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Cap'n Piranha
07-09-2012, 04:16 PM
According to Jon Heyman (via mlbtraderumors--link below), Appel is leaning against signing with the Pirates, because he wants more than the 3.84m bonus the Pirates can give, and not surrender a first round pick. I'm not sure I understand this move; isn't next year's different class, at least at this point, considered a stronger one than this year's? Therefore wouldn't Appel project to fall right aroudn this spot again, or does he think he'll be able to improve his stock that much in one year? Furthermore, doesn't the fact that he exhausts his eligibility at Stanford next year reduce his bargaining power? Basically, it seems like Appel, thanks to Scott Boras, is walking away from nearly 4 million dollars gauranteed, in the hopes that he moves up to the 1st-3rd slot. Maybe I'm missing something, but if I'm not, I'm kinda surprised, because I thought Stanford was supposed to be for smart kids.

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2012/07/latest-on-pirates-mark-appel.html?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

drivlikejehu
07-09-2012, 04:25 PM
Isn't Heyman known as a mouthpiece for Boras? Could be a negotiating ploy, though I'm not sure to what end. Appel would have to be insane to walk away from that kind of money.

IdahoPilgrim
07-09-2012, 04:31 PM
Just out of curiousity, if he is drafted in similar position next year, and again chooses not to sign, how long before he can sign with anyone as a free agent? 1 year?

Highabove
07-09-2012, 04:33 PM
I wonder if we can look forward to seeing him in a Saint Paul Saints Uniform.

righty8383
07-09-2012, 04:34 PM
I haven't seen one respected writer suggest that next years class looks stronger, so that may be the only thing Appel has going for him. Even if the draft class in the same or even weeker than this year, its still a stupid risk for Appel.

jorgenswest
07-09-2012, 04:57 PM
It is well documented that 2012 class was the weakest in a decade. It was especially weak in the top 10 and became weaker when Giolito injured his arm. Appel has to realize that he likely will not go any higher in next year's draft. Even a below average group will be better than this year's group. I wonder if Boras' plan is to test this case in court and try to make him a free agent.

biggentleben
07-09-2012, 11:57 PM
Another signing period, another high prospect threatening up to the last moment that he won't sign. Wake me up when he hasn't signed after the 14th.

glunn
07-10-2012, 01:43 AM
Here is a link to an ESPN article about next year's draft class. http://espn.go.com/high-school/baseball/story/_/id/7878486/a-closer-look-espn-60-baseball-player-rankings

IdahoPilgrim
07-10-2012, 07:31 AM
Here's another thing Appel might want to think about if he's hoping to go go high next year and get a big signing bonus - he will then have a track record of being difficult to sign, which may cause other teams to look elsewhere. My guess, if he goes into next year's draft, is he falls again to mid 1st round.

Cody Christie
07-10-2012, 07:40 AM
He better just take the large amount of money the Pirates are offering and start playing his professional career.

Jeff P
07-10-2012, 08:30 AM
Just out of curiousity, if he is drafted in similar position next year, and again chooses not to sign, how long before he can sign with anyone as a free agent? 1 year?

I am curious about that too, if he falls in next years draft due to signability concerns or injury, his slot amount might be less than what he could get if he waited a year (if that is the time) and opened up the bidding to all teams.

Of course I doubt it would be any where near the 3.8M he potentially is turning down now.

Jeremy Nygaard
07-10-2012, 08:33 AM
Another signing period, another high prospect threatening up to the last moment that he won't sign. Wake me up when he hasn't signed after the 14th.

Agreed. All of the unsigned guys - as of now - aren't gonna sign. And of the big names (Appel, Gausman and Giolito), Appel has by far the least leverage.

gunnarthor
07-10-2012, 09:44 AM
It is well documented that 2012 class was the weakest in a decade. It was especially weak in the top 10 and became weaker when Giolito injured his arm. Appel has to realize that he likely will not go any higher in next year's draft. Even a below average group will be better than this year's group. I wonder if Boras' plan is to test this case in court and try to make him a free agent.

Klaw mentioned that (while it's still early) Appel would probably be #1 in next years draft, too.

