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John Bonnes
06-04-2012, 11:01 PM
MLB Draft Day 2 kicks off at 11AM Central. Twins start the day with picks #63, #72 and #97. Let's use this thread to talk about it.....

Seth Stohs
06-04-2012, 11:09 PM
I think the biggest question is whether or not either the Astros or the A's will draft Mitch Brown. If not, it would shock me if the Twins didn't take the Rochester Century right-hander. Baseball America has him ranked as the 44th best player overall. Getting that kind of quality at #63 (much less the value of him as a local story) only makes sense.

John Bonnes
06-05-2012, 10:07 AM
If they do, they'll have gone through their first four picks in the draft without nabbing a starting college pitcher. I"m not a big "draft for need" guy, but at some point doesn't this team need to address the enormous hole they have in the organization with upper level arms?

mike wants wins
06-05-2012, 10:29 AM
I'm all for Mitch Brown at this point, if he's there. Great value (assuming I should trust BA or ESPN at all) given the information we have. There are some good players available according to BA and ESPN. I'm hoping for pitching and middle infielders (if they are good / projectable).

J-Dog Dungan
06-05-2012, 10:34 AM
Like several people have been saying, there is still a good chance for the Twins to grab some high-end (or as high-end as you can get in this draft) pitching prospects, including Mitch Brown, who I thought would be gone by now (as he is #51 on the list of Top 100 Prospects). Other high-number "pitching prospects" (not counting Brown) that are still around for now are Hunter Virant (No. 47), Chris Beck (No. 52), and Nolan Sanburn (No. 44). I think all of these guys should be given serious consideration by the Twins, unless someone has seen something different recently to say otherwise.

Shane Wahl
06-05-2012, 10:38 AM
Why would they risk losing Brown and drafting Bard so high?

If drafting Bard that high is the result of the "BPA" methodology of the Twins, then they need to think differently or get different evaluators. I hope that today is truly a new day . . .

Shane Wahl
06-05-2012, 10:38 AM
I am predicting that Hunter Virant is the first pick today overall, with Brown falling to the Twins.

J-Dog Dungan
06-05-2012, 10:49 AM
With two picks close to each other in the second round, they have a good chance to draft several guys that are similar to each other in abilities, and I wouldn't be suprised if the Twins let Brown go and pick Hunter Virant if he is still available, and then hope that Brown falls to them at their second pick of the second round.

drivlikejehu
06-05-2012, 10:58 AM
Virant might fall due to signability concerns; I seriously doubt the Twins would draft him. The college starter crop is very weak, so that's probably not an option with the second round picks unless they keep drafting relievers to convert (which would be an unbelievably idiotic thing to do).

Gernzy
06-05-2012, 11:15 AM
Mason Melotakis? Anyone know anything about him? We just drafted him LHP from TX.

Sid Hartman
06-05-2012, 11:17 AM
Mason Melotakis? Anyone know anything about him? We just drafted him LHP from TX.

94-96 with a slidder...say he probably lefty specialist who will get a chance to start to refine delivery

SirLoin
06-05-2012, 11:17 AM
Mason Melotakis? Anyone know anything about him? We just drafted him LHP from TX.

From MLB.com...

The combination of left-handedness and plus velocity will always draw interested parties. That's why this Northwestern State closer is this high on Draft boards. Melotakis has grown into the closer role over the last two years using a fastball-curve combination to finish games. He can dial the fastball up to 96 mph with good arm side tail when he keeps it down in the strike zone. His curve ball is fringy average, but it's enough to keep hitters from sitting on the heater. He commands his fastball very well and has the kind of mentality teams look for in a short reliever. Even if Melotakis doesn't have the stuff to close at the Major League level, the combination of plus fastball and command should make him an effective setup man at the very least.

drivlikejehu
06-05-2012, 11:21 AM
Well, I guess they will keep drafting relievers. After all, Northwestern State pitchers with a 3.63 ERA out of the bullpen do typically develop into MLB mid-rotation starters.

Cap'n Piranha
06-05-2012, 11:21 AM
From MLB.com...

The combination of left-handedness and plus velocity will always draw interested parties. That's why this Northwestern State closer is this high on Draft boards. Melotakis has grown into the closer role over the last two years using a fastball-curve combination to finish games. He can dial the fastball up to 96 mph with good arm side tail when he keeps it down in the strike zone. His curve ball is fringy average, but it's enough to keep hitters from sitting on the heater. He commands his fastball very well and has the kind of mentality teams look for in a short reliever. Even if Melotakis doesn't have the stuff to close at the Major League level, the combination of plus fastball and command should make him an effective setup man at the very least.

This confuses me. We're really going to use a top 65 pick on a guy who profiles as a good set-up guy?

nicksaviking
06-05-2012, 11:24 AM
This confuses me. We're really going to use a top 65 pick on a guy who profiles as a good set-up guy?

You mean 2 top 65 picks.

SirLoin
06-05-2012, 11:26 AM
Could Brown fall to #72???

Sid Hartman
06-05-2012, 11:27 AM
Could Brown fall to #73???

You want Rockies to draft him? lol

mike wants wins
06-05-2012, 11:28 AM
BA had him 88th. ESPN had him 63rd. From ESPN: "I'd try to keep him online, put him in the pen and get him to the majors quickly, but I wouldn't be shocked to see a team try to make him a starter given his size and out pitch in the breaking ball."

nicksaviking
06-05-2012, 11:28 AM
Make that 3

SirLoin
06-05-2012, 11:29 AM
Wow....the Twins just must not be high on Brown. We just drafted a Jim Hoey who also apparently plays first base....

Gernzy
06-05-2012, 11:29 AM
Chargois. Huh another College reliever. Can play 1B too

righty8383
06-05-2012, 11:30 AM
I guess the Twins are happy with the starters they have in the system.

mike wants wins
06-05-2012, 11:30 AM
And, pick 72 comments from ESPN:

He's strictly a short reliever, someone to sign and send right out to Double-A with the hope that you can get him to the majors before the arm action catches up to him.

What are they thinking? I'd 100% rather they take hitters, than pitchers whose upside is short reliever who you need to play right away before he hurts himself. If, of course, you believe anything BA or ESPN say.

SirLoin
06-05-2012, 11:30 AM
Should we add Deron Johnson to the list of people that need to be fired by season's end???

drivlikejehu
06-05-2012, 11:31 AM
He had zero homers so I don't think his future is at first base. According the ESPN his future is as a solid reliever for a couple years, until he blows out his arm as a result of his delivery. Just what the Twins need.

mike wants wins
06-05-2012, 11:31 AM
Three or four relief pitchers, depending on which scouting reports you believe. It is truly a mind boggling strategy, given what little information and data and opinions we have available to us. I admit to not understanding these picks at all.

righty8383
06-05-2012, 11:31 AM
I'm starting to think Brown told scouts not to draft him below a certain point, which passed long ago.

SirLoin
06-05-2012, 11:33 AM
Best three lines from MLB.com about pick #72.....

- Scouts haven’t always been able to see him consistently enough to know what he brings to the table.

- He doesn’t have tremendous command

- Chargois is a bit of a wild card

SirLoin
06-05-2012, 11:40 AM
And Brown goes to Cleveland.....well done Twins.

Gernzy
06-05-2012, 11:40 AM
Cleveland took Mitch Brown. Would be funny having him pitch against us all the time.

twinswon1991
06-05-2012, 11:40 AM
Should we add Deron Johnson to the list of people that need to be fired by season's end???


Deron shouldve been fired years ago due to his terrible draft record but since he is a member of the twins good ole boys club he is safe.

jokin
06-05-2012, 11:42 AM
Should we add Deron Johnson to the list of people that need to be fired by season's end???

