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J-Dog Dungan
06-05-2012, 10:28 AM
With the Twins taking outfielder Byron Buxton with the #2 overall pick yesterday, the take I took from that is that Span is not long for this team, and that the Twins wanted to draft an outfielder that could take over for him after a few years of Revere in center.

By all means, I am not saying that Span isn't a good player or not worth the Twins keeping to build around. But when you are in the stages of rebuilding, you trade away your good players to get good prospects for the future.

With my prediction of this meaning that Span will be traded within the next few years, who should the Twins be looking to get a good deal from? In other words, who has the farm system necessary, as well as the need for a solid center fielder, for the Twins to be interested in trading Span to?

Shane Wahl
06-05-2012, 10:33 AM
Or Ben Revere is the guy traded . . .

Thrylos
06-05-2012, 10:35 AM
Buxton is 4-5 years away. By then Span, if still around, would be past his prime and be close to gone.

StormJH1
06-05-2012, 10:39 AM
It may be that Denard Span is "not long for this team", but Byron Buxton has little or nothing to do with that. We're probably 3-5 years away from Buxton becoming a viable MLB starter, which of course is never a guarantee to begin with. Span is 28 years old, and under contract through 2014 with a team option for 2015. And with all the bad contracts the Twins gave out, an average of about $3 million a year for solid lead-off hitter and CF is hardly a burden, even with the concussion issues included.

So yes, the Twins could look at Span in his early 30's and opt to go with Buxton instead, but that's years away. Plus, I wouldn't assume the organization has completely written off Ben Revere, despite his obvious limitations. He plays at a position where range and defensive ability can justify a below average bat, so it's feasible that he gets his OBP up and perhaps learns how to put down a bunt, and could still figure into their future plans.

Span and Willingham are the only two guys that I feel like could realistically be moved for anything of value, both because they're good players and because they have favorable contracts. That's not to say that other people won't also be moved, but c'mon, no team is giving us decent prospects for the likes of Pavano or Capps.

J-Dog Dungan
06-05-2012, 10:40 AM
I suppose; but it still shows that the Twins aren't happy with the depth in the outfield in their system, which I think means that someone is going to be traded.

PMKI
06-05-2012, 10:43 AM
Or you are just supposed to go with the BPA not draft for need. I don't think the pick of Buxton reflects on the big league club at all.

J-Dog Dungan
06-05-2012, 10:43 AM
Span and Willingham are the only two guys that I feel like could realistically be moved for anything of value, both because they're good players and because they have favorable contracts. That's not to say that other people won't also be moved, but c'mon, no team is giving us decent prospects for the likes of Pavano or Capps.

I can see the Twins using Capps enough to pump up the overrated Save statistic and then sell him to someone who is desperate for help in their bullpen and is looking for that "last piece" needed for them to contend. On the other hand, I have no idea how the Twins trade Pavano with the season that he is currently having. Span has the contract that people are willing to absorb to trade for, but not so much for the contract of Willingham.

spideyo
06-05-2012, 10:46 AM
I think by the time Buxton makes it to the big leagues (if he ever does), Span will either have been traded, or been moved out of CF. Of course, who knows if Buxton will even be playing CF by that point

SweetOne69
06-05-2012, 10:48 AM
As PMKI stated, Baseball is the one sport where you don't draft for need. You take the best player available as it will be 2-6 years before they reach the big club.

MidwestMeat
06-05-2012, 11:48 AM
Hi guys, been keeping up with the forum for a few weeks but didn't register until today. By far the best Twins forum I have seen, so cheers. Anyway...

Seems like our outfield prospect list is getting crowded. Inevitably at LEAST one of them won't pan out to the level that we thought. Do we make our best guess and start dealing for other needs (pitching), or do we let them fight it out and eat the present dealing value of the ones that don't end up contributing?

Seth Stohs
06-05-2012, 11:53 AM
There is no relationship between the Twins taking Buxton and Denard Span.

Mr. Ed
06-05-2012, 11:58 AM
Buxton is 4-5 years away. By then Span, if still around, would be past his prime and be close to gone.

You're optimistic on 4-5 years. These are the Twins.

This year: GCL IF he's signed, else he plays GCL NEXT year.

Then Eliz

Then Beloit-maybe


3 years gone already in this scenario if Buxton doesn't get signed until late.

roger
06-05-2012, 12:00 PM
With the Twins taking outfielder Byron Buxton with the #2 overall pick yesterday, the take I took from that is that Span is not long for this team, and that the Twins wanted to draft an outfielder that could take over for him after a few years of Revere in center.

By all means, I am not saying that Span isn't a good player or not worth the Twins keeping to build around. But when you are in the stages of rebuilding, you trade away your good players to get good prospects for the future.

With my prediction of this meaning that Span will be traded within the next few years, who should the Twins be looking to get a good deal from? In other words, who has the farm system necessary, as well as the need for a solid center fielder, for the Twins to be interested in trading Span to?

