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tpb8
05-25-2012, 07:15 AM
Which of the potential contenders needs him, and what can a Morneau trade bring back?

IdahoPilgrim
05-25-2012, 07:35 AM
Is there a market for him? He's got a $14M/year contract through 2013 and has lost a lot of games to injury in the past few years - most to concussion symptoms.

kirbyelway
05-25-2012, 07:36 AM
I'm telling you all now St. Louis will come calling for him!!!!

Twins Fan From Afar
05-25-2012, 08:02 AM
I still do not believe there is a realistic market for Morneau. Sure, all it takes is one desparate GM willing to overlook the serious injury history and questionable future, but I don't see the Twins getting any great return (except for salary relief, and I still think MN would have to throw in some money) for Morneau. It would cost approximately a $21 million for a team to pay Morneau for the last half of 2012 and all of 2013. That's a big, big financial risk for most teams, even contenders, especially considering that Morneau hasn't successfully finished a season in a while.

Top Gun
05-25-2012, 08:06 AM
I would never trade Morneau, he is just to good.

tpb8
05-25-2012, 09:06 AM
Is there a market for him? He's got a $14M/year contract through 2013 and has lost a lot of games to injury in the past few years - most to concussion symptoms.

Really? I hadn't heard that.

If Morneau starts to hit and his wrist proves to be just fine, you don't think there's a team out there with room for him? The Cards have the money. It's not like he has 5 years left on his deal.

gunnarthor
05-25-2012, 09:16 AM
Really? I hadn't heard that.

If Morneau starts to hit and his wrist proves to be just fine, you don't think there's a team out there with room for him? The Cards have the money. It's not like he has 5 years left on his deal.

If he plays the next two months without a hitch and hits like the Morneau of old, someone will take him (if we offer him). I don't know what he'd get. Mets got Zach Wheeler for a few months of Carlos Beltran last year. From the Twins perspective, it makes no sense to trade him unless we get something of real future value to him considering his role within the organization and status among fans. They can't get Jacobson/Hoey or Oliveres-like deal for him. The exception to that would be if Ryan wants to do a payroll dump.

bteichr
05-25-2012, 09:21 AM
The ideal spot would be Texas. After losing the last two World Series, I can see them spending the resources to increase their chances for the next couple of years. They have room for an upgrade at 1B and they have the prospects to deal. How's this for a lineup: Kinsler, Andrus, Hamilton, Beltre, Morneau, Young, Napoli, Cruz, Murphy. Hopefully they can get one of Martin Perez, Neil Ramirez, or Jurickson Profar.

SpiritofVodkaDave
05-25-2012, 09:25 AM
The market next year for Morneau (assuming he stays healthy and effective) would be significantly greater, the Twins only have 65 million committed to next years team anyways so there is no rush for a payroll dump.

Unless you are blown away by an offer this season, I think the best bet is to hold onto him for 2013 where you can maybe compete in an awful AL Central, if not you can always dump him at the deadline next year if you are out of it. Here are my rankings of players who should be potentially traded from greatest to least.

1a. Pavano (for anything)
1b. Doumit (for anything)
1c. Capps (for anything)
1d.Liriano (for anything)
5. Caroll
6. Span (only for a top starting pitcher in return)
7. Willingham (if the price is right)
8. Morneau (if the price is right)
9a. Burton (if the price is right)
9b. Duensing
9c. Perkins
9d. Blackburn (if anyone would take him)

SpiritofVodkaDave
05-25-2012, 09:28 AM
The ideal spot would be Texas. After losing the last two World Series, I can see them spending the resources to increase their chances for the next couple of years. They have room for an upgrade at 1B and they have the prospects to deal. How's this for a lineup: Kinsler, Andrus, Hamilton, Beltre, Morneau, Young, Napoli, Cruz, Murphy. Hopefully they can get one of Martin Perez, Neil Ramirez, or Jurickson Profar.

No thanks on Perez, and there is zero chance they trade Profar. Perhaps they would listen if we included Sano, Rosario and Morneau, but that isn't going to happen. Profar is a legit top 5 prospect at this point at a premium position.

StormJH1
05-25-2012, 01:23 PM
How could you trade for Morneau with that contract still left to pay and the knowledge that he could be shut down at any minute. You watch him in 2012, and it's obvious that there's still flashes of what he used to be. But this was a guy who wasn't even able to finish seasons BEFORE the 2010 concussion. He had 4 or 5 surgeries last year, and his wrist problems have already cost him time. I'm sorry, but if any one of those injuries becomes even a minor issue again, he isn't an upgrade for any team when he's on the field hurt.

Oh, and by the way, there's no DH in the National League, so you're committing yourself to playing him at 1B every game, which something even the lowly Twins haven't done. I love Morneau as a player, he's one of my favorite Twins over the course of his career. But you can't ignore all of the risk when you're talking trade value.