While I generally agree with the sentiment that he should take the 3.8m and start his career, it is conceivable that he could make more if he doesn't sign. I think the risk is too much and wouldn't do it but I'm not him. Cubs could take him in the top 3 for instance and pay him 5-6m pretty easily. And while he lacks some leverage, I don't think any team taking him next year would try to screw him over by giving him a lowball offer or not intending to sign him - esp since Boras is such an important agent in all of baseball. He could slide but I think teams will be better prepared for sliding players next year.

Brock Beauchamp
07-10-2012, 11:49 AM
Klaw mentioned that (while it's still early) Appel would probably be #1 in next years draft, too.

While I generally agree with the sentiment that he should take the 3.8m and start his career, it is conceivable that he could make more if he doesn't sign. I think the risk is too much and wouldn't do it but I'm not him. Cubs could take him in the top 3 for instance and pay him 5-6m pretty easily. And while he lacks some leverage, I don't think any team taking him next year would try to screw him over by giving him a lowball offer or not intending to sign him - esp since Boras is such an important agent in all of baseball. He could slide but I think teams will be better prepared for sliding players next year.

An extra year of free agency after his six year service time is worth up to ten times more than any additional bonus he'll get for holding out.

Seth Stohs
07-10-2012, 11:55 AM
Just out of curiousity, if he is drafted in similar position next year, and again chooses not to sign, how long before he can sign with anyone as a free agent? 1 year?

Unless there is a court case of some sort, he would never become a free agent. If he doesn't sign this July, he would go back into next year's draft. If he doesn't sign then, he would go back into the next draft. And on and on.

greengoblinrulz
07-10-2012, 11:57 AM
New system.....which most of us love.....could be the end of Scott Boros style agents in the draft. Boros, not Appel, cost the pitcher several slots in this draft.....meaning millions

righty8383
07-10-2012, 12:16 PM
New system.....which most of us love.....could be the end of Scott Boros style agents in the draft. Boros, not Appel, cost the pitcher several slots in this draft.....meaning millions

Yep, If I were a big time draft prospect I don't even think I would hire an agent (by that I mean listen to an advisor). In fact I would probably just wait until I made my big league debut before I started looking into agents.

gunnarthor
07-10-2012, 12:26 PM
An extra year of free agency after his six year service time is worth up to ten times more than any additional bonus he'll get for holding out.

Only if his body holds up after all those years. Mark Prior's signing bonus was almost as much as his entire career earnings.

(That's why I'd take the 3.8m now rather than risk another year of college ball but there is some sense in trying to make as much as you can now instead of hoping for a major payoff 6-9 years from now).

Musk21
07-10-2012, 12:46 PM
I guess God's plan for him was to turn down almost $4 million in hopes of an extra few million next year. God is great! And works in mysterious ways!

Brock Beauchamp
07-10-2012, 01:05 PM
Only if his body holds up after all those years. Mark Prior's signing bonus was almost as much as his entire career earnings.

(That's why I'd take the 3.8m now rather than risk another year of college ball but there is some sense in trying to make as much as you can now instead of hoping for a major payoff 6-9 years from now).

The key difference is that now, signing bonuses are slotted. That limits what Appel can get in the first place.

StormJH1
07-10-2012, 01:05 PM
This is fascinating to me. Didn't they turn down preliminary offers from Houston of around $6 million? What exactly was the point of driving a hard bargain with the teams at the top of the draft board, if the teams further down below CAN'T offer more money by the rules?

Also, doesn't PIT have the option of exceeding the signing bonus cap this year and forfeiting their pick next year? Might it even make sense for them to do so, if they got a pitcher who is Top 3 talent this year, and could end up picking 8th, 12th, 15th, or whatever next year?

If they can't sign Appel, they basically "forfeit" this pick anyway, though I assume there's some type of compensatory pick for them next year if that happens.

righty8383
07-10-2012, 01:17 PM
doesn't PIT have the option of exceeding the signing bonus cap this year and forfeiting their pick next year? Might it even make sense for them to do so, if they got a pitcher who is Top 3 talent this year, and could end up picking 8th, 12th, 15th, or whatever next year?

If they can't sign Appel, they basically "forfeit" this pick anyway, though I assume there's some type of compensatory pick for them next year if that happens.

