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View Full Version : Article: White Sox vs. Twins, 06/27/2012, 12:10pm



Brock Beauchamp
06-27-2012, 10:09 AM
You can view the page at http://www.twinsdaily.com/content.php?720-White-Sox-vs-Twins-12-10pm

Brock Beauchamp
06-27-2012, 10:38 AM
White Sox:
De Aza CF
Escobar 3B
Youkilis 1B
Dunn DH
Rios RF
Pierzynski C
Ramirez SS
Danks LF
Hudson 2B
(Sale P)

Twins:
Span CF
Revere RF
Mauer DH
Willingham LF
Morneau 1B
Plouffe 3B
Doumit C
Dozier SS
Carroll 2B
(Blackburn P)

DPJ
06-27-2012, 10:47 AM
Sale is gonna rip through that lineup like a hot knife through butter.

Boom Boom
06-27-2012, 10:59 AM
This might have been a good day to give Morneau a rest.

Brock Beauchamp
06-27-2012, 11:01 AM
This might have been a good day to give Morneau a rest.

Correction: this is the obvious day to give Morneau a rest.

Tcrose3636
06-27-2012, 11:05 AM
Just heard on the radio that it sounds like Morneau ask for "a peice of this kid"

Brock Beauchamp
06-27-2012, 11:09 AM
Just heard on the radio that it sounds like Morneau ask for "a peice of this kid"

We see a tough lefty on the mound today, he sees a Kit-Kat bar. Fantastic.

BCTwins
06-27-2012, 11:13 AM
All the chatter before yesterday's game was that the Twins were going to rip apart Gavin Floyd, especially with Doumit in the lineup. What did they do? Now the chatter is that Sale will obliterate this lineup. Maybe so or maybe not. I'd not be terribly surprised if Sale finally gets a shellacking this afternoon. Of course, perhaps that's just wishful thinking....

hawkiconk
06-27-2012, 11:17 AM
konerko, viciedo and beckham all on the pine

Boom Boom
06-27-2012, 11:21 AM
Just heard on the radio that it sounds like Morneau ask for "a peice of this kid"

I like Morneau's confidence. Hubris always pays off.

Gernzy
06-27-2012, 11:31 AM
This is one of my season tickets games. Co-worker is there right now. My seats are in the sun all game. He is going to roast!
On topic lets hope the Twins can pull this one off and get the series.

SwainZag
06-27-2012, 11:33 AM
Looking at the numbers, career wise the Twins are a collective 5-39 against Sale with 0 XBH and 12 K's. The only player with multiple hits is Mauer, and he is 2-8.

rnw24
06-27-2012, 11:58 AM
no hitter #2 against the twins this year?

Brock Beauchamp
06-27-2012, 12:20 PM
Blackburn gives up a hit, two flyballs after that, no damage.

Need more sink, Nick.

GCTF
06-27-2012, 12:21 PM
And Beardsie walks off the mound after his first inning NOT trailing.

jctwins
06-27-2012, 12:23 PM
Blackburn gives up a hit, two flyballs after that, no damage.

Need more sink, Nick.

rocketpig,
Bremer was explaining that Blackburn can get ground balls at will when his sinker is working.

Brock Beauchamp
06-27-2012, 12:27 PM
rocketpig,
Bremer was explaining that Blackburn can get ground balls at will when his sinker is working.

All it takes is willpower? It's time for a new Twins pitching coach. I have the perfect guy in mind.

1380

Brock Beauchamp
06-27-2012, 12:28 PM
Hey, look. Another ball in the air.

hawkiconk
06-27-2012, 12:28 PM
rios is one hot mofo

jctwins
06-27-2012, 12:29 PM
Hey, look. Another ball in the air.

Clearly, the sinker "isn't working."

Brock Beauchamp
06-27-2012, 12:29 PM
Revere's right arm strikes again. That's a hard throw for anyone but Revere has a zero chance to make it.

GCTF
06-27-2012, 12:29 PM
More quality fieldin'.

