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Parker Hageman
06-18-2012, 10:50 AM
Ripped from the front pages of Duh Magazine, Twins GM Terry Ryan tells ESPN.com's Buster Olney (http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/blog?name=olney_buster&id=8065932&_slug_=boston-red-sox-win-clubhouse-mess-mlb&action=login&appRedirect=http%3a%2f%2finsider.espn.go.com%2fmlb %2fblog%3fname%3dolney_buster%26id%3d8065932%26_sl ug_%3dboston-red-sox-win-clubhouse-mess-mlb) (Insider), that the organization is looking for more starting pitching.

The Twins rotation is carrying a hefty 6.06 ERA, highest in the AL, while allowing 1.69 home runs per nine innings pitched, the highest rate in all of baseball (extra disappointing since they play in a pitcher-friendly ballpark). What's more, they seem to be losing 1.3 starters per week. After losing PJ Walters and Carl Pavano, the Twins are in need of promoting for the minors once again or reaching into the bullpen for a spot start.

That, however, does not address the long term needs for the rotation and, as Olney alluded to, may require the Twins to trade Denard Span, Josh Willingham or Justin Morneau to get some adequate pitching.

ashburyjohn
06-18-2012, 11:21 AM
Ripped from the front pages of Duh Magazine

Yeah, pretty much. Another exclusive by Scoop Olney.

Rosterman
06-18-2012, 11:25 AM
I'll have to follow this Olney guy more closely. I didn't see this coming at all. I never thought it might come to trading players...what happened to buying them outright or filling the staff with 4th and 5th starter candidates from the sludges of AAAAers. I'm glad to read that Terry Ryan recognizes the Twins need, too, in this category. Thanks for asking Terry that question, Olney!

Boom Boom
06-18-2012, 11:36 AM
Ripped from the front pages of Duh Magazine, Twins GM Terry Ryan tells ESPN.com's Buster Olney (http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/blog?name=olney_buster&id=8065932&_slug_=boston-red-sox-win-clubhouse-mess-mlb&action=login&appRedirect=http%3a%2f%2finsider.espn.go.com%2fmlb %2fblog%3fname%3dolney_buster%26id%3d8065932%26_sl ug_%3dboston-red-sox-win-clubhouse-mess-mlb) (Insider), that the organization is looking for more starting pitching.

The Twins rotation is carrying a hefty 6.06 ERA, highest in the AL, while allowing 1.69 home runs per nine innings pitched, the highest rate in all of baseball (extra disappointing since they play in a pitcher-friendly ballpark). What's more, they seem to be losing 1.3 starters per week. After losing PJ Walters and Carl Pavano, the Twins are in need of promoting for the minors once again or reaching into the bullpen for a spot start.

That, however, does not address the long term needs for the rotation and, as Olney alluded to, may require the Twins to trade Denard Span, Josh Willingham or Justin Morneau to get some adequate pitching.

How long before the myth that Target Field is pitcher-friendly wears off?

Any ballpark where the Twins are taking almost half of all plate appearances will look pitcher-friendly.

CDog
06-18-2012, 01:48 PM
How long before the myth that Target Field is pitcher-friendly wears off?

Any ballpark where the Twins are taking almost half of all plate appearances will look pitcher-friendly.

Congratulations on being the first one to think of that! Enjoy the enormous bonus I'm sure you'll get. If only anyone...ANYONE...could have considered that and done some analysis that controls for teams. That'd be awesome.

Winston Smith
06-18-2012, 02:07 PM
Just think how much better the Twins hitters would look facing the Twins pitchers. Joe might even hit some homeruns!

Highabove
06-18-2012, 02:07 PM
30 million came off the books last year. Only 3 million of it was spent on upgrading the starting pitching.
Ryan made his own bed, now he has to sleep in it.

Scheherezade
06-18-2012, 02:15 PM
30 million came off the books last year. Only 3 million of it was spent on upgrading the starting pitching.
Ryan made his own bed, now he has to sleep in it.

Do you think any GM would reduce his or her payroll for competitive reasons?

GMs want to spend; owners want to save.

Boom Boom
06-18-2012, 02:24 PM
Congratulations on being the first one to think of that! Enjoy the enormous bonus I'm sure you'll get. If only anyone...ANYONE...could have considered that and done some analysis that controls for teams. That'd be awesome.

Thank you. I accept your apology.

Highabove
06-18-2012, 02:27 PM
Ryan has stated that he can ask Pohlad for more Money. There were moderate price free agents for 1.5 to 3 million more.
Instead, Ryan went dumpster diving and ended up throwing away three million dollars.
Its very similar to good consumer shopping. Buy cheap and risk throwing away your money. Pay a little more and get a quality Product.

Teflon
06-18-2012, 03:00 PM
Ryan has stated that he can ask Pohlad for more Money. There were moderate price free agents for 1.5 to 3 million more.
Instead, Ryan went dumpster diving and ended up throwing away three million dollars.
Its very similar to good consumer shopping. Buy cheap and risk throwing away your money. Pay a little more and get a quality Product.

We must have the Flowbee (http://www.flowbee.com/) of starting pitching staffs, then.

Riverbrian
06-18-2012, 03:42 PM
Do you think any GM would reduce his or her payroll for competitive reasons?

GMs want to spend; owners want to save.

Disclaimer: I have no inside information.

I disagree, Cuz, in my job and any job working with payroll. You have to know when to spend and when not to. I don't believe it is the job of the GM to just ask for the Max and start spending it and do it again next year. I think GM's and the Team President's get to stay in those positions cuz they can be prudent at the proper juncture.

I really do believe that it's completely possible that Terry Ryan suggested a payroll cut to ownership based on the Free Agents available and the current state of the Twins organization.