There is no way they will go over to the point where they lose next year's pick. Appel is not worth that much. Also, if they don't sign him, they would get the #9 pick next year along with their other 1st round pick that will be determined at the end of the regular season.

USAFChief
07-10-2012, 01:26 PM
I hope he doesn't sign, and blows out his arm.

IdahoPilgrim
07-10-2012, 01:49 PM
This is fascinating to me. Didn't they turn down preliminary offers from Houston of around $6 million? What exactly was the point of driving a hard bargain with the teams at the top of the draft board, if the teams further down below CAN'T offer more money by the rules?


That was the point of the new CBA - they were trying to reduce the impact of "signability" (draftees deciding who they're going to play for by telling teams whether they would sign or not) on the draft by basically predetermining how much each pick would be worth. Obviously, agents hate the new rules, and I think Boras is intentionally trying to spike the system before it gets off the ground. We'll see if it works.

Brock Beauchamp
07-10-2012, 02:16 PM
That was the point of the new CBA - they were trying to reduce the impact of "signability" (draftees deciding who they're going to play for by telling teams whether they would sign or not) on the draft by basically predetermining how much each pick would be worth. Obviously, agents hate the new rules, and I think Boras is intentionally trying to spike the system before it gets off the ground. We'll see if it works.

He's going to fail miserably. Everybody except agents like this rule. The owners, the front offices, the MLBPA... They're all supporters of this system.

Scott Boras can suck it.

tobynotjason
07-10-2012, 02:21 PM
Law is in deep, deep speculation land (and not at all representative of industry consensus) when he says Appel is the best bet to go 1.1. You never really know how a draft is going to shape up until a couple months out, anyway.

Smart Pirates message boards are basically A-OK if he walks, content that next year's draft can't be worse. And lots of very smart folks are just not high on Appel at all: did you hear how underwhelmed Goldtein was on his podcast a couple months ago?

But as far as the link goes: Yeah, it's Heyman, ergo it's Boras. It's just posturing, and nobody knows anything.

This Pirates fan, FWIW, hopes they sign Buehler with most of the extra money, then offer Appel slot plus any leftover crumbs.

twinsfan214
07-10-2012, 02:27 PM
Right I heard this too and it made no sense that he turned it down. Obviously then the Astros weren't going to take him first. The further down he went, the less his slot was worth. It's a great system. This poor kid either didn't do his research or hired the wrong agent (or both).

gunnarthor
07-10-2012, 02:43 PM
Also, doesn't PIT have the option of exceeding the signing bonus cap this year and forfeiting their pick next year? Might it even make sense for them to do so, if they got a pitcher who is Top 3 talent this year, and could end up picking 8th, 12th, 15th, or whatever next year?

I think you can (and Boras probably is) make the argument that Appel now is worth more than what the Pirates should have expected with the 8th overall pick and next year's pick sitting at roughly #20 or worse if Pirates success continues. And I think the Pirates are likely to get an extra pick in next years draft after the first round due to their low revenue. Still, if I were the Pirates, I'd hope he signs for the 3.8 or so and starts his pro career early.

tobynotjason
07-10-2012, 02:47 PM
I think you can (and Boras probably is) make the argument that Appel now is worth more than what the Pirates should have expected with the 8th overall pick and next year's pick sitting at roughly #20 or worse if Pirates success continues. And I think the Pirates are likely to get an extra pick in next years draft after the first round due to their low revenue. Still, if I were the Pirates, I'd hope he signs for the 3.8 or so and starts his pro career early.

Pirates pick next year for Appel would be #8b.

nicksaviking
07-10-2012, 04:27 PM
I'm sure his stock will go up next year when he's a senior instead of a junior with another 120 hard innings tacked on his shoulder. Those college coaches at the big programs never abuse their pitchers in a way that would make MLB scouts cringe.

Winston Smith
07-10-2012, 04:43 PM
Good luck with this one kid! A bird in the hand is better than Tommy John surgery next year!

Rosterman
07-10-2012, 04:58 PM
Can a player still increase their signing bonus by taking it long-term, like say $10 million over three years with a guarantee that they go to spring training and added immediately to the 40-man, et al? Or was that thrown out the door with the new agreements?

mike wants wins
07-10-2012, 05:17 PM
I hope he doesn't sign, and blows out his arm.

