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View Full Version : Article: Trade Target Team Profile: St. Louis Cardinals



Seth Stohs
07-19-2012, 09:55 AM
You can view the page at http://www.twinsdaily.com/content.php?813-Trade-Target-Team-Profile-St-Louis-Cardinals

Paul
07-19-2012, 11:52 AM
"...he got to hang out in Hawaii for 3 years playing baseball..."

The Twins should target this kid just for his luck.

He's one lucky SOB.

nicksaviking
07-19-2012, 12:51 PM
I would have liked the prospect of the Cardinals going after Liriano a lot more if Dave Duncan was still the pitching coach. Pitchers like Liriano, who had good stuff but previously were very inconsistant did very well under Duncan. If he was still the pitching coach, the Cardinals would probably not be as concerned with Liriano's inconsistancies.

ScottyBroco
07-19-2012, 06:08 PM
No way are the cardinals going to deal one of their starters with the twins. But they wouldn't mind taking franchise off the twins hands. Why ? Two words Kyle Lohse

Brock Beauchamp
07-19-2012, 06:13 PM
No way are the cardinals going to deal one of their starters with the twins. But they wouldn't mind taking franchise off the twins hands. Why ? Two words Kyle Lohse

I love it how people think Lohse has turned into Cy Young since he left the Twins. His best season (excluding this one) was an ERA+ of 112. He posted an ERA+ of 106 and 107 with the Twins. He's been an up-and-down pitcher his entire career, only his "ups" aren't terribly high before the career year he's posting this season.

He had half a decade with Dave Duncan and had two of his worst seasons during that period. Why does everyone think the Twins failed him for some reason? His ERA+ with the Twins is pretty much the same as his ERA+ away from the Twins.

I don't get it.

CDog
07-19-2012, 11:13 PM
I love it how people think Lohse has turned into Cy Young since he left the Twins. His best season (excluding this one) was an ERA+ of 112. He posted an ERA+ of 106 and 107 with the Twins. He's been an up-and-down pitcher his entire career, only his "ups" aren't terribly high before the career year he's posting this season.

He had half a decade with Dave Duncan and had two of his worst seasons during that period. Why does everyone think the Twins failed him for some reason? His ERA+ with the Twins is pretty much the same as his ERA+ away from the Twins.

I don't get it.

The same reason they like pretending that Delmon Young became awesome when he left and that Matt Garza was much better the second he got away from the Twins and on and on and on. Some people have such a negative slant to their viewpoint that they literally invent things (or are swayed by other people's inventions because they actually want them to be true) that are negative. Which is especially puzzling when there are enough ACTUAL things to complain and be frustrated about without having to make them up. I've tried to stop (slow down?) pointing out these inventions, but in this case it felt better to be able to do it while actually agreeing with someone else doing it first. Or something.

diehardtwinsfan
07-20-2012, 06:59 AM
who said that Delmon became awesome when he left?

Seth Stohs
07-20-2012, 08:11 AM
who said that Delmon became awesome when he left?

A lot of people, pretty much any time he would hit a home run the rest of the year and in the playoffs.

grover738
07-20-2012, 08:31 AM
I do not understand how players can be in someone's system for 2+ years and still be described as "skinny". It is not hard to put on weight, muscle or fat. I'm making an assumption that Jenkins would be better with some more weight, which may not be true. But IF the Cards believe that some more mass would be beneficial, how does he not have it on him? Especially a pitcher - they have 4 days off between starts. Eat a lot and lift heavy objects, you will get bigger, especially at that age when you're full of testosterone. I understand that arm flexibility is important so you don't see to many strongman type upper body builds, but at least lower body? Get that kid into a squat rack!

Brock Beauchamp
07-20-2012, 08:43 AM
The same reason they like pretending that Delmon Young became awesome when he left and that Matt Garza was much better the second he got away from the Twins and on and on and on. Some people have such a negative slant to their viewpoint that they literally invent things (or are swayed by other people's inventions because they actually want them to be true) that are negative. Which is especially puzzling when there are enough ACTUAL things to complain and be frustrated about without having to make them up. I've tried to stop (slow down?) pointing out these inventions, but in this case it felt better to be able to do it while actually agreeing with someone else doing it first. Or something.

I find it particularly troubling with the pitchers. People make grandiose claims about how Anderson is an awful pitching coach when that simply isn't the case. I don't think he's a great pitching coach but he certainly doesn't do a bad job. There are dozens of pitchers that have left the Twins since he was their pitching coach and RA Dickey is the only guy who really thrived away from Anderson. RA Dickey is also an aberration who magically figured out the knuckleball in his mid-30s after several teams gave up on him.

Other than that, the "got away from the Twins and thrived" concept doesn't really play in reality. Let's take a look:

Lohse is the same pitcher. We established that.

Humber only pitched 20 innings in Minnesota.

Eric Milton crashed and burned after leaving the Twins.

Juan Rincon didn't fare much better.

Matt Guerrier fell on his face but we all saw that coming a mile away.

JC Romero has had good seasons away from the Twins but he also had some good seasons in Minnesota, certainly not enough of a difference to fault Anderson for screwing up.

Jesse Crain is dominating hitters just like he dominated hitters in his last season with the Twins so that's another awful example commonly used to discount Anderson's coaching abilities.

Grant Balfour was a good pitcher with the Twins and I was disappointed that they got rid of him too quickly. Again, not Anderson's fault.

LaTroy Hawkins has bounced around and turned into a journeyman, never again matching his seasons with Minnesota.

Carlos Silva became one of the worst pitchers in baseball after leaving (again, saw that one coming).

Pat Neshek was out of baseball not long after leaving the team.

Dennys Reyes had what were far and away the best years of his career with Minnesota.

Boof Bonser was awful in his last two seasons with the Twins and was even more awful away from Minnesota.

WAIT! I FOUND ONE!

Luis Ayala, a career journeyman, has had a couple of really impressive seasons post-Minnesota.

Rick Anderson, failure as a pitching coach, confirmed.

bulldogguy
07-20-2012, 03:00 PM
Agreed completely RocketPig...everyone needs a scapegoat...whether it is Anderson, Punto...you name it.

No one is perfect, including Anderson, but he seems to have a lot more success under his belt getting what appears to be marginal pitching talent and getting them to achieve at usually an average level. The last two years have been a disaster, but can people really, really take that and blame Anderson??? Seriously???

johnnydakota
07-20-2012, 03:12 PM
The same reason they like pretending that Delmon Young became awesome when he left and that Matt Garza was much better the second he got away from the Twins and on and on and on. Some people have such a negative slant to their viewpoint that they literally invent things (or are swayed by other people's inventions because they actually want them to be true) that are negative. Which is especially puzzling when there are enough ACTUAL things to complain and be frustrated about without having to make them up. I've tried to stop (slow down?) pointing out these inventions, but in this case it felt better to be able to do it while actually agreeing with someone else doing it first. Or something.

we just hate anderson ")