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View Full Version : Morneau for Gould?



Riverbrian
07-01-2012, 10:34 AM
Would you trade Morneau for Garrett Gould?

Seth Stohs
07-01-2012, 10:51 AM
Sure, but only if the Dodgers at all of Morneau's salary.

Brock Beauchamp
07-01-2012, 10:55 AM
Yeah, that's an interesting idea but for me to pull the trigger on that, I'd want the Dodgers to pick up part of Morneau's contract (not all, just some) so that the team could go out and find more short-term pitching solutions than Gould.

Gould is far from a sure thing. He's scuffling a bit as a 20 year old at high A. I'd want some insurance against him falling on his face.

SpiritofVodkaDave
07-01-2012, 12:30 PM
I'd rather trade Santana for Kemp+Kershaw+Billingsley+Loney.

Dilligaf69
07-01-2012, 01:45 PM
Not sure if a Morneau trade will happen this yr..just not a market for him with injury and salary. Next trade dealine or maybe even this summer if he stays healthy and finishes strong but Twins will have to eat some salary to get it done and that's reasonable. Parmalee has to be a full time 1B by some point next season IMO.

Jeremy Nygaard
07-01-2012, 02:05 PM
You'll be able to discuss Gould (and more) in a few hours when the next "Trade Target Team Profile" is posted...

kab21
07-01-2012, 09:40 PM
Yeah, that's an interesting idea but for me to pull the trigger on that, I'd want the Dodgers to pick up part of Morneau's contract (not all, just some) so that the team could go out and find more short-term pitching solutions than Gould.

Gould is far from a sure thing. He's scuffling a bit as a 20 year old at high A. I'd want some insurance against him falling on his face.

Gould has a 23% K rate and 7% BB rate in the Cal league. His ERA might be high but the Cal league makes the PCL look pitcher friendly.

I would make this trade if the Dodgers/Twins split the salary owed.

He might be a bust but developing pitching is about having quantity vs quality. Note that the quantity has to be talented with some projection.

Cody Christie
07-01-2012, 09:46 PM
With the Carlos Lee deal falling through the cracks, I like the sound of this deal. It would also be nice to free up some playing time for Parmelee so he isn't just sitting on the bench.

Crotalo
07-01-2012, 11:07 PM
I would give Morneau away if the team was willing to take his salary. Remember, that the $14M that he's making can be used on someone who can actually still excel in the bigs.

glunn
07-01-2012, 11:08 PM
This is a tough one. Morneau has MVP potential, but is not having a good year. Gould has some upside bit may never pan out.

Is Morneau more valuable than Carlos Lee? It seems to me that Morneau has a lot more upside and maybe more downside (due to his vulnerability to concussions). I would certainly want the Twins to see if they could do better than just Gould.

Riverbrian
07-01-2012, 11:43 PM
This is a tough one. Morneau has MVP potential, but is not having a good year. Gould has some upside bit may never pan out.

Is Morneau more valuable than Carlos Lee? It seems to me that Morneau has a lot more upside and maybe more downside (due to his vulnerability to concussions). I would certainly want the Twins to see if they could do better than just Gould.

I posted the question cuz I really don't know how I'd feel. I talk all tough about moving anyone for pitching. Then you look a deal in the face like Carlos Lee for Gould and you think to yourself is that comparable value for Justin Morneau.

And then you wonder... How would you feel if that was the trade piece we get back for Morneau. Then I think... My god... I'm a big wussy... Self doubting Monday morning armchair quarterback who's nervous all of a sudden on Friday.

There(exhale)... My soul is bared.

nicksaviking
07-01-2012, 11:58 PM
I would give Morneau away if the team was willing to take his salary. Remember, that the $14M that he's making can be used on someone who can actually still excel in the bigs.

The Twins have not shown that losing high-priced veterans means more money to spend on free agents. The year after the Twins lost Hunter and Santana their payroll dropped $14 million. After losing Cuddyer, Kubel and Nathan last year the Twins payroll dropped $13 million DESPITE signing Josh Willingham for $7 million a year. Also, the person you'd be expecting to "excell" would be Chris Parmelee who has shown no proof of being able to do so. If the Twins can get prospects back for Morneau I'm totally listening, but I could give a dog fart about the $14 million coming off the books because I don't believe for a second the team would put that savings back into the payroll.

DPJ
07-02-2012, 07:23 AM
Yes yes yes...and I don't even like Gould that much.

Brock Beauchamp
07-02-2012, 07:38 AM
Gould has a 23% K rate and 7% BB rate in the Cal league. His ERA might be high but the Cal league makes the PCL look pitcher friendly.

I would make this trade if the Dodgers/Twins split the salary owed.

He might be a bust but developing pitching is about having quantity vs quality. Note that the quantity has to be talented with some projection.

Oh, I'm pretty high on Gould. I was simply pointing out that he has scuffled just a bit (but, as you pointed out, his peripherals are still solid). I wouldn't be too concerned about the scuffling, just pointing it out.