Brock Beauchamp
06-27-2012, 12:30 PM
Ouch. Dozier. Ouch.

He was staring down Rios while the ball rolled between his legs.

Brock Beauchamp
06-27-2012, 12:31 PM
And now a hit that Morneau fields easily if he's not holding on the runner.

And it all stems from Revere's awful arm. Nope, that arm doesn't factor into games at all.

jctwins
06-27-2012, 12:32 PM
An appearance from the Gold Glove Caliber Second Baseman is fitting.

Scheherezade
06-27-2012, 12:34 PM
And now a hit that Morneau fields easily if he's not holding on the runner.

And it all stems from Revere's awful arm. Nope, that arm doesn't factor into games at all.

Of course, if he was playing LF, Rios wouldn't have got on base at all.

Brock Beauchamp
06-27-2012, 12:36 PM
Of course, if he was playing LF, Rios wouldn't have got on base at all.

Another reason why this entire situation is baffling. While I doubt the difference is huge, left field has to be more active than right. More hitters are right-handed. Hitters tend to pull the ball when they make good contact. Revere's arm strength isn't as much of an issue in left.

There are a half dozen reasons for Revere to play in left and no good reasons for him to play in right.

Twins Baseball™.

DPJ
06-27-2012, 12:37 PM
When does the Brian Dozier experience end. I've yet to have a moment that leads be to believe he can hack it on offense or defense.

hawkiconk
06-27-2012, 12:39 PM
Another reason why this entire situation is baffling. While I doubt the difference is huge, left field has to be more active than right. More hitters are right-handed. Hitters tend to pull the ball when they make good contact. Revere's arm strength isn't as much of an issue in left.

There are a half dozen reasons for Revere to play in left and no good reasons for him to play in right.

Twins Baseball.i'm watching on chicago stations
ken harrelson praises gardy as ''one of the best in the business'' every couple innings

DPJ
06-27-2012, 12:40 PM
i'm watching on chicago stations
ken harrelson praises gardy as ''one of the best in the business'' every couple innings

Hawk also thought Gomez was the best outfield since Yaz.

DPJ
06-27-2012, 12:41 PM
Twins really making Sale work for it today.

hawkiconk
06-27-2012, 12:42 PM
Hawk also thought Gomez was the best outfield since Yaz.well
he has been ''in the game for parts of 7 decades'' which he makes sure no one forgets

USAFChief
06-27-2012, 12:45 PM
Another reason why this entire situation is baffling. While I doubt the difference is huge, left field has to be more active than right. More hitters are right-handed. Hitters tend to pull the ball when they make good contact. Revere's arm strength isn't as much of an issue in left.

There are a half dozen reasons for Revere to play in left and no good reasons for him to play in right.

Twins Baseball™.

We checked this at BYTO, remember? RF gets more balls than LF, consistently. CF gets the most.

For the record, Revere doesn't catch that double by Rios, either.

GCTF
06-27-2012, 12:45 PM
"Revere firing the ball"

makes me laugh.

DPJ
06-27-2012, 12:46 PM
God damn Blackburn is just such a bad pitcher.

USAFChief
06-27-2012, 12:46 PM
Clearly, the sinker "isn't working."

Too strong. Obviously.

rnw24
06-27-2012, 12:46 PM
Clearly, the sinker "isn't working."

clearly blackburn needs to go away...he sucks

asmus_ndsu
06-27-2012, 12:47 PM
Maybe its just my way of thinking but being able to get "a groundball at will" is about as counterproductive as a sacrifice bunt (in most situations)

hawkiconk
06-27-2012, 12:50 PM
danks looked like a clown

Brock Beauchamp
06-27-2012, 12:51 PM
We checked this at BYTO, remember? RF gets more balls than LF, consistently. CF gets the most.

For the record, Revere doesn't catch that double by Rios, either.

I remember discussing it but I missed any posts with data stating it one way or the other. Do you remember where someone found the info?