Highabove
05-25-2012, 01:25 PM
The public will be very upset if a healthy Morneau is traded. Everyone has waited a long time to see the M&M boys healthy and productive.

What are you going to sell to the public next year?

YourHouseIsMyHouse
05-25-2012, 01:55 PM
No thanks on Perez, and there is zero chance they trade Profar. Perhaps they would listen if we included Sano, Rosario and Morneau, but that isn't going to happen. Profar is a legit top 5 prospect at this point at a premium position.

Let me start by saying Profar is good. Really, really good. But even you have overrated his value with that hypothetical proposal. A deal with Morneau and Span would be EXTREMELY tempting for the Rangers. Especially if the Twins eat lots of Justin's contract. They also don't have anywhere to put Profar because they have Kinsler and Andrus locked up long term in their middle infield. I don't think it would be a good move, but I just thought it was worth bringing up.

IdahoPilgrim
05-25-2012, 01:58 PM
The public will be very upset if a healthy Morneau is traded. Everyone has waited a long time to see the M&M boys healthy and productive.

What are you going to sell to the public next year?

The same thing they sold the public this year - hope, dreams & fantasy.

jeffk
05-25-2012, 02:11 PM
What are you going to sell to the public next year?

I think this is a good point. The people who post on this site are smart baseball nerds who play things strictly by the numbers. But to your average fan, your star players have value beyond that and I think sometimes that's forgotten. Mauer and Morneau are all that's left of a strong late-2000s team, and both potentially have years of productivity left in them - modulo, of course, injuries. They could both be around as the veteran part of a better team in two or three years, and if you get rid of them, your average fan is going to lose even more interest. And average fans need to be interested, because they need to show up at games to fund the payroll.

Top Gun
05-25-2012, 02:13 PM
The Twins got all kinds of money, they don't need to cut payroll. I think they know that now, but it is to late.

USAFChief
05-25-2012, 02:26 PM
I think it's doubtful the Twins deal Morneau, but assuming health and productivity through July, there would absolutely be a market for him. $20m for a year and a half of Morneau hitting in the middle of a good team's lineup isnt expensive.

And if the Twins were to deal him under those circumstances, they should expect a lot in return.

tpb8
05-25-2012, 02:45 PM
How could you trade for Morneau with that contract still left to pay and the knowledge that he could be shut down at any minute. You watch him in 2012, and it's obvious that there's still flashes of what he used to be. But this was a guy who wasn't even able to finish seasons BEFORE the 2010 concussion. He had 4 or 5 surgeries last year, and his wrist problems have already cost him time. I'm sorry, but if any one of those injuries becomes even a minor issue again, he isn't an upgrade for any team when he's on the field hurt.

Oh, and by the way, there's no DH in the National League, so you're committing yourself to playing him at 1B every game, which something even the lowly Twins haven't done. I love Morneau as a player, he's one of my favorite Twins over the course of his career. But you can't ignore all of the risk when you're talking trade value.

Any player could be shut down at any minute. Look at Carlos Beltran's injury history. He's gotten traded in nice packages before and signed huge FA deals. If Morneau is playing 1B every day and hitting, someone will take a chance on him. If he's healthy he's a great slugger and a former MVP. Who wouldn't risk adding a bat like that to their lineup heading into the playoffs?

As for not trading Morneau because of the fans.......if that's the case they may as well shut down the organization. We're going to finish last in our division for the 2nd season in a row. The M&M Boys are a distant memory. Those players are gone and they're likely never coming back. If you can get a nice package for Morneau and wipe $14 million off the books, you HAVE TO do it in order to increase the talent pool.

ashburyjohn
05-25-2012, 02:47 PM
It's a real dilemma. When he's hurt (DL or playing through it) there is no market for him. When he's productive, the fans would scream. Branch Rickey's philosophy that it's better to trade a player a little too soon than a little to late is especially sharp when it comes to a guy that has a track record of injury, but I just don't see how a GM could survive the storm that would occur in the case of Morneau. Sometimes a team is accused of valuing its own players too much, but here it's externally driven rather than internally.

I think we just need to sit back and enjoy him, unless some team offers the really high-end prospects being bandied about here. Actually the prospect would need to be major-league ready, like the Doyle Alexander for John Smoltz trade, and I will be very surprised if this turns out to be possible.

nicksaviking
05-25-2012, 02:50 PM
He needs to stay healthy, but we shouldn't be fooled by his percieved lack of production. Despite missing time, only Edwin Encarnacion and Paul Konerko are having better years as AL firstbasemen. Morneau has a higher OPS an more HR than the rest of them. In fact he has as many HR as Mark Teixeira and Adrian Gonzolaz combined. An All-Star birth and even a HR derby spot are not out of question. Those marks on a resume mean a lot if you shop a player the same year. The Baltimre fan base would get excited when their newspaper gets to print the headline ORIOLES TRADE FOR FORMER MVP. $14M left for one extra season will only be a problem if he gets hurt again.

ashburyjohn
05-25-2012, 02:53 PM
Let me start by saying Profar is good. Really, really good. But even you have overrated his value with that hypothetical proposal. A deal with Morneau and Span would be EXTREMELY tempting for the Rangers.

