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View Full Version : Article: Mauer Elected and "Fans" Revolt



Cody Christie
07-02-2012, 09:09 AM
You can view the page at http://www.twinsdaily.com/content.php?751-Mauer-elected-and-fans-revolt

ltwedt
07-02-2012, 09:49 AM
Agreed - Booing Mauer is ridiculous - for the most part, it shows just how much these "fans" really know about their team, and its' individual players. But I really do think that a part of their frustration with Joe, is the perception that he doesn't get the hits when they really need them - with RISP, he grounds to second - with no one on and two out - he doubles to left. This may have happened only a handful of times, but when the game is "on the line" and their golden boy comes to the plate, the expectations for Mauer are far and above the expectations for anyone else on the team. Now I know, the argument that is usually put forth is that no one else makes the salary that Mauer makes, so the expectations should be higher for him than any of the others. Mauer's current stats - OBP = .404; SLG = .445; OPS = .859 - I mean, these stats do not lie! Thing is - he's not a HR guy - probably never will be, but he is one of the best!

Adam Krueger
07-02-2012, 09:50 AM
I can't believe how many people want to sit there and rip on Mauer, he's produced this year and has played in as many games as any other player on the roster. I agree with those who think that Willingham got snubbed, but at the end of the day, that's more a result of him being on a bad team than it is a rejection of what he's done as a Twin. Lay off Mauer people, he's been worth every penny of his $23M this year.

PopRiveter
07-02-2012, 10:10 AM
We got 99 problems but Joe ain't one.

jm3319
07-02-2012, 10:36 AM
absolutely love this post. Glad some fans actually get it. I feel like the ones that are complaining are the ones that only paid attention to the headlines last year and have been too lazy to actually watch some games this year or look up the stat leaders for this year. either that, or they are just flat out stupid.

nokomismod
07-02-2012, 10:48 AM
I agree 100%. I was listening to a certain local "sports" radio show this morning, and they were adding fuel to the fire. There are a lot folks here who can't seem to get that HR's are not everything. Willingham has been a nice addition, but Mauer is the clear choice.

twinstalker
07-02-2012, 10:49 AM
You've got people who need a reason to feel like they're more important because they don't like themselves very much (similar to racism). And then you've got sheep.

greengoblinrulz
07-02-2012, 11:09 AM
Uproar...dont think so. Think AJ deserves it over Mauer & Willingham over Adam Dunn, thats fine....but not an uproar

Crotalo
07-02-2012, 11:37 AM
I can't believe how many people want to sit there and rip on Mauer, he's produced this year and has played in as many games as any other player on the roster. I agree with those who think that Willingham got snubbed, but at the end of the day, that's more a result of him being on a bad team than it is a rejection of what he's done as a Twin. Lay off Mauer people, he's been worth every penny of his $23M this year.

He's been very good this year and deserved the AS nod over Willy, but he hasn't been anywhere close to being worth every penny of $23M. Even if he was a full time catcher, his numbers are probably worth in the $18M range...and he's not a full time catcher.

Highabove
07-02-2012, 11:40 AM
The fans on Social Media make up a VERY SMALL Percentage of the the Twins Fan base. They do not speak for the majority of Twins Fans.

Boom Boom
07-02-2012, 11:43 AM
Dave St. Peter should know better than to engage Twins fans on Twitter like that.

YLT
07-02-2012, 11:53 AM
I'm getting really tired of the money argument for Mauer. It's just an easy out for the booers. When a guy of that caliber comes along you almost never get the value of the long term deal that you put into it. Though, if you don't put that kind of money on the table he's likely to walk and there's no way a guy like Mauer takes on a series of 2 year contracts with the Twins for a career. Only a small percentage of $100 million plus contracts end up actually being "worth" it - particularly in the final years of those contracts. This is why I think long-term deals are not very smart from the standpoint of the front office, no matter what the caliber of player. The Twins did what they did - the money's spent. Just enjoy watching one of the better catchers in the game for the next few years and boo the starting pitching as a whole instead - that's a far more troublesome area for the Twins at this point.

greengoblinrulz
07-02-2012, 11:57 AM
As a Mauer fan....ive come to realize he wont hit 28HRs again but i want more doubles.
In 2009, many claim his HRs came from left field in Dome & that was true of many of his 16 dome homers. This isnt happening at Target Field & is the common HR excuse.
He also hit 12 road homers......what happenned to that power?
23m isnt the reason i get upset with him ..... its the ISO power numbers....mix in a double

Steve Penz
07-02-2012, 12:02 PM
He is not worth 23 million. Nobody is. Look at the contracts around the league. Fielder? Puljols? A-Rod? Granted, those are only the ones that are struggling but even for those players who are not, they are not worth it. Let that go; it’s a necessary evil. He fills the stadium and his name sells tons of stuff. That is business but let’s just talk stats.