DPJ
06-27-2012, 12:51 PM
I hate bunts with a passion, but I'd bunt with Doz here.

DPJ
06-27-2012, 12:52 PM
.323/.375/562 BA against Blackburn...thank god he's locked up for next season.

GCTF
06-27-2012, 12:53 PM
outstanding.

Brock Beauchamp
06-27-2012, 12:53 PM
Sigh. This team makes me want to drink heavily.

hawkiconk
06-27-2012, 12:53 PM
doumit looked like a clown

DPJ
06-27-2012, 12:54 PM
I remember discussing it but I missed any posts with data stating it one way or the other. Do you remember where someone found the info?

There was never any data posted about more balls to RF over LF.

Chief (i think) just posted some bull**** about a players range and how it doesn't matter where they play.

DPJ
06-27-2012, 12:55 PM
Sigh. This team makes me want to drink heavily.

I'm still waiting for that .890 OPS SS with a gold glove to emerge.

Ultima Ratio
06-27-2012, 12:55 PM
All it takes is a hidden ball trick play to get our base runners out. This is the third baserunner of ours to get caught between bases this week. Horrible.

Brock Beauchamp
06-27-2012, 12:56 PM
I'm still waiting for that .890 OPS SS with a gold glove to emerge.

Right. Because that's exactly what I called Dozier.

Brock Beauchamp
06-27-2012, 12:56 PM
Eddie Munster with the walk.

DPJ
06-27-2012, 12:56 PM
All it takes is a hidden ball trick play to get our base runners out. This is the third baserunner of our to get catch between bases this week. Horrible.

They are managed by the best in the game.

DPJ
06-27-2012, 12:57 PM
Right. Because that's exactly what I called Dozier.

I wish BYTO was still open. I called Doz a middling prospect who's a utility player and you went ape ****.

Brock Beauchamp
06-27-2012, 12:59 PM
I wish BYTO was still open. I called Doz a middling prospect who's a utility player and you went ape ****.

And I replied that a guy who puts up an .890 OPS in the high minors is more than a middling prospect until he proves otherwise. That's it. That's all I ever argued.

On the other hand, I didn't even want him called up to Minnesota when the Twins did it. I thought he needed more time to sort out his early season woes.

DPJ
06-27-2012, 01:04 PM
And I replied that a guy who puts up an .890 OPS in the high minors is more than a middling prospect until he proves otherwise. That's it. That's all I ever argued.

On the other hand, I didn't even want him called up to Minnesota when the Twins did it. I thought he needed more time to sort out his early season woes.


I'm 99.9% sure you didn't say that at all.

You used .890 OPS about 15 times and gold glove about 4-5 times.

Brock Beauchamp
06-27-2012, 01:04 PM
Revere had some oomph behind that swing.

Too bad it happened at Target Field.

Brock Beauchamp
06-27-2012, 01:06 PM
I'm 99.9% sure you didn't say that at all.

You used .890 OPS about 15 times and gold glove about 4-5 times.

I've never referred to anyone as "gold glove". I intentionally never use that phrase unless they've actually won the award and then I generally use it sarcastically.

ofx1
06-27-2012, 01:07 PM
doumit looked like a ##### sox fan

ftfy

DPJ
06-27-2012, 01:08 PM
I've never referred to anyone as "gold glove". I intentionally never use that phrase unless they've actually won the award and then I generally use it sarcastically.


Bring back BYTO cause you are lying your ass off right now.

hawkiconk
06-27-2012, 01:09 PM
ftfy

pottymouth

Brock Beauchamp
06-27-2012, 01:11 PM
Bring back BYTO cause you are lying your ass off right now.

I'm not going to argue this with you. People here have been posting with me for a dozen years now. They know I don't throw around useless phrases like "gold glove" because that award is a joke.

Anyway, I'm finished with this conversation. The BYTO archive will return when it returns and you can feel free to dreg up any posts you like at that point.

USAFChief
06-27-2012, 01:17 PM
There was never any data posted about more balls to RF over LF.

