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View Full Version : Scott Diamond - for real?



IdahoPilgrim
06-03-2012, 05:12 PM
OK, it's been six starts now. None of them have been bad, and some have been quite good (I put today in that category). He is easily the top starter on the staff right now. You would think opposition scouts have had enough time now to put together info on him for their clubs. Time to ask the question: Is he for real? Have we found a gem in the rough? Or is this still beginner's luck? Is an implosion coming?

Chance
06-03-2012, 05:18 PM
I'd like to think for real. He is a lefty and we are told it takes them a bit longer to show there true capabilities.

glunn
06-03-2012, 05:27 PM
OK, it's been six starts now. None of them have been bad, and some have been quite good (I put today in that category). He is easily the top starter on the staff right now. You would think opposition scouts have had enough time now to put together info on him for their clubs. Time to ask the question: Is he for real? Have we found a gem in the rough? Or is this still beginner's luck? Is an implosion coming?

I watched the entire game today and he seemed to be very solid, despite 3 or 4 errors by the defense. The Indians' announcers talked about his ability to change speeds, which may be the key to him having a good career. He also showed good composure when there were runners on base.

Will Diamond ever be a MLB ace? Probably not. He had only two strikeouts today. But maybe the Twins have found a southpaw Brad Radke who can deliver solid performances for a few years. And if he can keep his era below 2.00, then he deserves consideration for this year's All Star game.

Thrylos
06-03-2012, 06:12 PM
Diamond could be a decent #4-5 guy in a contending team. Not missing too many bats, not walking too many, getting a few double plays. That's it. And this is better than what the Twins have been having in those spots the last few years. (Blackburn/Perkins/Marquis et al.)

drivlikejehu
06-03-2012, 06:13 PM
He is getting a ton of groundballs- far in excess of anything he did in the minors. Unless he made some kind of adjustment when he was called up, I wouldn't think it's sustainable. The jury is still out but I think he's a clear step up from Walters, DeVries, Swarzak, etc. (which isn't saying much).

stringer bell
06-03-2012, 06:51 PM
He is getting a ton of groundballs- far in excess of anything he did in the minors. Unless he made some kind of adjustment when he was called up, I wouldn't think it's sustainable. The jury is still out but I think he's a clear step up from Walters, DeVries, Swarzak, etc. (which isn't saying much).The conventional wisdom is that a lefty with average stuff can be quite successful and I think Diamond's performance bears out the conventional wisdom. The ERA isn't going to last where it is, but six straight effective starts is pretty good. I can see Diamond staying in the Twins rotation for quite awhile.

peterb18
06-03-2012, 06:59 PM
I think he could be a good 2nd, or 3rd starter. A number 2 can be a control pitcher as long as you have at least two power arms in the rotation. What makes Diamond effective, outside of changing speeds, is that he comes overhand and has a downward break on the ball. These type of pitchers are usually more effective. Whereas, 3/4 guys usually throw a flatter ball--much easier to follow the ball.

J-Dog Dungan
06-03-2012, 07:31 PM
I watched the entire game today and he seemed to be very solid, despite 3 or 4 errors by the defense. The Indians' announcers talked about his ability to change speeds, which may be the key to him having a good career. He also showed good composure when there were runners on base.

Will Diamond ever be a MLB ace? Probably not. He had only two strikeouts today. But maybe the Twins have found a southpaw Brad Radke who can deliver solid performances for a few years. And if he can keep his era below 2.00, then he deserves consideration for this year's All Star game.

I actually made the same comparison of Radke to Diamond earlier today :D

shs_59
06-03-2012, 07:37 PM
At the Very least he ALREADY >>> than Billy Bullock

I was one of the VERY Few that APPLAUDED the Diamond for BUllock trade at the time, after the Rule 5 thing went to hell. I liked Diamond, knew he was older, but LHP that Twins scouts were very keen on "he could pitch for us real soon" .... I knew he was > than WALK or BB machine Billy Bullock (enter James Hoey ish)

I'm one of the smartest twins fans on the web. thank you thank you.

