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Parker Hageman
07-12-2012, 10:15 PM
...at Midway Stadium in St. Paul this summer as the Twin Cities' scrappy little east side club is hosting an atheist night (http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/07/12/leave-your-god-at-home-its-atheism-night-at-the-ballpark/). It's clever and all but it is a bit sacrilegious to the one true deity, the Flying Spaghetti Monster (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flying_Spaghetti_Monster).

Tuba
07-12-2012, 10:19 PM
"A night of unbelievable fun" Well played...

mike wants wins
07-12-2012, 10:43 PM
Fascinating, I was just looking up how to become ordained into the FSM church, so I could officiate some friends' wedding.

powrwrap
07-14-2012, 05:32 PM
Saints general manger Derek Sharrer said, "The one thing I can assure you is that it will be all in good fun. This isn't about mocking or ridiculing any one belief. This is about presenting the beliefs of this group of folks in a way that can be fun and entertaining."

I'm sorry, but I have no faith that atheists can avoid ridiculing other people's beliefs. Can't wait to see what they do (besides naming them the Aints for one game...pathetically unoriginal.) I fear it will be about mocking and ridiculing everyone's beliefs.

Bark's Lounge
07-14-2012, 05:42 PM
I'm sorry, but I have no faith that atheists can avoid ridiculing other people's beliefs. Can't wait to see what they do (besides naming them the Aints for one game...pathetically unoriginal.) I fear it will be about mocking and ridiculing everyone's beliefs.

Hey, hold on a second. Everyone loves mythology. Right?

IdahoPilgrim
07-14-2012, 06:39 PM
I personally think this goes too far. If they're going to do this, then I'd like to see a Christian Night (where my Christian beliefs are actively promoted; not just church groups attending) and a Jewish Night and a Muslim Night and a Hindu Night.

snepp
07-14-2012, 08:16 PM
I vote for a Pagan Night.

powrwrap
07-14-2012, 09:05 PM
Hey, hold on a second. Everyone loves mythology. Right?

Please elaborate.

Bark's Lounge
07-14-2012, 09:08 PM
This thread makes me want to smoke some ganja and take some shrooms.... awesome... and thanks!:o

glunn
07-14-2012, 09:23 PM
This thread makes me want to smoke some ganja and take some shrooms.... awesome... and thanks!:o

After today's game, I need to join you.

Bark's Lounge
07-14-2012, 09:38 PM
Please elaborate.

Hello Mr. Powerwrap. I am sure religion has had it's benefit for some and maybe they have executed it in way that is useful to mankind. The stories of Christianity, Judaism, and Islam are just as I said - stories. Not much different than a Spiderman Comic Book, a Sweet Valley High Short Novel, or reading the Onion News. Mythology can be fun and it can also be a detriment. I have people in my family and people who are distantly close to me who promote the ideas of being saved, spreading the message, and all of the other junk I do not care to mention while being morally flawed and without charity. The ancient Greeks worship many Gods, of these we mostly use the term mythology. All of these grandiose stories are basically the same and Blind Faith is intellectual suicide. Of this I cannot subscribe....

gunnarthor
07-14-2012, 09:41 PM
-sigh- Can we talk about politics next?

Bark's Lounge
07-14-2012, 09:45 PM
-sigh- Can we talk about politics next?

Sure - you start it....

Bark's Lounge
07-14-2012, 09:51 PM
After today's game, I need to join you.

Anytime... but tonights game has to be way more stomachable than last nights - July 13 (last night) was the true atrocity.

Thrylos
07-14-2012, 09:51 PM
I vote for a Pagan Night.

The Mets traded him to the Giants last offseason.
And got to love his full name btw. Angel Pagan or Pagan Angel. But not a Drunken Angel (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cckroKLPsqg)

Bark's Lounge
07-14-2012, 09:58 PM
The Mets traded him to the Giants last offseason.
And got to love his full name btw. Angel Pagan or Pagan Angel. But not a Drunken Angel (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cckroKLPsqg)

Nice:)

Scheherezade
07-14-2012, 10:14 PM
I'm sorry, but I have no faith that atheists can avoid ridiculing other people's beliefs. Can't wait to see what they do (besides naming them the Aints for one game...pathetically unoriginal.) I fear it will be about mocking and ridiculing everyone's beliefs.