Chief (i think) just posted some bull**** about a players range and how it doesn't matter where they play.

Putouts by RF are annually more than putouts by LFers, somewhere around 10% most years. I posted this data from baseball ref.

GCTF
06-27-2012, 01:18 PM
Haven't read all the posts...has anyone mentioned that Blackburn is horrible?

ofx1
06-27-2012, 01:19 PM
Bring back BYTO cause you are lying your ass off right now.

Just looked at the thread. He said plus glove, not gold glove.

jctwins
06-27-2012, 01:19 PM
Haven't read all the posts...has anyone mentioned that Blackburn is horrible?

He just hasn't got the sinker working yet. And the ball carries on a hot day. Nothing wrong with Blacky.

USAFChief
06-27-2012, 01:21 PM
Meanwhile, TF is a graveyard for HRs*.

*In the bottom half of innings.

adjacent
06-27-2012, 01:22 PM
Thank you Blackie, always putting the ball in the ground,.. eventually

Brock Beauchamp
06-27-2012, 01:22 PM
Putouts by RF are annually more than putouts by LFers, somewhere around 10% most years. I posted this data from baseball ref.

That big of a difference, eh? That's interesting. I wouldn't have expected that at all.

Boom Boom
06-27-2012, 01:24 PM
Putouts by RF are annually more than putouts by LFers, somewhere around 10% most years. I posted this data from baseball ref.

That's interesting. I wonder what variables feed that disparity - more home runs go to left field than right field? Worse defenders on the whole in left than in right?

asmus_ndsu
06-27-2012, 01:24 PM
He just hasn't got the sinker working yet. And the ball carries on a hot day. Nothing wrong with Blacky.

Other than the fact that hes pitching?

hawkiconk
06-27-2012, 01:26 PM
doz has a gold bat

GCTF
06-27-2012, 01:26 PM
No shutout.

It's the best we could hope for.

ofx1
06-27-2012, 01:27 PM
Other than the fact that hes pitching?

I'd be fine with him pitching life insurance....


Annnnnnnd (former) .890 OPS with a plus glove goes DeePJ :)

asmus_ndsu
06-27-2012, 01:28 PM
doz has a gold batNo wonder he has trouble with that heavy thing.... Good for him though with the HR, only need 6 more of those

Brock Beauchamp
06-27-2012, 01:28 PM
Annnnnnnd (former) .890 OPS with a plus glove goes DeePJ :)

Thankfully, the Twins cleared the bases of those pesky runners before that happened.

GCTF
06-27-2012, 01:31 PM
Jeff Manship...they still haven't sent this guy somewhere that even Baseball Reference wouldn't be able to find him?

Brock Beauchamp
06-27-2012, 01:33 PM
Jeff Manship...they still haven't sent this guy somewhere that even Baseball Reference wouldn't be able to find him?

Honestly, I think he's fine. He's awful and it'd be nice to have someone better but he's bullpen filler that (should) only throw garbage innings.

With that said, he is really awful.

asmus_ndsu
06-27-2012, 01:33 PM
Jeff Manship...they still haven't sent this guy somewhere that even Baseball Reference wouldn't be able to find him?Haha thats a good one

glunn
06-27-2012, 01:39 PM
I have now given up on any material chance of the Twins making the postseason.

GCTF
06-27-2012, 01:41 PM
lulz, brutal.

Brock Beauchamp
06-27-2012, 01:41 PM
I have now given up on any material chance of the Twins making the postseason.

Yep. This rotation has far too many holes in it to ever compete. When you're just hoping to not blow 3 out of 5 games in the first three innings, you have a very bad team.

glunn
06-27-2012, 01:42 PM
I feel sorry for the fans who are at Target Field today watching this debacle.

Mr. Ed
06-27-2012, 01:52 PM
sorry Jeff Manship. You need to go back to AAA.

USAFChief
06-27-2012, 01:54 PM
2012: Putouts as LF, Gordon leads with 143. 5th place has 72. Putouts as RF, Rios leads with 168, 5th place is 125.