Based on his recent media profile article, it's inexplicable that DJ ever reached such a prominent position, let alone has kept the position. The article's supposition was that Johnson and the scouting department has merely been enduring a string of "bad luck", and conveniently avoided any mention of the "bad luck" in giving a $15Million dollar contract to a middle infielder who clearly doesn't know how to play either MI position, and, is struggling to keep above the Mendoza line at the plate...in Rochester.

Shane Wahl
06-05-2012, 11:42 AM
So . . . . make fun of the "need guy" all you want here. But the two things that the Twins have a decent amount of in the system . . . outfielders and middle relievers.

old nurse
06-05-2012, 11:43 AM
Maybe they are drafting players they can sign below slot so they can take risks later by drafting a player they can bribe out of college.

Steve Lein
06-05-2012, 11:45 AM
Well, Keith Law had him rated as #63, Twins pick was 63, so right in line with that. Lot of smoke and no fire with the Twins on Mitch Brown apparently. Kind of disappointed with that.

drivlikejehu
06-05-2012, 11:46 AM
It's not about rankings. The Twins have a desperate need for starting pitcher prospects and they are taking college relievers. It is unbelievably stupid. The organization is a joke.

Juicer
06-05-2012, 11:48 AM
I love all of this inside baseball stuff about how a guy projects, how the Chargois kid is going to below his arm out, etc. Who the H really knows? I for one am just excited that they got some guys that throw hard. Look at our bullpen this year and the studs we have... only 1 of them we drafted (Perkins), the other 2 we got elsewhere (Capps and Burton). The others beyond those 3 are mismatched parts, some we drafted, some we didn't. Chances are only 1 of our first 10 draft picks are ever going to make it.

nicksaviking
06-05-2012, 11:48 AM
Does anyone have a draft tracker? All I can get is the live feed from MLB's website but if they are providing a tracker showing who's currently being picked, I can't find it. Maybe they are doing this to prevent other sites from picking up this info? I can't find a working tracker on CBS or ESPN either.

old nurse
06-05-2012, 11:49 AM
Maybe the brain trust has a new idea for pitching. Three innings every third day. A closer and a spare. 11 pitchers.

Jeff P
06-05-2012, 11:50 AM
All these relievers have me scratching my head, I like to stay positive but wow. I know they will try to turn one or two guys into starters but how often does that work?

I do give them credit for drafting guys who can get strikeouts and sure hope they turn out. This is a critical draft where they have so many early picks.

jokin
06-05-2012, 11:50 AM
Maybe they are drafting players they can sign below slot so they can take risks later by drafting a player they can bribe out of college.


Hey! Old Nurse! Were you whistling past any graveyards when you typed this?

But seriously, is there a plan afoot to draft bunches of inexpensive college potential starters with late-round picks and hope that a SP version of a Jared Burton or two emerges, ala the Twins "find-some-RPs-by-quantity-invites" spring training plan?

Gernzy
06-05-2012, 11:50 AM
Relievers can turn into starters. Remember Santana was in the bullpen?

Remember this is a draft. No player is a lock to make The Show.

jeffk
06-05-2012, 11:51 AM
I just can't understand why anyone would draft a projected reliever. Relievers are what you pull off the scrap heap during the rule 5 draft, or what you do with a starter when he doesn't pan out, or what you pay $1M for in free agency. This is confounding. Either they're not even trying, or they have some mysterious secret plan.

old nurse
06-05-2012, 11:52 AM
Does anyone have a draft tracker? All I can get is the live feed from MLB's website but if they are providing a tracker showing who's currently being picked, I can't find it. Maybe they are doing this to prevent other sites from picking up this info? I can't find a working tracker on CBS or ESPN either.
mlb.com main page in the center has a link for the tracker. It is not live so you have to go back and recheck the page.

Intramural Legend
06-05-2012, 11:52 AM
Does anyone have a draft tracker? All I can get is the live feed from MLB's website but if they are providing a tracker showing who's currently being picked, I can't find it. Maybe they are doing this to prevent other sites from picking up this info? I can't find a working tracker on CBS or ESPN either.

http://minnesota.twins.mlb.com/mlb/events/draft/y2012/draftcaster.jsp

drivlikejehu
06-05-2012, 11:52 AM
None of the college pitchers have particularly great strikeout rates. All around one per inning, which is good but not great for a pro prospect. Melotakis' is a little higher but against mediocre competition, and of course all of them mostly worked in relief.

Chance
06-05-2012, 11:52 AM
What are they playing at?! I wanted gausman in the first round because he was a starter! Then they take a outfielder but o well we have plenty other high picks to invest on starters. We have not drafted a starting prospect yet! In the first 2 and comp rounds! What is there deal. I no fans don't know as much as scouts and front office personnel, but any dummy can see that we haven't addressed a single need yet. What a joke. I can't believe I've let myself be fooled into thinking they realize that they need to change their philosophy in order to save our minor league system.

jokin
06-05-2012, 11:56 AM
Relievers can turn into starters. Remember Santana was in the bullpen?

Remember this is a draft. No player is a lock to make The Show.

OK, tell me then...now which of these illustrious top 100 picks is the next Johan?

The only thing I see is the Twins are thinking they have been repeatedly burned by drafting "proven starters" who burned up their arms and ended up needing TJ surgery or worse and have come to the conclusion that "less is more"...

minn55441
06-05-2012, 11:56 AM
I think the strategy is to draft good arms. Regardless of how they were used in college or High school. If they kid has a good arm, we can use them. I wouldn't get too worked up about the lack of starting experience.

nicksaviking
06-05-2012, 11:56 AM
mlb.com main page in the center has a link for the tracker. It is not live so you have to go back and recheck the page.

Thanks, I had collapsed that part of the page thinking it was just a pop up for their advertiser.

Juicer
06-05-2012, 11:58 AM
I think the strategy is to draft good arms. Regardless of how they were used in college or High school. If they kid has a good arm, we can use them. I wouldn't get too worked up about the lack of starting experience.

Amen to that. I especially liked a comment I read on an MLB.com scouting report about a guy who "has a frame that projects like Brendan Morrow". Huh?

Gernzy
06-05-2012, 12:01 PM
OK, tell me then...now which of these illustrious top 100 picks is the next Johan?

The only thing I see is the Twins are thinking they have been repeatedly burned by drafting "proven starters" who burned up their arms and ended up needing TJ surgery or worse and have come to the conclusion that "less is more"...

None are the next Johan. Plus there were ZERO proven starters in this draft anyways. Like Minn55441 said draft good arms and see what happens.

jokin
06-05-2012, 12:03 PM
None are the next Johan. Plus there were ZERO proven starters in this draft anyways. Like Minn55441 said draft good arms and see what happens.

Probably unfair then, to use the Santana illustration in your initial analysis.

drivlikejehu
06-05-2012, 12:04 PM
If a player's college team doesn't like him as a starter, doesn't that indicate something? Ga. Tech maybe is one thing, but Northwestern State? What's next, a guy who wasn't good enough to start for his high school?

The advantage to college players is theoretically that they are less risky and closer to the Bigs. But taking on projects adds risk and development time.

Gernzy
06-05-2012, 12:04 PM
Wow...love the Adam Walker pick. Player with the best power in the draft. Compared to Stanton? That would be something.

