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View Full Version : Article: White Sox vs. Twins, 06/25/2012, 7:10pm



Brock Beauchamp
06-25-2012, 03:31 PM
You can view the page at http://twinsdaily.com/content.php?709-White-Sox-vs-Twins-06-25-2012-7-10pm

Ultima Ratio
06-25-2012, 03:43 PM
Perhaps the most important series of the season (at least to keep the fans interested/teased for another couple of weeks) . For some reason I'm optimistic that we can win 2/3 and it all starts tonight, then take 2/3 against KC.

Brock Beauchamp
06-25-2012, 04:09 PM
White Sox:
De Aza CF
Youkilis 3B
Dunn DH
Konerko 1B
Rios RF
Pierzynski C
Viciedo LF
Ramirez SS
Beckham 2B
(Peavy P)

Twins:
Span CF
Revere RF
Mauer DH
Willingham LF
Morneau 1B
Plouffe 3B
Dozier SS
Butera C
Carroll 2B
(Liriano P)

SpiritofVodkaDave
06-25-2012, 04:25 PM
Cntrl+F= "Doumit"

zero results found.

Cntrl+F= "Butera"

one result found

WHY?

snepp
06-25-2012, 04:27 PM
Cntrl+F= "Doumit"

zero results found.

Cntrl+F= "Butera"

one result found

WHY?

Because Doumit excels against right-handed pitching, and Peavy is a....well....ummm.....Butera calls a great game!

SweetOne69
06-25-2012, 04:29 PM
Cntrl+F= "Doumit"

zero results found.

Cntrl+F= "Butera"

one result found

WHY?

Since Liriano was reinserted into the rotation, Butera has been his personal catcher. Butera does a better job of babysitting Liriano than Mauer does. He goes out to the mound more and is more animated behind the plate in his efforts to keep Liriano focused and relaxed.

jokin
06-25-2012, 04:34 PM
Perhaps the most important series of the season (at least to keep the fans interested/teased for another couple of weeks) . For some reason I'm optimistic that we can win 2/3 and it all starts tonight, then take 2/3 against KC.

Has anyone seen Ryan Doumit's face on the side of any milk cartons? One day off, yes, but two straight days? Yes, Liriano is pitching (Son of Sal caddy duty), but unless he's hurt, how do you keep his bat out of the lineup again?

He's only the top hitting MLB catcher over the last 7 days. Here's his line: .467/.467/.733/.1200, with a .515 WOBA. Hey, at least we have a good PH option available. I just like riding those hot bats as long as possible, especially in a big series like this.

Brock Beauchamp
06-25-2012, 04:38 PM
Cntrl+F= "Doumit"

zero results found.

Cntrl+F= "Butera"

one result found

WHY?

Francisco really likes it when Son of Sal slaps him on the ass and yells "ˇbravo!" after every half inning.

Mauer and Doumit just don't have that kind of relationship with Liriano.

Twins Baseball™. Completely illogical since 2002.

Brock Beauchamp
06-25-2012, 04:41 PM
Has anyone seen Ryan Doumit's face on the side of any milk cartons? One day off, yes, but two straight days? Yes, Liriano is pitching (Son of Sal caddy duty), but unless he's hurt, how do you keep his bat out of the lineup again?

He's only the top hitting MLB catcher over the last 7 days. Here's his line: .467/.467/.733/.1200, with a .515 WOBA. Hey, at least we have a good PH option available. I just like riding those hot bats as long as possible, especially in a big series like this.

There is no reason for two of the better-hitting catchers in baseball to be out from behind the plate in favor of the absolute worst hitter in all of major league baseball to be in their place.

None. It's awful. Just awful.

SpiritofVodkaDave
06-25-2012, 04:42 PM
Francisco really likes it when Son of Sal slaps him on the ass and yells "ˇbravo!" after every half inning.

Mauer and Doumit just don't have that kind of relationship with Liriano.

Twins Baseball™. Completely illogical since 2002.

I assumed they just enjoyed playing so much in the NL that they decided to keep at least one guy in the lineup who has no chance of getting multiple hits in a game.

snepp
06-25-2012, 04:51 PM
Since Liriano was reinserted into the rotation, Butera has been his personal catcher. Butera does a better job of babysitting Liriano than Mauer does. He goes out to the mound more and is more animated behind the plate in his efforts to keep Liriano focused and relaxed.

No amount of babysitting will ever make up for this (http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=all&stats=bat&lg=all&qual=400&type=8&season=2012&month=0&season1=2010&ind=0&team=0&rost=0&age=0&players=0&sort=17,a).

GCTF
06-25-2012, 05:05 PM
I assumed they just enjoyed playing so much in the NL that they decided to keep at least one guy in the lineup who has no chance of getting multiple hits in a game.

Looks like your sponsorship of Buterrible's BRef page has expired. Just giving a heads up.

GCTF
06-25-2012, 05:06 PM
No amount of babysitting will ever make up for this (http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=all&stats=bat&lg=all&qual=400&type=8&season=2012&month=0&season1=2010&ind=0&team=0&rost=0&age=0&players=0&sort=17,a).

He's no Johnny Bench, or Mrs. Bench for that matter.

snepp
06-25-2012, 05:08 PM
I bid $0.25.

SpiritofVodkaDave
06-25-2012, 05:15 PM
Looks like your sponsorship of Buterrible's BRef page has expired. Just giving a heads up.

Yeah, they doubled the price to $35! Bastards.

striker_86
06-25-2012, 05:16 PM
I bet Youk goes 3 for 4 with a homer tonight.... :(

twinzgrl
06-25-2012, 05:31 PM
I'm not a big Butera fan or anything, but the man is hitting much better this season than last...and if he can keep Liriano calm, well, he deserves a medal. Another White Sox series, another three games of AJ antics....can't wait.

Brock Beauchamp
06-25-2012, 05:37 PM
I'm not a big Butera fan or anything, but the man is hitting much better this season than last...and if he can keep Liriano calm, well, he deserves a medal. Another White Sox series, another three games of AJ antics....can't wait.

He's had all of 50 ABs this season (even though it seems like about 100 more than that). The guy is one of the worst hitters in baseball. That's not going to change. He shouldn't be on any team's roster, much less starting games in front of talented catchers like Mauer and Doumit.

Remember when people thought Butera helped Pavano concentrate? And remember how Pavano put up the same numbers when Mauer was behind the plate?

Butera does far more damage to the lineup with the bat than any benefit he could ever bring to a pitcher's delicate mindset. These pitchers aren't children. They've made it to the highest level of professional sports by being mentally tough enough to compete. Francisco is pitching well because his mechanics are back in order and because he's using his devastating slider more often, not because Son of Sal is sitting behind the plate, making sure the bottom third of the Twins lineup never, ever scores another run.

jokin
06-25-2012, 05:45 PM
He's had all of 50 ABs this season (even though it seems like about 100 more than that). The guy is one of the worst hitters in baseball. That's not going to change. He shouldn't be on any team's roster, much less starting games in front of talented catchers like Mauer and Doumit.