I expect there is one person who doesn't agree with everyone's assumption that the Twins are beginning a rebuilding process that will last several years. That person is Mr. Ryan. I expect he sees the Twins differently than most of us do. He sees a team that needs a few adjustments and with some good health will compete next year. With that in mind, I expect we won't see all the moves in July that everyone is expecting. That includes Span and Revere likely staying with the Twins beyond this year.

Rosterman
06-05-2012, 12:00 PM
It just gives the Twins more depth in the system. If at some point you need to trade for a starter, you can trade a Revere or a Hicks or a Benson because you stil have x-y-z in the system. Or 3-4 years from now,mm you can trade Buxton even up for another team's #1 draft pick (a pitcher) from the previous year (remember Young for Garza). Right away, you have a bargaining chip that YOU paid $6 million for and if you ever do trade him, you expect to get that back. If he makes anyone expendable in 4-5 years, it would be Revere, who would be 28-29 and entering free agency.

cr9617
06-05-2012, 12:10 PM
One thing has nothing to do with the other. They took the best guy on the board

James Richter
06-05-2012, 12:35 PM
It makes it more likely that Span will walk as a FA in 2015 or 2016, depending on how Buxton, Hicks, Benson, et al progress.

With Benson's setback this spring, I would think the Twins would be hesitant to deal Span, Willingham or Revere in 2012. All of those guys are under team control through at least 2014. When Benson and/or Hicks are ready to stick in the Bigs, then we might see one of the current OFs moved. Until then, the $12M or so those guys are going to cost in 2013 is a pretty good price for a quality starting outfield, even if you are rebuilding.

spideyo
06-05-2012, 12:49 PM
Hey, Buxton is 10-1 as a pitcher, so there's that

SweetOne69
06-05-2012, 01:02 PM
You're optimistic on 4-5 years. These are the Twins.

This year: GCL IF he's signed, else he plays GCL NEXT year.

Then Eliz

Then Beloit-maybe


3 years gone already in this scenario if Buxton doesn't get signed until late.

Or maybe he is as polished as Mauer and is starting in 2015.

ashburyjohn
06-05-2012, 01:23 PM
Or maybe he is as polished as Mauer and is starting in 2015.

Well, Mauer was born into a baseball family and competed as a youth at a higher level of competition than Buxton, whose father seems to have topped out in slow-pitch leagues. If Buxton has unusual polish I don't know where he would have gotten it. However, it is possible he has high aptitude and coachability to go with his talent, so 2015 is hardly impossible. Can he learn to hit the quality breaking ball? That's always the question with a high schooler.

Curt
06-05-2012, 03:46 PM
Right now, he's the next Willie Mays. I hope to see him in 2014. Possible re-evaluation to come...

Jerr
06-05-2012, 05:22 PM
A second on the "way to go, guys" re: this site! I find so much to read here, I don't post as much as I have on other sites:o
And welcome to the new guy and all those that will follow!

twinsnorth49
06-05-2012, 06:13 PM
Buxton himself could become a valuable trade piece for an area of need when he gets closer to being big league ready, who knows but they did take the best player available, that's kind of a no-brainer.

alarp33
06-05-2012, 09:13 PM
With the Twins taking outfielder Byron Buxton with the #2 overall pick yesterday, the take I took from that is that Span is not long for this team, and that the Twins wanted to draft an outfielder that could take over for him after a few years of Revere in center.


You cannot be serious? I understand some people are new to how the MLB draft works, but this draft pick has ZERO effect on Denard Span.

glunn
06-05-2012, 09:43 PM
Hey, Buxton is 10-1 as a pitcher, so there's that

And he has good velocity, so maybe they should try him as a pitcher-outfielder. It worked for Babe Ruth, at least while he was young.

glunn
06-05-2012, 09:44 PM
Hi guys, been keeping up with the forum for a few weeks but didn't register until today. By far the best Twins forum I have seen, so cheers. Anyway...

Seems like our outfield prospect list is getting crowded. Inevitably at LEAST one of them won't pan out to the level that we thought. Do we make our best guess and start dealing for other needs (pitching), or do we let them fight it out and eat the present dealing value of the ones that don't end up contributing?

Welcome new member!

TwinsGuy55422
06-05-2012, 10:17 PM
Or maybe he is as polished as Mauer and is starting in 2015.

Exactly. I know that a lot of us are frustrated with how slowly the Twins move certain prospects through the system, but when they have an elite, polished, MLB-ready prospect they have shown the propensity to bring them up at an early age. Mauer was 20 when he made his first MLB start at one of the most complicated and demanding positions in the game. They even moved a quality catcher in Pierzynski to make room for him. We obviously have no idea how quickly Buxton will develop, but I don't think the Twins will automatically keep him in the minors until he is 23-24 years old if he is showing he is ready for the show at 20-21 years old.

glunn
06-05-2012, 10:28 PM
Exactly. I know that a lot of us are frustrated with how slowly the Twins move certain prospects through the system, but when they have an elite, polished, MLB-ready prospect they have shown the propensity to bring them up at an early age. Mauer was 20 when he made his first MLB start at one of the most complicated and demanding positions in the game. They even moved a quality catcher in Pierzynski to make room for him. We obviously have no idea how quickly Buxton will develop, but I don't think the Twins will automatically keep him in the minors until he is 23-24 years old if he is showing he is ready for the show at 20-21 years old.