Gernzy
06-05-2012, 12:06 PM
You people are so damn negative. I was just saying that relievers can be turned into starters. If you hate the way we draft go be a Yankee fan...geez

luckylager
06-05-2012, 12:08 PM
Adam Walker's dad was RB for the Vikings. No, not Herschel.
http://www.judolphins.com/baseball/roster/140/2401/

Miles
06-05-2012, 12:10 PM
Here are Walker's stats at JU this year:






Player


avg

gp-gs

ab

r

h

2b

3b

hr

rbi

tb

slg%

bb

hbp

so

gdp

ob%

sf

sh

sb-att

po

a

e

fld%




WALKER, Adam Brett


.343

56-56

210

44

72

14

0

12

42

122

.581

29

2

47

3

.426

1

0

19-20

391

17

11

.974

nicksaviking
06-05-2012, 12:12 PM
Obviously they will give most if not all these guys a chance to start. The Twins do not have much of a history of doing this but they are attempting to do it with both Boer and Boyd, both profiled as relievers last year. They also gave Gutierez a shot to start coming out of Miami. Hopefully the results are better this time around. I think most of the frustration comes from the passing on names people are more familiar with. I just wonder if these guys still have "power" arms when they get converted to starter.

jokin
06-05-2012, 12:13 PM
You people are so damn negative. I was just saying that relievers can be turned into starters. If you hate the way we draft go be a Yankee fan...geez

On a more positive note, it was just tweeted that the pitcher from Rice projects as a major leaguer by this September, which probably means we'll see Chargois in a Twins uniform by 2015...

jeffk
06-05-2012, 12:22 PM
Maybe the brain trust has a new idea for pitching. Three innings every third day. A closer and a spare. 11 pitchers.

You know, you're probably not serious, but I have wondered if anyone has ever tried this. I don't see an obvious reason why not.

mike wants wins
06-05-2012, 12:28 PM
jeffk, it was tried in the 70s, I think, but it was too big a culture change for teams to adopt. Also, pitchers hate it because it means they make A LOT less money. I'd try it if I had a staff as bad as the Twins, afterall, it can't be worse. But it's just not something anyone in baseball is likely to try.

jokin
06-05-2012, 12:34 PM
You know, you're probably not serious, but I have wondered if anyone has ever tried this. I don't see an obvious reason why not.

Billy Martin tried it out of a similar desperation that the Twins now share. After some initial success with the Oakland As, there were some arms that ended up being overworked, defeating the whole initial philosophy. With agents' heavy influence on the game, this plan can only be implemented on fringe, non-competitive, low-payroll teams like Oakland or KC.

Shane Wahl
06-05-2012, 12:38 PM
Yet another catcher taken before the Twins . . .

nicksaviking
06-05-2012, 12:40 PM
There is always plenty of talk about college coaches abusing the arms of the starters, and teams are concerned about the high number of pitches they go through per start. This practice may not be connected, but the Twins have recently been stung by Gibson and Wimmers going down. I don't want to claim the Twins are drafting college bullpen arms with the plan to convert them to starters because they see it as a way of getting around the typical abuse to college starters arms, but it may have factored into the decisioning.

J-Dog Dungan
06-05-2012, 12:40 PM
How many of the Top 100 Prospects are still on the board? And, if any, is there a chance that they fall to the Twins with their next pick?

Shane Wahl
06-05-2012, 12:42 PM
There is always plenty of talk about college coaches abusing the arms of the starters, and teams are concerned about the high number of pitches they go through per start. This practice may not be connected, but the Twins have recently been stung by Gibson and Wimmers going down. I don't want to claim the Twins are drafting college bullpen arms with the plan to convert them to starters because they see it as a way of getting around the typical abuse to college starters arms, but it may have factored into the decisioning.

Certainly there are relievers who could become starters, yes. I hope you are right. That is a good point.

J-Dog Dungan
06-05-2012, 12:47 PM
Who knows anything about this Zach Jones? (other than he is a pitcher)

Shane Wahl
06-05-2012, 12:50 PM
Who knows anything about this Zach Jones? (other than he is a pitcher)

Mostly a reliever, again. Good number of strikeouts and without the walks.

Maybe they are onto something with converting some of these guys to starters.

nicksaviking
06-05-2012, 12:51 PM
Who knows anything about this Zach Jones? (other than he is a pitcher)

Ha, the profile video for him on MLB's site is only of him taking uppercut swings at fastballs. So not sure about his pitching ability. Pretty big upper body for his height it looked like.

J-Dog Dungan
06-05-2012, 12:55 PM
That is what i saw too. Not much of a scouting video....

drivlikejehu
06-05-2012, 12:55 PM
Mostly a reliever, again. Good number of strikeouts and without the walks.

Maybe they are onto something with converting some of these guys to starters.

It's not like teams haven't tried before, Twins included. There is a reason those guys are relievers. At least with a high school player there is more upside remaining. This is just a fail strategy that does nothing to address the needs of the system.

J-Dog Dungan
06-05-2012, 12:59 PM
Well, the Twins are sticking to what we thought they would, just not exactly; while they may not have drafted any solid SP prospects, they have drafted 5 pitchers in 7 draft picks.

PMKI
06-05-2012, 01:02 PM
Any chance we can grab Ty Buttrey, Hunter Virant, Walker Buehler, or any of those HS arms and sign them?

jokin
06-05-2012, 01:04 PM
Well, the Twins are sticking to what we thought they would, just not exactly; while they may not have drafted any solid SP prospects, they have drafted 5 pitchers in 7 draft picks.

"Less is More" "Quantity not Quality" Spread the $12 Million around, pay under slot as much as possible, find the diamond in the rough in the later rounds.

StormJH1
06-05-2012, 01:05 PM
I don't understand this at all. It's hard for me to imagine star, elite pitchers in amateur baseball (HS and college) being thrown in the bullpen unless there was a REASON they weren't starters. I'm sure it's possible to convert one or two of these guys, but why do it?

I'm not even as alarmed by the fact that they're drafting 18 year olds instead of 20-22 year-old college pitchers, I get that this is more long-term. But if you're drafting these relievers because they throw mid-90's and "touch 97", they aren't going to do that as starters. Look at the difference between Perkins as a starter versus a reliever.

twinsfanstreif
06-05-2012, 01:09 PM
I don't get drafting a bunch of relievers, it hasn't worked in the past, why would it work now? The guy from rice isn't even the closer on his team and is probably the 3rd or 4th best pitcher on his team. Wasted picks, wasted opportunities. This is becoming so common it's not even funny. However I do like the Brett-Walker pick, he has a lot of power. Passing on Brown, Lovegrove, and Buttrey could come back to bite us although they may all 3 go to college. I want high upside guys at this point in the draft, not a bunch of Billy Bullocks who will probably fizzle out in AA. Seriously have ANY of these early round relievers worked out for us?

Shane Wahl
06-05-2012, 01:16 PM
Some college relievers are in that role to help the team as much as possible, but could be starters (Purdue has two solid ones who do that in Wittgren and Mascarello) both in college and moving forward, especially if they have two good pitches. I don't like doing this with a BUNCH of pitchers though! And still . . . passing up catchers and third basemen like it's going outta style . . .

nicksaviking
06-05-2012, 01:23 PM
I'm feeling less worried about all the reliever talk. Listening to the guys on MLB discuss every pick, it is pretty clear, they think EVERONE is a bullpen arm. It seems no starters get drafted after the 2nd round if you listen to them.

nicksaviking
06-05-2012, 01:24 PM
Another Rice closer, we got them both.

Winston Smith
06-05-2012, 01:26 PM
Does it appear the Twins way is to build from the bull pen out?

Gernzy
06-05-2012, 01:27 PM
Another Rice closer, we got them both.

Ok now that is alittle sad lol.

mike wants wins
06-05-2012, 01:30 PM
The difference is drafting starters that become relievers (because that's how it usually works), and taking guys that are already relievers. At this point, it is what it is. I have little confidence that three years from now, this minor league system will have any starting pitchers from this draft so far. And that's not good.

