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View Full Version : Revere Still Not Appreciated!



Fanatic Jack
06-13-2012, 10:45 AM
Don't look now but outfielder Ben Revere has silenced many of his harshest critics in his return to the Twins lineup. Revere was recalled on May 17th and has played almost every day with an occasional day off against LH pitching. He is hitting .340/.369/.425 and has scored 17 runs in 27 games. Revere still needs to draw more walks (4) and work on his bunting skills. However it's important to remember Revere has only had 226 career at bats in Rochester. He basically jumped from New Britain (.AA) to the majors last season. The Twins are 15-9 since his return and he has energized a lineup that looked pretty bad early in the season. Who said chemistry is not important to a ballclub? Revere should of never been sent down to Rochester in the first place but because management refused to move Span, he was the odd man out. GM Terry Ryan actually decided to go with retreads like Clete Thomas and Erik Komatsu in right field before giving Revere another shot. I still argue Revere should be playing in centerfield and Span should be moved to right but it will never happen. How Span has risen to king status in this organization is truly mind boggling? He is an excellent lead off hitter but not a better defensive centerfielder than Revere. Revere has a terrible arm and right field is the wrong place to hide it. Either way it appears Revere is still not appreciated for what he brings to the team on a daily basis.

James
06-13-2012, 10:56 AM
I agree with you on some points. He is hitting well. Really well in fact and he has been really fun to watch. He does need to draw more walks, but I don't think that is completely his fault. Everyone in the league knows that he is not going to hit it out of the park. Knowing that, I think many pitchers are just challenging him by throwing strikes. If he keeps up this kind of batting average, pitcher will probably stop having that mentality and he'll start drawing more walks.

I also agree, he shouldn't be in RF. But, I don't think that they should move Span either. Span is great in center. Revere is good too, but if you watch them you can see that Span reads the ball really well. Revere doesn't read the ball as well as Span, but he makes up for because he's so damn fast. I know this has been said before, but Revere would be best in LF. His arm wouldn't be that much of a problem there and a LF/CF combo of Revere/Span would cover a lot of ground. It is Willingham that needs to move, not Span.

Fanatic Jack
06-13-2012, 11:03 AM
James,

I disagree the best place for Span is right field because he has a good arm. Revere saves the Twins more runs in centerfield and Gardy should do what is best for the TEAM. However he is scared of upsetting Span and it's rediculous.

Seth Stohs
06-13-2012, 11:05 AM
I agree that it would be great if Willingham would have been in RF with Span in CF and Revere in LF.

Revere has been terrific since his recall. I don't think you'd find anyone who would disagree with that. I don't think anything has changed in his 'scouting report' and that's OK. When his BA is at .340, obviously the OBP is terrific. When the BA is at .270, the OBP will be subpar. I certainly hope he continues to hit this well.

Obie
06-13-2012, 11:39 AM
Span is overrated. He is good not great as either a center fielder or as a leadoff hitter. He has average range and an average arm for a centerfielder, and he ranks toward the middle of all leadoff hitters in the AL in OBP (6th) and OPS (9th). Overall, he is an average center fielder and an average leadoff hitter.

Scheherezade
06-13-2012, 11:47 AM
Revere even held a runner or two from advancing to third base on a single yesterday. He may not have the arm, but he can charge the ball and make up enough of the difference to scare runners.

Love Revere, I'm glad he's in the lineup on a daily basis because of a reason other than injury.

Turd Furgeson
06-13-2012, 01:10 PM
I don't think Revere scares anyone with his arm. On a 20-80 scale, Revere probably has a 20-25 arm and Span a 45-50 arm. Span's arm is noticeably better. I don't think you need a great arm in center, but you do need something there to challenge runners. Revere covers a ton of ground but with the two of them together I think you want Span in center and Revere in left field because as another said, Span reads the ball off the bat better.

Shane Wahl
06-13-2012, 01:23 PM
Span is overrated. He is good not great as either a center fielder or as a leadoff hitter. He has average range and an average arm for a centerfielder, and he ranks toward the middle of all leadoff hitters in the AL in OBP (6th) and OPS (9th). Overall, he is an average center fielder and an average leadoff hitter.

Can you or anyone tell me where one finds comparative statistics by lineup position!? I don't understand how I am not finding those.

Riverbrian
06-13-2012, 01:38 PM
I'm one of the biggest Revere supporters I know. I have been bummed out since he lost his supposed starting job in LF about a week before the start of the season. Didn't agree with it then because I see Revere as a sparkplug and his skill set is valuable.

With that said... I'm not going to pump my chest out and say...Look I was right cuz he's hitting .340.

Revere could have a tailspin in the future and if he does have one... I'll be ready for it... But my face will not turn red in embarrassment and say I was wrong.

