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View Full Version : Is FranKKKKie back?



John Bonnes
05-30-2012, 03:23 PM
I was heads down and didn't get to watch today's game. The numbers look awfully good and they certainly couldn't gush enough about him in the post game. I'm looking for impressions from those who watched it. Leaving aside the obvious "He has to do it again and again and again....." thing, what did people think watching it. Notice anything different? I'm far more encouraged by a 9/2 K/BB performance that I was by his no-hit game last year.

JB_Iowa
05-30-2012, 03:52 PM
The biggest thing I noticed was that he seemed very composed.

I just don't doubt that Frankie has the stuff (although I'm bad at judging it). My latest thought is to hire a hynotist for him with a "trigger" word to help keep him in the zone.

Twins Fan From Afar
05-30-2012, 03:55 PM
Francisco Liriano: Twins Fans
Lucy Holding the Football: Charlie Brown

Is there another player that is capable of exciting fans the way that Liriano is? All it takes is 1 dominant start, like he had today, to get us going again. My God, the talent is there. He's exceedingly frustrating, though.

Shane Wahl
05-30-2012, 03:57 PM
His delivery was usually under control so he wasn't recoiling and falling backwards and to third nearly as much. Still happened some and he would miss the zone. Anderson and Butera did a good job with him.

whydidnt
05-30-2012, 03:58 PM
Let's not forget he was facing the A's. I think the best of their 4-9 hitters entered the day hitting something like .226 and none of them has scary power either. Not a real good test for a guy. From what I could see, he still had problems commanding the fast ball, but the A's couldn't figure out how to hit his off speed stuff. at one point I think it was something like 38-31 k-b on the board, and then Oakland just started swinging at everything. An improvement on what we've seen, but I think we need to see him against a major league team before we get too excited.

MWLFan
05-30-2012, 04:07 PM
To where? Last year, the year before. His magical pre TJ self. That really is a moving target of a question. I can't say that Frankie is what he is...he is a riddle wrapped inside a enigma. He is hope held tightly by despair, he is a state fair pronto pup filled with radioactive waste. He is designed to ultimately intrigue our minds and break our hearts. Time to move on from Frankie.

IdahoPilgrim
05-30-2012, 04:11 PM
He got behind in too many counts for my taste, but he managed to pitch his way out of it, which was a big problem with him earlier in the year. Would like to see a higher strike/ball ratio, but all in all a promising rebirth.

CDog
05-30-2012, 04:18 PM
He got behind in too many counts for my taste, but he managed to pitch his way out of it, which was a big problem with him earlier in the year. Would like to see a higher strike/ball ratio, but all in all a promising rebirth.

Almost exactly what I was coming to write. I only saw the first 4 innings, but at one point I know his first pitch strikes were 5 of 10. More than one 3-0 count, etc. That's the bad side, but as said, the flip side was that he recovered from those things well. His stuff looked plenty good, and he wasn't missing by as much as he was on the misses earlier in the year (first pitch excepted).

Montecore
05-30-2012, 04:21 PM
Like to see him flourish as much as anyone but it's 1 game against MLB's worst hitting team.

nicksaviking
05-30-2012, 04:29 PM
I didn't get to see the game, just the online gamecast. One thing that Frankie seems to do consisitantly is pitch better as the season progresses. Maybe it's the weather or maybe he needs a couple months to calm his nerves, but April and May are usually borderline disasters followed by solid summer months.

Sssuperdave
05-30-2012, 04:30 PM
I've seen a lot of talk about his makeup, mental state etc. but very little about his actuall stuff. I recall Gleeman made a post a couple of months ago noting that his velocity was down a bit. How does his raw stuff compare to other pitchers? Has it indeed diminished? If he can get the mental side figured out, what can people reasonably expect? I'm guessing it's not very close to the dominance of his rookie year, but could he get back to his 2010 performance with his current stuff?

IdahoPilgrim
05-30-2012, 05:17 PM
I don't know how this compares to previous years, but for what it's worth they said he topped out at 94 today.

USAFChief
05-30-2012, 05:29 PM
Agree with much of the above: 1) It WAS Oakland. Still, it's a major league team. 2) Occasional issues with fastball command, but unlike all year, when he HAD to throw a strike, for the most part he was able to do so. 3) Didn't have a lot of adversity to deal with, but didn't come unraveled over a 3-0 count or a baserunner, as has often been the case this year. 4) Seems to have toned down the delivery just a bit, a little more compact and controlled. However, he was still sitting 92 on the FB, hit 94 as mentioned above, with movement. Slider still had nice action and missed lots of bats. There were a couple hard hit "at-em" balls, but generally speaking, not a lot of hitters had good swings off him today. Still showed above average MLB stuff, IMO.