Miles
06-05-2012, 01:32 PM
Stats on the Rice pitchers from this season:


Player
era
app-gs
cg
sho
sv
ip
h
r
er
bb
so
2b
3b
hr
ab
b/avg
wp
hbp
bk
sfa
sha


Tyler Duffey (http://onlyfans.cstv.com/schools/rice/sports/m-basebl/mtt/duffey_tyler00.html)
1.93
36-0
0
0/2
7
51
33
12
11
21
68
4
1
2
182
.181
3
2
0
0
3


J.T. Chargois (http://onlyfans.cstv.com/schools/rice/sports/m-basebl/mtt/chargois_jt00.html)
2.15
25-0
0
0/2
8
37
28
11
9
12
38
5
2
1
133
.211
3
2
0
0
8

nicksaviking
06-05-2012, 01:38 PM
I guess there's more to these guys than the numbers seeing as the stats say Duffey gets drafted first. I wonder what puts Chargois over the top. The "experts" made it sound like Duffey also may have the ability to start where they all said Chargois is surely a bullpen guy.

Cap'n Piranha
06-05-2012, 01:42 PM
I don't understand this at all. It's hard for me to imagine star, elite pitchers in amateur baseball (HS and college) being thrown in the bullpen unless there was a REASON they weren't starters. I'm sure it's possible to convert one or two of these guys, but why do it?

I'm not even as alarmed by the fact that they're drafting 18 year olds instead of 20-22 year-old college pitchers, I get that this is more long-term. But if you're drafting these relievers because they throw mid-90's and "touch 97", they aren't going to do that as starters. Look at the difference between Perkins as a starter versus a reliever.

You're assuming that these kids can't improve once they leave college. Josh Willingham is the best player on this year's Twins, but was drafted in the 37th round. Mike Piazza, one of the 5 best hitting catchers of all time was drafted in the 50th round. By all rights, both of those guys were "we need some warm bodies in minor league camp" picks, and one is going to a HOFer, while the other will have a solid decade+ career.

jokin
06-05-2012, 01:43 PM
Stats on the Rice pitchers from this season:


Player
era
app-gs
cg
sho
sv
ip
h
r
er
bb
so
2b
3b
hr
ab
b/avg
wp
hbp
bk
sfa
sha


Tyler Duffey (http://onlyfans.cstv.com/schools/rice/sports/m-basebl/mtt/duffey_tyler00.html)
1.93
36-0
0
0/2
7
51
33
12
11
21
68
4
1
2
182
.181
3
2
0
0
3


J.T. Chargois (http://onlyfans.cstv.com/schools/rice/sports/m-basebl/mtt/chargois_jt00.html)
2.15
25-0
0
0/2
8
37
28
11
9
12
38
5
2
1
133
.211
3
2
0
0
8





Are you sure that Chargois' name didn't get stuck in the Twins copier and all you are quoting are updated stats? MN Twins better get a DNA test, or maybe this is a PR stunt, these guys are either twins or clones.

J-Dog Dungan
06-05-2012, 01:46 PM
Wow, Duffey, at least according to these stats, was striking out about 37% of the guys that he faced. That is some serious good stuff.

Miles
06-05-2012, 01:46 PM
At least we've cornered the market on toolsy outfielders and relief pitchers. New strategy consists of pitch-to-contact fly-ball soft-tossers with five outfielders...

jokin
06-05-2012, 01:48 PM
Wow, Duffey, at least according to these stats, was striking out about 37% of the guys that he faced. That is some serious good stuff.

That's what's confounding about why he went so much lower than Chargois. My guess is Chargois will be tried out as a starter and Duffey will be groomed for high leverage late innings.

Jeremy Nygaard
06-05-2012, 01:50 PM
That's what's confounding about why he went so much lower than Chargois. My guess is Chargois will be tried out as a starter and Duffey will be groomed for high leverage late innings.

As backwards as it sounds, I think it's going to be the other way around. Duffey will get a chance to start. Chargois will be a fast-track relief pitcher.

drivlikejehu
06-05-2012, 01:51 PM
That's what's confounding about why he went so much lower than Chargois. My guess is Chargois will be tried out as a starter and Duffey will be groomed for high leverage late innings.

Nope. Chargois has a wacky delivery that won't work as a starter. Duffey doesn't throw hard but is more well-rounded, so in theory they could give starting a try. He would likely have below-average velocity in that role.

Jim Crikket
06-05-2012, 01:56 PM
There is always plenty of talk about college coaches abusing the arms of the starters, and teams are concerned about the high number of pitches they go through per start. This practice may not be connected, but the Twins have recently been stung by Gibson and Wimmers going down. I don't want to claim the Twins are drafting college bullpen arms with the plan to convert them to starters because they see it as a way of getting around the typical abuse to college starters arms, but it may have factored into the decisioning.

I agree it's not likely the only reason for what we're seeing, but when I see the way many big time college coaches rack up pitches on the arms of their starting pitchers, I can't help but think this plays in to the Twins' thinking and perhaps rightfully so. College relievers have matured in to their bodies and give scouts a decent idea of their ability to pitch, without suffering the abuse that their starting pitching peers do.

I also wonder if the new bonus limits are part of this. Instead of drafting college relievers, a team might have drafted HS pitchers with upside in the past, knowing they'd have to pay a bit more in a bonus to keep them from going to college instead. Now that option is pretty much out. So if you're the Twins and you need pitching, but you see a pretty lousy draft class for starting pitching, what do you do?

You take the best hitting prospect.

You take a pass on college starting pitchers who aren't as good as they should be for the spots they're expecting to be drafted at, avoiding overpaying for mediocre quality and high injury risks due to overuse at the college level.

You scout the hell out of hard throwing college relievers who haven't racked up enormous innings, but are already mature enough to move quickly through the system if they perform well and hope some of them can become starting pitchers.

You ignore HS pitchers in the first few rounds because you probably can't pay them enough to keep them from choosing college as a route to getting big paydays in a future draft, instead looking to international options for adding young high-ceiling pitching arms.

Seems like the strategy the Twins are taking and while there's no way to know yet whether it's the right strategy, it's not totally without logic.

jokin
06-05-2012, 01:58 PM
Nope. Chargois has a wacky delivery that won't work as a starter. Duffey doesn't throw hard but is more well-rounded, so in theory they could give starting a try. He would likely have below-average velocity in that role.


Thanks for the info guys. Shows you can't rely strictly on the numbers. What exactly is the urgency to "fast-track" at a position where there is no urgency?

drivlikejehu
06-05-2012, 01:59 PM
Except other teams are taking high school pitchers. Will they mostly fail to sign them?

Jim Crikket
06-05-2012, 02:09 PM
Except other teams are taking high school pitchers. Will they mostly fail to sign them?

Maybe. Or maybe they'll have to figure out a way to pay them enough to get them signed and either pay less to someone else or pay the penalty for exceeding their allotted budget.

I guess my point was just that, this being the first year of these rules, nobody really knows how easy or difficult it will be to sign HS players. They do have more leverage than many of the college relief pitchers, however. A good HS starter who's drafted in the 3rd or 4th round probably believes he's likely to be a 1st rounder after 3 years of college ball. A good college reliever drafted in the 3rd or 4th round probably doesn't see himself moving up enough by staying in college for his senior year to make risking getting hurt in that year a chance worth taking.

I think different teams are implementing different strategies without knowing how the rules will really affect the resulting signings. Should make following up on who signs who more interesting anyway.

nicksaviking
06-05-2012, 02:10 PM
Thanks for the info guys. Shows you can't rely strictly on the numbers. What exactly is the urgency to "fast-track" at a position where there is no urgency?