The Twins have very few marketable players. If Morneau reaches a level of marketability, you're proposing to combine two tradeable chips for just one outstanding prospect. I don't want to see trades bringing over a gaggle of marginal prospects, but to concentrate so much into one position is so risky in several ways that this wouldn't be the way I'd go.

Montecore
05-25-2012, 03:02 PM
No ****ing way.

SpiritofVodkaDave
05-25-2012, 03:24 PM
Let me start by saying Profar is good. Really, really good. But even you have overrated his value with that hypothetical proposal. A deal with Morneau and Span would be EXTREMELY tempting for the Rangers. Especially if the Twins eat lots of Justin's contract. They also don't have anywhere to put Profar because they have Kinsler and Andrus locked up long term in their middle infield. I don't think it would be a good move, but I just thought it was worth bringing up.

Why would the Twins trade both Span and Morneau for him? You were the one saying they should trade Morneau for him, which they would never do, nor should the Rangers do.

The Rangers have already talked about moving Kinsler to the OF and Andrus to 2nd base once Profar is ready, or they could always trade Andrus once he is ready as well. Either way, Profar is going nowhere unless the Orioles suddenly want to offer Bundy for him.

YourHouseIsMyHouse
05-25-2012, 04:48 PM
Why would the Twins trade both Span and Morneau for him?

Why would the Twins trade Rosario, Sano, and Morneau for Profar?

YourHouseIsMyHouse
05-25-2012, 04:50 PM
The Twins have very few marketable players. If Morneau reaches a level of marketability, you're proposing to combine two tradeable chips for just one outstanding prospect. I don't want to see trades bringing over a gaggle of marginal prospects, but to concentrate so much into one position is so risky in several ways that this wouldn't be the way I'd go.

If you'd just READ my entire post, you'd notice at the very bottom I acknowledge it's a bad move. It wasn't a "proposal", it was a hypothetical situation where I was assessing what the Twins would probably have to do to get a player like Jurickson Profar.

Shane Wahl
05-25-2012, 04:54 PM
Let me start by saying Profar is good. Really, really good. But even you have overrated his value with that hypothetical proposal. A deal with Morneau and Span would be EXTREMELY tempting for the Rangers. Especially if the Twins eat lots of Justin's contract. They also don't have anywhere to put Profar because they have Kinsler and Andrus locked up long term in their middle infield. I don't think it would be a good move, but I just thought it was worth bringing up.

Span and Morneau . . . then the Twins better get not 1, not 2, not 3, but 4 top 20 Texas prospects.

YourHouseIsMyHouse
05-25-2012, 05:06 PM
Span and Morneau . . . then the Twins better get not 1, not 2, not 3, but 4 top 20 Texas prospects.

Exactly. A deal with the Rangers would be great though since they could use both of those tradeable pieces. I would trade Morneau for Jurickson straight up though.

buckshotmike
05-25-2012, 05:57 PM
I'm sorry but there is no way that the Rangers would trade Profar for Morneau and Span. Even with Andrus and Kinsler, they could trade the young SS for a much better player than Morneau. Whomever the best player available at the deadline could fetch Profar. That is, unless Morneau is hitting .300 with 20+ hr and 80 RBI's. Profar is going to be a star.

Dilligaf69
05-25-2012, 08:21 PM
We need starting pitchers so bad I can see it happening just not this season. IF he stays healthy then this winter or next season for sure.

twinswon1991
05-25-2012, 08:29 PM
REALITY CHECK

The Twins have ZERO assets in their entire organization that can fetch a prospect on the BA top 100 list other than Sano who is on the list himself. Based on Morneau's contract the best they can hope for is a promising pitcher in A ball that has a chance to be a #3 starter some day. This is reality Twins fans and is a direct result of terrible FO management for the last 10 years.

darin617
05-25-2012, 09:18 PM
The market next year for Morneau (assuming he stays healthy and effective) would be significantly greater, the Twins only have 65 million committed to next years team anyways so there is no rush for a payroll dump.

Unless you are blown away by an offer this season, I think the best bet is to hold onto him for 2013 where you can maybe compete in an awful AL Central, if not you can always dump him at the deadline next year if you are out of it. Here are my rankings of players who should be potentially traded from greatest to least.

1a. Pavano (for anything)
1b. Doumit (for anything)
1c. Capps (for anything)
1d.Liriano (for anything)
5. Caroll
6. Span (only for a top starting pitcher in return)
7. Willingham (if the price is right)
8. Morneau (if the price is right)
9a. Burton (if the price is right)
9b. Duensing
9c. Perkins
9d. Blackburn (if anyone would take him)

I didn't see Mauer on your list, did you forget to include him?