He has played half the games at Catcher and has only missed a handful of starts in total. As the others calm down and he quietly moves along, he will overtake the #1 spot in batting average. His OBP is the best in the AL. His OPS is slowly creeping up towards 900. He batted nearly .400 in June. With runners in scoring position his avg is approx. .350. Nevermind that he sees 4.3 pitches per PA. If a pitcher tops out at 100 pitches, Mauer will see between 17.5 and 21.5 of those pitches. That is huge. He wore Chapman down to a nub which allowed Willingham to feast.

I miss his homeruns. I would be lying if I did not admit that but we need to appreciate what he brings. Mauer is awesome and we are very fortunate that he is on our team.

jm3319
07-02-2012, 12:18 PM
As a Mauer fan....ive come to realize he wont hit 28HRs again but i want more doubles.
In 2009, many claim his HRs came from left field in Dome & that was true of many of his 16 dome homers. This isnt happening at Target Field & is the common HR excuse.
He also hit 12 road homers......what happenned to that power?
23m isnt the reason i get upset with him ..... its the ISO power numbers....mix in a double


Mix in a double? He's on pace for 35 doubles this year which would be his second highest (career high of 42). He's not only hitting singles here. Not that far below his career SLG or OPS either, even counting his MVP year.

SpiritofVodkaDave
07-02-2012, 12:22 PM
How to tell if you are a true baseball fan:

Do you:
A. Boo Mauer
B. Don't Boo Mauer.

If you answered B congrats, you are a real baseball fan.

If you answered A, then I plead that you consider never breeding.

SwainZag
07-02-2012, 12:33 PM
He is not worth 23 million. Nobody is. Look at the contracts around the league. Fielder? Puljols? A-Rod? Granted, those are only the ones that are struggling but even for those players who are not, they are not worth it. Let that go; itís a necessary evil. He fills the stadium and his name sells tons of stuff. That is business but letís just talk stats.

He has played half the games at Catcher and has only missed a handful of starts in total. As the others calm down and he quietly moves along, he will overtake the #1 spot in batting average. His OBP is the best in the AL. His OPS is slowly creeping up towards 900. He batted nearly .400 in June. With runners in scoring position his avg is approx. .350. Nevermind that he sees 4.3 pitches per PA. If a pitcher tops out at 100 pitches, Mauer will see between 17.5 and 21.5 of those pitches. That is huge. He wore Chapman down to a nub which allowed Willingham to feast.

I miss his homeruns. I would be lying if I did not admit that but we need to appreciate what he brings. Mauer is awesome and we are very fortunate that he is on our team.


Great post. The entire thing. Wish more people would just sit back and appreciate how special of a player Mauer is and feel fortunate he is on the team instead of judging him under a microscope for the contract he has.

jessellsworth
07-02-2012, 12:36 PM
He's been very good this year and deserved the AS nod over Willy, but he hasn't been anywhere close to being worth every penny of $23M. Even if he was a full time catcher, his numbers are probably worth in the $18M range...and he's not a full time catcher.


No athlete is worth 23 million a year. Period

SpiritofVodkaDave
07-02-2012, 12:39 PM
No athlete is worth 23 million a year. Period

Just like no CEO is worth 200 million, Zuckerberg isn't worth 2 billion or whatever etc etc etc, this type of thing could go on all day. Mauer got paid a fair market wage, end of story.

It's a completely separate argument and has little to nothing to do with how Mauer preforms.

Paul
07-02-2012, 12:43 PM
"He is not worth 23 million."


To me, this statement statement is the epitome of the Maurer non-love. At best this statement is completely subjective and ignores the marketplace reality.