Remember when people thought Butera helped Pavano concentrate? And remember how Pavano put up the same numbers when Mauer was behind the plate?

Butera does far more damage to the lineup with the bat than any benefit he could ever bring to a pitcher's delicate mindset. These pitchers aren't children. They've made it to the highest level of professional sports by being mentally tough enough to compete. Francisco is pitching well because his mechanics are back in order and because he's using his devastating slider more often, not because Son of Sal is sitting behind the plate, making sure the bottom third of the Twins lineup never, ever scores another run.

This causes me to start bringing in the nepotism topic from another thread. Somehow, I doubt the reason Sal JR catches for Liriano is because of his scholarly command of South American Spanish and Gardy's pledge of no more scholarships and no more 3 rostered catchers lasted about 30 days. Even his fielding statistics are below Bench level- and by that I mean Mrs. Bench.

snepp
06-25-2012, 05:47 PM
I'm not a big Butera fan or anything, but the man is hitting much better this season than last...

No, not really.

The only difference between this year, and the previous years, is that he had a spurt of good games right away rather than hidden somewhere in the middle.

snepp
06-25-2012, 05:54 PM
Curiosity ensues...

First 28 plate appearances this season for the Son of Sal:

.909 OPS, 3bb/2so

Last 27:

.345 OPS, 1bb/8so

In 2011 he had a 29 PA stretch with a 1.009 OPS (http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/gl.cgi?id=buterdr01&t=b&year=2011&share=0.33#82-91-sum:batting_gamelogs).

In 2010 he had a 39 PA stretch with an .887 OPS (http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/gl.cgi?id=buterdr01&t=b&year=2010&share=3.31#21-31-sum:batting_gamelogs).

kydoty
06-25-2012, 05:54 PM
Finally I get around to posting here.

13 year ESPN/BYTO veteran. Happy to be here. Don't mind the mud I just dragged in.

USAFChief
06-25-2012, 06:00 PM
Curiosity ensues...

First 28 plate appearances this season for the Son of Sal:

.909 OPS, 3bb/2so

Last 27:

.345 OPS, 1bb/8so

In 2011 he had a 29 PA stretch with a 1.009 OPS (http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/gl.cgi?id=buterdr01&t=b&year=2011&share=0.33#82-91-sum:batting_gamelogs).

In 2010 he had a 39 PA stretch with an .887 OPS (http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/gl.cgi?id=buterdr01&t=b&year=2010&share=3.31#21-31-sum:batting_gamelogs).

pfft. He hadn't worked with Bruno in those years. Get with the times, Snepp.

snepp
06-25-2012, 06:04 PM
pfft. He hadn't worked with Bruno in those years. Get with the times, Snepp.

The Bruno Effect.


©2012 snepp

Chance
06-25-2012, 06:42 PM
not the right place for this, I know, but since I'm sick of Butera talk I want to throw it out there. The Twins have a couple pitchers in NB pitching very well. Hermsen and Perdomo are doing pretty decent, and since the Twins dug into the Rochester cookie jar and pulled out Tyler Robertson, is it time to call them up and so we have someone (if they pitch well) that is an option if (God forbid) we need another pitcher? we are getting skimpy at the AAA level.

USAFChief
06-25-2012, 06:43 PM
Finally I get around to posting here.

13 year ESPN/BYTO veteran. Happy to be here. Don't mind the mud I just dragged in.

Rookies are to be seen and not heard, rook.

Thrylos
06-25-2012, 06:53 PM
not the right place for this, I know, but since I'm sick of Butera talk I want to throw it out there. The Twins have a couple pitchers in NB pitching very well. Hermsen and Perdomo are doing pretty decent, and since the Twins dug into the Rochester cookie jar and pulled out Tyler Robertson, is it time to call them up and so we have someone (if they pitch well) that is an option if (God forbid) we need another pitcher? we are getting skimpy at the AAA level.

Perdomo just got promoted to Rochester

Chance
06-25-2012, 06:54 PM
Perdomo just got promoted to Rochester

Well, good, were on the same page then... Did that happen Yesterday?

Chance
06-25-2012, 07:09 PM
Any perdictions for the game? Final score? Player production?

4-3 Twins. Butera an extra base hit.

snepp
06-25-2012, 07:19 PM
Off to a good start, for what it's worth.



Butera an extra base hit.

Awfully brave walking out on that limb.

glunn
06-25-2012, 07:24 PM
Finally I get around to posting here.

13 year ESPN/BYTO veteran. Happy to be here. Don't mind the mud I just dragged in.

Welcome new member!

glunn
06-25-2012, 07:27 PM
Peavy has been scary good this year. If the Twins can get more than a few runs in the early innings, that will be a positive sign that they might be able to contend in the Central. Willingham hitting into the DP didn't help.

Chance
06-25-2012, 07:29 PM
Awfully brave walking out on that limb.

HA. Yes, I like to take risks.

kydoty
06-25-2012, 07:31 PM
Who is this Liriano that keeps popping up every now and then?

Brock Beauchamp
06-25-2012, 07:33 PM
Just do that eight more times and that'd be swell.

kydoty
06-25-2012, 07:39 PM
Welcome to Chicago, Youk.

snepp
06-25-2012, 07:40 PM
Awesome Drew, a runner on third with less than two outs, and you strikeout on three balls.



Edit: bailed out by Carroll.

Ultima Ratio
06-25-2012, 07:40 PM
And that's why it is stupid to bat Butera in front of Carroll.

Chance
06-25-2012, 07:41 PM
nice hit by Carroll. we needed that

Brock Beauchamp
06-25-2012, 07:42 PM
And that's why it is stupid to bat Butera

I deleted the redundancy in your post.

snepp
06-25-2012, 07:43 PM
And that's why it is stupid to bat Butera.

I couldn't agree more.

kydoty
06-25-2012, 07:44 PM
I don't know about that one, blue.

Brock Beauchamp
06-25-2012, 07:45 PM
This is certainly not how I expected this game to start.

Ultima Ratio
06-25-2012, 07:46 PM
I deleted the redundancy in your post.

Thanks, I agree, though if one insists on batting Butera, it should be 9th or 10th in the order.

Ultima Ratio
06-25-2012, 07:47 PM
This feels good right now... feels.... normal (as in the not so distant past)... I love playing and beating the sox.

Brock Beauchamp
06-25-2012, 07:49 PM
This feels good right now... feels.... normal (as in the not so distant past)... I love playing and beating the sox.

Yes. It's been too long since the White Sox were the Twins' red-headed stepchildren. I miss those days.

PMKI
06-25-2012, 07:49 PM
Are the Twins going to wear these M hats forever?

Ultima Ratio
06-25-2012, 07:50 PM
Someone need to teach Revere not to jump for that ball. No reason, makes it more difficult and increases the risk of injury.

Kobs
06-25-2012, 07:51 PM
Yes Dick, the Twins are lucky no 35' tall fan interfered with that one.

snepp
06-25-2012, 07:52 PM
Jumping excitement > Not jumping excitement

Brock Beauchamp
06-25-2012, 07:52 PM
Yes Dick, the Twins are lucky no 35' tall fan interfered with that one.