I've seen enough... The Kid can play. Too Much is made of his arm and not enough is made of his speed and energy. The pressure that he can put on defenses from the speed factor alone is huge. Reaching base on infield grounders. The Threat of the bunt single. The High Contact rate... and the fastballs that Mauer and Willingham will see with him on the basepaths in front of them. The Defense... The Somersualts... The Whole package... The Guy is a plus player and I don't care if the extra base hits every come.

I'd put him in left but it doesn't matter to me. As long as Span and Revere are together in the outfield. Ground will be covered. I just don't want an outfield with Willingham and Doumit in the OF together. OF Range is a much bigger issue than Arm strength.

The Twins were wrong to make Revere a 4th OF in the first place. I'll feel that way if he was hitting .340 or .240. On this club... He should have had a job.

Shane Wahl
06-13-2012, 01:52 PM
I'm one of the biggest Revere supporters I know. I have been bummed out since he lost his supposed starting job in LF about a week before the start of the season. Didn't agree with it then because I see Revere as a sparkplug and his skill set is valuable.

With that said... I'm not going to pump my chest out and say...Look I was right cuz he's hitting .340.

Revere could have a tailspin in the future and if he does have one... I'll be ready for it... But my face will not turn red in embarrassment and say I was wrong.

I've seen enough... The Kid can play. Too Much is made of his arm and not enough is made of his speed and energy. The pressure that he can put on defenses from the speed factor alone is huge. Reaching base on infield grounders. The Threat of the bunt single. The High Contact rate... and the fastballs that Mauer and Willingham will see with him on the basepaths in front of them. The Defense... The Somersualts... The Whole package... The Guy is a plus player and I don't care if the extra base hits every come.

I'd put him in left but it doesn't matter to me. As long as Span and Revere are together in the outfield. Ground will be covered. I just don't want an outfield with Willingham and Doumit in the OF together. OF Range is a much bigger issue than Arm strength.

The Twins were wrong to make Revere a 4th OF in the first place. I'll feel that way if he was hitting .340 or .240. On this club... He should have had a job.


Yes to all of this, though hitting .240 would make him Rochester-bound in my view.

I do have a question for you though. Let's assume this production continues. Does Revere bring back more in a trade than Span?

James
06-13-2012, 01:53 PM
I'm one of the biggest Revere supporters I know. I have been bummed out since he lost his supposed starting job in LF about a week before the start of the season. Didn't agree with it then because I see Revere as a sparkplug and his skill set is valuable.

With that said... I'm not going to pump my chest out and say...Look I was right cuz he's hitting .340.

Revere could have a tailspin in the future and if he does have one... I'll be ready for it... But my face will not turn red in embarrassment and say I was wrong.

I've seen enough... The Kid can play. Too Much is made of his arm and not enough is made of his speed and energy. The pressure that he can put on defenses from the speed factor alone is huge. Reaching base on infield grounders. The Threat of the bunt single. The High Contact rate... and the fastballs that Mauer and Willingham will see with him on the basepaths in front of them. The Defense... The Somersualts... The Whole package... The Guy is a plus player and I don't care if the extra base hits every come.

I'd put him in left but it doesn't matter to me. As long as Span and Revere are together in the outfield. Ground will be covered. I just don't want an outfield with Willingham and Doumit in the OF together. OF Range is a much bigger issue than Arm strength.

The Twins were wrong to make Revere a 4th OF in the first place. I'll feel that way if he was hitting .340 or .240. On this club... He should have had a job.
I completely agree that he should be playing every day. No question about that in my mind. I just think he should be playing every day in LF. That's all. In my mind though, he is quite possibly the most fun player to watch. Definitely on the team, possibly in the league. He adds so much excitement to the game.

Shane Wahl
06-13-2012, 01:58 PM
Beating CDog to it! There is some issue involving both Revere and Gardenhire not liking Revere in LF during spring training (you know, this team makes significant decisions based off of freaking spring training).

James
06-13-2012, 01:58 PM
Yes to all of this, though hitting .240 would make him Rochester-bound in my view.

I do have a question for you though. Let's assume this production continues. Does Revere bring back more in a trade than Span?
I would have to say that he wouldn't bring as much. Span has been very consistent over the years and a team would know what they are getting. Revere is a wild card. He could give you this type of production forever, or the production could fall off. Span would cost a little more up front, but if Revere keeps playing like this, his salary could get more expensive than Span's during the arbitration years. I think if a team were really pushing for something, they would want to make sure they're getting something for the prospects they are giving up.

CDog
06-13-2012, 03:05 PM
Beating CDog to it! There is some issue involving both Revere and Gardenhire not liking Revere in LF during spring training (you know, this team makes significant decisions based off of freaking spring training).

Is there some way to file suit for "territory infringement" or whatever it is they call it that the Giants use to keep the A's out of San Jose?