Why would anyone wish this on someone? He has every right not to sign if he wants. Maybe he really likes college. Maybe he hates Pittsburgh. What difference does it make why he doesn't sign?

mike wants wins
07-10-2012, 05:19 PM
No way they forfeight their pick next year to take Appel. They get pick 9 (or 8b) if they don't sign him. And, while that player may not be as good as Appel, they also get their regular pick. I wouldn't trade picks 8 and 15-20 for Appel.

Thrylos
07-10-2012, 05:54 PM
I just wish that NCAA was fair and treated baseball players like football players so Appel would lose his eligibility for hiring a professional agent. If that were the case, the only place he could play ball in the US is Independent or beer leagues. No college kids should be able to influence the integrity of the draft. If he does not sign and goes to College for another season and gets hurt, he is up the proverbial creek. So it is silly not to do it, since $3.4 M is pretty high with the new standards...

Thrylos
07-10-2012, 05:55 PM
Can a player still increase their signing bonus by taking it long-term, like say $10 million over three years with a guarantee that they go to spring training and added immediately to the 40-man, et al? Or was that thrown out the door with the new agreements?

Those were Major League Contracts. Delmon had one of those. They are history with the new CBA.

Thrylos
07-10-2012, 05:56 PM
I think you can (and Boras probably is) make the argument that Appel now is worth more than what the Pirates should have expected with the 8th overall pick and next year's pick sitting at roughly #20 or worse if Pirates success continues. And I think the Pirates are likely to get an extra pick in next years draft after the first round due to their low revenue. Still, if I were the Pirates, I'd hope he signs for the 3.8 or so and starts his pro career early.


And if he does not sign. The Pirates will get the 9th pick of next years draft as a compensation per the new CBA. The only one to lose here is Boras/Appel

USAFChief
07-10-2012, 09:45 PM
Why would anyone wish this on someone? He has every right not to sign if he wants. Maybe he really likes college. Maybe he hates Pittsburgh. What difference does it make why he doesn't sign?

He certainly does.

I hope he blows out his arm, blows his chances of ever playing major league baseball, and blows $3+M. Maybe Scott Boras will make it up to him.

And maybe in the future the Twins won't have to fight with some draft pick to get him to sign.

drjim
07-10-2012, 09:52 PM
I have to admit that I was a huge skeptic of the new CBA and the impact it would have on the draft, but it has been a huge success. Players are getting signed quickly and getting pro experience, smart teams are still able to leverage their positions, and there is now more equity in overall draft outlays. To top it off there is no evidence that I have seen that MLB lost players to other sports.

gunnarthor
07-10-2012, 10:10 PM
And if he does not sign. The Pirates will get the 9th pick of next years draft as a compensation per the new CBA. The only one to lose here is Boras/Appel

Appel would probably be the biggest loser in that situation but it could work out for him. He could be drafted by the Cubs #2 and get 6m or so and then haunt the Pirates for a decade.

The Pirates will be losers too, if they don't sign Appel. They'll lose a year of development time of a potential top prospect and, as a team pretty reliant on its farm system to develop players, that would hurt. True, they'll get a reimbursement pick next year but that still doesn't make up for their loss this year. It just mitigates it some. That's why you don't see teams blowing top picks in one year, hoping to get a better pick in the next years draft.

And, while I think it's a stupid idea, going over slot for Appel isn't crazy, depending on how the Pirates view him. I think most Twins would be ok with the idea of losing the rights to a Levi Michael type for a true ace. (esp since the Pirates have another first round supp pick to play with).

greengoblinrulz
07-10-2012, 10:49 PM
Can a player still increase their signing bonus by taking it long-term, like say $10 million over three years with a guarantee that they go to spring training and added immediately to the 40-man, et al? Or was that thrown out the door with the new agreements?

thrown out...no major league contracts

biggentleben
07-11-2012, 08:52 AM
I just wish that NCAA was fair and treated baseball players like football players so Appel would lose his eligibility for hiring a professional agent. If that were the case, the only place he could play ball in the US is Independent or beer leagues. No college kids should be able to influence the integrity of the draft. If he does not sign and goes to College for another season and gets hurt, he is up the proverbial creek. So it is silly not to do it, since $3.4 M is pretty high with the new standards...