:P

Riverbrian
06-03-2012, 09:53 PM
Baseball is about ringing the bell when the bell is in reach. This is the Diamond moment. He has passed test #1.

The next test is the regression. Can he battle back from it. I love what I'm seeing thus far. No walks today. This is a pitcher that is limiting his mistakes. A team will have earn it against him.

Fire Dan Gladden
06-03-2012, 11:07 PM
Come talk to me when he starts going through the league a second time.

nokomismod
06-03-2012, 11:17 PM
I could get flagged for a preposterous statement here, but Diamond's mechanics and "stuff" remind me of Glavine. Glavine was good and for a long time though.

Riverbrian
06-04-2012, 12:41 AM
Come talk to me when he starts going through the league a second time.

Probably true... I expect a rough patch at some point. Thats when we will find out what we have.

Boom Boom
06-04-2012, 08:16 AM
Diamond reminds me of Duensing. I'm a fan of Duensing, but I'm expecting Diamond to come to earth as a starter much like Duensing did.

Jeff P
06-04-2012, 08:35 AM
I think it is too soon, both Duensing and Blackburn (among others) have had streaks where they had a lot of success. In looking back through his minor league record, he has never been dominant and has generally given up a lot of hits. He has lowered his walk rate and if keeps that up it gives him a better chance to stick. His pitches seem to have good movement so it would not shock me if he becomes a solid starter but I think it will be awhile before we know.

SpiritofVodkaDave
06-04-2012, 08:47 AM
Diamond reminds me of Duensing. I'm a fan of Duensing, but I'm expecting Diamond to come to earth as a starter much like Duensing did.

They aren't alike. Duensing is basically a LOOGY who was able to get lucky enough to keep his overall ERA down, once teams figured him out they started stacking RH lineups against him and he struggled. Diamond on the other hand hasn't had issues getting out RH hitters, in fact his numbers against LH are much worse which is suprising for a leftie, but that could just be a case of small sample size.

Loosey
06-04-2012, 09:06 AM
I expect him to be a typical Twins starter once we get to the end of the year. I would expect about a 4.00 era long-term. This year though I wouldn't be shocked to see him finish with lower ERA in the 3's.

Yoshii
06-04-2012, 09:14 AM
I hope he doesn't end up like another Nick Blackburn.

stringer bell
06-04-2012, 09:40 AM
Diamond has been able to get RH hitters out, which is something that Duensing has struggled with. He needs to be pretty fine, because he is not overpowering, but he does have three pretty good pitches and good command and composure. I like all the GB outs he is getting and really like that he has given hardly any free passes. Sure, he is due for some regression, but if he keeps on doing what he's been doing, he'll be fine.

Cap'n Piranha
06-04-2012, 10:35 AM
In my mind Diamond profiles as a #3/4 on a contending team. Won't overpower anyone, isn't a no-hit candidate every time he hits the mound, but will do the following things;

1--limit pitch count, allowing him to pitch deeper into games, which saves your bullpen.

2--utilize movement and different speeds to offset his lack of stuff. 6.5 to 7 times out of 10, the average major leaguer will not get on base. If you limit walks, that rises to 7 to 7.5 times out of 10. As long as Diamond is not serving up cookies, the odds are in his favor to perform well, especially considering that for the first time since 2010 the Twins have reliable middle infield defense.

spideyo
06-04-2012, 11:45 AM
I also was happy they keep Diamond around, and I'm glad he's finally showing his worth. I don't expect him to be a Cy Young winner anytime soon, but I think he's a guy we can count on to go out and pitch 6+ innings and give our offense a chance to win. I'll take that.

2003freak2003
06-04-2012, 12:36 PM
I also was happy they keep Diamond around, and I'm glad he's finally showing his worth. I don't expect him to be a Cy Young winner anytime soon, but I think he's a guy we can count on to go out and pitch 6+ innings and give our offense a chance to win. I'll take that.

