins. What is coming between us?

I'd guess money...

Vervehound
07-23-2012, 08:59 AM
Understood, but 99% of the non-players would not mind if their employer traded them to a team in Antarctica, if they were making a few million a year or even half a million minimum wage to play a kid's sport. Trenton is not too bad actually if you are in the right place during day time. And the ball park is pretty nice.

most kids aren't striking out in front of 30k people and having to answer for it in the court of public opinion. not to mention that ballplayers have shown that they're in the elite 0.01% of humanity in terms of hand-eye coordination. i get that being a ballplayer could be a really fun career but it's also super hard for all but a half dozen players so the argument of it being a "kid's sport" is lazy, imo.

SpiritofVodkaDave
07-23-2012, 09:03 AM
most kids aren't striking out in front of 30k people and having to answer for it in the court of public opinion. not to mention that ballplayers have shown that they're in the elite 0.01% of humanity in terms of hand-eye coordination. i get that being a ballplayer could be a really fun career but it's also super hard for all but a half dozen players so the argument of it being a "kid's sport" is lazy, imo.
Yeah, I agree that I think there is plenty of stress just playing the game for these players, i.e. each at bat, the press etc, the idea that you may be traded should be at the bottom of that list IMHO.

diehardtwinsfan
07-23-2012, 09:10 AM
Having moved and changed jobs on a number of occasion, I think it is safe to say that it is a stressful experience. I realize that these guys aren't facing circumstances like what Jason Marquis faced earlier this season, but that doesn't take away from the stress of the situation. Add to it that these guys basically live out of a suitcase from April to October, which is hardly a cakewalk. The idea that this is simply a kids game and is unstressful is rather lazy if you ask me. These guys are people who have to deal with families, travel, and everything else just like the rest of us. Just because they make a lot of money doesn't somehow make these issues go away.

JB_Iowa
07-23-2012, 09:12 AM
Going back to some of the earlier comments about stress, I actually think that stress is feeling like you don't have control of the situation.

So, to me, Span's situation would be more stressful than Liriano's because Span is locked into a contract through 2014 -- and has no ability to make his own choices until after that season. Liriano becomes a free agent after this season so regardless of what happens, he only has to live with it for a few months.

And, some people have a greater need for control than others -- usually these are also people who don't react well to change becaue it affects their control (that is control over their own circumstances not necessarily control over others).

I have a feeling from his tweets last year that Span may be someone who needs that control -- it may be part of why he wanted to sign a long-term contract (considered by many to be team-friendly even at the time) in the first place. It gave him some certainty over a period of time.

And that is also why all the talk of trades might be more stressful to him than it might be to others in the same situation.

JB_Iowa
07-23-2012, 09:19 AM
Yeah, I agree that I think there is plenty of stress just playing the game for these players, i.e. each at bat, the press etc, the idea that you may be traded should be at the bottom of that list IMHO.

I disagree. Playing in front of crowds and handling the press is something that the players train for -- and it becomes routine. Since they know what to expect, the stress level is minimized.

Dealing with a family situation (as Marquis did) or being traded is a whole different thing. It is stressful because you have no way of knowing what will happen.

And each person's view on this question may well depend upon how much of a control freak you are personally. (Since I am one, that may well explain why I think not having a say in where you will be for the next few years would be incredibly stressful)

USAFChief
07-23-2012, 11:51 AM
Chief, you work with people who move all the time. The shorter the notice, the more stress. More money doesn't necessarily reduce the stress, although they obviously have more resources to throw at the stressors. It's still difficult to pick up and move, whether you're an A1C with a wife and kid, a Major married to a Captain with no kids, or a ballplayer making $1M+.

The military member is going to have a few days to take care of business; the ballplayer is going to be expected to be in uniform in Toronto (or wherever) the next night.

Fair points, and I understand being told today you're working in another city tomorrow can't be fun. I still think people are making way too much of this.

Is it too stressful for them when they're told theyre leaving Rochester on the next flight to Minneapolis? Perhaps all in season promotions should come with two weeks notice?

A major leaguer getting traded is going to have the team pick up the expenses, have a flunky waiting to help him find a place to live, have his personal effects packed up and shipped by others, etc etc.

Maybe I'm just a cynical old bastard, but I don't have a lot of sympathy for pampered millionaires getting "stressed" over something they signed up for.

SpiritofVodkaDave
07-23-2012, 11:59 AM
I disagree. Playing in front of crowds and handling the press is something that the players train for -- and it becomes routine. Since they know what to expect, the stress level is minimized.

Dealing with a family situation (as Marquis did) or being traded is a whole different thing. It is stressful because you have no way of knowing what will happen.