Aw, man, did I miss a Dickbert gem?

snepp
06-25-2012, 07:55 PM
Aw, man, did I miss a Dickbert gem?

Yes.



10char

kydoty
06-25-2012, 07:56 PM
Another lucky Twins bounce </whitesoxinteractive>

Kobs
06-25-2012, 08:00 PM
This place seem slow to anyone else?

Brock Beauchamp
06-25-2012, 08:02 PM
This place seem slow to anyone else?

Page loading speed, you mean?

Kobs
06-25-2012, 08:04 PM
Yeah, seems somewhat better now.

Kobs
06-25-2012, 08:06 PM
Eight dollars to stand at a Twins' game?

Brock Beauchamp
06-25-2012, 08:07 PM
Yeah, seems somewhat better now.

I've noticed that the site occasionally hiccups and slows down for a moment. It usually clears up right away.

glunn
06-25-2012, 08:08 PM
So long as Liriano can continue to put up zeros, I don't mind him having a personal catcher. Butera's weakness as a batter seems minor compared with shutting out the White Sox (and giving Doumit some extra rest).

Kobs
06-25-2012, 08:10 PM
That girl clearly just looked at Bert's groin.

Kobs
06-25-2012, 08:13 PM
So long as Liriano can continue to put up zeros, I don't mind him having a personal catcher. Butera's weakness as a batter seems minor compared with shutting out the White Sox (and giving Doumit some extra rest).

How about finding a personal catcher who doesnt suck?

Brock Beauchamp
06-25-2012, 08:16 PM
So long as Liriano can continue to put up zeros, I don't mind him having a personal catcher. Butera's weakness as a batter seems minor compared with shutting out the White Sox (and giving Doumit some extra rest).

The thing is that there shouldn't be any connection between Butera and success and coddling the media, fans, and players with fantasies only strengthens a faulty idea. Liriano has thrown to many catchers in his career, including primarily Mauer during Francisco's best season, 2010. Butera wasn't around when Liriano dominated in 2006. On the other hand, Drew was around all season and caught Liriano many times during his epic-terrible 2011.

So why is Drew getting credit now? Because Liriano is pitching well? Why didn't Drew get the blame when Francisco was awful? The Twins should be the ones most aware that Liriano is throwing better because of his mechanics and slider and that Drew has nothing to do with it. This kind of ridiculous "folksy baseball" that the franchise (and particularly Gardy) likes to spin absolutely infuriates me. It's completely counter to logic and uses as much critical thinking as a Kardashian.

edavis0308
06-25-2012, 08:28 PM
Just make Butera a fulltime pitcher and have him replace (insert crappy pitcher name here) in the rotation/bullpen. Tada problem solved!

glunn
06-25-2012, 08:30 PM
The thing is that there shouldn't be any connection between Butera and success and coddling the media, fans, and players with fantasies only strengthens a faulty idea. Liriano has thrown to many catchers in his career, including primarily Mauer during Francisco's best season, 2010. Butera wasn't around when Liriano dominated in 2006. On the other hand, Drew was around all season and caught Liriano many times during his epic-terrible 2011.

So why is Drew getting credit now? Because Liriano is pitching well? Why didn't Drew get the blame when Francisco was awful? The Twins should be the ones most aware that Liriano is throwing better because of his mechanics and slider and that Drew has nothing to do with it. This kind of ridiculous "folksy baseball" that this franchise (and particularly Gardy) likes to spin absolutely infuriates me. It's completely counter to logic and uses as much critical thinking as a Kardashian.

Butera presents a nice low target, and seems to be able to get the most out of Liriano. Why not let Doumit get some well-deserved rest, so long as Liriano and Butera are producing great results?

Pius Jefferson
06-25-2012, 08:31 PM
I'm hoping it's more Liriano being superstitious, than Gardy actually believing Drew Butera is why Liriano is pitching well.

Kobs
06-25-2012, 08:32 PM
I dont care how good Peavy's move is, Revere cannot stay at first.

edavis0308
06-25-2012, 08:32 PM
Butera presents a nice low target, and seems to be able to get the most out of Liriano. Why not let Doumit get some well-deserved rest, so long as Liriano and Butera are producing great results?

So in a vacuum you advocate carrying three catchers?

Chance
06-25-2012, 08:34 PM
If Liriano is more comfortable throwing to Butera than the others then whats the big deal. I rather take a dominate Liriano and butera every fifth day than one more day of Doumit.

Brock Beauchamp
06-25-2012, 08:35 PM
Butera presents a nice low target, and seems to be able to get the most out of Liriano. Why not let Doumit get some well-deserved rest, so long as Liriano and Butera are producing great results?

Ryan Doumit has now played three times in the past six days. He doesn't need rest unless he's injured.

My point is that in 2010, Mauer caught Liriano almost exclusively because Butera was "Pavano's personal catcher" and Liriano had the best season of his career. On the other hand, Mauer was injured for much of 2011 and Butera caught Liriano more than anyone else and Liriano was flat-out awful.

Why do we keep accepting this organization's half-baked ideas that Butera is some kind of Holy Grail of Catching? It's pure nonsense and insulting to our intelligence. There is zero evidence to support it and plenty of evidence to discount it. On the flip side of things, there are mountains of data showing how much damage Butera does to the offense on a daily basis.

Drew Butera has no business being on the roster of a major league baseball team.

glunn
06-25-2012, 08:35 PM
So in a vacuum you advocate carrying three catchers?

No, but when presented with lemons, I like to make sweet lemonade if I can.

glunn
06-25-2012, 08:42 PM
Ryan Doumit has now played three times in the past six days. He doesn't need rest unless he's injured.

My point is that in 2010, Mauer caught Liriano almost exclusively because Butera was "Pavano's personal catcher" and Liriano had the best season of his career. On the other hand, Mauer was injured for much of 2011 and Butera caught Liriano more than anyone else and Liriano was flat-out awful.

Why do we keep accepting this organization's half-baked ideas that Butera is some kind of Holy Grail of Catching? It's pure nonsense and insulting to our intelligence. There is zero evidence to support it and plenty of evidence to discount it. On the flip side of things, there are mountains of data showing how much damage Butera does to the offense on a daily basis.

Drew Butera has no business being on the roster of a major league baseball team.

Baseball is a game where one-tenth of an inch can make all the difference. Even if Liriano's confidence in Butera is based purely on superstition, that seems worth it so long as they are producing together.

Brock Beauchamp
06-25-2012, 08:48 PM
Baseball is a game where one-tenth of an inch can make all the difference. Even if Liriano's confidence in Butera is based purely on superstition, that seems worth it so long as they are producing together.

