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View Full Version : Article: Should the Twins pick up Jonathan Sanchez?



SpiritofVodkaDave
07-17-2012, 03:45 PM
DFA'ed by the Royals today.

Anyone think the Twins should take a shot at him?
I think its worth a shot, dude was a solid pitcher up until this year, and with Liriano leaving Drew Butera will need a new latin pitcher with control issues to work his magic on.

Also I think he still has a year of arb left, so if he turned it around the Twins could keep him around for 6-7 million next year. (though he'd really have to turn it around to make him worth it)

Thoughts?

diehardtwinsfan
07-17-2012, 03:52 PM
if he'd be willing to take a job in Rochester, why not... he has potential... always got lots of Ks, could never last long though.

Jeremy Nygaard
07-17-2012, 03:55 PM
DFA'ed by the Royals today.

Anyone think the Twins should take a shot at him?
I think its worth a shot, dude was a solid pitcher up until this year, and with Liriano leaving Drew Butera will need a new latin pitcher with control issues to work his magic on.

Also I think he still has a year of arb left, so if he turned it around the Twins could keep him around for 6-7 million next year. (though he'd really have to turn it around to make him worth it)

Thoughts?

Sanchez will be a free agent at the end of year (although he could be a free agent a little sooner now).

(The 102 days of service he got with the Royals, plus the 71 days he already had over 5 years guarantees he'll be a FA at the end of the year - 172 days equals a year.)

I would pass on Sanchez if it involved trading for him or claiming him off waivers and paying the almost $3m he's owed. But if the Royals release him, then, yeah... I'm for giving him a shot at the veteran's minimum.

SpiritofVodkaDave
07-17-2012, 04:00 PM
Sanchez will be a free agent at the end of year (although he could be a free agent a little sooner now).

(The 102 days of service he got with the Royals, plus the 71 days he already had over 5 years guarantees he'll be a FA at the end of the year - 172 days equals a year.)

I would pass on Sanchez if it involved trading for him or claiming him off waivers and paying the almost $3m he's owed. But if the Royals release him, then, yeah... I'm for giving him a shot at the veteran's minimum.

He was DFA'ed so any team picking him up would get him for the minimum I believe.

I say go for it, it's not like he would be blocking anyone of any real value from the rotation and once Liriano is traded another spot opens up. Maybe we could get lucky, and he would be a nice change of pace from the usual suspects that we typically bring in.

edavis0308
07-17-2012, 04:04 PM
I get the feeling that he just isn't a very good pitcher. NL to AL transition. Was it him or Bumgarner we completely lit up last year?

That being said, if we could add him to our roster and trim some fat off of it in the process while picking up a guy that isn't owed much, he could at the very least be a bit of an innings eater for the remainder of the year (though he never has topped 200 IP in a season).

Musk21
07-17-2012, 04:05 PM
Wait 'til Andy gets his hands on him.

USAFChief
07-17-2012, 04:05 PM
$3m shouldnt b a factor. Take a shot.

Jeremy Nygaard
07-17-2012, 04:07 PM
I get the feeling that he just isn't a very good pitcher. NL to AL transition. Was it him or Bumgarner we completely lit up last year?

That was Bumgarner. The Twins did hit Sanchez pretty hard a few weeks ago.

James
07-17-2012, 04:08 PM
The last time we claimed a pitcher, it worked out well, right?

Jeremy Nygaard
07-17-2012, 04:11 PM
He was DFA'ed so any team picking him up would get him for the minimum I believe.

If he's claimed off waivers the claiming team assumes his contract. If he clears waiver and is released, the team that signs him would probably sign him for the vet's minimum.

Marquis cleared waivers. Padres signed him for pro-rated vet's minimum. Twins are on the hook for the rest.

I don't think he'll be worth $3 from here til the end of the year, but if the Twins give it a shot... well, there are worse ways to spend $3m.

Jeremy Nygaard
07-17-2012, 04:15 PM
The last time we claimed a pitcher, it worked out well, right?

Are you referring to Matt Maloney or Jeff "Fifty Wins of" Gray?

johnnydakota
07-17-2012, 04:28 PM
He was DFA'ed so any team picking him up would get him for the minimum I believe.