All in all, encouraging on many levels, for a guy who had imploded to the point he couldn't keep a spot in THIS rotation not that long ago.

tobynotjason
05-30-2012, 06:08 PM
I just threw this up at Twinkietown http://www.twinkietown.com/2012/5/30/3053388/did-liriano-get-lucky-keep-the-ball-down-in-the-zone-do-something

More downward movement on all this pitches than he's had this year. Velocity didn't look like 2010, but his fastball moved more like a sinker and less like a sitting duck. Ditto his change.

darin617
05-30-2012, 07:14 PM
I was heads down and didn't get to watch today's game. The numbers look awfully good and they certainly couldn't gush enough about him in the post game. I'm looking for impressions from those who watched it. Leaving aside the obvious "He has to do it again and again and again....." thing, what did people think watching it. Notice anything different? I'm far more encouraged by a 9/2 K/BB performance that I was by his no-hit game last year.

Of course he is back...Let's just hope a couple of NL teams are foolish enough to think that either he is back or they are smarter than the Twins coaches(Which probably doesn't take much to be) and pull off a deal and get some value for him.

Thrylos
05-30-2012, 07:17 PM
I think that he needs a couple more starts like this and then we are talking for a hot commodity... The Oswalt signing is going to get the Dominoes dropping and June is upon us.

twinzgrl
05-30-2012, 07:30 PM
I watched the game. He threw a lot of balls nowhere near the strike zone. The A's hit a lot of balls hard and far. The Twins defense came through for him. He hugged Rick A. in the dugout after his six innings were done. I want to view it as a positive, but past history prevents me from doing so, and even though he didn't give up any runs, it wasn't really that strong a performance. I know, baby steps...and I guess it was that.

YourHouseIsMyHouse
05-30-2012, 07:36 PM
Francisco Liriano: Twins Fans
Lucy Holding the Football: Charlie Brown

Is there another player that is capable of exciting fans the way that Liriano is? All it takes is 1 dominant start, like he had today, to get us going again. My God, the talent is there. He's exceedingly frustrating, though.

WHY?! Why does he do this to his?! All I wanted was for him to get a few quality starts so the Twins could trade him and slam the door shut once and for all. But good lord, with a masterful outing such as tonight, it's so difficult for me to not get pumped! You just don't want to see someone who is capable of performing on an elite level leave. I hate the way Liriano messes with our minds. I feel so torn, but my brain still realizes it's the wrong move to keep him. Although, my heart says otherwise.

Thrylos
05-30-2012, 07:37 PM
I watched the game. He threw a lot of balls nowhere near the strike zone. The A's hit a lot of balls hard and far. The Twins defense came through for him. He hugged Rick A. in the dugout after his six innings were done. I want to view it as a positive, but past history prevents me from doing so, and even though he didn't give up any runs, it wasn't really that strong a performance. I know, baby steps...and I guess it was that.

I have to disagree... The good Frankie (and today it was FranKKKKKKKKKie, btw) was never a pitch to contact guy. To miss bats you got to throw pitches outside the strike zone but you got to make hitters chace them. They were chasing plenty today. So I have no problem with pitches outside the strike zone if they no not result in walks and result in plenty of Ks like they did today.

YourHouseIsMyHouse
05-30-2012, 07:44 PM
I watched the game. He threw a lot of balls nowhere near the strike zone. The A's hit a lot of balls hard and far. The Twins defense came through for him. He hugged Rick A. in the dugout after his six innings were done. I want to view it as a positive, but past history prevents me from doing so, and even though he didn't give up any runs, it wasn't really that strong a performance. I know, baby steps...and I guess it was that.

Oakland has the worst offense in the majors hands-down. That's the main negative I can think of in this situation. However, I don't understand how you can say it wasn't a strong performance. 9 strikeouts and a double play in 6 innings is ridiculous. I think what you're getting at is that it looks better on paper, but for me stats are stats. He was missing bats like crazy and didn't struggle with the strike zone. Liriano played to his advantages and I doubt he couldn't have pitched any better.

YourHouseIsMyHouse
05-30-2012, 07:49 PM
My biggest concern if he's traded is that his new team's coaches can "fix" him and we get screwed out of a top 20 pitcher.

James Richter
05-30-2012, 07:55 PM
Good pitchers have to dominate a bad lineup, and Frankie did that today. I was impressed with how he was able to battle back from a bunch of 3-0 counts. How many times have we seen him put that guy on and dig a big hole for himself? A few well-struck outs, but 2 of the 3 knocks they got were weakly hit, so it evens out. All in all, great start! Now do it again.

snepp
05-30-2012, 07:57 PM
Oakland has the worst offense in the majors hands-down.


The Pirates disagree. The A's will have to settle for 2nd worst.

gil4
05-30-2012, 08:32 PM
To where? Last year, the year before. His magical pre TJ self.

2010. That seems like what he can do physically post-TJ if he holds it together mentally.

YourHouseIsMyHouse
05-30-2012, 08:36 PM
The Pirates disagree. The A's will have to settle for 2nd worst.

Oakland: 28th in Runs, 30th in Batting Average, 29th in OBP, and 30th in SLUG
Pittsburgh: 30th in Runs, 29th in Batting Average, 30th in OBP, and 28th in SLUG

OR a better way might be

Oak: 28th in Runs, 29th in OPS (.674)
Pitt: 30th in Runs, 30th in OPS (.618)

It's really just apples and oranges, but I agree that I'm wrong.

mnfireman
05-30-2012, 08:42 PM
So, do we think we believe he's turned it around or do we believe we think he's turned it around? It was a great start, no doubt, but was it a start to be great?

snepp
05-30-2012, 10:51 PM
It's really just apples and oranges, but I agree that I'm wrong.