It's the manager's job to make sure his players don't have insane notions and are in the proper mindset. If Liriano is never caught by anyone other than Son of Sal and Gardy quips his folksy wisdom about how Drew "always does the little things, gives Liriano-y a low target, herp derp", how on earth does anyone really know that Drew makes a difference? Empirical evidence certainly doesn't support the idea. It doesn't hold up under critical analysis, either. In fact, other than the ramblings of the manager and front office, there is zero reason to think this is a good idea and a laundry list of reasons why it's a bad one.

It's Gardy's job to convince Liriano that the best catcher on the roster gives him the best chance to win, not reinforce flawed ideas and 1950s baseball "knowledge".

PseudoSABR
06-25-2012, 08:49 PM
No, but when presented with lemons, I like to make sweet lemonade if I can.That's the grandma logic the Twins seem to be using to. I say leave the doily like platitudes on the buffet table.

Suggesting that your finding the silver lining doesn't justify poor roster management on the Twins part...

glunn
06-25-2012, 08:51 PM
It's the manager's job to make sure his players don't have insane notions and are in the proper mindset. If Liriano is never caught by anyone other than Son of Sal and Gardy quips his folksy wisdom about how Drew "always does the little things, gives Liriano-y a low target, herp derp", how on earth does anyone really know that Drew makes a difference? Empirical evidence certainly doesn't support the idea. It doesn't hold up under critical analysis, either. In fact, other than the ramblings of the manager and front office, there is zero reason to think this is a good idea and a laundry list of reasons why it's a bad one.

I agree with you from the perspective of logic and rational analysis. But as long as the Liriano-Butera partnership is producing wins, I am happy to go with irrational superstition.

Chance
06-25-2012, 08:53 PM
Any perdictions for the game? Final score? Player production?

4-3 Twins. Butera an extra base hit.

Nailed It!

Scheherezade
06-25-2012, 08:54 PM
Speaking of that, Butera just knocked out a double.

edavis0308
06-25-2012, 08:56 PM
I agree with you from the perspective of logic and rational analysis. But as long as the Liriano-Butera partnership is producing wins, I am happy to go with irrational superstition.

Oh, so as long as Liriano isn't a headcase and pitches closer to his potential? That's would open the door up to not.needing a league worst hitting personal catcher.

Ultima Ratio
06-25-2012, 08:56 PM
I've noticed that the site occasionally hiccups and slows down for a moment. It usually clears up right away.
All day, and for the first time, I've had problems with the page loading. When I click to the next page of comments, for example, it will not load properly. Running the latest version of Safari and never had problems till now and only on this site. Hope it clears up.

edavis0308
06-25-2012, 08:56 PM
I feel like Butera was just a lead character in Frailty that whole sequence.

Brock Beauchamp
06-25-2012, 08:57 PM
I agree with you from the perspective of logic and rational analysis. But as long as the Liriano-Butera partnership is producing wins, I am happy to go with irrational superstition.

And while I'm not going to argue with you too much about it, I'm just tired of hearing these excuses and reasons from Gardy. It's been ten years of this same crap. If things are going well, Butera is Liriano's Personal Savior. Obviously, lil Drew is the reason for Francisco's success this season because he, uh, caught his first game back in the rotation or something.

But when he was the worst hitter in baseball and catching an awful Liriano on the way to a 99 loss season in 2011? Not a %$*&ing word.

I'm really tired of asking myself whether Gardenhire even watches baseball. I was hoping with the return of JR (and the impending roster/franchise clean-up that followed), one of the first things to be discussed would have been "Ron, you are no longer allowed to play awful players every day just because you like them."

Brock Beauchamp
06-25-2012, 08:57 PM
All day, and for the first time, I've had problems with the page loading. When I click to the next page of comments, for example, it will not load properly. Running the latest version of Safari and never had problems till now and only on this site. Hope it clears up.

You're getting that as well? I just noticed it for the first time about an hour ago.

Dilligaf69
06-25-2012, 08:58 PM
Twins could/should have put this game away!

Riverbrian
06-25-2012, 08:59 PM
Never been a Butera fan... I never understood how he is even considered for MLB duty. However... If Butera on the roster means Revere can stay up nd Doumit doesn't join the outfield with Willingham.

25 man roster him up and lets go Drew!!!

snepp
06-25-2012, 09:00 PM
I agree with you from the perspective of logic and rational analysis. But as long as the Liriano-Butera partnership is producing wins, I am happy to go with irrational superstition.

2 wins and 3 losses during these recent starts, while averaging 2 runs scored per game, with Drew "contributing" about a .250 OPS to that "offense."

Dilligaf69
06-25-2012, 09:01 PM
Butera presents a nice low target, and seems to be able to get the most out of Liriano. Why not let Doumit get some well-deserved rest, so long as Liriano and Butera are producing great results?


Butera is still only catching once a week outside of interleague...why not let him catch Liriano??

kydoty
06-25-2012, 09:01 PM
Get Liriano out of there now before he has one of those innings. Stop waiting until after the house burns down before trying to put out the fire.

snepp
06-25-2012, 09:02 PM
That wasn't a wild pitch, that was a lazy job of catching.

Brock Beauchamp
06-25-2012, 09:03 PM
Never been a Butera fan... I never understood how he is even considered for MLB duty. However... If Butera on the roster means Revere can stay up nd Doumit doesn't join the outfield with Willingham.

25 man roster him up and lets go Drew!!!

Honestly, I don't even care if he's on the roster if Gardy is that paranoid about having a third catcher to give him the option of occasionally DHing/OFing Doumit.

But when Butera is actually starting in place of Doumit? No. No, man. That's just bad baseball.

snepp
06-25-2012, 09:03 PM
Butera is still only catching once a week outside of interleague...why not let him catch Liriano??

You mean besides being one of the worst baseball players in the entire league?

Brock Beauchamp
06-25-2012, 09:04 PM
Butera is still only catching once a week outside of interleague...why not let him catch Liriano??

Why should Butera drag down this team's offense once a week when Ryan Doumit is on the roster?

Ultima Ratio
06-25-2012, 09:05 PM
I hope, in Liriano's memoir one day, that he'll tell us the how, what and why it is possible to go from lights out to horrible and back and forth over and over.

glunn
06-25-2012, 09:07 PM
And while I'm not going to argue with you too much about it, I'm just tired of hearing these excuses and reasons from Gardy. It's been ten years of this same crap. If things are going well, Butera is Liriano's Personal Savior. Obviously, lil Drew is the reason for Francisco's success this season because he, uh, caught his first game back in the rotation or something.

But when he was the worst hitter in baseball and catching an awful Liriano on the way to a 99 loss season in 2011? Not a %$*&ing word.

I'm really tired of asking myself whether Gardenhire even watches baseball. I was hoping with the return of JR (and the impending roster/franchise clean-up that followed), one of the first things to be discussed would have been "Ron, you are no longer allowed to play awful players every day just because you like them."

This might make you happy -- if the Twins trade Liriano, the other team might be tempted to take his personal catcher as well.

PseudoSABR
06-25-2012, 09:08 PM
Butera is still only catching once a week outside of interleague...why not let him catch Liriano??
Because it's Major League baseball, not a pick up game out in the street. People are talking about Butera as if he's Liriano's kid brother, whom the entire neighborhood tries to leave out.