While I find the idea of organized atheism a little silly, you could probably stand to chill out.



“I think our message here and our brand of entertainment has always been one that’s been inclusive,” Saints GM Derek Sharrer told FOX Sports North. “When we were approached by the Minnesota Atheists, we felt like it was within our nature to be inclusive and certainly work with them to provide them the opportunity to provide their message in the same way that we have worked with hundreds and hundreds of faith-based groups over our 20 years here in St. Paul.”

http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/07/12/leave-your-god-at-home-its-atheism-night-at-the-ballpark/

powrwrap
07-15-2012, 01:33 PM
While I find the idea of organized atheism a little silly, you could probably stand to chill out.



I guess we'll just have to wait and see what they do. I really can't see how they can celebrate the idea that there is no God and anyone that believes in one is stupid.

Shane Wahl
07-15-2012, 01:39 PM
I guess we'll just have to wait and see what they do. I really can't see how they can celebrate the idea that there is no God and anyone that believes in one is stupid.

I don't think it is because they think it is better that there is no god, but rather that it is true that there is no god and whether that makes them happy or not is irrelevant.

TheLeviathan
07-15-2012, 02:16 PM
I guess we'll just have to wait and see what they do. I really can't see how they can celebrate the idea that there is no God and anyone that believes in one is stupid.

No really, you need to lighten up. If you can't, then it's people with no sense of humor like yourself that I hope they do make fun of a little bit.

Oxtung
07-18-2012, 12:10 PM
I'm sorry, but I have no faith that atheists can avoid ridiculing other people's beliefs. Can't wait to see what they do (besides naming them the Aints for one game...pathetically unoriginal.) I fear it will be about mocking and ridiculing everyone's beliefs.

Oh the irony....

Oxtung
07-18-2012, 12:37 PM
While I find the idea of organized atheism a little silly...

You're looking at this all wrong. Atheists are part of a minority group in this country and as such they have "support groups" just the same as homosexuals, African Americans, factory workers, truck drivers, etc... It might interest you to know that atheists are the least trusted large minority group. American citizens are more comfortable with a gay person, Muslim, African American, or woman becoming president than an atheist. As such there is discrimination that occurs. To be clear I'm not saying Atheists have faced anything on the level of slavery, the intolerable working conditions of the poor in the 19th and 20th centuries, the racial profiling of Arab Americans, ect... but there is discrimination just the same. If you look back at history in this country the most effective way to combat discrimination is through massing large numbers of people to create a national dialogue. So between support groups and tools to drive political / ideological change organized atheism make sense.

Here are a couple of polls showing how little atheists are thought of:
http://www.gallup.com/poll/155285/Atheists-Muslims-Bias-Presidential-Candidates.aspx
http://www.gallup.com/poll/24385/Democrats-View-Religious-Groups-Less-Positively-Than-Republicans.aspx

powrwrap
07-19-2012, 11:52 AM
You're looking at this all wrong. Atheists are part of a minority group in this country and as such they have "support groups" just the same as homosexuals, African Americans, factory workers, truck drivers, etc...

Whoa. You are saying a minority group can be based on beliefs, activities, and vocations. I reject that. If you hold to that idea, then people that want to return to the gold standard are 'minorities.' So are moms that oppose breast feeding. Same thing with lifeguards. People that participate in knitting bees, etc. Ridiculous.

Boom Boom
07-19-2012, 12:22 PM
.

Whoa. You are saying a minority group can be based on beliefs, activities, and vocations. I reject that. If you hold to that idea, then people that want to return to the gold standard are 'minorities.' So are moms that oppose breast feeding. Same thing with lifeguards. People that participate in knitting bees, etc. Ridiculous.