Ha, probably because they have some pretty decent BP talent in the minors and they are going to run out of room for them all. Some arms need to be moved along becaue while the Twins bullpen is fine, there is hardly anyone up there who can't be replaced easily without any regret unlike the many arms with upside in the minors.

J-Dog Dungan
06-05-2012, 02:14 PM
And another pitcher, this time a lefty by the name of Andre Martinez (another HS arm)

Highabove
06-05-2012, 02:19 PM
Tampa drafted Matt Moore in the 8th round back in 2007.

Can Twins be that smart????

Shane Wahl
06-05-2012, 02:19 PM
Wittgren and Oakes should be some Big 10 names coming off the board soon.

nicksaviking
06-05-2012, 02:19 PM
The video didn't show him topping 88 MPH. He had more than a 3/4 delivery which I'm sure will be very difficult on lefties.

J-Dog Dungan
06-05-2012, 02:24 PM
I am sure that with said almost sidearm delivery that he will be tough for lefties, and probably righties as well, to handle. With that arm angle, speed isn't as high as it is with guys who go more over the top, so the fact that he can throw 88 with that arm slot is a point in his favor.

mbents
06-05-2012, 02:26 PM
I agree it's not likely the only reason for what we're seeing, but when I see the way many big time college coaches rack up pitches on the arms of their starting pitchers, I can't help but think this plays in to the Twins' thinking and perhaps rightfully so. College relievers have matured in to their bodies and give scouts a decent idea of their ability to pitch, without suffering the abuse that their starting pitching peers do.

I also wonder if the new bonus limits are part of this. Instead of drafting college relievers, a team might have drafted HS pitchers with upside in the past, knowing they'd have to pay a bit more in a bonus to keep them from going to college instead. Now that option is pretty much out. So if you're the Twins and you need pitching, but you see a pretty lousy draft class for starting pitching, what do you do?

You take the best hitting prospect.

You take a pass on college starting pitchers who aren't as good as they should be for the spots they're expecting to be drafted at, avoiding overpaying for mediocre quality and high injury risks due to overuse at the college level.

You scout the hell out of hard throwing college relievers who haven't racked up enormous innings, but are already mature enough to move quickly through the system if they perform well and hope some of them can become starting pitchers.

You ignore HS pitchers in the first few rounds because you probably can't pay them enough to keep them from choosing college as a route to getting big paydays in a future draft, instead looking to international options for adding young high-ceiling pitching arms.

Seems like the strategy the Twins are taking and while there's no way to know yet whether it's the right strategy, it's not totally without logic.


Well, when you put it like that, what the Twins are doing makes sense. I've been talked off the ledge!

J-Dog Dungan
06-05-2012, 02:30 PM
I also agree with everything that you said, Jim C. It all makes sense this year, but if this was last year's draft or the year before's and they had the same draft slot they do this year, people would have been calling them crazy.

Shane Wahl
06-05-2012, 02:32 PM
Kyle Hansen is a nice pick, unfortunately, for the White Sox.

Jim Crikket
06-05-2012, 02:35 PM
Well, when you put it like that, what the Twins are doing makes sense. I've been talked off the ledge!

Well, you have to consider the fact that I'm just as full of **** as everyone else here, so don't let me influence you too much.

drivlikejehu
06-05-2012, 02:35 PM
Maybe. Or maybe they'll have to figure out a way to pay them enough to get them signed and either pay less to someone else or pay the penalty for exceeding their allotted budget.

I guess my point was just that, this being the first year of these rules, nobody really knows how easy or difficult it will be to sign HS players. They do have more leverage than many of the college relief pitchers, however. A good HS starter who's drafted in the 3rd or 4th round probably believes he's likely to be a 1st rounder after 3 years of college ball. A good college reliever drafted in the 3rd or 4th round probably doesn't see himself moving up enough by staying in college for his senior year to make risking getting hurt in that year a chance worth taking.

I think different teams are implementing different strategies without knowing how the rules will really affect the resulting signings. Should make following up on who signs who more interesting anyway.

The thing is that the Twins are very well positioned this year to add some extra talent due to their high cap number. It's basically a one-time opportunity and so far it looks like they won't take advantage of it. It would really be a disgrace if they left significant money on the table, given the needs of the farm system.

mike wants wins
06-05-2012, 02:36 PM
Jim, it's a great theory, but I really have strong doubts about it's liklihood of success. Just curious, do you feel there is a guy here that will be starting still even in three years in the minors?

Jim Crikket
06-05-2012, 02:36 PM
I also agree with everything that you said, Jim C. It all makes sense this year, but if this was last year's draft or the year before's and they had the same draft slot they do this year, people would have been calling them crazy.

People are calling them crazy this year, too. I'll go out on a limb and say they'll call them crazy next year, as well.

Shane Wahl
06-05-2012, 02:39 PM
There goes Elander, damn it. I can't think of another higher-caliber catcher left at the moment. What the hell?

birdwatcher
06-05-2012, 02:39 PM
Jim Crikket, I think that's a pretty good take. There IS a strategy in place. Remember, last year, through 50 rounds, the Twins picked 24 LHP's as I recall. So apparently this year, the spotlight is on hard-throwing college pitchers.

I'd sure love it if one of the mainstream scribes would ask the kinds of questions that might give us some genuine insight on this stuff.

Jim Crikket
06-05-2012, 02:40 PM
Jim, it's a great theory, but I really have strong doubts about it's liklihood of success. Just curious, do you feel there is a guy here that will be starting still even in three years in the minors?

No.

Then again, based on conventional wisdom (which usually isn't all that wise in the end), this draft had very, very few guys in it that I WOULD feel at all strongly about being legit starters three years from now... and even fewer that projected as front of the rotation starting pitchers. That being the case, I'd probably look elsewhere (such as the international market) for my top starting pitching prospects.

Jim Crikket
06-05-2012, 02:46 PM
The thing is that the Twins are very well positioned this year to add some extra talent due to their high cap number. It's basically a one-time opportunity and so far it looks like they won't take advantage of it. It would really be a disgrace if they left significant money on the table, given the needs of the farm system.

Two things...

One, they can't add extra high quality talent no matter how many picks they have at the top of the draft or how much money they're allowed to spend if the talent in the draft is mediocre. What they were, unfortunately, faced with this year was the opportunity to spend more than any other team to acquire mediocre talent.

Two, while they won't have as many picks next year, it sure looks like they'll have another very early pick in the 2013 draft, so from that standpoint, it's not completely a one-time opportunity. It's just a damn shame this draft class looks so bad, relative to recent years.

Thrylos
06-05-2012, 02:48 PM
About the relievers the Twins selected: (and Andre Martinez is a starter, if they can sign him)

All but Chargois have started before and I suspect that at least 2-3 (Bard, Duffey, Zack Jones) would be converted into starters. Melotakis is an interesting situation. Lots like Corey Williams but with better FB. Could potentially start if he develops his secondary stuff better, but a lefty who hits 98 is a great commodity.

mike wants wins
06-05-2012, 02:48 PM
So far, next year's draft (and its early) looks a lot like this years. At some point, you need to roll the dice on high upside arms.

Shane Wahl
06-05-2012, 02:51 PM
****. Cameron Perkins, 3B, taken by the Cardinals. I was hoping he would be taken by the Twins as soon as they started addressing the fact that they have almost zero third basemen in the entire system worth anything outside of Sano and Harrison, neither of which is likely, at all, to stay there.

drivlikejehu
06-05-2012, 02:52 PM
Two things...