I say go for it, it's not like he would be blocking anyone of any real value from the rotation and once Liriano is traded another spot opens up. Maybe we could get lucky, and he would be a nice change of pace from the usual suspects that we typically bring in.

once dfa'ed the team has 10 days to trade him, then he is released or sent down to the minors

DPJ
07-17-2012, 04:29 PM
His velocity is down and it's not like he has his command to fall back on...no thanks.

Jesus this is what this franchise has come to, questioning taking the Royals pictching scraps.

mike wants wins
07-17-2012, 04:33 PM
Nope, not interested. Now, I suppose if you get him in AAA, sure. Or, maybe you turn him into a minimum contract reliever (since you aren't allowed to call up players from AAA to pitch in relief....kidding....sort of....).

But as a possible MLB starter? No chance.

The Greatest Poster Alive
07-17-2012, 05:30 PM
if they can get him to the AAA team then go for it. The way this roster looks he'd be an upgrade over most of the pitching staff if he figured it out... It's not like he'd be stealing a roster spot from anyone in AAA.

James
07-17-2012, 06:10 PM
Are you referring to Matt Maloney or Jeff "Fifty Wins of" Gray?

I was actually referring to Dusty Hughes. We selected Maloney from the Reds and Gray from the Mariners, so they don't count for this one.

snepp
07-17-2012, 06:20 PM
Pass.

Badsmerf
07-17-2012, 07:07 PM
Wait 'til Andy gets his hands on him.

I didn't know the extent of the hazing going on with the Twins. Someone should look into that.

notoriousgod71
07-17-2012, 07:43 PM
Liriano > Oliver Perez > Sanchez

Three southpaws with good "stuff" who aim their pitches toward outer space.

Kobs
07-17-2012, 10:33 PM
No Hit Stuff!

nicksaviking
07-17-2012, 10:54 PM
I always thought the guy would end up in the bullpen. Throws hard but inconsistant and less than adaquate control. If the guy gets released and costs the prorated minimum why not go after him. Other clubs would think the same thing too however, and there are probably plenty of more attractive places than the basement of the AL Central. If he becomes a free agent and money is not a factor, someone more attractive than the Twins will come calling.

snepp
07-17-2012, 10:59 PM
Throws hard

Fastball averaged 89 MPH this season.

TheLeviathan
07-17-2012, 11:24 PM
3/24....see if he takes it.

Top Gun
07-17-2012, 11:37 PM
Why not you get him for the league min he K's alot and walks more but so did Randy Johnson and Nolan Ryan.

Top Gun
07-18-2012, 12:17 AM
KC traded Melky Cabrera for him, the scouts must have thought he was pretty good!

Shane Wahl
07-18-2012, 12:33 AM
I think not. His BB/9 rate is barbarically bad.

Parker Hageman
07-18-2012, 01:06 AM
You can view the page at http://twinsdaily.com/content.php?808-Should-the-Twins-pick-up-Jonathan-Sanchez

raindog
07-18-2012, 05:42 AM
It would be a nice gamble. Especially if we can bring him back next year for a cheap, incentive-laden deal.

TKGuy
07-18-2012, 07:05 AM
For the minimum, give it a try. Rather see him than Deduno throwing 100 pitches in 4 innings

Gernzy
07-18-2012, 07:54 AM
At this point I don't think it could hurt. If we get him cheap why not.

SpiritofVodkaDave
07-18-2012, 08:54 AM
There really is no reason not to pick him up if we only have to pay the minimum. I'd rather see him out on the mound starting games then Duensing, DeDundo etc.

Brock Beauchamp
07-18-2012, 08:57 AM
There really is no reason not to pick him up if we only have to pay the minimum. I'd rather see him out on the mound starting games then Duensing, DeDundo etc.

Well, Duensing is finally heading back to the pen. With Hendriks in the wings, he's probably next in line.

Given the Twins' season, I don't really see the point in picking up Sanchez, considering he's a FA after the season.

On the other hand, I don't really care too much if they do pick him up, either.