Seems like this is a bad place to have this discussion, but of course minority groups can be based on beliefs. Religious groups (or in this case, non-religious groups) are minorities if they're not the biggest group.

powrwrap
07-19-2012, 12:56 PM
Seems like this is a bad place to have this discussion, but of course minority groups can be based on beliefs. Religious groups (or in this case, non-religious groups) are minorities if they're not the biggest group.

Don't think so. In your scenario a person could go from a minority to a majority person merely by changing their mind.

Boom Boom
07-19-2012, 01:01 PM
Don't think so. In your scenario a person could go from a minority to a majority person merely by changing their mind.

That is very correct. An American atheist could, by converting to Christianity, join a majority group.

deanlambrecht
07-19-2012, 01:07 PM
Don't think so. In your scenario a person could go from a minority to a majority person merely by changing their mind.


Oh, boy. Okay. http://www.thefreedictionary.com/minority


mi·nor·i·ty
n. pl.
mi·nor·i·ties
1.
a. The smaller in number of two groups forming a whole.
b. A group or party having fewer than a controlling number of votes.
2.
a. A racial, religious, political, national, or other group thought to be different from the larger group of which it is part.
b. A group having little power or representation relative to other groups within a society.
c. A member of one of these groups.
3. Law The state or period of being under legal age: still in her minority.

[French minorité, from Medieval Latin minhttp://img.tfd.com/hm/GIF/omacr.gifrithttp://img.tfd.com/hm/GIF/amacr.gifs, from Latin minor, smaller; see minor.]


But really, why are we having this discussion here? The Saints can do what they damn well please. If it pisses off religious believers, than those believers can simply not go to the game. Or they can kick it up a notch and actively boycott, or even organize a protest. But whining on twinsdaily.com is almost certainly the least effective way to go about airing your complaints, and can lead one into a display of ignorance, e.g., demonstrating that one doesn't know how to use a dictionary to determine the meaning of a given word.

Boom Boom
07-19-2012, 01:17 PM
But really, why are we having this discussion here?

I saw a brick wall and couldn't help myself from slamming my head into it repeatedly.

powrwrap
07-19-2012, 01:32 PM
Oh, boy. Okay. http://www.thefreedictionary.com/minority
But really, why are we having this discussion here? The Saints can do what they damn well please. If it pisses off religious believers, than those believers can simply not go to the game. Or they can kick it up a notch and actively boycott, or even organize a protest.

Or go there en masse and proselytize.


But whining on twinsdaily.com is almost certainly the least effective way to go about airing your complaints, and can lead one into a display of ignorance, e.g., demonstrating that one doesn't know how to use a dictionary to determine the meaning of a given word.

Going by the broad, dictionary based definition of 'minority', you realize that everyone is in some kind of a minority and could claim minority status.

Brock Beauchamp
07-19-2012, 04:25 PM
then I'd like to see a Christian Night (where my Christian beliefs are actively promoted; not just church groups attending)

I believe that's called "All Day, Every Day" in America.

Let the Atheists have their fun. It's not hurting anyone. Good for the Saints for catering to a relatively small but ever-growing segment of modern society that is unnecessarily ridiculed because they, of all the dastardly things, don't believe in God.

Tcrose3636
07-19-2012, 04:30 PM
Yeah! Go Aints!!....oh

I am with ya that the Saints can do whatever they please, but when they start asking for public money to fund refurbishing their stadium...they really shouldn't tick off the majority of the tax payers. Did I use majority correctly?

Bark's Lounge
07-19-2012, 04:58 PM
Those damn Atheists will be the death of us. Their beliefs have never started wars, they never go door to door trying to force their idealism on other citizens, they believe in science to a fault (yuck), they have never conquered foreign land in the name of their beliefs - killing the men of these conquered lands and raping their women and burning their civilizations to the ground. Those damn Atheist... we need to round them up and rid ourselves of these poisonous parasites for good! Amen.

biggentleben
07-19-2012, 05:07 PM
Those damn Atheists will be the death of us. Their beliefs have never started wars, they never go door to door trying to force their idealism on other citizens, they believe in science to a fault (yuck), they have never conquered foreign land in the name of their beliefs - killing the men of these conquered lands and raping their women and burning their civilizations to the ground. Those damn Atheist... we need to round them up and rid ourselves of these poisonous parasites for good! Amen.