Technically, Boras is not his official agent until AFTER he signs. He's an "advisor", a messed up system that's been there for years.

biggentleben
07-11-2012, 08:59 AM
This could be the first Matt Harrington of the new system.

SpiritofVodkaDave
07-11-2012, 09:20 AM
Gausman isn't going to sign as well.

gunnarthor
07-11-2012, 11:01 AM
Gausman isn't going to sign as well.

No way, that's just negotiating tactic. No one goes back to college to win the college WS. He'll sign.

Badsmerf
07-11-2012, 06:43 PM
Appel would probably be the biggest loser in that situation but it could work out for him. He could be drafted by the Cubs #2 and get 6m or so and then haunt the Pirates for a decade.

The Pirates will be losers too, if they don't sign Appel. They'll lose a year of development time of a potential top prospect and, as a team pretty reliant on its farm system to develop players, that would hurt. True, they'll get a reimbursement pick next year but that still doesn't make up for their loss this year. It just mitigates it some. That's why you don't see teams blowing top picks in one year, hoping to get a better pick in the next years draft.

And, while I think it's a stupid idea, going over slot for Appel isn't crazy, depending on how the Pirates view him. I think most Twins would be ok with the idea of losing the rights to a Levi Michael type for a true ace. (esp since the Pirates have another first round supp pick to play with).

Thats if you think he's an ace, which I have my doubts.... which others do as well.

gunnarthor
07-11-2012, 07:20 PM
Thats if you think he's an ace, which I have my doubts.... which others do as well.

True.

As a Twins fan, I think we should hope that Appal and Gausman don't sign - it'll give more depth to next years (so far underwhelming) draft. But I still think both sign.

John Bonnes
07-11-2012, 07:32 PM
If the Pirates can't sign Appel, it has another side effect - they have $4M left over to spend, possible at the trade deadline. If Morneau was hitting a little better, that's the kind of news I could get pretty excited about.

biggentleben
07-12-2012, 03:07 PM
If the Pirates can't sign Appel, it has another side effect - they have $4M left over to spend, possible at the trade deadline. If Morneau was hitting a little better, that's the kind of news I could get pretty excited about.

Well, they have that money and more that they can use, but they would have ~$4M to use toward international free agents that can come around or toward other picks they have not signed. That number is toward drafting/signing new players as a limit by MLB, not something set forth by their ownership, which would reflect on the MLB payroll.

IdahoPilgrim
07-12-2012, 03:25 PM
Well, they have that money and more that they can use, but they would have ~$4M to use toward international free agents that can come around or toward other picks they have not signed. That number is toward drafting/signing new players as a limit by MLB, not something set forth by their ownership, which would reflect on the MLB payroll.

I think it's the reverse, actually. That $4M (less, actually, since that number assumed they went 5% over the pool limit) can not be used for other draft picks; if Appel doesn't sign, his slotted pool value disappears and can't be used for other picks. They also have a hard $2.9M cap for international signings regardless (as do all teams this year). The money that is not spent on the draft or international signings, however, could be offered to a free agent or used as a pot sweetener in a trade. The money comes out of a different pocket, so to speak, so it is not a straight transfer over, but the net effect is the same. Kind of like robbing Peter to pay Paul.

biggentleben
07-12-2012, 04:06 PM
I was mistaken that it cannot be used in international, but it is draft bonus pool usable for the entire pool. There's a limit on how much you can use in the first 10 picks, but if they chose to spend that $4M on various other picks it's perfectly fine, as long as they stay within their top 10 pick limit.

drjim
07-12-2012, 04:14 PM
I was mistaken that it cannot be used in international, but it is draft bonus pool usable for the entire pool. There's a limit on how much you can use in the first 10 picks, but if they chose to spend that $4M on various other picks it's perfectly fine, as long as they stay within their top 10 pick limit.