Going back year by year, there's a pretty consistent disparity between LF and RF, with RFers annually having more putouts, roughly 10% or so on average.

I posted this at BYTO. Pay attention. :cool:

cr9617
06-27-2012, 01:55 PM
I have now given up on any material chance of the Twins making the postseason.

What took you so long?

USAFChief
06-27-2012, 01:56 PM
Back to the game...WTF can't Manship finish this one out?

And Spansie just denarded himself. Back in 2013?

hawkiconk
06-27-2012, 01:56 PM
wtf?
aj has 3 triples this season
span has 2

DPJ
06-27-2012, 01:57 PM
Back to the game...WTF can't Manship finish this one out?



You know Gardy has gotta burn through atleast 2-3 more arms.

Scheherezade
06-27-2012, 01:57 PM
I feel sorry for the fans who are at Target Field today watching this debacle.

Just got back to Minnesota and I considered jumping on the $8 student tickets. I'm glad I stayed home to watch it on TV. =)

IdahoPilgrim
06-27-2012, 02:01 PM
I feel sorry for the fans who are at Target Field today watching this debacle.

Well, you know what they say - even a bad day at the ballpark is better than... nah, I can't pull this one off.

asmus_ndsu
06-27-2012, 02:08 PM
Well the twinks did a good job of keeping sale true to his ERA today (unless they can bust something in late innings)

hawkiconk
06-27-2012, 02:10 PM
Well the twinks did a good job of keeping sale true to his ERA today (unless they can bust something in late innings)with his count his day should be over

jctwins
06-27-2012, 02:23 PM
And let the bullpen parade begin. WTF is Gardy thinking.

Brock Beauchamp
06-27-2012, 02:25 PM
And let the bullpen parade begin. WTF is Gardy thinking.

With the All-Star break on the way, you gotta... Oh, to hell with it. I got nothing.

DPJ
06-27-2012, 02:27 PM
And let the bullpen parade begin. WTF is Gardy thinking.

Thank goodness Gardy for that left on left matchup vs. AJ.

DPJ
06-27-2012, 02:28 PM
Just looked at the thread. He said plus glove, not gold glove.

Either way I'm still waiting for teh .890 OPS SS with a plus glove to emerge.

hawkiconk
06-27-2012, 02:31 PM
no lead is safe with OH MAN?? in the game

IdahoPilgrim
06-27-2012, 02:31 PM
And let the bullpen parade begin. WTF is Gardy thinking.

It's not as if we have a doubleheader coming on Saturday or anything...

fatbeer
06-27-2012, 02:34 PM
This game is so bad I almost watched a whole half of soccer.

DPJ
06-27-2012, 02:36 PM
I gotta image they'll send down Manship and maybe even RObertson to get some fresh arms for the weekend.

Guerra time?

Brock Beauchamp
06-27-2012, 02:39 PM
Either way I'm still waiting for teh .890 OPS SS with a plus glove to emerge.

God forbid that a 25 year old rookie struggle in his first 175 ABs with a major league club. Guys like Justin Morneau, Michael Cuddyer, Jason Kubel never had that problem. :p

hawkiconk
06-27-2012, 02:41 PM
flipping back and forth to cleve-ny
pettitte injured his ankle and it looks like the dl

mike wants wins
06-27-2012, 02:43 PM
Dozier has also been awful in the field.

Either way, the real problem remains this awful pitching staff with no help coming from the minors. Blackburn is just not good.

DPJ
06-27-2012, 02:44 PM
God forbid that a 25 year old rookie struggle in his first 175 ABs with a major league club. Guys like Justin Morneau, Michael Cuddyer, Jason Kubel never had that problem. :p

Morneau, Cuddyer and Kubel were all top prospects, Doz is a middle prospect at best that if he turns into a utility player is a success for the organization.

Brock Beauchamp
06-27-2012, 02:45 PM
Dozier has also been awful in the field.