While I won't debate the believer/athiest deal here, I will say that in every faith/race/demographic majority, work has been done to suppress the minority, and that is work of the human spirit, not something that is unique to white people, Christians, Jews, men, or any majority group. Mainly, these conflicts and forced states up on others all boil down to a human desire for power and control, and that's not unique to any faith group, any race, or any other demographic section.

Scheherezade
07-19-2012, 06:30 PM
You're looking at this all wrong. Atheists are part of a minority group in this country and as such they have "support groups" just the same as homosexuals, African Americans, factory workers, truck drivers, etc... It might interest you to know that atheists are the least trusted large minority group. American citizens are more comfortable with a gay person, Muslim, African American, or woman becoming president than an atheist. As such there is discrimination that occurs. To be clear I'm not saying Atheists have faced anything on the level of slavery, the intolerable working conditions of the poor in the 19th and 20th centuries, the racial profiling of Arab Americans, ect... but there is discrimination just the same. If you look back at history in this country the most effective way to combat discrimination is through massing large numbers of people to create a national dialogue. So between support groups and tools to drive political / ideological change organized atheism make sense.

Here are a couple of polls showing how little atheists are thought of:
http://www.gallup.com/poll/155285/Atheists-Muslims-Bias-Presidential-Candidates.aspx
http://www.gallup.com/poll/24385/Democrats-View-Religious-Groups-Less-Positively-Than-Republicans.aspx

Does it matter that I'm an atheist myself? I don't feel persecuted for my lack of faith, nor do I feel the need to proselytize. I'd much rather be atheist than gay in a room full of Christians.

I can't speak for those involved in organized atheism, only my own personal experience.

powrwrap
07-19-2012, 09:57 PM
Those damn Atheists will be the death of us. Their beliefs have never started wars, they never go door to door trying to force their idealism on other citizens, they believe in science to a fault (yuck), they have never conquered foreign land in the name of their beliefs - killing the men of these conquered lands and raping their women and burning their civilizations to the ground. Those damn Atheist... we need to round them up and rid ourselves of these poisonous parasites for good! Amen.

Yes, of course, Joseph Stalin never killed anyone.

Ultima Ratio
07-19-2012, 10:04 PM
Those damn Atheists will be the death of us. Their beliefs have never started wars, they never go door to door trying to force their idealism on other citizens, they believe in science to a fault (yuck), they have never conquered foreign land in the name of their beliefs - killing the men of these conquered lands and raping their women and burning their civilizations to the ground. Those damn Atheist... we need to round them up and rid ourselves of these poisonous parasites for good! Amen.

You're kidding right? Maybe not in the name of atheism, but as a necessary condition, all kinds of suffering has come at the hands of those who replace a deity as a first or limit principle and insert a person, group, government, ideology or some other authoritarian institution in it's place.

Bark's Lounge
07-19-2012, 10:17 PM
Yes, of course, Joseph Stalin never killed anyone.

Stalin falls under the Cult of Personality clause, I could not tell you what he believed in. He was an atrocious human being (murdering 10's of Millions). I expected a reply using him or Hitler as an example. Is he an Atheist - I don't know. Am I an Atheist - No. I don't assume anything. I guess I am an agnostic. Stalin and Hitler are an easy way to force feed me Christian Righteousness. I'm not a buyer.

Ultima Ratio
07-19-2012, 10:21 PM
Whatever, if the Saints think this is great marketing ploy, great. They are a private enterprise and can (should be able to) appeal to and promote.... and contrariwise alienate and reject whomever and whatever they want.