That's not true. If you don't sign a pick from the first 10 rounds you lose that specific draft pick's slot in your draft pool. You can't pick someone, not sign them, and then use that money elsewhere. What you can do is draft someone, sign them below slot, and then use the leftover slot money for another pick.

diehardtwinsfan
07-12-2012, 04:41 PM
The problem with this CBA is that they should let teams that were below .500 spend a little extra on draft/international without penalty... that's just me at least. That said, this situation is pretty interesting. Appel may be upset, but there really isn't much he can do about it. He's taking a huge risk by not signing. Here's the thing. If they guy was Bryce Harper or Steven Strasburg, I have no doubt in my mind that teams would be willing to potentially forfeit a pick next year to sign him overslot. But he's not one of those guys. He's likely to be a good MLB pitcher, but I doubt he's playing in Pittsburg come September. The Pirates would be wise to play hardball with him.

John Bonnes
07-12-2012, 04:43 PM
That's not true. If you don't sign a pick from the first 10 rounds you lose that specific draft pick's slot in your draft pool. You can't pick someone, not sign them, and then use that money elsewhere. What you can do is draft someone, sign them below slot, and then use the leftover slot money for another pick.


And (i'm not sure about this but) I think they later round picks have a cap of like $100,000. So there are fewer and fewer real good options on where to spend that money.

Ultimately, I think Appel will sign, but if he doesn't, we have a true rarity: a competetive Pirates team with money to spend. blink. blink.

biggentleben
07-12-2012, 04:44 PM
That's not true. If you don't sign a pick from the first 10 rounds you lose that specific draft pick's slot in your draft pool. You can't pick someone, not sign them, and then use that money elsewhere. What you can do is draft someone, sign them below slot, and then use the leftover slot money for another pick.

Yep, I mistook that in reading the CBA.

drjim
07-12-2012, 04:48 PM
And (i'm not sure about this but) I think they later round picks have a cap of like $100,000. So there are fewer and fewer real good options on where to spend that money.

Ultimately, I think Appel will sign, but if he doesn't, we have a true rarity: a competetive Pirates team with money to spend. blink. blink.

Later rounds have a slot of $100,000, not a cap. So you can sign a guy for $300k and that counts $200k against your cap. However, if you sign a guy for under $100k in those rounds, you don't get to bank the difference. Only in the first 10 rounds can you bank the savings of the slot number.

That is why some teams (like the Blue Jays), took seniors in rounds 4-10, signed them for $10k or less and then used the savings to pay above slot for some early picks as well as some picks after round 10.

James Richter
07-12-2012, 05:25 PM
This is fascinating to me. Didn't they turn down preliminary offers from Houston of around $6 million? What exactly was the point of driving a hard bargain with the teams at the top of the draft board, if the teams further down below CAN'T offer more money by the rules?
I'm sure the thought was that Appel would either go #1 or #2, so why agree to take less than the slot value of the #2 pick (the $6.2M the Twins gave Buxton)? That was rational enough. But when the Astros picked option C (Correa), Boras' strategy blew up in his face: the Twins though Buxton was the better talent, the Mariners wanted Zunino, the O's and Royals scouts preferred Gausman and Zimmer, the Cubs always wanted Almora. Before they new it, more than $6M had turned into less than $4M.

What is not rational is to risk this kid's future on the slim chance that he'll be picked higher next year. Appel wasn't the consensus top pitcher in a weak draft class, so why would they think he'd do better in a deeper pool? Imagine that next year's draft class has three pitchers of the same ability as Gausman, Zimmer and uninjured Giolito. Wouldn't you take one of the younger guys who had less mileage on his arm? His age is going to be a reason to pass on him next year. This holdout isn't about what's best for Mark Appel.

IdahoPilgrim
07-12-2012, 06:57 PM
The problem with this CBA is that they should let teams that were below .500 spend a little extra on draft/international without penalty... that's just me at least. That said, this situation is pretty interesting. Appel may be upset, but there really isn't much he can do about it. He's taking a huge risk by not signing. Here's the thing. If they guy was Bryce Harper or Steven Strasburg, I have no doubt in my mind that teams would be willing to potentially forfeit a pick next year to sign him overslot. But he's not one of those guys. He's likely to be a good MLB pitcher, but I doubt he's playing in Pittsburg come September. The Pirates would be wise to play hardball with him.