I happen to think Ferraris are not worth 280 grand.
And Harleys are not worth 25K.
And softball bats are not worth $350.
And $180 is too much for a baseball bat for my 11 yr old grandson.
And gas is not worth $3.30.
But in the end I buy some of this stuff. Begrudgingly, but with an understanding of the market reality.

jessellsworth
07-02-2012, 12:46 PM
I'm so tired of people hating on Mauer. After last season everyone complained about the number of games played and his low production in those games - well deserved. But this year he's played in nearly all of them, he's #1 in OBP, and 5th in hitting. He's been great this year! But now people are complaining he shouldn't be an All-Star?! Are you crazy!? Mauer is never going to have a high homer total - his 28 performance a few years ago was an outlier. He's been really good this year, just as good as he was in 2010 when the Twins won 90 games - don't blame him for Bill Smith's terrible decision making that resulted in a Triple A pitching staff, trading Hardy away for a slice of PB & J sandwich. Here is what Keith Law said today in his Insider article "I would have taken Joe Mauer (http://espn.go.com/mlb/player/_/id/5378/joe-mauer) over Mike Napoli (http://espn.go.com/mlb/player/_/id/28444/mike-napoli) to start behind the plate."

This team isn't winning - people are frustrated. I get that. But be fans - support your team and our players. Joe is playing hard and playing well. I was all for the questioning last year but this isn't the Mauer of last year.

kemics
07-02-2012, 12:50 PM
I agree with SRP, Mauer's 4.3 pitches per appearance and his ability to work counts helps Willingham and the guys after him. Joe's eye is so good, he knows he can take the first pitch as a strike and still work a favorable or at least even count for him. This wears the pitcher down, it allows the batters behind him see what a guy has, it makes the bullpen work sooner. 17-21 pitches a is what a typical reliever might throw, having them used/gassed earlier is a huge advantage.

As the season wears on catching Joe only 1/2 the games will improve his numbers. At .324/.414/.445 now I can almost guarantee those numbers go up. .332/.420/.460 is where he should end the year if healthy. 10 homers is not out of reach, neither are 75-90RBIs and 75-90Runs scored if you look at full season projections for 150 games. You're also looking at 80-90 walks. As for the RISP...

.319 with runners on.
.358 with RISP
.333 with bases loaded
.409 w/ RISP and 2 outs.
Also he sets the table nicely, hitting .468 when leading off an inning with a .561 OBP.

He's the best non-power hitter in the league, the best hitting catcher, one of the best defensive catchers, the face of a franchise, a commercial icon, and the biggest fan draw since Kirby (RIP). He deserves every penny of his $23 million, and an allstar role.

Thanks to ESPN for the stats.

fetch
07-02-2012, 01:15 PM
I agree with SRP, Mauer's 4.3 pitches per appearance and his ability to work counts helps Willingham and the guys after him. Joe's eye is so good, he knows he can take the first pitch as a strike and still work a favorable or at least even count for him. This wears the pitcher down, it allows the batters behind him see what a guy has, it makes the bullpen work sooner. 17-21 pitches a is what a typical reliever might throw, having them used/gassed earlier is a huge advantage.

As the season wears on catching Joe only 1/2 the games will improve his numbers. At .324/.414/.445 now I can almost guarantee those numbers go up. .332/.420/.460 is where he should end the year if healthy. 10 homers is not out of reach, neither are 75-90RBIs and 75-90Runs scored if you look at full season projections for 150 games. You're also looking at 80-90 walks. As for the RISP...

.319 with runners on.
.358 with RISP
.333 with bases loaded
.409 w/ RISP and 2 outs.
Also he sets the table nicely, hitting .468 when leading off an inning with a .561 OBP.

He's the best non-power hitter in the league, the best hitting catcher, one of the best defensive catchers, the face of a franchise, a commercial icon, and the biggest fan draw since Kirby (RIP). He deserves every penny of his $23 million, and an allstar role.

Thanks to ESPN for the stats.

let's just frame this post and say argument over. Well done.

Brock Beauchamp
07-02-2012, 01:39 PM
I agree with SRP, Mauer's 4.3 pitches per appearance and his ability to work counts helps Willingham and the guys after him. Joe's eye is so good, he knows he can take the first pitch as a strike and still work a favorable or at least even count for him. This wears the pitcher down, it allows the batters behind him see what a guy has, it makes the bullpen work sooner. 17-21 pitches a is what a typical reliever might throw, having them used/gassed earlier is a huge advantage.