He has been awful in the field. That's not unusual for rookies, either. All the scouting reports have him pegged as a decent shortstop, though his arm is sometimes in question. I'm not going to let rookie jitters on a bad team cloud my view of the player.

If he's still playing like this in September, it's a problem. If he's still playing like this in May of next season, it's a real problem.

Brock Beauchamp
06-27-2012, 02:50 PM
Doz is a middle prospect at best that if he turns into a utility player is a success for the organization.

Just about everybody disagrees with you but that's okay. Personally, I'm going to listen to what BA, BP, FG, and Sickels have to say about the kid over any forum poster.

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/daily-notes-your-brian-dozier-headquarters/

DPJ
06-27-2012, 02:51 PM
He has been awful in the field. That's not unusual for rookies, either. All the scouting reports have him pegged as a decent shortstop, though his arm is sometimes in question. I'm not going to let rookie jitters on a bad team cloud my view of the player.

If he's still playing like this in September, it's a problem. If he's still playing like this in May of next season, it's a real problem.

The one thing that really concerns me and anyone who's rooting for him is his complete lack of controling the strike zone. In the minors he was getting on-base alot, now he can't take a walk to save his life. If he's not getting on-base the rest of his game is fringy at best.

USAFChief
06-27-2012, 02:53 PM
The one thing that really concerns me and anyone who's rooting for him is his complete lack of controling the strike zone. In the minors he was getting on-base alot, now he can't take a walk to save his life. If he's not getting on-base the rest of his game is fringy at best.

Perhaps we should let him have more than a couple months in the big leagues before we make hard and fast declarations.

DPJ
06-27-2012, 02:54 PM
Just about everybody disagrees with you but that's okay. Personally, I'm going to listen to what BA, BP, FG, and Sickels have to say about the kid over any forum poster.

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/daily-notes-your-brian-dozier-headquarters/


You mean BA who ranked him 10th in a weak Twins system last season.

I'm not saying he's some fringe top 30 prospect like Tolbert was back in the day. But anyone touting this kids as an MLB starting SS is smoking drugs or an idiot.

hawkiconk
06-27-2012, 02:56 PM
But anyone touting this kids as an MLB starting SS is smoking drugs .you say that like it's a bad thing

snepp
06-27-2012, 03:00 PM
It's a real shame I missed the game today, a real shame.

ofx1
06-27-2012, 03:08 PM
you say that like it's a bad thing

:cool:

wavedog
06-27-2012, 04:04 PM
Just another embarassing outing from the pitching staff. Not sure we even have a AAA caliber staff.

Mr. Ed
06-27-2012, 04:28 PM
Waldrop up

Manship to AAA

Brock Beauchamp
06-27-2012, 05:50 PM
My favorite stat of the day:

Groundouts-flyouts: Blackburn 3-8

That's quite a sinkerballer the Twins got themselves right there, yes sirree.

one_eyed_jack
06-27-2012, 06:01 PM
I have now given up on any material chance of the Twins making the postseason.

---Yep. And it's maddening. You don't need much to compete in this utterly lame division (Cleveland is in second place and only 2.5 out despite having one of the worst run differentials in the entire league), and the fact that the Twins didn't have enough to hang in it until July says a lot about how bad they are right now.

one_eyed_jack
06-27-2012, 06:04 PM
My favorite stat of the day:

Groundouts-flyouts: Blackburn 3-8

That's quite a sinkerballer the Twins got themselves right there, yes sirree.


---Yeah, he's awesome isn't he? The scary thing is that Diamond is the only Twins pitcher with more wins.

The Greatest Poster Alive
06-27-2012, 07:08 PM
It's a real shame I missed the game today, a real shame.

I attended the game... watched all 9 painful innings.

BD57
06-27-2012, 07:33 PM
My favorite stat of the day:

Groundouts-flyouts: Blackburn 3-8

That's quite a sinkerballer the Twins got themselves right there, yes sirree.


It managed to sink the Twins again ...