I can buy that Butera might do somethings that puts Liriano at ease, what I can't buy is that Butera's pampering skills make up for his anemic bat nor do I buy the notion that Mauer or Doumit could not similarly placate the itty bitty, sensitive lefty.

GCTF
06-25-2012, 09:11 PM
Thank God Johnny Bench was able to get Frankie to work out of that!

The Greatest Poster Alive
06-25-2012, 09:11 PM
Way to limit the damage Liriano... will be interesting to see how gardy uses his pen in the 8th and 9th.

Ultima Ratio
06-25-2012, 09:14 PM
Revere hitting out of his head right now. I love it.

edavis0308
06-25-2012, 09:15 PM
Good job Revere. Now steal Damnit. AJ is behind the plate, not yadie

PseudoSABR
06-25-2012, 09:15 PM
I wish this Revere guy would get on base every once in a while so he could utilize his speed.

Brock Beauchamp
06-25-2012, 09:19 PM
I wish this Revere guy would get on base every once in a while so he could utilize his speed.

I admit that I may have been wrong about the kid. He looks like a different player. That'll teach me to write off a 23 year old player. He'll never be great but he could easily be league average, possibly better once you factor in his speed.

Ultima Ratio
06-25-2012, 09:20 PM
That's a 10-year-old mistake Revere. Come on baby. Think with your head not your legs.

NorthwestTwinsFan
06-25-2012, 09:20 PM
Revere just made one of the worst baserunning mistakes I've ever seen.

Riverbrian
06-25-2012, 09:21 PM
Most on this website should know that I have stood up for Revere since the beginning of the year.

With that said... Bonehead play by Ben. Willingham also should have held up a stop sign. and I would like to know what words came out of the 3b coaches mouth. Was it go or no.

Scheherezade
06-25-2012, 09:21 PM
What happened? I just saw on gameday that Willingham walked and Ben was caught stealing home?

snepp
06-25-2012, 09:23 PM
Dick, "Morneau used to be equally good against lefties."


Nevermind the nearly .200 point OPS difference in his career splits.


It's crap like this that leads to the "un"education of the average fan watching the game.

Chance
06-25-2012, 09:24 PM
the ball got away from AJ but not far enough to run home

Kobs
06-25-2012, 09:24 PM
Is it that they're both awful?

USAFChief
06-25-2012, 09:24 PM
Most on this website should know that I have stood up for Revere since the beginning of the year.

With that said... Bonehead play by Ben. Willingham also should have held up a stop sign. and I would like to know what words came out of the 3b coaches mouth. Was it go or no.

The third base coach is a non factor on a ball that gets past the catcher. That's 100 percent on the baserunner.

Brock Beauchamp
06-25-2012, 09:25 PM
That's the best outcome you could ask from Morneau in that situation.

Ultima Ratio
06-25-2012, 09:25 PM
I would like to know what words came out of the 3b coaches mouth. Was it go or no.

A fly on that wall can't' tell you what isn't heard. Liddle is a space cadet.

kydoty
06-25-2012, 09:27 PM
Bert: "There ya go baby. Put your face in there!"

Riverbrian
06-25-2012, 09:27 PM
What happened? I just saw on gameday that Willingham walked and Ben was caught stealing home?

Pitch squirted away from AJ. Ben took off but the ball only moved a foot or two away from the plate and was out by 4 miles.

Ben actually had a slight pause before going. Enough time to be talked out of going. IE base coach...

Meanwhile Willingham stood like a statue and had no idea that Ben was coming. A simple hand up may have helped.

Gardy did not say a word as Revere walked past smiling in the dugout. I thought that was odd...

Bad baserunning no dispute.

Ultima Ratio
06-25-2012, 09:28 PM
Just stay out of the dirty double, please.

kydoty
06-25-2012, 09:30 PM
Wow, nice shoestring catch.

Kobs
06-25-2012, 09:31 PM
"Shoestring-type catch"

NorthwestTwinsFan
06-25-2012, 09:31 PM
Gardy did not say a word as Revere walked past smiling in the dugout. I thought that was odd...

Bad baserunning no dispute.

Yeah, I think the huge smile on Revere's face bothered me more than the baserunning mistake did.

snepp
06-25-2012, 09:31 PM
This has been a strange inning.

Ultima Ratio
06-25-2012, 09:31 PM
I'm listening to the Wsox broadcast and they are insisting that Mauer left too early and very upset that no one checked the out at third. Nice AB Plouffe, for my part.

Riverbrian
06-25-2012, 09:32 PM
The third base coach is a non factor on a ball that gets past the catcher. That's 100 percent on the baserunner.

I disagree... I've never met a 3B coach that doesn't yell... Go or back on passed balls.

Im also not trying to deflect any criticsism off of Ben. He f'd up. He may screw up again before the seasons out. Young guys make mistakes.

Kobs
06-25-2012, 09:32 PM
Gardy's amazing fundamentals training really showing up tonight on the bases.

Ultima Ratio
06-25-2012, 09:33 PM
hahaha, the replay clearly shows that Mauer waited until after the catch... these wsox guys....

glunn
06-25-2012, 09:34 PM
I'm listening to the Wsox broadcast and they are insisting that Mauer left too early and very upset that no one checked the out at third. Nice AB Plouffe, for my part.

Sounds like typical White Sox crybabying to me. One of the many reasons why beating the White Sox feels so sweet.

USAFChief
06-25-2012, 09:34 PM
Gardy's amazing fundamentals training really showing up tonight on the bases.

Among other things, I've thought this year's Twins team was among the poorest at running the bases in my memory.

PseudoSABR
06-25-2012, 09:34 PM
Why isn't Doumit pinch hitting right here!?

mhanson93
06-25-2012, 09:34 PM
And there's Butera to kill the rally....

Ultima Ratio
06-25-2012, 09:35 PM
Again, Butera comes up the bases loaded rather than the superior hitter (by comparison) Carroll. Let's go ahead and change this in the future Gardy.

kydoty
06-25-2012, 09:36 PM
Why isn't Doumit pinch hitting right here!?

No ****. :mad:

Where's the puking smiley?

Ultima Ratio
06-25-2012, 09:36 PM
Why isn't Doumit pinch hitting right here!?

I haven't heard anything but assume that his calf is still hurting him. I don't get it either.

Kobs
06-25-2012, 09:37 PM
Again, Butera comes up the bases loaded rather than the superior hitter (by comparison) Carroll. Let's go ahead and change this in the future Gardy.

Butera batting in that spot provides a better target for Liriano. Don't question it.

NorthwestTwinsFan
06-25-2012, 09:37 PM
hahaha, the replay clearly shows that Mauer waited until after the catch... these wsox guys....

Yeah, those guys are terrible. I can't watch their broadcast unless it's on mute.

glunn
06-25-2012, 09:38 PM
Again, Butera comes up the bases loaded rather than the superior hitter (by comparison) Carroll. Let's go ahead and change this in the future Gardy.