I also believe that the money could come back if the window opens up and the team looks like they could contend.

I'm hopeful that Terry Ryan has a plan beyond this year. Signing Edwin Jackson for a year and 10 million may not been part of the long term plan.

We are rebuilding... We are not re-loading. If I was an owner... I'd appreciate a sensible approach to the finances. However, If I was owner... I'd be staffing the squad myself. My GM would do the paper work... lol...

YourHouseIsMyHouse
06-18-2012, 04:48 PM
Why would we want more pitching? This is stupid.

IdahoPilgrim
06-18-2012, 05:14 PM
Disclaimer: I have no inside information.

I disagree, Cuz, in my job and any job working with payroll. You have to know when to spend and when not to. I don't believe it is the job of the GM to just ask for the Max and start spending it and do it again next year. I think GM's and the Team President's get to stay in those positions cuz they can be prudent at the proper juncture.

I really do believe that it's completely possible that Terry Ryan suggested a payroll cut to ownership based on the Free Agents available and the current state of the Twins organization.

I also believe that the money could come back if the window opens up and the team looks like they could contend.

I'm hopeful that Terry Ryan has a plan beyond this year. Signing Edwin Jackson for a year and 10 million may not been part of the long term plan.

We are rebuilding... We are not re-loading. If I was an owner... I'd appreciate a sensible approach to the finances. However, If I was owner... I'd be staffing the squad myself. My GM would do the paper work... lol...

Thank you. We've got to get past this "if we only spent more money" mindset. $95-100M is more than sufficient to put together a team that contends if it is spent wisely. And if the money is not spent wisely, it doesn't matter how big your budget it.

StormJH1
06-19-2012, 09:07 AM
You have to know when to spend and when not to. I don't believe it is the job of the GM to just ask for the Max and start spending it and do it again next year. I think GM's and the Team President's get to stay in those positions cuz they can be prudent at the proper juncture.


I would buy that, to a degree, if it weren't the case that the payroll amount is also strongly dictated by revenues and the success of the team. If the team is awful and struggling to get 20,000 to 25,000 into the park for large chunks of the season, ownership isn't going to be super-thrilled about hiking up the budget 10 million dollars next year. They might actually go in the opposite direction, or hold steady.

If you have a glaring need at starting pitching, and don't address it, there are going to be consequences. By "address it", I don't mean signing Jason Marquis. Even though some bad luck was also involved (Pavano's woes, Baker's surprise or undetected season-ending injury), they should have viewed the loss of Kyle Gibson the same as if Baker, Liriano or any other starter had gone down, since he was supposed to contend for the rotation.

I don't want to criticize their off season too much because I think it was successful in a lot of ways (signing Willingham, stockpiling draft picks in lieu of retaining Kubel and Cuddy). The seeds of failure were planted long before the 2011-12 offseason. And I'm afraid for the future of the starting pitching because the GM has repeatedly said that he does not believe in signing outside free agents, and they just drafted a bunch of relief pitchers (except for Barrios, who is very raw).

James
06-19-2012, 09:17 AM
Thank you. We've got to get past this "if we only spent more money" mindset. $95-100M is more than sufficient to put together a team that contends if it is spent wisely. And if the money is not spent wisely, it doesn't matter how big your budget it.
What are you talking about? More money always means more wins. Just ask the Phillies, or the Red Sox...

gunnarthor
06-19-2012, 09:56 AM
What are you talking about? More money always means more wins. Just ask the Phillies, or the Red Sox...

While money doesn't always mean more wins, it does make it easier to compete and get around mistakes. For instance, the 2010 Twins survived Morneau's injury in large part b/c they could afford to use a bench spot for Thome. They also spent around 12m to sign Pavano and Hudson. The 02-06 Twins never got to have an assets like that.

gil4
06-19-2012, 11:07 AM
Congratulations on being the first one to think of that! Enjoy the enormous bonus I'm sure you'll get. If only anyone...ANYONE...could have considered that and done some analysis that controls for teams. That'd be awesome.

The park factors compare the Twins at home vs. Twins on the road and Twins opponents at Target vs. the opponents while Twins are the visiting team.

So someone did consider that...in the early 80's (or earlier) when they started measuring that.

CDog
06-19-2012, 02:10 PM
The park factors compare the Twins at home vs. Twins on the road and Twins opponents at Target vs. the opponents while Twins are the visiting team.

So someone did consider that...in the early 80's (or earlier) when they started measuring that.

Bummer...I guess he's gonna have to give back that bonus. Hope he didn't spend it already.

Thrylos
06-19-2012, 07:24 PM
I really do believe that it's completely possible that Terry Ryan suggested a payroll cut to ownership based on the Free Agents available and the current state of the Twins organization. .

And then he re-signed Matt Capps to an above market contract and signed Marquis to that contract too.

It is ok to dream. But the reality is that the interim GM is well past his prime as well...

Mchans24
06-19-2012, 08:44 PM
He would never admit it but Terry Ryan knew competing this year was a long shot even with a healthy pitching staff and a mediocre Liriano and Pavano. He made some outstanding signings with Willingham, Doumitt and Carrol. He missed on Marquis, big deal. He has a ton of pieces to do what he has always been good at, fleecing other teams in trades. Oh I forgot Capps, who will also bring back a young prospect. Patience people, Ryan is looking at 2014. They will add one free agent pitcher this offseason but payroll will remain where it is now with Pavano and Baker coming off the books. Let's hope Gibson comes back strong and Diamond becomes a legit # 3. Trade a couple guys this year to find that power front of the rotation prospect sitting in AA for someone else right now. Sign a quality free agent this offseason or next and we are back in action for 2014. Call me an optimist but i believe in Terry Ryan.