One, they can't add extra high quality talent no matter how many picks they have at the top of the draft or how much money they're allowed to spend if the talent in the draft is mediocre. What they were, unfortunately, faced with this year was the opportunity to spend more than any other team to acquire mediocre talent.

Two, while they won't have as many picks next year, it sure looks like they'll have another very early pick in the 2013 draft, so from that standpoint, it's not completely a one-time opportunity. It's just a damn shame this draft class looks so bad, relative to recent years.

Extra talent doesn't mean only top-notch guys. I was referring to their number of picks and ability to add depth. Take a bunch of prep pitchers with good arms and let the minor league staff work with them. Isn't that what the scouts are for, and the developmental personnel are for? A couple relief prospects don't make any difference when an organization has so much ground to make up.

Shane Wahl
06-05-2012, 02:53 PM
Haha. Jorge Hernandez, C, taken by the Twins. Just turned 18.

Jim Crikket
06-05-2012, 02:56 PM
So far, next year's draft (and its early) looks a lot like this years. At some point, you need to roll the dice on high upside arms.

I won't even pretend to know anything about any of these guys beyond what little I've read and that's a lot less than pretty much everyone else posting here, I'd imagine.

That said, exactly who were the "high upside" arms the Twins have passed on?

I believe they made the best choice with Buxton at #2, so the handful of SPs that were being discussed as being among the top half a dozen or so picks in the draft weren't really on the table. Even with those guys, while there were all sorts of opinions about how they measured up against one another, I don't recall much talk about any of them being really likely to turn out to be top-of-the-rotation guys. They were just the best of this class.

I believe the Twins absolutely need top of the rotation pitching... but you can't draft what doesn't exist. It's frustrating to have all these picks but so few "high upside" arms to pick from. The Twins decided, apparently, that they would try to find high upside arms among college relievers, since they didn't see them among college starters. Maybe they're wrong. Maybe they're right. I'm not smart enough to know that.

Thrylos
06-05-2012, 03:07 PM
Haha. Jorge Hernandez, C, taken by the Twins. Just turned 18.

Jose Fernandez is a 6'3" 165 lbs catcher who also plays CF and still growing. Would be interesting to see what happens to him. Committed to Alabama State, but could sign. I think some PR HS kids are signable at this point.

maybe there is your third baseman ;)

mike wants wins
06-05-2012, 03:18 PM
Another good point, Jim. Maybe there just aren't arms there. I'll bet good money they missed on at least three starters, but that's not a fair way to judge them (pure numbers game.....).

Jim Crikket
06-05-2012, 03:25 PM
Jose Fernandez is a 6'3" 165 lbs catcher who also plays CF and still growing. Would be interesting to see what happens to him. Committed to Alabama State, but could sign. I think some PR HS kids are signable at this point.

maybe there is your third baseman ;)

6' 3" and 165#?

Hell, I was 6' 1", 165 when I graduated from HS and I was downright scrawny (ah yes... those WERE the "good old days").

I sure as hell hope you're right about him being "still growing"!

John Bonnes
06-05-2012, 03:26 PM
Well, it's interesting at least.

If Bard (#43) had an SP instead of an RP next to his names, I wonder how different the perception would be. I also wonder what was available in terms of hard-throwing starters at #63. If we had our choice between a hard throwing reliever that might become a starter or a "pitch to contact" starter after those first 60 picks, which would we choose?

If this is a new inefficiency that the Twins think they've found, it sure would be nice if they could give us a homegrown poster child for it, because Boer/Boyd/Hunt don't exactly inspire confidence.

Jim Crikket
06-05-2012, 03:27 PM
Another good point, Jim. Maybe there just aren't arms there. I'll bet good money they missed on at least three starters, but that's not a fair way to judge them (pure numbers game.....).

Do you think they'll have ended up missing on three top of the rotation starters or just three guys who end up on a MLB rotation somewhere? The latter is all but certain, but the former I'm not so sure of. Either way, even if it turns out to be true, the trick is knowing WHICH three guys they're missing on... and to figure it out now instead of with 20-20 hindsight. I'm just glad I'm not the guy whose job it is to do it.

drivlikejehu
06-05-2012, 03:27 PM
I'm not a scout, but other teams thought prep pitchers were worth taking. Some highly ranked ones were available at #42 including Smoral and Weickel. In the 2nd round they passed on strong-armed guys like Brown, Underwood, and DeJong.

Maybe those guys stink but other teams- who have drafted better than the Twins in recent years - apparently don't think so. It seems the more logical conclusion is that the Twins have a bad strategy.

Jim Crikket
06-05-2012, 03:29 PM
Then again... it might be kinda fun to have that job for a while, until people figured out how much I suck at it.

jokin
06-05-2012, 03:33 PM
Then again... it might be kinda fun to have that job for a while, until people figured out how much I suck at it.

That's the point, and the problem, Jim. I think everyone except Twins management has already figured out that Deron Johnson sucks at it and they seemingly don't care. Trust me, you would be a major upgrade.

jokin
06-05-2012, 03:37 PM
Well, it's interesting at least.



If this is a new inefficiency that the Twins think they've found, it sure would be nice if they could give us a homegrown poster child for it, because Boer/Boyd/Hunt don't exactly inspire confidence.


You nailed it, the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and hoping for a different and better outcome. Why haven't the Twins thought about hiring staffers from the Braves, Nationals or Rays to try a "different" approach with a history of success rather than failure?

jokin
06-05-2012, 03:40 PM
Christian Powell, College of Charleston, 6'4" 220#s. So far so good. Please tell me he projects as a starter.

mike wants wins
06-05-2012, 03:44 PM
Do you think they'll have ended up missing on three top of the rotation starters or just three guys who end up on a MLB rotation somewhere? The latter is all but certain, but the former I'm not so sure of. Either way, even if it turns out to be true, the trick is knowing WHICH three guys they're missing on... and to figure it out now instead of with 20-20 hindsight. I'm just glad I'm not the guy whose job it is to do it.

I was trying to say what you said, that it is 100% certain that they'll miss on guys, just from a numbers perspective. But, to say we should let them of the hook means there just isn't any accountability, right? At some point, they need to find and develop starting pitchers that can be in their rotation. Whether they are easy to find or not, that is their job. So if they consistenty fail, at some point, changes should be made. I don't know if we are at that point or not, but this farm system is pretty bad right now.

jokin
06-05-2012, 03:49 PM
I was trying to say what you said, that it is 100% certain that they'll miss on guys, just from a numbers perspective. But, to say we should let them of the hook means there just isn't any accountability, right? I don't know if we are at that point or not, but this farm system is pretty bad right now.

Mike, the Twins have been at that point for a number of years, there is virtually no drafted pitching talent on the current roster, with a string of high end busts/trade-aways over the last decade.

mike wants wins
06-05-2012, 03:50 PM
Great point, John. Is this a market inefficiency or not? If so, they'll look like geniuses in three years. If not, well, I don't want to think about that....

mike wants wins
06-05-2012, 03:50 PM
jokin, I agree, and the minors are devoid also....but it isn't up to me.

SirLoin
06-05-2012, 03:56 PM
Christian Powell, College of Charleston, 6'4" 220#s. So far so good. Please tell me he projects as a starter.

Looks like he's a pretty solid starter....

Player ERA W-L APP GS CG SHO/CBO SV IP H R ER BB SO 2B 3B HR B/Avg
Christian Powell. 2.69 9-4 17 16 0 0/1 0 93.2 88 43 28 29 77 16 1 8 .247

Shane Wahl
06-05-2012, 04:01 PM
Well is the draft low on quality position players? Because they sure as hell aren't taking many of those either.