Unless Doumit is injured, this seems like a managerial error.

Ultima Ratio
06-25-2012, 09:38 PM
Butera batting in that spot provides a better target for Liriano. Don't question it.
So they say.... so I've heard. :)

Ultima Ratio
06-25-2012, 09:39 PM
Why didn't Plouffe jump to make that catch?!?! ;)

glunn
06-25-2012, 09:40 PM
Yeah, those guys are terrible. I can't watch their broadcast unless it's on mute.

They are crybaby homers and lack any shred of objectivity. But since I live far away like you do, they are sometimes the only way to watch a game, and I share your need for the mute button when they start talking about "Paulie" not being respected and other monkey business.

Riverbrian
06-25-2012, 09:41 PM
Why isn't Doumit pinch hitting right here!?

I don't like Butera but thought the Butera bashing was a little thick tonight especially with Twins winning. However... Doumit would have been a great pinch hitting choice, I really hope it wasn't the Mauer playing DH thing. lol...

edavis0308
06-25-2012, 09:41 PM
hahaha, the replay clearly shows that Mauer waited until after the catch... these wsox guys....


Why isn't Doumit pinch hitting right here!?

Butera can save more than 4 runs behind the plate in the last two innings.

glunn
06-25-2012, 09:42 PM
Butera batting in that spot provides a better target for Liriano. Don't question it.

Good one. Does it matter at all that Butera did hit a double tonight and Doumit may have an injury?

Riverbrian
06-25-2012, 09:42 PM
I really want to crawl thru my TV and smuck Youklis in the head and yell... Hold the flipping bat right!!!

snepp
06-25-2012, 09:43 PM
I don't like Butera but thought the Butera bashing was a little thick tonight especially with Twins winning.

If everyone else does their job it doesn't matter how abysmal he is.

Dilligaf69
06-25-2012, 09:43 PM
I don't like Butera but thought the Butera bashing was a little thick tonight especially with Twins winning. However... Doumit would have been a great pinch hitting choice, I really hope it wasn't the Mauer playing DH thing. lol...

I agree Doumit should've PH..you still have Mauer, unless Doumit can't catch cuz of injury??

glunn
06-25-2012, 09:43 PM
A double play would be VERY sweet at this point. I wonder who will pitch the 9th.

edavis0308
06-25-2012, 09:43 PM
I don't like Butera but thought the Butera bashing was a little thick tonight especially with Twins winning. However... Doumit would have been a great pinch hitting choice, I really hope it wasn't the Mauer playing DH thing. lol...

Butera bashing? There's been more talk of Butera sunshine and rainbows and pots o' gold then Butera bashing.

Ultima Ratio
06-25-2012, 09:44 PM
I really hope it wasn't the Mauer playing DH thing. lol...
I didn't even think of that, but now see that that must be the reason.

The Greatest Poster Alive
06-25-2012, 09:44 PM
There's the Adam Dunn we all grew to love last year...

glunn
06-25-2012, 09:44 PM
Nice strikeout of crybaby Adam Dunn. Now let's strike out "Paulie".

The Greatest Poster Alive
06-25-2012, 09:45 PM
A double play would be VERY sweet at this point. I wonder who will pitch the 9th.

Gotta be Burton... My fantasy team is relying on it :D

NorthwestTwinsFan
06-25-2012, 09:46 PM
I wonder who will pitch the 9th.

I'm guessing Burton, unless the Twins add on a few runs (which would be nice), then they could with someone like Burnett or Gray.

glunn
06-25-2012, 09:47 PM
Gotta be Burton... My fantasy team is relying on it :D

I would be happy with that choice. I think that it's good that Burton is getting experience as a closer.

glunn
06-25-2012, 09:48 PM
Butera bashing? There's been more talk of Butera sunshine and rainbows and pots o' gold then Butera bashing.

I want a Butera tee shirt with his face superimposed on a leprechaun.

Riverbrian
06-25-2012, 09:49 PM
Butera bashing? There's been more talk of Butera sunshine and rainbows and pots o' gold then Butera bashing.

lol... I'll have to read back a few pages but I think someone was blaming Butera for the Sunshine.

Riverbrian
06-25-2012, 09:50 PM
I want a Butera tee shirt with his face superimposed on a leprechaun.

My Avatar is actually Drew Butera.

Jocko87
06-25-2012, 09:51 PM
I'm personally glad that Butera got the at bat there so we can continue this stimulating and highly educational debate.

Also I support Plouffsies opposite field approach lately, if he can remember how to pull pitches when he gets the chance (looking at you, baby jesus) we might have something.

edavis0308
06-25-2012, 09:51 PM
I want a Butera tee shirt with his face superimposed on a leprechaun.

That DOES sound like a pretty fantastic idea..

When that shirt is put to fruition, I fully expect my dollar royalty per shirt sold. What the hell will I do with $5?

glunn
06-25-2012, 09:52 PM
I would love to get some runs here -- for insurance and to wear out the White Sox bullpen. Also, it would be nice to give Plouffe another chance at a home run.

Kobs
06-25-2012, 09:54 PM
Good one. Does it matter at all that Butera did hit a double tonight and Doumit may have an injury?

Of course it matters, that double might be just the thing to get Butera's career OPS above .500.

glunn
06-25-2012, 09:54 PM
That DOES sound like a pretty fantastic idea..

When that shirt is put to fruition, I fully expect my dollar royalty per shirt sold. What the hell will I do with $5?

Is that $5 per shirt, or five shirts at $1?

glunn
06-25-2012, 09:55 PM
Of course it matters, that double might be just the thing to get Butera's career OPS above .500.

Good one, rookie. I am putting you down for three tee shirts.

Kobs
06-25-2012, 09:55 PM
When do teams start bringing in another infielder against Revere?

Riverbrian
06-25-2012, 09:57 PM
I'm not sure that Ben wasn't 5 for 5 tonight. Looked safe to me. Close but safe.

Riverbrian
06-25-2012, 09:58 PM
When do teams start bringing in another infielder against Revere?

lol... Ladies and gentlemen... Gene Mauch.

Ultima Ratio
06-25-2012, 09:59 PM
When do teams start bringing in another infielder against Revere?

That won't help. He's hitting off a tee right now, just beyond all infielders' grasps and right in front off the outfielders. Only thing is to bring in the OF, but then if he hits one in the gap we will see that elusive inside the park homer. ONly thing that would help is a rover, but Revere is hitting to all fields.

edavis0308
06-25-2012, 09:59 PM
Is that $5 per shirt, or five shirts at $1?

Five shirts will be sold at $X. I will get a dollar for each.

kydoty
06-25-2012, 10:00 PM
Congrats, Brittany Viola!

*google searches*

Ugh...does not want!

http://por-img.cimcontent.net/api/assets/bin-201206/88cf40503b72475ae087fe2656ced4c3.jpg

glunn
06-25-2012, 10:01 PM
I think that Morneau may need some rest -- he is looking terrible at the plate.