Let's not overlook Denard's role in this as well. By the time the opposing pitcher gets through Mauer in the first, he's generally thrown every pitch he has two or three times. Span and Mauer make pitchers work.

CDog
07-02-2012, 02:22 PM
At .324/.414/.445 now I can almost guarantee those numbers go up.

I'm obviously quite pro-Kid St. Paul. I am on record that thinking people often go way, way too far in trying to knock him down for whatever reasons I can't even fathom (as stated in another thread). But I think "almost guarantee" is a little (or a lot) strong there. Especially with the noted (also elsewhere in many places) frequency of ground balls this year. I feel like it's gotten better in just the very recent past, but haven't looked to see if that's true.

wavedog
07-02-2012, 03:27 PM
Certainly you can't be angry that Mauer was named to the All-star game - he is one of the best catchers in the league - if not the best and I am talking both this half-year and over his career timeframe. Some of the frustration from fans probably comes from the fact that the perception is that he has not performed as well after he signed the $23M contract as he did before he signed it. I say perception because I have not broken down the numbers before and after. We know the HR's are down and the whole bi-lateral leg weakness episode last year had a negative impact on his image.

Sanibelchuck
07-02-2012, 03:33 PM
The game is an "All-Star" game. One can see clearly that the large markets have a bigger say on who makes the team. I know when I went to the All-Star game in Atlanta years ago, I wanted to see the big names or the face of the organization not necessarilly who is having a good season. Does the manager of an All-Star team pick Chipper Jones or Bryce Harper? For many fans at an All-Star game this may be there only chance to see a future Hall of Fame player like Chipper Jones. If a young kid travels 200 miles for his first Twins baseball game, which player would he be very disappointed not seeing play, Willingham or Mauer?

70charger
07-02-2012, 04:56 PM
We got 99 problems but Joe ain't one.

This.

mnfireman
07-02-2012, 05:13 PM
I bet these same guys that hate on Mauer would hate on Carew for the same reasons, no power. Imagine if Boggs and Gwynn had played for the Twins, alot more complaints that they don't hit for power. Let's appreciate what we have here, a future HOFer and one of the best pure hitters of this or any era.

Twins best friend
07-02-2012, 05:54 PM
I blogged about all this hate for Mauer a little while ago myself. His current stats are right smack in line with 2009 which wasn't too shabby a season for him in itself and his doubles are actually up since then. I have no expectations for the 2010 Mauer to reappear but at the same time I have no regrets in the Twins retaining the current Mauer.

twinzgrl
07-02-2012, 07:10 PM
Mauer didn't pick himself to be an All-Star, so I don't get the haters at all. It would have been nice for Willingham as he hasn't been to an All-Star game, but how can people take that out on Joe.... I just don't understand. Mauer is having an outstanding season. Get off his case!

DJSim22
07-02-2012, 07:18 PM
Most people ripping Mauer are devoted to a certain 3-6:30 radio show...

Riverbrian
07-02-2012, 08:31 PM
Makes no sense to me. I wonder if the they are prepared to boo and hate until 2018. That sounds exhausting to me.

PeanutsFromHeaven
07-03-2012, 08:20 AM
I do love it when (exhausted from Twit Tweets) I can see so many logical, reasonable and impassioned arguments. Nothing to add but bravo Paul, SRP, kemics, Twinsgrl, and Riverbrian...thanks for the rational discourse.

jmlease1
07-03-2012, 09:04 AM
Part of the problem Mauer has is he's not particularly media-friendly (he doesn't say much, speaks in cliches, and would generally rather just go about his business and be left alone), which opens the door for some twits in the local sports media to a) clock him regularly for perceived flaws in his production, or b) encourage fans to do the same. (Dan Barreiro, please pick up the white courtesy phone...Dan Barreiro, to the white phone)

Coming off a terrible, injury-plagued season where the entire team collapsed, Joe became an easy target of blame for the lazy and uninformed, and so that's why you see crap like this. Mauer's the best catcher in the AL right now, even though he's only played half his games there.

Mauer is an all-star. Willingham is having a very nice year, but the competition at OF is a lot tougher. Plouffe's surge probably came a little bit too late, and his start was so awful that you can't object too much to leaving him out.