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jokin
07-04-2012, 05:06 PM
Sorry if this was posted elsewhere. Given the prospect that DFAd Brian Fuentes might become available at virtually no cost, what would be the downside in signing him if he were to fall into the Twins laps?

drjim
07-04-2012, 05:14 PM
Sorry if this was posted elsewhere. Given the prospect that DFAd Brian Fuentes might become available at virtually no cost, what would be the downside in signing him if he were to fall into the Twins laps?

A roster spot?

Jeremy Nygaard
07-04-2012, 05:15 PM
If he clears waivers and is available for the minimum, I'd guess he'd prefer to sign with a contender.

If he's claimed on waivers, he'll cost about $3 minimum ($2.5m for the rest of the year; $.5m buyout for next year).

It will be interesting to see if the A's can find a trade partner.


I kind of doubt the Twins would put in a claim for him, but it might be worth taking a shot, seeing if he can turn it around and sell him at the end of August.

jokin
07-04-2012, 05:16 PM
A roster spot?

You mean, Casey Fien's spot? Jeff Gray's spot?

IdahoPilgrim
07-04-2012, 05:17 PM
What do we need him for?

jokin
07-04-2012, 10:42 PM
What do we need him for?

Casey Fien....Jeff Gray.....Kyle Waldrop......Cole DeVries....Pick up a proven veteran on the cheap. Chance to stabilize the staff some more with a former Twin, to boot....Possible trade chip or sweetener somewhere down the road.....Emergency pitching management if/when Duensing goes down, as we effectively are looking at a de facto switch to a full-time bullpen mode pitching staff, sans Jeff Diamond...Need I go on?

greengoblinrulz
07-04-2012, 10:57 PM
exactly.....wouldnt mind it. But if we're gonna go 3deep in lefties out of the pen, Id probably want to take a look at Caleb Thielbar first

jokin
07-04-2012, 11:03 PM
exactly.....wouldnt mind it. But if we're gonna go 3deep in lefties out of the pen, Id probably want to take a look at Caleb Thielbar first

I like the thought of Thielbar getting a shot, too. The way this season is going, he might be the last man standing for a possible SP spot duty role. Still, Fuentes offers little downside with a boatload of experience to help stabilize this pitching staff and a nice potential trading chip if he returns closer to career norms (he pitched at or above those earlier this season at Oakland).

jokin
07-04-2012, 11:06 PM
I would like to add, that the Rochester SP lineup is going to look quite impressive this July. Besides, Hendriks and Blackburn, add Pavano and now, probably Duensing for likely upcoming multiple rehab assignments

spideyo
07-04-2012, 11:48 PM
With Duensing essentially a starter (if he recovers from the ankle) and Perkins essentially the closer, the only lefty we really have to rely on in the bullpen is Robertson, and it is way too early to predict his long-term success. If they think they can move Capps or he won't be coming back from injury, and they plan to have Duensing stay in the rotation the rest of the year, I'd say go for it. He did pitch fantastic in the 9 games he was with us before. Claiming him won't really put a significant dent in their payroll for next year, and it might give them some more flexibility to deal with our rapidly depleting pitching staff. Heck, if he pitched at his career averages, and the rest of our BP pitches like they've been doing most of the year, we could probably try that 4 man rotation thing, and just yank everyone but Diamond out after 5 innings.

greengoblinrulz
07-04-2012, 11:52 PM
ROC also has PJ Walters right now also

jokin
07-04-2012, 11:52 PM
With Duensing essentially a starter (if he recovers from the ankle) and Perkins essentially the closer, the only lefty we really have to rely on in the bullpen is Robertson, and it is way too early to predict his long-term success. If they think they can move Capps or he won't be coming back from injury, and they plan to have Duensing stay in the rotation the rest of the year, I'd say go for it. He did pitch fantastic in the 9 games he was with us before. Claiming him won't really put a significant dent in their payroll for next year, and it might give them some more flexibility to deal with our rapidly depleting pitching staff. Heck, if he pitched at his career averages, and the rest of our BP pitches like they've been doing most of the year, we could probably try that 4 man rotation thing, and just yank everyone but Diamond out after 5 innings.

Absolutely spot on.