Another excellent point. Maybe he is a phenom and will indeed become the next Willie Mays. Willie took about 4 years to make it to the show. There is at least a chance that Buxton will have a HOF career -- he clearly has great tools, but it remains to be seen whether he is one of the lucky few who can put it all together. His high upside gives reason to be optimistic.

righty8383
06-05-2012, 11:23 PM
Exactly. I know that a lot of us are frustrated with how slowly the Twins move certain prospects through the system, but when they have an elite, polished, MLB-ready prospect they have shown the propensity to bring them up at an early age. Mauer was 20 when he made his first MLB start at one of the most complicated and demanding positions in the game. They even moved a quality catcher in Pierzynski to make room for him. We obviously have no idea how quickly Buxton will develop, but I don't think the Twins will automatically keep him in the minors until he is 23-24 years old if he is showing he is ready for the show at 20-21 years old.

Exactly, it he's not up by the end of the 2016 season, that means something went wrong. Either injury or just overall lack of production. He'll play with the GCL this year. Next year is a toss up but no matter what he starts 2014 with Fort Myers(meaning if he plays for E-twins next year and plays well, he skips Beloit the following season). 2015 he starts in New Britain and ends in AAA. 2016 he makes his debut at some point. Again, this is assuming he performs well and avoids major injuries.

The Greatest Poster Alive
06-06-2012, 01:19 AM
Or Ben Revere is the guy traded . . .

Revere is blocking nobody but Clete Thomas, Brian Dinkleman and Erik Komatsu from the majors.



and to the original point. Span is in no way blocking buxton. He will finish his current deal before Buxton is called up. If he remains with the team, as he's going to be slowing down... he'll likley be playing RF/backup CF making plenty of room for Buxton to play center.

Trading Span is a terrible idea right now... maybe during the last year of his deal if the Twins are out of it at the deadline... but before that it's foolish.

Who leads off for this team when Span goes? Twins will have to go outside the organization to replace Span's spot in the lineup...

And finally, i can't say it enough. Ben Revere is a bench player.

powrwrap
06-06-2012, 12:01 PM
Well, Mauer was born into a baseball family and competed as a youth at a higher level of competition than Buxton, whose father seems to have topped out in slow-pitch leagues.

It's likely that both players played on youth traveling baseball teams. Both players played high school baseball, basketball and football. Both were high school quarterbacks. Both players played baseball on high school showcase teams after the high school season was over. Buxton pitched; Mauer didn't. Buxton has better foot speed. I don't see how Buxton's father's level of play could have any effect on Byron's abilities. I can see where Joe having brothers that played baseball would (possibly) make him a better player. I guess what I'm saying is I don't see that Mauer's youth history would give him much more polish than Byron's.

2003freak2003
06-06-2012, 12:25 PM
This may be the worst thread start ive seen on here. No association between Buxton draft pick and Span.

shs_59
06-06-2012, 12:33 PM
IMO Span will be with the Twins longer than Joe Mauer will.

alarp33
06-06-2012, 12:35 PM
It's likely that both players played on youth traveling baseball teams. Both players played high school baseball, basketball and football. Both were high school quarterbacks. Both players played baseball on high school showcase teams after the high school season was over. Buxton pitched; Mauer didn't. Buxton has better foot speed. I don't see how Buxton's father's level of play could have any effect on Byron's abilities. I can see where Joe having brothers that played baseball would (possibly) make him a better player. I guess what I'm saying is I don't see that Mauer's youth history would give him much more polish than Byron's.

I agree with your point... Mauer did pitch in High School though (like Buxton, he likely would've been a 1st rounder as a pitcher)

Brendan Kennealy
06-06-2012, 12:51 PM
There is no relationship between the Twins taking Buxton and Denard Span.

Exactly! Just as the Twins drafted Span in 2002 even though a guy named Torii Hunter was playing Gold Glove caliber CF. By the time Buxton is ready for The Show, Span may have already been replaced by Revere, Benson or even Hicks.

minn55441
06-06-2012, 12:54 PM
One thing has nothing to do with the other. They took the best guy on the board

My thoughts exactly. It will be years before we see Buxton in Minnesota. Span's future is more dependent on his own performance and that of the the Twin's win/lose record. Benson, Hicks and the rest are not close to a current level of play that could replace Span at the major league level.

I also agree that TR does not view this team as in rebuilding mode. As a GM you can't. I can see him trading some assets away to acquire some starting pitching for next year, but in no way can think that TR has given up on 2013, 2014 and already slotted them as rebuilding years.

CharacterGroove
06-06-2012, 06:41 PM
I think somebody is confusing the MLB draft with those in the NFL and/or NBA.