The teams that do poorly the previous season do get to spend more - the Twins had the highest pool available this year ($12M) because of their poor record in 2011 and the number of compensatory picks they had. The New York Yankees had a total of ~$4M, and the Los Angeles Angels only had $1.6M.

In future years, the same will also be true for international signings - the size of the pool available will vary depending on record. This first year, to start things off, they just made everybody even.

diehardtwinsfan
07-13-2012, 12:27 PM
The teams that do poorly the previous season do get to spend more - the Twins had the highest pool available this year ($12M) because of their poor record in 2011 and the number of compensatory picks they had. The New York Yankees had a total of ~$4M, and the Los Angeles Angels only had $1.6M.

In future years, the same will also be true for international signings - the size of the pool available will vary depending on record. This first year, to start things off, they just made everybody even.

They had the highest pool because they had the most picks. They weren't given extra money to go out and sign a few guys overslot... If they were, they'd like have picked up a couple of the later round higher ceiling guys they drafted. That's my point. I'd think that teams that finish under certain record shoudl automaticaly get an extra couple of mil to the draft bonus pool and an extra mil for international free agents... small market teams like TB should get a boost too.

IdahoPilgrim
07-13-2012, 12:39 PM
They had the highest pool because they had the most picks. They weren't given extra money to go out and sign a few guys overslot... If they were, they'd like have picked up a couple of the later round higher ceiling guys they drafted. That's my point. I'd think that teams that finish under certain record shoudl automaticaly get an extra couple of mil to the draft bonus pool and an extra mil for international free agents... small market teams like TB should get a boost too.

Their pool was highest also because each round they picked second - based entirely on their record. And as I said, in future years international signing pools will also be based on record. Another part of the new CBA does also provide for small market and low revenue teams to get additional draft picks (and hence additional pool money).

Everything you asked for is either in place or is being added to the system already.

gunnarthor
07-13-2012, 06:54 PM
Well, Pirates didn't sign Appel. Generally, I think it's good news for the Twins since it'll add a little more depth to next years draft - presuming he doesn't get hurt, of course.

glunn
07-13-2012, 06:56 PM
Well, Pirates didn't sign Appel. Generally, I think it's good news for the Twins since it'll add a little more depth to next years draft - presuming he doesn't get hurt, of course.

Agreed, and it's also nice to see Boras crash and burn. And maybe the Twins can draft Appel next year, if they can continue to lose enough to have another high pick.

gunnarthor
07-13-2012, 07:09 PM
Agreed, and it's also nice to see Boras crash and burn. And maybe the Twins can draft Appel next year, if they can continue to lose enough to have another high pick.

"Crash and burn" isn't determined yet. It doesn't look good but, as I mentioned before, he could go higher, get more money and still make millions in his free agent contract - he's pretty young. And, since he's a pitcher, it might make more sense to get as much money now as opposed to waiting for some big free agent date down the road.

Thrylos
07-13-2012, 07:48 PM
Agreed, and it's also nice to see Boras crash and burn. And maybe the Twins can draft Appel next year, if they can continue to lose enough to have another high pick.

Why would the Twins draft him next year with another season of overwork in college if they passed on him this year?

kab21
07-14-2012, 02:45 AM
Why would the Twins draft him next year with another season of overwork in college if they passed on him this year?

It depends on where the Twins are picking and who is available. This year they had a choice between Buxton and Appel. I think they made the right choice. Next year the choice at #6 (or wherever they pick) might not be as good as Appel.

kab21
07-14-2012, 02:52 AM
Their pool was highest also because each round they picked second - based entirely on their record. And as I said, in future years international signing pools will also be based on record. Another part of the new CBA does also provide for small market and low revenue teams to get additional draft picks (and hence additional pool money).

Everything you asked for is either in place or is being added to the system already.

I completely agree and I haven't really understood the complaining about the new CBA. In previous years the Yankees/RedSox/tigers made a killing in the draft taking overslot guys even though they didn't have the best picks. It wasn't until 3-4 years ago that some of the small market teams started doing the same. Now the draft proportionately rewards the worst teams since they get the highest picks (and extra small market picks) and nobody can buy an extra first rd'er later in the draft. It sucks that the Pirates got screwed by Appel but that was the risk when they picked him. they knew he was dropping because of signability.

biggentleben
07-14-2012, 04:01 PM
"Crash and burn" isn't determined yet. It doesn't look good but, as I mentioned before, he could go higher, get more money and still make millions in his free agent contract - he's pretty young. And, since he's a pitcher, it might make more sense to get as much money now as opposed to waiting for some big free agent date down the road.