And each person's view on this question may well depend upon how much of a control freak you are personally. (Since I am one, that may well explain why I think not having a say in where you will be for the next few years would be incredibly stressful)

I'm sorry what is the purpose of bringing up what happened to Marquis? What does that have to do with a player being traded? Are you comparing the potential death of a child to being potentially having to move to another city?

Paul
07-23-2012, 12:12 PM
Shouldn't've backed off Chief. If the coaches can't handle their agony in a few sentences they should just laminate your comment and hand it to them. Their stress is pretty much the same stress I feel when I get a piece of road tar on my motorcycle.

Makes me think of the old Martin Mull song "Rich Man's Blues"..."I felt so low down I threw my drink across the lawn."

JB_Iowa
07-23-2012, 12:13 PM
No, I'm not comparing it. Someone else brought up Marquis earlier.

Of course the stress of dealing with an injured child (or spouse or parent or other loved one) is greater than the stress of moving to another city.

But changing jobs or moving to another location is a pretty high stress factor as I recall from all those cute little lists they publish from time to time on life's stressors. And, even when it is by choice, its not really routine.

My point was that most at bats for a player (even in front of 30,000 fans) are somewhat routine. Does that mean that he doesn't get stressed? Of course not. And SOME at bat situations are very stressful, I'm sure.

But overall, I think that the possibility of being traded -- and in having no say in where you go -- is probably more stressful than routine at bats for which the player has trained.

greengoblinrulz
07-23-2012, 12:17 PM
Why its not correct to compare our jobs getting transferred to baseball is players only play 6/7month seasons....they still go home for 5months & dont work....do workout but its not work.

SpiritofVodkaDave
07-23-2012, 12:27 PM
But changing jobs or moving to another location is a pretty high stress factor as I recall from all those cute little lists they publish from time to time on life's stressors. And, even when it is by choice, its not really routine.


I have moved states like 5 or 6 times in my life, only once was due to choice. I'd say the majority of people in this country have had to as well. It's really not that stressful.

These guys are professionals, if they are concerned with outside issues (such as being the rumor of trades) they should keep it inside and continue to do their jobs. Just like everyone else is expected to do in their day to day lives.

I still think the stress of playing in front of 40k fans and millions on TV is much greater then "oh we might have to move soon"

jimbo92107
07-23-2012, 03:29 PM
Pro sports is like musical chairs, the game show. Denard should realize that, along with every other player. Play hard, and then hope you get to sit with a good team for awhile, and make some money.

gil4
07-27-2012, 11:19 PM
Is it too stressful for them when they're told theyre leaving Rochester on the next flight to Minneapolis?

I'm sure the flight in the other direction is much more stressful, especially since it usually comes with a major pay cut. (I'm sure the cut from the MLB minimum to the pittance most minor leaguers make is pretty painful.)

John Bonnes
07-27-2012, 11:44 PM
I still think the stress of playing in front of 40k fans and millions on TV is much greater then "oh we might have to move soon"

That is something I think you can get used to, especially after years of being watched. In my experience, real stress sneaks up on you. Worrying that your kid needs to move from his friends ( or be raised by an absentee father). Worrying your wife is alone or that her support network is in jeapordy or that her parents are going to call her worrying about the latest rumors & whether that means the grand kids are moving away. Ths is the stuff that hits you when you aren't looking, that you can't control.

That doesnt mean they need our pity, and that's not what the story was saying. It just men's it's silly to think this stuff means NOTHING to them. It probably does, and they likely can't help but have it affect them.

glunn
07-28-2012, 12:24 AM
I enjoyed the article and agree that the "cloud" of a trade rumor could be stressful. Just because someone makes a lot of money and has flunkies to do the grunt work does not mean that he won't be stressed by some of the consequences of being traded.

I also agree with those who believe that it is good business to treat your employees with respect and with concern for their personal lives. As fans, we expect players to give 110% for the team. If the team perceives that the GM is a coldblooded *******, I think that this could hurt team morale. But if the GM genuinely cares about every player as a human being, then this could build loyalty. My sense is that Terry Ryan seems to feel this way. Here is a quote from a recent article from the Twins website where Ryan talks about losing the opportunity to trade Capps and Pavano:

But Ryan refused to look at the injuries as a lost opportunity for the Twins, as he's more worried about them coming back healthy.

"I wouldn't be worried about trade chips when it comes to a guy's health," Ryan said.

Here is the link to the full article. (http://minnesota.twins.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20120726&content_id=35605050&vkey=news_min&c_id=min)


I understand that baseball is a business and that the GM sometimes has to make a tough decision. But I think that players will play harder when they think that the GM genuinely cares about them as human beings.