Shane Wahl
06-05-2012, 04:02 PM
This is where they could take T.J. Oakes.
Or Nick Wittgren.

jokin
06-05-2012, 04:04 PM
Looks like he's a pretty solid starter....

Player ERA W-L APP GS CG SHO/CBO SV IP H R ER BB SO 2B 3B HR B/Avg
Christian Powell. 2.69 9-4 17 16 0 0/1 0 93.2 88 43 28 29 77 16 1 8 .247


BA had him rated #193. Fastball in the low 90s. Pitcher of the Year in the Southern Conference. Turns 21 in July. At this point, too much pitch to contact, but at least a name to watch out for down the road.

J-Dog Dungan
06-05-2012, 04:05 PM
Most of Powell's hits against were singles, which is good. He also has a WHIP of 1.26, and he strikes out about .83 batters per inning. He also has some innings on his arm if he has gone through 16 CG's. That also means that he does well against hitters multiple times through the lineup.

jokin
06-05-2012, 04:07 PM
Wow, Lee Mazilli's son is on the board! He was a projected 4th-5th rounder. There's your future 2nd baseman, Todd Walker with a little more moxie.

J-Dog Dungan
06-05-2012, 04:08 PM
Clearly the description of the guy the Twins just picked means that he slid: "Mazzilli's bat will most likely be too much for teams to pass on in the top five rounds of the Draft." It is the 9th round of the draft.

Shane Wahl
06-05-2012, 04:08 PM
.952 OPS 16/21 SB/SBA. Solid pick.

SirLoin
06-05-2012, 04:09 PM
Wow, Lee Mazilli's son is on the board! He was a projected 4th-5th rounder. There's your future 2nd baseman, Todd Walker with a little more moxie.

Yep! And here's what MLB.com says....

The son of former player and manager Lee Mazzilli, L.J. swung a hot bat for UConn all season. Mazzilli makes hard, consistent contact and is able to use the whole field. He has a short, compact swing and should be able to hit for a good average at the next level. He has shown good power this spring but many believe that at best, it will be average. He has the ability to steal some bases and has shown it throughout his college career, but it will not be his best asset. Mazzilli is not the greatest defender at second but scouts believe that with some instruction he could be an average defender. Mazzilli's bat will most likely be too much for teams to pass on in the top five rounds of the Draft.

We're actually getting some value in these middle rounds....

jokin
06-05-2012, 04:13 PM
Clearly the description of the guy the Twins just picked means that he slid: "Mazzilli's bat will most likely be too much for teams to pass on in the top five rounds of the Draft." It is the 9th round of the draft.

Maybe I'm a little too conventional in my thinking, but I wouldn't mind seeing more subsequent picks looking like these last two, with an additional eye to Puerto Rico to gather a few more signable HSers.

Shane Wahl
06-05-2012, 04:14 PM
Nick Wittgren goes to Ozzie. Yuck.

jokin
06-05-2012, 04:15 PM
Yep! And here's what MLB.com says....

The son of former player and manager Lee Mazzilli, L.J. swung a hot bat for UConn all season. Mazzilli makes hard, consistent contact and is able to use the whole field. He has a short, compact swing and should be able to hit for a good average at the next level. He has shown good power this spring but many believe that at best, it will be average. He has the ability to steal some bases and has shown it throughout his college career, but it will not be his best asset. Mazzilli is not the greatest defender at second but scouts believe that with some instruction he could be an average defender. Mazzilli's bat will most likely be too much for teams to pass on in the top five rounds of the Draft.

We're actually getting some value in these middle rounds....

Stop it SirLoin, too much optimism! Just when I had become more comfortable feeling jaded than optimistic about this draft (after Buxton).

J-Dog Dungan
06-05-2012, 04:15 PM
i think that this is where the Twins start going for MN players, because I have heard indications that they really liked some of the guys coming out of here and they haven't chosen many, if any, yet.

John Bonnes
06-05-2012, 04:18 PM
So after the 1st 10 rounds, when we're out of the CBA's "bonus" rules, can teams pay someone anything? So a team could go back and revisit someone who was thought to be unsignable? Are any such players really available?

jokin
06-05-2012, 04:19 PM
i think that this is where the Twins start going for MN players, because I have heard indications that they really liked some of the guys coming out of here and they haven't chosen many, if any, yet.


Speaking of good pedigrees, will TJ Oakes still be there in the 10th round? If they liked DeVries and Thielbar, they've got to love Oakes.

Shane Wahl
06-05-2012, 04:19 PM
Yay, the Sox just made a foolish pick. Even before the injury this year, Micah Johnson was falling in value since his freshman year.

mike wants wins
06-05-2012, 04:19 PM
you can only pay $100,000 after round 10.

Shane Wahl
06-05-2012, 04:20 PM
So after the 1st 10 rounds, when we're out of the CBA's "bonus" rules, can teams pay someone anything? So a team could go back and revisit someone who was thought to be unsignable? Are any such players really available?

Isn't the cap at $100,000 per?

Shane Wahl
06-05-2012, 04:21 PM
So $3 million tops if EVERYONE signed. If the Twins have the money now, they could pay $100,000 to everyone they actually want to sign. I am not sure how many teams are going to pay the full amount to many of these guys.

John Bonnes
06-05-2012, 04:25 PM
Isn't the cap at $100,000 per?

OK, cool. Thanks for letting me know.

ashburyjohn
06-05-2012, 04:29 PM
Ha, probably because they have some pretty decent BP talent in the minors

The Twins already have sufficient Batting Practice talent in the majors, Blackburn and Pavano and so forth, thankyouverymuch.

PMKI
06-05-2012, 04:30 PM
When should we expect draftees to start signing?

Shane Wahl
06-05-2012, 04:33 PM
OK, cool. Thanks for letting me know.

I just found that out from Callis this morning . . . .

jokin
06-05-2012, 04:37 PM
[QUOTE=nicksaviking;22567]Ha, probably because they have some pretty decent BP talent in the minors /QUOTE]

The Twins already have sufficient Batting Practice talent in the majors, Blackburn and Pavano and so forth, thankyouverymuch.

Ouch! That'll leave a mark. Look on the bright side, Pavano is gone this year and Blackie not later than next.

jokin
06-05-2012, 04:42 PM
DJ Baxendale from Arkansas. Apparently another starter that can throw in the low 90s. Yes.

jokin
06-05-2012, 04:45 PM
I just checked Baxendale's bio at Arkansas. BA had him rated #85. Yes, again.

PMKI
06-05-2012, 04:47 PM
I just checked Baxendale's bio at Arkansas. BA had him rated #85. Yes, again.

Is BA baseballamerica? I just checked there and they have him at 319

John Bonnes
06-05-2012, 04:49 PM
I'm wondering a little bit about how likely Mazilli and Baxendale are to sign. I hope the fall from the higher slots doesn't mean they are priced beyond the bonus money. I wouldn't think it would mean that.

jokin
06-05-2012, 04:51 PM
Is BA baseballamerica? I just checked there and they have him at 319

Like you, I have my doubts in not going to the actual source, yours is obviously way more credible. From the Arkansas site:


"...ranked as the 38th-best prospect nationally in the junior class and the 85th-best draft prospect for the 2012 Major League Baseball Draft by Baseball America ... Named first-team preseason All-SEC by CollegeBaseballDaily.com ... Selected as the preseason SEC Pitcher of the Year and named preseason first-team All-SEC by SEBaseball.com ..."

Thrylos
06-05-2012, 04:54 PM
I'm wondering a little bit about how likely Mazilli and Baxendale are to sign. I hope the fall from the higher slots doesn't mean they are priced beyond the bonus money. I wouldn't think it would mean that.