Ultima Ratio
06-25-2012, 10:01 PM
Morneau may need to see some time against AAA lefties to get some confidence, discipline and eye back.

glunn
06-25-2012, 10:02 PM
Congrats, Brittany Viola!

*google searches*

Ugh...does not want!

http://por-img.cimcontent.net/api/assets/bin-201206/88cf40503b72475ae087fe2656ced4c3.jpg

Her legs look very useful.

Riverbrian
06-25-2012, 10:02 PM
That won't help. He's hitting off a tee right now, just beyond all infielders' grasps and right in front off the outfielders. Only thing is to bring in the OF, but then if he hits one in the gap we will see that elusive inside the park homer. ONly thing that would help is a rover, but Revere is hitting to all fields.

I'd love it. His slugging would rise big time.

glunn
06-25-2012, 10:03 PM
OK, Burton, let's send these crybabies back to their hotel so that the whining can begin in earnest.

glunn
06-25-2012, 10:05 PM
Please do NOT walk A.J.

The Greatest Poster Alive
06-25-2012, 10:05 PM
Congrats, Brittany Viola!

*google searches*

Ugh...does not want!

http://por-img.cimcontent.net/api/assets/bin-201206/88cf40503b72475ae087fe2656ced4c3.jpg

wtf is pooling beneath her?

NorthwestTwinsFan
06-25-2012, 10:05 PM
You absolutely cannot walk someone with a 3-run lead in the ninth.

TwinsFanLV
06-25-2012, 10:06 PM
The reason Butera is playing is GARDENHIRE! Gardenhire and Ryan must go. Until that happens, none of the rest of this is worth discussing.

glunn
06-25-2012, 10:07 PM
You absolutely cannot walk someone with a 3-run lead in the ninth.

Maybe this is fate's way of setting up a divine double play.

NorthwestTwinsFan
06-25-2012, 10:09 PM
Maybe this is fate's way of setting up a divine double play.

Haha I hope so.

Ultima Ratio
06-25-2012, 10:10 PM
wtf is pooling beneath her?

I was thinking the same thing but didn't know how to broach the subject, especially in mixed company since I'm sure some of the female Twins faithful are viewing this board.

glunn
06-25-2012, 10:11 PM
I was thinking the same thing but didn't know how to broach the subject, especially in mixed company since I'm sure some the female Twins faithful are viewing this board.

Hopefully it is a reflection.

edavis0308
06-25-2012, 10:12 PM
The reason Butera is playing is GARDENHIRE! Gardenhire and Ryan must go. Until that happens, none of the rest of this is worth discussing.

I love fresh points of view!

Ultima Ratio
06-25-2012, 10:12 PM
7.5 back and on a roll to taking the tepid AL Central. Here we go....... Go Twins!

NorthwestTwinsFan
06-25-2012, 10:12 PM
Big win for the Twins. Now wouldn't it be great to sweep these guys?

glunn
06-25-2012, 10:12 PM
YES -- a very sweet win over the evil arch-rivals. Burton made it more exciting that I would like, but a win is a win.

Dilligaf69
06-25-2012, 10:15 PM
Not often you leave 24 runners on and still win.

PseudoSABR
06-25-2012, 10:16 PM
7.5 out. Here we go on a run, enabling us to get nothing for our trade chits and still have enough time to swoon into irrelevance by august 15th. Yay!

USAFChief
06-25-2012, 10:18 PM
Not often you leave 24 runners on and still win.

I don't have the box score in front of me, but I'm pretty confident the Twins didn't have 24 LOB tonight.

And nice win. The price of that Liriano extension just keeps going up, Ryan.

Dilligaf69
06-25-2012, 10:19 PM
I don't have the box score in front of me, but I'm pretty confident the Twins didn't have 24 LOB tonight.

And nice win. The price of that Liriano extension just keeps going up, Ryan.


I go by individual LOB but team LOB was around 14...still way to many!

snepp
06-25-2012, 10:20 PM
I don't have the box score in front of me, but I'm pretty confident the Twins didn't have 24 LOB tonight.

Typo? Meant 14?

Ultima Ratio
06-25-2012, 10:21 PM
I don't have the box score in front of me, but I'm pretty confident the Twins didn't have 24 LOB tonight.

And nice win. The price of that Liriano extension just keeps going up, Ryan.

You are correct, Dilligaf69 referred to individuals leaving runners on. Team LOB was only 13.

Ultima Ratio
06-25-2012, 10:22 PM
Where are you guys getting 14?

The number that need to improve from tonight's game is RISP 2-12 .... ouch.

Dilligaf69
06-25-2012, 10:22 PM
Typo? Meant 14?


It was actually 13 but if you go thru the boxscore it was 24....whatever!

NorthwestTwinsFan
06-25-2012, 10:23 PM
This thread seems pretty negative, considering the Twins just beat their arch rivals.

PseudoSABR
06-25-2012, 10:27 PM
This thread seems pretty negative, considering the Twins just beat their arch rivals.
Might have something to do with our overall record. Context matters. That's not to suggest that everyone isn't pleased with a win.

glunn
06-25-2012, 10:28 PM
This thread seems pretty negative, considering the Twins just beat their arch rivals.

I agree and will try to restore some karma by voting for Butera as a write in for the All Star game.

Ultima Ratio
06-25-2012, 10:28 PM
This thread seems pretty negative, considering the Twins just beat their arch rivals.
While I enjoy the win, I don't know if I can get too rosy until we've won the series and are getting close to being competitive in the central at least.

Ultima Ratio
06-25-2012, 10:30 PM
I agree and will try to restore some karma by voting for Butera as a write in for the All Star game.
Let's not celebrate the victory with barbiturates now... come on.

NorthwestTwinsFan
06-25-2012, 10:30 PM
Might have something to do with our overall record. Context matters. That's not to suggest that everyone isn't pleased with a win.

Yeah, I get that....every team goes through times like these. But it's going to be a long season if we're all complaining during both wins and losses.

kydoty
06-25-2012, 10:31 PM
To Whitesoxinteractive!

Oh wait, they privatized their boards. Nevermind.

glunn
06-25-2012, 10:32 PM
While I enjoy the win, I don't know if I can get too rosy until we've won the series and are getting close to being competitive in the central at least.

But if that does not happen, then you will have missed a fleeting opportunity for momentary joy.

I hope that we sweep, but am grabbing some joy tonight while it's a sure thing.

NorthwestTwinsFan
06-25-2012, 10:34 PM
But if that does not happen, then you will have missed a fleeting opportunity for momentary joy.

I hope that we sweep, but am grabbing some joy tonight while it's a sure thing.

Thank you. This is the point I was trying to make.

Ultima Ratio
06-25-2012, 10:35 PM
But if that does not happen, then you will have missed a fleeting opportunity for momentary joy.

I hope that we sweep, but am grabbing some joy tonight while it's a sure thing.
Well then, count me stoically pleased.

glunn
06-25-2012, 10:35 PM
To Whitesoxinteractive!

Oh wait, they privatized their boards. Nevermind.

You could try whinycrybabies.org.