Well said.
Evidentaly this guy is a "3 or 4" starter in most of your eyes. Even if so, I bet we would be winning the division if we had starts of his caliber every game. Not bad for a "3 or 4 on a contending team guy". It shows what his pitching does when he can just keep us in games = wins...and I'll keep taking them.

StormJH1
06-04-2012, 01:41 PM
At the Very least he ALREADY >>> than Billy Bullock

I was one of the VERY Few that APPLAUDED the Diamond for BUllock trade at the time, after the Rule 5 thing went to hell. I liked Diamond, knew he was older, but LHP that Twins scouts were very keen on "he could pitch for us real soon" .... I knew he was > than WALK or BB machine Billy Bullock (enter James Hoey ish)

I'm one of the smartest twins fans on the web. thank you thank you.

:P

True. Some other people liked that trade too (I think Gleeman did), which was confusing when he put up terrible numbers at AAA last year. But his entire career aside from that has been pretty solid.

I guess my ongoing concern would be that he had a 7.1 K/9 ratio in the minors, and if he's a 5.0 to 6.5 K/9 guy in the majors, he'll get hit. But even if he posts a ERA in the 4.00 range and can throw strikes as a lefty, he could be a very valuable back of the rotation guy going forward. And he wasn't considered a legitimate prospect heading into the year, really.

PopRiveter
06-04-2012, 02:39 PM
I hope he's for real. We had a quiver full of affordable middle rotation guys a few years back (Perkins, Duensing, Blackburn, Pavano, Slowey) but they're a rare commodity right now. Everyone complained about the missing ace when 1-5 were all strong, not dominant. However, no production from Baker and Liriano led to a full staff meltdown. Today, a decent #3 starter feels like a legimate bright spot.

greengoblinrulz
06-30-2012, 12:23 PM
didnt want to start a new thread on him but....
anyone notice that counting his AAA numbers....he goes over 100IP for the year in todays DH(34.2IP in ROC...64IP in MN).
Not that this is amazing or anything, but with the health of our pitchers the last 2 yrs.....nice to see.
Counting only MLB numbers...only 14 AL pitchers have his 98.2IP starting today. Ive gone from being a disbeliever ( how can you not be after last yr??) to thinking he can be a solid 2 or 3 style guy.
He would also rank 5th in AL with his 2.67 ERA if he qualified (hes gonna have trouble qualifying unless MN lets him get to 200IP total...think they wont let him get that far in Sept....last yrs 162 his high).

glunn
06-30-2012, 03:22 PM
Diamond was solid today -- 8 innings pitched and gave up only 2 runs. Yes there were only 4 strikeouts, but I will take this performance every time.

crapforks
06-30-2012, 03:34 PM
I hope he's for real. We had a quiver full of affordable middle rotation guys a few years back (Perkins, Duensing, Blackburn, Pavano, Slowey) but they're a rare commodity right now. Everyone complained about the missing ace when 1-5 were all strong, not dominant. However, no production from Baker and Liriano led to a full staff meltdown. Today, a decent #3 starter feels like a legimate bright spot.

I whined, but not about having a #1. My complaint was about having too many clones of each-other. Having a guy or two who were "effectively wild" would have been a great compliment to the "control artists" they keep cloning. The team seems to think that every 88mph FB with good control is going to turn into Brad Radke.
I'm not expecting a Randy Johnson #3, I'm just thinking someone who has a strikeout pitch, maybe walks some guys, and has the ability to miss some bats. Post-surgery Rich Harden, even with his 'meh' results, would have given the opponents something to think about other than "swing because it's probably a strike."

stringer bell
06-30-2012, 06:05 PM
Diamond should qualify easily. He's got 72 MLB innings and the Twins have played 76 games. He's need only 90 innings in the final 86 games.