Opposite view - since he's a pitcher, it made a lot of sense to take the money now rather than gamble on an injury free 2013 season that could cost him millions and possibly ever playing pro ball.

IdahoPilgrim
07-14-2012, 06:41 PM
I hope he gets drafted next year, and again refuses to sign, and gets drafted the year after that, and again refuses to sign, and gets drafted the year after that...etc...

This was the year he had the most leverage - he will regret this decision.

Badsmerf
07-14-2012, 06:41 PM
I don't get it. Give the Pirates some credit, they didn't let a big time agent push them into overpaying. I don't want anything to do with Appel next year, and I hope he falls even further.

USAFChief
07-16-2012, 11:32 PM
I don't get it. Give the Pirates some credit, they didn't let a big time agent push them into overpaying. I don't want anything to do with Appel next year, and I hope he falls even further.

I hope he blows out his arm, never signs a pro contract, and files a nasty lawsuit against Boras.

Future draft picks will be warned by their "advisors" that not signing carries the risk of being "appel'd".

gunnarthor
07-17-2012, 06:21 AM
I hope he blows out his arm, never signs a pro contract, and files a nasty lawsuit against Boras.

Future draft picks will be warned by their "advisors" that not signing carries the risk of being "appel'd".

Yeah, you've mentioned that you hope he blows his arm out several times already. I assume you're making this wish based on your own high standards of moral conduct.

DPJ
07-17-2012, 01:45 PM
I hope he blows out his arm, never signs a pro contract, and files a nasty lawsuit against Boras.

Future draft picks will be warned by their "advisors" that not signing carries the risk of being "appel'd".

Sweet ****ing Christ man, calm down.

Did Boras and Appel kill your dog?

USAFChief
07-17-2012, 03:20 PM
Yeah, you've mentioned that you hope he blows his arm out several times already. I assume you're making this wish based on your own high standards of moral conduct.

Im making this wish based on my belief greed is bad, Boras is a jackass, and MLB will be better when the Yankees can't use their financial might as a weapon of mass destruction.

If nearly $4m isn't enough for Appel, I hope he learns an expensive lesson, and others take note. F him.

DPJ
07-17-2012, 03:29 PM
Im making this wish based on my belief greed is bad, Boras is a jackass, and MLB will be better when the Yankees can't use their financial might as a weapon of mass destruction.

If nearly $4m isn't enough for Appel, I hope he learns an expensive lesson, and others take note. F him.

So a person maximizing his talents for compensation is greed?

We do it everday on a smaller scale but an athlete does it and you wish his career to end. My god man...

diehardtwinsfan
07-17-2012, 05:50 PM
I think greed gives way to stupidity here... that's just me. How much more will he make next year, and how much is it worth in terms of free agency one year sooner... and what's hte risk should he need Tommy John or something like that.

Pius Jefferson
07-17-2012, 11:20 PM
These guys coming into the league should realize Boras is the agent you hire after you dump the one you were with when you signed a pro contract.

Fatt Crapps
07-18-2012, 02:19 AM
Yeah, you've mentioned that you hope he blows his arm out several times already. I assume you're making this wish based on your own high standards of moral conduct.

Appel is gambling. While I don't wish harm on anybody, if he does get hurt next year I won't feel sorry for him...hell, I'll even chuckle.

Gernzy
07-18-2012, 08:21 AM
Appel is stupid for not signing. Boras and the other d-bag agents have jacking up salarys for years and they get it into these young players minds that they will make a ton of money. Boras probably had him convinced he'd be a top 3 pick and when it didn't happen, he gets upset. Really? 3.8 million isn't enough? And thats a signing bonus! Plus the Pirates would be a great team to get drafted by because they are on the upswing.

I really hope this desicion bites Appel in the ass and makes other players think twice about signing these greedy agents.