Ultima Ratio
07-19-2012, 10:27 PM
Stalin falls under the Cult of Personality clause, I could not tell you what he believed in. He was an atrocious human being (murdering 10's of Millions). I expected a reply using him or Hitler as an example. Is he an Atheist - I don't know. Am I an Atheist - No. I don't assume anything. I guess I am an agnostic. Stalin and Hitler are an easy way to force feed me Christian Righteousness. I'm not a buyer.
Be careful not to conflate two arguments. POWER's point was to your argument that atheists are largely (or relatively) benign, not that you should convert to theism.

Highabove
07-19-2012, 10:32 PM
I believe the North Koreans are Atheist.

Bark's Lounge
07-19-2012, 10:45 PM
You're kidding right? Maybe not in the name of atheism, but as a necessary condition, all kinds of suffering has come at the hands of those who replace a deity as a first or limit principle and insert a person, group, government, ideology or some other authoritarian institution in it's place.

Hey Ultima Ratio (for once I got your name right). I was not talking about "Cult of Personality Dictators". I am sure there are some who could fall in line with being non-religious, of this I do not know the stats. Being an individual who grew up in the ****ty parts of town and living hand to mouth as a child might have something to do my understanding of our society. Poor people usually adhere themselves to religion, because they are bankrupt of hope, finances, knowledge, and vision. I am somewhat offended that the words I have used in this thread have been used against me, and taken out context. Ignorance holds the hand of the downtroddened. Ultima Ratio - you are a professor or teacher.. right? I will not say "you should know better", but I expect a lot more from you as an educated man. I will leave you with this:

What happens to a dream deferred?
Does it dry up
like a raisin in the sun?
Or fester like a sore--
And then run?
Does it stink like rotten meat?
Or crust and sugar over--
like a syrupy sweet?
Maybe it just sags
like a heavy load.
Or does it explode?

Highabove
07-19-2012, 10:53 PM
Their Marketing works.

We're talking Saints Baseball.

Aren't we??????????

Ultima Ratio
07-19-2012, 11:18 PM
I am somewhat offended that the words I have used in this thread have been used against me, and taken out context. Ignorance holds the hand of the downtroddened. .... I will not say "you should know better", but I expect a lot more from you as an educated man.

I'm unclear with the following:

1. What should I know better? That education liberates the mind and body? And that by pointing out that you are wrong about a convergence of atheists with good behavior I've somehow betrayed that knowledge?

Or are you saying that I should know better than to be a theist (if I am)?

2. What's been taken out of context? I don't see that it has happened therefore I don't know why your are offended. Offended by what?

Look, I don't care what you believe in and I really don't wish to debate it, but you've made some statements here which I think you should take ownership of or clarify.

I swear I didn't look up the poem, but will guess that it's Nietzche from "The Gay Science"

Bark's Lounge
07-19-2012, 11:29 PM
Man is born free, but everywhere he is in chains.

Ultima Ratio
07-19-2012, 11:31 PM
Anything else? The poem? Edit: I looked it up. Nice.

Bark's Lounge
07-19-2012, 11:34 PM
Anything else? The poem? Edit: I looked it up. Nice.

Langston Hughes.

Bark's Lounge
07-19-2012, 11:46 PM
I am tired of the arguments, Nobody really needs them. Maybe I will explode.... :mad:

Shane Wahl
07-20-2012, 01:50 AM
Langston Hughes.

Wait, the quote?

That's Rousseau.

Oxtung
07-20-2012, 10:58 PM
Does it matter that I'm an atheist myself? I don't feel persecuted for my lack of faith, nor do I feel the need to proselytize. I'd much rather be atheist than gay in a room full of Christians.

I can't speak for those involved in organized atheism, only my own personal experience.

You stated that you didn't understand the need for organized atheism. I took that to mean "if you don't believe in God why would you organize to not believe in said God?" Which I totally agree with...that makes no sense to me, but if that is what others need then so be it I don't care. I was merely showing that there are reasons other than religion to for Atheists to organize. And to answer your question directly no it doesn't matter to me what your personal beliefs are.