At this point they have to either sign or go back for their senior years hoping to jump up a round or 2. Could be a gamble for them. I think that they will eventually sign.

zenser
06-05-2012, 05:01 PM
I was hoping for Mitch Brown or Chris Beck earlier today but those two will probably get to beat up on our Twins for awhile. I am surprised since they went for bullpen arms that they didn't go after Barrett (I think) from Arizona State. They had a couple chances at him today.

jokin
06-05-2012, 05:06 PM
I was hoping for Mitch Brown or Chris Beck earlier today but those two will probably get to beat up on our Twins for awhile. I am surprised since they went for bullpen arms that they didn't go after Barrett (I think) from Arizona State. They had a couple chances at him today.

Hopefully, it's all about signability and that Barret (and Brown) weren't going to fit under their cap and that the ones they did draft are ready to sign ASAP.

J-Dog Dungan
06-05-2012, 05:30 PM
I am seriously surprised that Hunter Virant hasn't been picked yet. There must be serious signability issues, and he probably won't sign this year with him being taken no earlier than the 11th round.

J-Dog Dungan
06-05-2012, 05:34 PM
And I spoke too soon. Virant taken with the first pick of the 11th round.

J-Dog Dungan
06-05-2012, 05:37 PM
Twins take Taylor Rodgers, a LHP out of Kentucky as their 11th round pick.

ashburyjohn
06-05-2012, 05:44 PM
Alex Muren, RHP, Cal State Northridge, 12th round. Pitching, pitching, pitching.

J-Dog Dungan
06-05-2012, 05:45 PM
With their 12th round pick, the Twins take Alexander Muren, a RHP out of Cal State; 6'3", 195 lbs.

Shane Wahl
06-05-2012, 05:46 PM
Alexander Muren, RHP, Cal State-Northridge in round 12. So they are going big with pitching and not wasting much elsewhere. 15 picks, 11 pitchers (two OF, one 2B, one C).

J-Dog Dungan
06-05-2012, 05:48 PM
My God, the Twins weren't kidding about focusing on taking pitching; out of their 15 choices so far, 11 have been pitchers.

Shane Wahl
06-05-2012, 05:53 PM
11 college picks, 4 HS.

Of the 11 pitchers, 8 RH and 3 LH.

ashburyjohn
06-05-2012, 05:55 PM
My God, the Twins weren't kidding about focusing on taking pitching; out of their 15 choices so far, 11 have been pitchers.

Yeah, but they're already taking pitching for pitching's sake by now; Muren (http://www.gomatadors.com/sports/m-basebl/2011-12/bios/muren_alex_vvwc) at #370 had a 5-8 W-L record in 14 starts this year, a 5.30 ERA, and 47 Ks in 91.2 innings. He'll help fill out a rookie league rotation but unless a scout saw something to build upon it's difficult to forecast any progress. And we've still got 28 rounds to go in this draft. I think I'm officially bored now. :)

Shane Wahl
06-05-2012, 05:59 PM
Another pitcher, Erich Knab, RH. HS in S.C.

mike wants wins
06-05-2012, 06:01 PM
That is an amazing ratio. They are playing the numbers game, which is a strategy I endorse.

drivlikejehu
06-05-2012, 06:06 PM
The college guys they are taking at this point are basically organizational players, not really prospects. They can take a thousand, it doesn't really matter... they are just there to fill out rotations.

ashburyjohn
06-05-2012, 06:08 PM
The college guys they are taking at this point are basically organizational players, not really prospects. They can take a thousand, it doesn't really matter... they are just there to fill out rotations.

And the high schoolers, I suspect, are the ones who intend to get a four-year degree before devoting to baseball. You can draft a thousand of them too, and still probably not make a difference; but at least, with these, we can hope for some kind of persuasion.

J-Dog Dungan
06-05-2012, 06:09 PM
Has Oakes been drafted yet?

Shane Wahl
06-05-2012, 06:14 PM
Has Oakes been drafted yet?

Rockies in 10th, I believe.

Twins take Jake Proctor. CF out of U. of Cincinnati.

Why bother with a 3B or another catcher when there are always OFs to grab!?

Shane Wahl
06-05-2012, 06:17 PM
White Sox take SP Tony Bucciferro out of Mich. State. I could see him actually making the majors as a starter. Must be nice . . .

J-Dog Dungan
06-05-2012, 06:18 PM
They already grabbed a C, and I guess that they haven't seen anyone that was on their boards as a 3b that they want to draft yet. That's too bad about Oakes, although middle of the 10th round was about where the scouts were putting where he would be drafted. Twins seem to be staying away from drafting people from Minnesota this year.

J-Dog Dungan
06-05-2012, 06:23 PM
in the 15th and last round of the day, the Twins take Jarret Leverett, a LHP out of Georgia Southern, GA.

IdahoPilgrim
06-05-2012, 06:23 PM
The college guys they are taking at this point are basically organizational players, not really prospects. They can take a thousand, it doesn't really matter... they are just there to fill out rotations.

Doesn't that apply to just about anybody taken after the 10th round? These will be either high school kids who may sign or may go on to college, or college players designed to fill out rosters, and who knows, you just might get lucky with one of them (like Blackburn 29th round 2001 or Punto 33rd round 1997).

Shane Wahl
06-05-2012, 06:24 PM
Jarret Leverett, LHP out of Georgia Southern

13 pitchers and 5 position players through the 18 picks so far. That's it for the day.

IdahoPilgrim
06-05-2012, 06:27 PM
So $3 million tops if EVERYONE signed. If the Twins have the money now, they could pay $100,000 to everyone they actually want to sign. I am not sure how many teams are going to pay the full amount to many of these guys.

My guess is most of them get virtually nothing - just the chance to play pro ball and maybe make it to the bigs.

J-Dog Dungan
06-05-2012, 06:32 PM
Observations from today:
The Twins start and end the day selecting a LHP out of Georgia, taking a total of 11 pitchers, a RF, a C, a 2B, and a CF.
The Twins haven't taken a pick out of either the Northwest or the Midwest.
Also, with their first 18 selections, the Twins took 13 pitchers, including 9 RHP.
The Twins took a crapload of pitching today

jokin
06-05-2012, 06:33 PM
Doesn't that apply to just about anybody taken after the 10th round? These will be either high school kids who may sign or may go on to college, or college players designed to fill out rosters, and who knows, you just might get lucky with one of them (like Blackburn 29th round 2001 or Punto 33rd round 1997).

Agreed, with the exception of 11th Rd pick Taylor Rogers, who looks intriguing. His numbers progressed nicely each season, and a lefty, to boot. Given his proven record of continued development and improvement, he may opt to go back for his senior year and be difficult to sign. I hope the Twins have a persuasive pitch to convince him to come out for the low money available in the 11th round.

I would think the best bet for legit future prospects from this point on is HSers in Puerto Rico, who would be less resistant to the low dollars available and may not have as many college options available.

J-Dog Dungan
06-05-2012, 06:42 PM
Agreed, with the exception of 11th Rd pick Taylor Rogers, who looks intriguing. His numbers progressed nicely each season, and a lefty, to boot. Given his proven record of continued development and improvement, he may opt to go back for his senior year and be difficult to sign. I hope the Twins have a persuasive pitch to convince him to come out for the low money available in the 11th round.


That is the problem, and if the Twins go too far over trying to sign this guy, I believe that it eats into the amount we have to spend on the Top 10 Round Picks. So it might be smarter for the Twins, if they see signability issues with the kid, to let him go back to college for his senior year and then take him with a higher pick next year, where they can spend more than $100,000 on him.

drivlikejehu
06-05-2012, 06:50 PM
The Twins will spend well below their cap. That is a complete non-issue at this point.