Isn't it more like apples and apples? It doesn't matter, they're both rotten.

TwinsGuy55422
05-31-2012, 12:34 AM
I was at the game. He was regularly hitting 93 on the stadium radar gun. His breaking balls seemed to have good bite and his delivery seemed more under control. As others have mentioned, I was impressed with how he didn't implode when he got behind hitters or gave up baserunners.

Shane Wahl
05-31-2012, 01:36 AM
I'm telling you, watch him on his pitches and when he is effective and not. It is ALL about repeatable mechanics with him. Full stop.

He was more consistent today than at any point earlier in the season as a starter.

YourHouseIsMyHouse
05-31-2012, 03:03 AM
Isn't it more like apples and apples? It doesn't matter, they're both rotten.

I suppose it is, but that's not how the saying goes.:)

Boom Boom
05-31-2012, 08:23 AM
Is Frankie back? If by "back" you mean ready to be a consistent contributor, I'm going to say no.

I was at the game. Liriano was falling behind in the count frequently, 2-0 and 3-0. He can get away with that against the feeble A's, but the good teams are going to punish him for that.

One thing I did notice was that it looked like he threw his changeup more often than I'm used to seeing, which is a good sign. It's a good pitch and he's been hesitant to use it in the past.

Gernzy
05-31-2012, 08:42 AM
We'll see how he does on his next start and go from there. I think we all can agree we hope this is a sign of things to come.

twinsnorth49
05-31-2012, 08:55 AM
I'm telling you, watch him on his pitches and when he is effective and not. It is ALL about repeatable mechanics with him. Full stop.

He was more consistent today than at any point earlier in the season as a starter.

I just watched the replay (again) and this is bang on, his delivery today was, with exception of some spots in the 3rd inning, very repeatable and consistent. He rarely lost his fastball up and away, most of his misses were down, his fastball had velocity and pretty good location all game, his two seamer was moving like a bastard and when he went to the slider it was lights out. Because he was reliable with his fastballs he didn't have to overuse his slider, which he has had to do in the past with no effect, it was great to see. His change up was pretty bloody good as well and that was definitely helped by 94 mph fastballs across the plate, 94 must seem like 100 after you've been fed an 86 mph change up. He kept his head about him with runner's on, which might have been the best part of his performance.

I know Oakland isn't exactly Murderer's row but as I think Chief pointed out, they are a major league team, as we've witnessed from the Twins a team hitting poorly can break out at any time, especially if the pitcher is showing some vulnerability. Liriano didn't show them that and he didn't give them much to work with, he has the best stuff on the team and yesterday he used it to great effect, good on him, I'm happy for him.

twinsnorth49
05-31-2012, 09:26 AM
Is Frankie back? If by "back" you mean ready to be a consistent contributor, I'm going to say no.

I was at the game. Liriano was falling behind in the count frequently, 2-0 and 3-0. He can get away with that against the feeble A's, but the good teams are going to punish him for that.

One thing I did notice was that it looked like he threw his changeup more often than I'm used to seeing, which is a good sign. It's a good pitch and he's been hesitant to use it in the past.

Maybe not but as far as falling behind 2-0, 3-0 it depends what you call frequently. He only fell behind in those counts 6 times and none back to back, that is very un-Frankie like. One of those was Crisp in the 5th when he followed up 3 balls with 3 clean strikes to a lifetime .273 hitter, not bad.

I think him falling behind in those counts was different yesterday because he had such good command of his fastball and he mixed his pitches well. Better hitters might have jumped on him but I don't think it would have been his un-doing. 3 of those counts went to Reddick once and Gomes twice, as bad as the A's are hitting, those guys are no chumps, if someone on that team is going to make the pitcher pay you figure it would have been them.

Boom Boom
05-31-2012, 09:50 AM
Maybe not but as far as falling behind 2-0, 3-0 it depends what you call frequently. He only fell behind in those counts 6 times and none back to back, that is very un-Frankie like.

Frequently meaning too many times for any pitcher to get away with against a strong lineup. I agree it was actually a step in the right direction in Liriano's case that he only did it six times, but that's still too many times.

twinsnorth49
05-31-2012, 09:59 AM
Frequently meaning too many times for any pitcher to get away with against a strong lineup. I agree it was actually a step in the right direction in Liriano's case that he only did it six times, but that's still too many times.

Fair enough.

Curt
05-31-2012, 10:14 AM
Oak: 28th in Runs, 29th in OPS (.674)
Pitt: 30th in Runs, 30th in OPS (.618)

It's really just apples and oranges, but I agree that I'm wrong.

Oakland does get to hit for the pitcher.

DAM DC Twins Fans
05-31-2012, 10:30 AM
Good pitchers have to dominate a bad lineup, and Frankie did that today.

My thoughts exactly. Lets see what FranKKKie does against a better lineup--which is the vast majority of major league teams. Thats what 29 GMs are saying right now.