James Richter
06-13-2012, 03:50 PM
Can you or anyone tell me where one finds comparative statistics by lineup position!? I don't understand how I am not finding those.
League splits broken down by batting order, position, whatever else you could want: http://www.baseball-reference.com/leagues/split.cgi?t=b&lg=AL&year=2012
Or you can use the pull-down menus on the ESPN site, like so: http://espn.go.com/mlb/stats/batting/_/split/109/league/al/sort/onBasePct/minpa/150
Others?

Shane Wahl
06-13-2012, 04:05 PM
League splits broken down by batting order, position, whatever else you could want: http://www.baseball-reference.com/leagues/split.cgi?t=b&lg=AL&year=2012
Or you can use the pull-down menus on the ESPN site, like so: http://espn.go.com/mlb/stats/batting/_/split/109/league/al/sort/onBasePct/minpa/150
Others?

Thank you! I never even thought of trying ESPN.

YourHouseIsMyHouse
06-13-2012, 05:17 PM
Span is overrated. He is good not great as either a center fielder or as a leadoff hitter. He has average range and an average arm for a centerfielder, and he ranks toward the middle of all leadoff hitters in the AL in OBP (6th) and OPS (9th). Overall, he is an average center fielder and an average leadoff hitter.

Believe what you want, but fangraphs disagrees. http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/whos-the-most-underrated-player-in-baseball/

PMKI
06-13-2012, 05:30 PM
They played Ben a good amount in left last season didn't they? I remember one game there was a foul ball hit near me at a game and he came flying out of nowhere to catch the ball. Oh and when do you guys think he hits his first homer if ever? Not inside-the-parker.

ashburyjohn
06-13-2012, 07:03 PM
Oh and when do you guys think he hits his first homer if ever? Not inside-the-parker.

Old Timers Game, 2032. Blyleven will throw him a meatball from his walker just for grins.

Obie
06-13-2012, 07:46 PM
Believe what you want, but fangraphs disagrees. http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/whos-the-most-underrated-player-in-baseball/

I have to confess I haven't a clue what he's talking about. He appears to make numerous assumptions
in choosing which data to use, what to add to what, etc. Bottom line, the folks on his most underrated list compared with his "least underrated" seem to say that up is down and down is up. His most underrated include a wholly mundane group while his "least underrated" (he couldn't quite dare to call them overrated) essentially consists of a number of MVP candidates. I'm not convinced.

CDog
06-13-2012, 11:02 PM
They played Ben a good amount in left last season didn't they? I remember one game there was a foul ball hit near me at a game and he came flying out of nowhere to catch the ball. Oh and when do you guys think he hits his first homer if ever? Not inside-the-parker.

Parts or all of 13 games for a total of 112 1/3 innings.

Riverbrian
06-13-2012, 11:05 PM
Yes to all of this, though hitting .240 would make him Rochester-bound in my view.

I do have a question for you though. Let's assume this production continues. Does Revere bring back more in a trade than Span?

Yeah probably Rochester bound with that number.

On the question you've asked... My opinion is no. Deadline trades is all about acquiring vets. Teams going for a title don't want the youthful Carlos Gomez type mistakes in key moments. Now if we were to trade Revere to a team like the Cubs or Padres... Maybe...

In the end Span is a good mix of experience and youth and an attractive contract. That contract is worth a decent player alone.

Riverbrian
06-13-2012, 11:13 PM
They played Ben a good amount in left last season didn't they? I remember one game there was a foul ball hit near me at a game and he came flying out of nowhere to catch the ball. Oh and when do you guys think he hits his first homer if ever? Not inside-the-parker.

I believe that he will have to cool down first. His swing will get a little off... He will Slump a bit start flying out more often than he should and then Bam... It won't be a 320 foot homer down the line. He will catch one about 400 feet. Not only will he hit his first one in a month or so. He will follow it up with a homer the next day and end up with 3 in a weeks time. Then he will get back to normal and start slapping again. His falling average will stabilize and then he will finish the season with a hot streak raising the average back up. I think he finishes at .330 and 4 HR's... 1 inside the park.

Wouldn't you just fall over in shock if I nail this elaborate prediction.

glunn
06-13-2012, 11:37 PM
I think you want Span in center and Revere in left field because as another said, Span reads the ball off the bat better.

People keep saying that Span reads the ball better, but I was at a game in Anaheim this year where Span took a terrible path to a ball at the wall, barely got to it, then dropped it. It seemed to me at the time that Revere would have easily caught that one. Small sample size, but it made an impression.

Mauerzy4Prez
06-14-2012, 08:50 AM
[QUOTE=Riverbrian;24772]Yeah probably Rochester bound with that number.

Would he really be Rochester bound hitting at a .240 BA? The only reason I ask that question is because of our current starting short stop Mr. Brian Dozier, A.K.A. "The Bull Dozier" (I love calling him that) has a .226 BA with a .246 OBP right now. I know they aren't the exact same player, and Dozier doesn't have the same level of MLB experience, but honestly right now even if Revere slumped for a while, I think he is one of those guys that needs to be in the lineup every day.