IdahoPilgrim
06-25-2012, 10:39 PM
OK, I just got back from the game and read this thread. My advice is to lighten up, everyone! They won! Frankie pitched a decent game, the Twins got to Peavy a little bit early before he settled in, and in spite of poor hitting with RISP that could have put it out of reach, they still held on. And let's declare a general amnesty for Butera, just for 24 hours, for novelty sake if nothing else.

snepp
06-25-2012, 10:39 PM
You could try whinycrybabies.org.

It just redirects to WSI.

jokin
06-25-2012, 10:47 PM
I'm not sure that Ben wasn't 5 for 5 tonight. Looked safe to me. Close but safe.

I replayed it a few times, the ball was definitely in the air as Revere crossed the bag. The ump was a little biased toward raising the right arm a couple times time tonight. The play from Morneau to Carroll looked like that runner was safe, too.

SpiritofVodkaDave
06-25-2012, 10:48 PM
Can someone explain to me why the hell Butera was allowed to hit with the freaking bases loaded and Liriano already out of the game?!?!?!

It's one thing to give Butera (who literally might be the worst hitter in the history of baseball with 500+ PA) starts for some absurd reason like "He is the Latin Pitcher Whisperer," but to keep him in a 3 run game with the bases loaded...ugh...there is no excuse for that.

I'm happy the Twins won and all, but these are the decisions that will eventually burn them in the future, and if the Twins have any chance to get back into the race the margin for error lies somewhere between slim and none.

glunn
06-25-2012, 10:57 PM
Can someone explain to me why the hell Butera was allowed to hit with the freaking bases loaded and Liriano already out of the game?!?!?!

It's one thing to give Butera (who literally might be the worst hitter in the history of baseball with 500+ PA) starts for some absurd reason like "He is the Latin Pitcher Whisperer," but to keep him in a 3 run game with the bases loaded...ugh...there is no excuse for that.

I'm happy the Twins won and all, but these are the decisions that will eventually burn them in the future, and if the Twins have any chance to get back into the race the margin for error lies somewhere between slim and none.

Rumor has it that Doumit may have some minor injury. Or this might be a psychological warfare strategy to send a message to the White Sox that they are not good enough for the Twins to use a catcher who has a good bat.

jokin
06-25-2012, 11:02 PM
Can someone explain to me why the hell Butera was allowed to hit with the freaking bases loaded and Liriano already out of the game?!?!?!

It's one thing to give Butera (who literally might be the worst hitter in the history of baseball with 500+ PA) starts for some absurd reason like "He is the Latin Pitcher Whisperer," but to keep him in a 3 run game with the bases loaded...ugh...there is no excuse for that.

I'm happy the Twins won and all, but these are the decisions that will eventually burn them in the future, and if the Twins have any chance to get back into the race the margin for error lies somewhere between slim and none.

Listened to the press conference. I can count a half-dozen questions asked on this thread that should have been asked of Gardy, queston #1 is why Doumit didn't play, or at the very least, pinch hit in that situation. That was Managing 101 unless Doumit has an injury.

jokin
06-25-2012, 11:14 PM
Someone commented earlier on Plouffe's markedly changed approach at the plate lately, looking like a RH Joe Mauer going almost exclusively to the opposite field. It appears he is suffering from information overload- 1) he "knows" they are pitching him away, 2) they "know" that he knows it, 3) inject the Vavra-esque advice regimen for becoming a GB/singles hitter, and Voila!, you have the "new and dis-improved Plouffe", higher OBP, GB and OPP field rates, markedly lower SLG . 4) In the meanwhile, that defensive plate approach has him swinging and missing badly at pitches that he was routinely parking in the seats just 10 days ago.

I think it's time for yet another Parker-Slomo-Swing-Intervention Clinic.

snepp
06-25-2012, 11:22 PM
It's one thing to give Butera (who literally might be the worst hitter in the history of baseball with 500+ PA)

He literally isn't too far off. The joys of BaseballReference....

Since 1901, position players with more than 450 career plate appearances, Drew is tied for the 8th worst OPS+. And he's within spitting distance of sole possession of 3rd place.

one_eyed_jack
06-25-2012, 11:26 PM
I was at the game tonight. I was so happy to see a victory over the Whities and the end of a personal 8-game losing streak in Target Field visits, that I can't bring myself to get too worked up over Butera, the 883 blown chances to blow the doors off (OK, I'm exaggerating, but it seemed like that many as I was watching) or any of the other negatives raised, valid though they are.

And it was fun to see Good Frankie. I hope he keeps showing up.

USAFChief
06-26-2012, 12:06 AM
It's plausible Butera was left in to hit, with a 3 run lead, because he's a much better defensive catcher. Sort of like lots of people used to go bananas when Delmon wasn't swapped out for a better defensive outfielder with a lead in the late innings. It's also possible Doumit isn't 100 percent. It's also possible Gardy and/or his bench coach just didn't think of it, or they thought of it and said "nah...I gotta hunch here."

Hard to say.

I was sort of punching the radio at the time, though.

Let's get another tomorrow.

jokin
06-26-2012, 01:36 AM
I was at the game tonight. I was so happy to see a victory over the Whities and the end of a personal 8-game losing streak in Target Field visits, that I can't bring myself to get too worked up over Butera, the 883 blown chances to blow the doors off (OK, I'm exaggerating, but it seemed like that many as I was watching) or any of the other negatives raised, valid though they are.

And it was fun to see Good Frankie. I hope he keeps showing up.

I had confidence that you would do it. It looked more like Frankie the pitcher vs. Frankie the thrower...maybe there is something to this Butera Caddy thing after all...nah! Now, to win the series, Morneau has to follow through and get out of his funk against Floyd tomorrow. I'm thinking the team that reaches 9 runs first wins it, certainly more easily accomplished with Butera locked back up for another week in the bullpen. The Twins own Floyd (current Twins are batting .369/.420/.580/.1000), even Morneau, and Hendriks will need all the help he can get. They have to win tomorrow to get the series, because it seems likely that Blackie's recent luck runs out on Thursday against Sale.

Scheherezade
06-26-2012, 03:31 AM
this might be a psychological warfare strategy to send a message to the White Sox that they are not good enough for the Twins to use a catcher who has a good bat.

I like this explanation. =)

FrodaddyG
06-26-2012, 04:41 AM
Page loading speed, you mean?
Sure. Let's go with that.

SpiritofVodkaDave
06-26-2012, 08:01 AM
He literally isn't too far off. The joys of BaseballReference....

Since 1901, position players with more than 450 career plate appearances, Drew is tied for the 8th worst OPS+. And he's within spitting distance of sole possession of 3rd place.
Part of me hopes he ends up with enough professional At bats though to be included in the Baseball Reference voting system, which currently has Juan Castro as dead last of 1200 career hitters or so.

snepp
06-26-2012, 01:44 PM
Part of me hopes he ends up with enough professional At bats though to be included in the Baseball Reference voting system, which currently has Juan Castro as dead last of 1200 career hitters or so.

A very large part of me hopes that those plate appearances come in a different uniform.