Crotalo
07-02-2012, 09:32 AM
The Twins have not shown that losing high-priced veterans means more money to spend on free agents. The year after the Twins lost Hunter and Santana their payroll dropped $14 million. After losing Cuddyer, Kubel and Nathan last year the Twins payroll dropped $13 million DESPITE signing Josh Willingham for $7 million a year. Also, the person you'd be expecting to "excell" would be Chris Parmelee who has shown no proof of being able to do so. If the Twins can get prospects back for Morneau I'm totally listening, but I could give a dog fart about the $14 million coming off the books because I don't believe for a second the team would put that savings back into the payroll.

The Twins are generally a team that spends payroll as a percentage of revenue. Revenue was down last year...payroll goes down. Even if they're only willing to spend $7-9M of the $14M that Justin is making, it's likely to be a much better investment than Justin is...because since he got hurt in 2010, he's pretty much been a detriment save for 2 weeks this year.

Thrylos
07-02-2012, 09:45 AM
I'd shoot for Zach Lee from them and have the Twins throw a prospect or 2 if they need to balance it ;)

IdahoPilgrim
07-02-2012, 11:26 AM
Should we trade Morneau for gold? Let's see - he weighs 220lbs, or 3,520 ounces. The current value of gold is about $1600/oz. That would total a touch over $5.6M. Go for it. We could invest that in the rotation.

kab21
07-02-2012, 08:38 PM
I'd shoot for Zach Lee from them and have the Twins throw a prospect or 2 if they need to balance it ;)This is just being greedy. At this point the Twins should be happy to get a decent prospect for Morneau.

USAFChief
07-02-2012, 09:55 PM
The Twins are generally a team that spends payroll as a percentage of revenue. Revenue was down last year...payroll goes down. Even if they're only willing to spend $7-9M of the $14M that Justin is making, it's likely to be a much better investment than Justin is...because since he got hurt in 2010, he's pretty much been a detriment save for 2 weeks this year.

That seems unlikely at best. Got any proof of that claim?

I can see the possibility that in-stadium revenue was down last year, but there would have been no way to predict that going into the season last year. They were in year 2 of a new stadium, coming off a year in which they made the postseason, and there was a waiting list for season tickets. As bad as last year was, 2011 attendance was over 3.1M.

For the record, they're still averaging +/- 35,000 this year.

glunn
07-02-2012, 11:02 PM
I posted the question cuz I really don't know how I'd feel. I talk all tough about moving anyone for pitching. Then you look a deal in the face like Carlos Lee for Gould and you think to yourself is that comparable value for Justin Morneau.

And then you wonder... How would you feel if that was the trade piece we get back for Morneau. Then I think... My god... I'm a big wussy... Self doubting Monday morning armchair quarterback who's nervous all of a sudden on Friday.

There(exhale)... My soul is bared.

If they do trade Morneau, let's hope that they get more than Gould. If the Dodgers get even more desperate and if Morneau can pick up his game, the deal might be sweeter. One good think about the Twins position is that they can afford to be patient and hope that others will become desperate.

Riverbrian
07-02-2012, 11:52 PM
If they do trade Morneau, let's hope that they get more than Gould. If the Dodgers get even more desperate and if Morneau can pick up his game, the deal might be sweeter. One good think about the Twins position is that they can afford to be patient and hope that others will become desperate.

I think you are right Glunn. I'm hoping for a Morneau Plouffe like streak for July.

Crotalo
07-03-2012, 12:50 AM
That seems unlikely at best. Got any proof of that claim?

I can see the possibility that in-stadium revenue was down last year, but there would have been no way to predict that going into the season last year. They were in year 2 of a new stadium, coming off a year in which they made the postseason, and there was a waiting list for season tickets. As bad as last year was, 2011 attendance was over 3.1M.

For the record, they're still averaging +/- 35,000 this year.

They sold fewer tickets and didn't make the playoffs. Call it an educated guess.

Snortwood
07-03-2012, 01:02 AM
There is no market for Justin Morneau at the present time. Owed, what, $20M? And hitting like Drew Butera. Well, better than that, but at times not much.

Assume the Twins are on an unalterable 90 loss pace. Maybe they only lose 85. Wouldn't you feel stupid trading away Morneau this year when it turns out that if you were only a bit more patient and waited until next year you would get the old MVP caliber Morneau? Suggestion is, since the Twins aren't going anywhere this year and Morneau has missed pretty much two full years, let's give him a bit more time to get back into it. Spring 13 is when it will be time to make a solid assessment of Justin's go-forward abilities.

From here - do NOT trade him when his value is at its lowest.

USAFChief
07-03-2012, 01:54 AM
They sold fewer tickets and didn't make the playoffs. Call it an educated guess.

They sold 3.22M tix in 2010, 3.16M tix in 2011. They lost out on 1 home playoff game in 2011.

Uneducated, actually.

CDog
07-03-2012, 09:02 AM
They lost out on 1 home playoff game in 2011.

Likely doesn't change the point, but didn't they get two playoff games at Target Field in 2010?

Brock Beauchamp
07-03-2012, 09:03 AM
They sold 3.22M tix in 2010, 3.16M tix in 2011. They lost out on 1 home playoff game in 2011.

Uneducated, actually.

Don't visiting teams get half the gate in road playoff games?

Drawing from a very vague recollection from a long time ago with that so it could be wrong...