SpiritofVodkaDave
07-18-2012, 09:01 AM
Well, Duensing is finally heading back to the pen. With Hendriks in the wings, he's probably next in line.

Given the Twins' season, I don't really see the point in picking up Sanchez, considering he's a FA after the season.

On the other hand, I don't really care too much if they do pick him up, either.
Hendriks has bombed his first two time in the bigs, I'm not super concerned about that as I am sure he will be fine but I wouldn't mind the Twins giving him a bit more time in AAA to get his confidence high or fix whatever he is doing wrong in the big leagues.

Also Liriano will be gone within 2 weeks, I don't think Sanchez is anything special but at this point there is no reason not to take a chance on him and trot him out there for a few games, best case scenario is he shows some flashes of improvement and the Twins can lock him up to a team friendly 1 year/3 mil deal next year, certainly better than paying that money to the next Ramon Ortiz/Jason Marquis hybrid.

I'd be really curious to see if a change of scenery could do him some good, and again the risk is nothing.

Jim Crikket
07-18-2012, 12:19 PM
I'm not sure I see the upside to picking him up at this point. In the unlikely event the Twins are successful in correcting whatever his issues are and he pitches well, he and his agent will simply sell his services to the highest bidder in the offseason. What's the point in fixing a pitcher so another team can benefit from it next year? Do we really think he'd be so grateful to the Twins that he'd sign a team-friendly deal to stay? Doesn't seem likely. If they can get some kind of team-option for 2013, maybe it would be worth a shot. Otherwise, I don't see the point.

Parker Hageman
07-18-2012, 01:37 PM
In the unlikely event the Twins are successful in correcting whatever his issues are and he pitches well, he and his agent will simply sell his services to the highest bidder in the offseason.

Not suggesting he would experience a Liriano-like turnaround in 5-6 starts at the end of the year, but the Twins get to audition and first-hand experience with a pitcher who is likely poised to make less than $5 million. It gives them time to do some thorough due diligence on him. That's huge for a team who will be doing some shopping this winter.

Is it possible he and his agent choose another offer this winter? Sure but at least the Twins would know what they were buying versus a team on the open market who did not have the two-three months of being able to work with him.

jjswol
07-18-2012, 02:08 PM
No question, the Twins should pick him up ASAP!

Top Gun
07-18-2012, 02:23 PM
He is much like Liriano for one fourth the price.
Jonathan Sanchez threw a no-hitter in an 8-0 win over the Padres on Friday night.

Not only was it the first complete game of Sanchez's career, but he set a new career high with 11 strikeouts. Sanchez actually had a perfect game going Chase Headley reached on an error by third baseman Juan Uribe with one out in the eighth inning. Sanchez threw 110 pitches in the outing and didn't walk a batter. It was the 17th no-hitter in team history and the first since John Montefusco in 1976.



Sat, Jul 11, 2009

Thrylos
07-18-2012, 04:56 PM
Nah. And using certain pitching performance indicators, it was not a surprise that he has been an average/below average pitcher. Luck can take you so far...

YourHouseIsMyHouse
07-18-2012, 05:02 PM
He's a free agent this season and we wouldn't re-sign him anyway. It's too late to build value and trade him too (which the Royals must have also realized).

John Bonnes
07-18-2012, 05:16 PM
Not suggesting he would experience a Liriano-like turnaround in 5-6 starts at the end of the year, but the Twins get to audition and first-hand experience with a pitcher who is likely poised to make less than $5 million. It gives them time to do some thorough due diligence on him. That's huge for a team who will be doing some shopping this winter.

Is it possible he and his agent choose another offer this winter? Sure but at least the Twins would know what they were buying versus a team on the open market who did not have the two-three months of being able to work with him.

I think I agree with Jim - it depends on the art of the deal they work out. It couldn't be a standard deal. There is zero point in investing Aug and Sept innings in this guy just like there is zero point to investing Aug and Sept innings in Liriano - except that at leas Liriano is good.

But here's the thing - that is going to be the stance of every team, I would think. So maybe we're not talking about any team really wanting to give him a standard deal.