4 man rotation is basically a fait accompli, yanking everyone but Diamond out is already pretty much happening, why not just make it "the plan"? I wonder if someone can do the research. I would guess that the pitching discrepancy gap between the starters and bullpen performance numbers might be near the worst of any team all-time.

jokin
07-04-2012, 11:55 PM
ROC also has PJ Walters right now also

Good point. I know Walters is probably around ML minimum, but, are we looking at a record-setting 5 man SP AAA (temporary) payroll if this comes to fruition in July?

greengoblinrulz
07-05-2012, 12:01 AM
Good point. I know Walters is probably around ML minimum, but, are we looking at a record-setting 5 man SP AAA (temporary) payroll if this comes to fruition in July?
Hendriks, DeVries & Walters all get the prorated minor league portion for pay....bout 15K/month (75K)....Pavano, Duensing (if on rehab) & Blacky get their full paycheck

spideyo
07-05-2012, 12:08 AM
Does Blacky still get his full paycheck even though he was optioned down?

jokin
07-05-2012, 12:17 AM
Hendriks, DeVries & Walters all get the prorated minor league portion for pay....bout 15K/month (75K)....Pavano, Duensing (if on rehab) & Blacky get their full paycheck

In the case of the first 3, is that a function of their limited MLB service time?

SpiritofVodkaDave
07-05-2012, 01:27 AM
Does Blacky still get his full paycheck even though he was optioned down?

Every penny.

Jeremy Nygaard
07-05-2012, 06:55 AM
In the case of the first 3, is that a function of their limited MLB service time?

I think whenever guys have contracts renewed (all pre-arbitration years), they are split contracts. So, yeah... its based on their lack of service time.

MWLFan
07-05-2012, 07:48 AM
Only if he can start the first inning and make it to the 5th without giving up 4 to 6 runs or get injured in some freak way and need to be pulled.

To recap-Bullpen: good- Starters: historically awful.

His prescence as cannon fodder would help once the bullpen is burnt out from having to come in every 3rd night or so in the fourth inning, but there are cheaper alternatives. Besides, he can see the writing on the wall here and knows that in August and September this Pen could be in tatters due to overuse. Why come here unless they can get someone besides Diamond to give them consistent innings?

IdahoPilgrim
07-05-2012, 08:25 AM
Casey Fien....Jeff Gray.....Kyle Waldrop......Cole DeVries....Pick up a proven veteran on the cheap. Chance to stabilize the staff some more with a former Twin, to boot....Possible trade chip or sweetener somewhere down the road.....Emergency pitching management if/when Duensing goes down, as we effectively are looking at a de facto switch to a full-time bullpen mode pitching staff, sans Jeff Diamond...Need I go on?

But what makes us think he would be any better than those? Have you seen his numbers this year? Awful. 6.84 ERA, 1.600 WHIP, .291 average against - just looks to me like he's out of gas.

mike wants wins
07-05-2012, 08:53 AM
He's old, and this team* stinks. It's time to give young players a chance, and see what happens. What is the upside of signing him?

edited to change time to team....

spideyo
07-05-2012, 12:02 PM
But what makes us think he would be any better than those? Have you seen his numbers this year? Awful. 6.84 ERA, 1.600 WHIP, .291 average against - just looks to me like he's out of gas.

Yeah, but he hasn't actually pitched that much. He lost his job as a closer so he wasn't getting save opportunities, and they've had four lefties in the pen since April, so he wasn't getting many shots as a LOOGY.

A few good innings and those numbers would start to drop considerably.

ashburyjohn
07-05-2012, 01:12 PM
A few good innings and those numbers would start to drop considerably.

A few good innings and he wouldn't be in this predicament.

jokin
07-05-2012, 01:46 PM
But what makes us think he would be any better than those? Have you seen his numbers this year? Awful. 6.84 ERA, 1.600 WHIP, .291 average against - just looks to me like he's out of gas.

He's 36, so he very well might be running out of gas, but his big league career as a whole strongly suggest at least for the near-term would definitely be better than the others. The fact is though, his numbers before 6 of his last 7 games (all but one in June) were excellent, with only one bad performance in 19 from March to the end of May. Effective lefties are rare commodities, it's certainly worth exploring a potentially low-cost/low-risk option, the evidence suggests he may only be going through a short-term bump in the road. If it does or doesn't work out, he's easily removed from the roster with little lost and quite possibly, something gained. Also, it never hurts to have another veteran out there to help mentor the young arms.

drjim
07-05-2012, 04:30 PM
Another problem with this thinking is that if Fuentes clears waivers (which I assume he already has) then he will be free to sign with any team. Do you really think he would choose a team going nowhere this season like the Twins when other teams might have interest.

Building on that, the second half of this season is perfect time to find out what Robertson, Waldrop and Guerra, as well as Guiterrez, Slama, Oliveros (when they are healthy) have and if they are able to contribute next year. Fuentes would just get in the way.

snepp
07-05-2012, 04:35 PM
The team isn't going anywhere this year, give those innings to someone with a (possible) future here.