Sign him to a contract with a team option year at $6M or so. If he turns it around, great. If not, he is in the same place he was. At least with the Twins and their wide open rotation, he has the opportunity. If he doesn't want to go that way, forget it.

Top Gun
07-18-2012, 07:05 PM
Why would you give him a raise, he would be lucky to get 3 or 4M next season.

Thrylos
07-18-2012, 07:19 PM
Sign him to a contract with a team option year at $6M or so. If he turns it around, great. If not, he is in the same place he was. At least with the Twins and their wide open rotation, he has the opportunity. If he doesn't want to go that way, forget it.

That would be almost as bad a waste of money as the Capps, Marquis and Blackburn contracts...

His raw numbers say that he a. allows too much contact b. walks too many and c. when he goes to a league where the P does not bat, his K rate drops. Not a good combination for someone whose FB sits at 90-91. Disaster ready to happen like Marquis...

Ultima Ratio
07-18-2012, 10:03 PM
No.... to answer the question.

Parker Hageman
07-19-2012, 07:02 AM
His raw numbers say that he a. allows too much contact...c. when he goes to a league where the P does not bat, his K rate drops.

(A) That's completely inaccurate. Since 2008, even with the bad 2012 season factored in, his contact rate has been one of the lowest in baseball. At a 76% contact rate, only six other starters with 500 innings have had less contact against them in that time.

(C) He's had 37.2 innings against AL teams this year. Hard to make a sweeping judgement like that unless you are basing it on his 37 innings this year against AL teams. Almost all pitchers have a K-rate drop when they switch from NL to AL. Prior to this season, Sanchez had worked 90.2 innings against AL teams while posting an 84/46 K/BB ratio and allowed 37 earned runs (3.69 ERA).



There is zero point in investing Aug and Sept innings in this guy just like there is zero point to investing Aug and Sept innings in Liriano

Again, it's a first-hand look, that's the point. That's valuable for a team that is may be doing some heavy shopping this off-season. If he is available at no cost and the Twins can have a free 30-day trial period - great.

powrwrap
07-19-2012, 09:27 AM
Mixed feelings on this one.

The Twins need pitching and taking a low risk look at Sanchez for a couple of months is a good move.

Sanchez's historical lack of command and correspondingly high walk rate is troublesome. I can't think of any pitchers that have corrected their command problem at his age. Can anybody name a pitcher that significantly lowered their walk rate while in the upper 20's, lower 30's?

So you are likely going to get a pitcher with ERA in the mid-high 4's that walks a lot of guys and not be able to change it. I wouldn't want that. But that's better than most of the guys the Twins are currently running out there....

Mr. Ed
07-19-2012, 09:38 AM
That would be almost as bad a waste of money as the Capps, Marquis and Blackburn contracts...

His raw numbers say that he a. allows too much contact b. walks too many and c. when he goes to a league where the P does not bat, his K rate drops. Not a good combination for someone whose FB sits at 90-91. Disaster ready to happen like Marquis...

Let him pass through waivers, and if he's there, then sign him to a minor league deal, let Bobby Cuellar work with him. If he doesn't pan out, cut him loose.

No way should the Twins sign this guy to any Major League deal. The numbers are Matt Maloney-like.

CDog
07-19-2012, 10:52 AM
Can anybody name a pitcher that significantly lowered their walk rate while in the upper 20's, lower 30's?


Randy Johnson comes to mind. Cue Lloyd Bentsen rip off...

SpiritofVodkaDave
07-19-2012, 03:44 PM
According to MLBtraderumors the Twins would have interest assuming he passed through waivers.

Seth Stohs
07-20-2012, 11:48 AM
The Royals traded Jonathan Sanchez to Colorado for Jeremy Guthrie in an exchange of struggling veteran starters.

minn55441
07-20-2012, 01:32 PM
The Royals traded Jonathan Sanchez to Colorado for Jeremy Guthrie in an exchange of struggling veteran starters.


Our struggling starter wasn't good enough for them?

This would have been one of those great trades. Blackburn pitches for them tonight and we could have had Sanchez start for us. Just have them switch uniforms in the tunnel under the stadium and put duct tape over the names on the back.