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darin617
05-20-2012, 02:19 PM
He's gotta go now. He stinks, it looks like he is throwing BP to all hitters. There has to be better options than putting him out there. Duensing (http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/players/8177) or Swarzak (http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/players/8479) should replace him in the rotation and call up Lester Oliveros or Deolis Guerrato fill in the bullpen.

Seth Stohs
05-20-2012, 02:24 PM
I'd keep Duensing and Swarzak in the bullpen... DFA Marquis... add Cole DeVries to the 40 man roster and call him up to start.

gunnarthor
05-20-2012, 02:30 PM
Can't imagine the Twins keep Marquis after this start.

glunn
05-20-2012, 02:36 PM
Why not send him to Rochester in the hope that he can get better?

greengoblinrulz
05-20-2012, 02:37 PM
I'd keep Duensing and Swarzak in the bullpen... DFA Marquis... add Cole DeVries to the 40 man roster and call him up to start.

This.....dont mess with the pen

Dilligaf69
05-20-2012, 02:42 PM
Well at least this makes the decision a no brainer as if it was'nt before now. I gave him a pass the first couple starts...missing most of ST, his daughters accident but this is embarrassing. It's quite obvious he's finished as a starter, at least for us. I'm all for DeVries now if that's what it takes although Swarzak is an option as well.

USAFChief
05-20-2012, 02:48 PM
I was hoping the DFA announcement would be made when they came back from commercial after the pitching change in the bottom of the 2nd.

glunn
05-20-2012, 02:54 PM
I was hoping the DFA announcement would be made when they came back from commercial after the pitching change in the bottom of the 2nd.

That would have been good.

greengoblinrulz
05-20-2012, 02:55 PM
Walter/Diamond/Pavano could all go on regular rest for the CHI series if MN just skips Blackburn's turn with the offday MON (Dick/Bert talking like they wont).
I then could see them call DeVries up for Fri's game at home vs DET. Swarzak or Liriano could make one spot start on SAT with Diamond on SUN.....This would get the rotation back to Walters/Pavano/DeVries to go MON-Wed vs CLE with an off day THUR.
This would give them a chance to get Hendriks 2 more starts in AAA & then step back into that spot in rotation on that SAT (he would start next WED/MON in AAA).
Utilize your off days.

glunn
05-20-2012, 02:58 PM
Walter/Diamond/Pavano could all go on regular rest for the CHI series if MN just skips Blackburn's turn with the offday MON (Dick/Bert talking like they wont).
I then could see them call DeVries up for Fri's game at home vs DET. Swarzak or Liriano could make one spot start on SAT with Diamond on SUN.....This would get the rotation back to Walters/Pavano/DeVries to go MON-Wed vs CLE with an off day THUR.
This would give them a chance to get Hendriks 2 more starts in AAA & then step back into that spot in rotation on that SAT (he would start next WED/MON in AAA).
Utilize your off days.

I think that Gardenhire uses the off days to eat more pizza.

Thrylos
05-20-2012, 02:59 PM
Why not send him to Rochester in the hope that he can get better?

That ^^^^

He has an option left (remember he started the season in New Britain). Being a 5+ year pitcher he would have to accept optioning and I am not sure whether the fact that he accepted optioning earlier in the season has anything to do with now. Plus he will bring local star quality for the ever-complaining natives there.... /sarcasm

The bottom like is that the interim GM made a $3 million mistake. Would be interesting to see whether Terry Ryan admits that he is wrong.

About who should replace him? I think that it is about time that the Twins see what Cole DeVries have. He is the best P in Rochester (other than Hendriks) right now.

gunnarthor
05-20-2012, 03:06 PM
The bottom like is that the interim GM made a $3 million mistake. Would be interesting to see whether Terry Ryan admits that he is wrong.

What GM has a 100% success rate? Willingham, Carroll, Doumit, Blanton, Grey were solid pick ups. Turpin (Slowey trade) looks good at AA.

darin617
05-20-2012, 03:22 PM
That ^^^^

He has an option left (remember he started the season in New Britain). Being a 5+ year pitcher he would have to accept optioning and I am not sure whether the fact that he accepted optioning earlier in the season has anything to do with now. Plus he will bring local star quality for the ever-complaining natives there.... /sarcasm

The bottom like is that the interim GM made a $3 million mistake. Would be interesting to see whether Terry Ryan admits that he is wrong.

About who should replace him? I think that it is about time that the Twins see what Cole DeVries have. He is the best P in Rochester (other than Hendriks) right now.

This cannot be right! Terry Ryan was a genious... a long time ago

stringer bell
05-20-2012, 03:24 PM
I don't see any upside to Marquis staying with the team, much less the rotation. It is batting practice, he doesn't throw enough strikes to get hitters to chase and he can't make 'em swing and miss. I also don't want to see the bullpen messed with too much, it seems that the Twins have lots of bullpen options and the starting options are not at all attractive. Moving either Duensing or Swarzak out of the 'pen to the rotation would make sense.

Shane Wahl
05-20-2012, 03:25 PM
Yes, Rochester is the best place for him now. I just get it in my head that when someone is this terrible they need to be sent packing entirely. I mean a waste of money either way, right? But, yes. DeVries is next.

mikeee
05-20-2012, 05:02 PM
DFA Marquis and make Butera a pitcher...

ashburyjohn
05-20-2012, 05:49 PM
The bottom like is that the interim GM made a $3 million mistake. Would be interesting to see whether Terry Ryan admits that he is wrong.

Now that Butera has mastered the art of pitching and catching, maybe he's bored and would like to take a crack at GMing in Ryan's place.

YourHouseIsMyHouse
05-20-2012, 05:53 PM
His showing today was pathetic to say the least. Nearly every pitch I saw was a hanging breaking ball or a mediocre fastball down main street. Then the command problems came and I just about lost it. I don't expect much from Marquis (I didn't expect a win either), but that was honestly the worst I have ever seen a pitcher perform. Ever. Cut him loose and move on. He's done enough damage to the Twins in 6 weeks to ever play for them again. He's washed up and never really was more than a #5 pitcher in his career. Now that he's bottomed out even more and is 33, I can't see any time with the Red Wings helping him anyway.

Yoshii
05-20-2012, 06:38 PM
Obv. he should be DFA, only a matter of hours now.

No Rochester.

Seth Stohs
05-20-2012, 07:49 PM
Sending him to Rochester makes no sense for a 35-36 year old. Marquis has had too solid of a career for too long to do that to him. DFA is the only way. Hendriks is the Red Wings best starter, but I think he should get more than 3-4 starts down there. It's all about what's best long term, and that's Hendriks being used/moved wisely. It's also about seeing what you have in the likes of DeVries/Walters (and Slama, etc.).

Alex
05-20-2012, 08:15 PM
That ^^^^

The bottom like is that the interim GM made a $3 million mistake. Would be interesting to see whether Terry Ryan admits that he is wrong.

.

There's not a massive enough mistake involved in a one-year $3M deal that's worth getting worried about whether he admits to it, IMO. It's compounded by a lack of depth and the entire rest of the original starters being injured or terrible, as well as the fact that it was the one lone addition, but in and of itself just not a big deal.

whydidnt
05-20-2012, 08:28 PM
There's not a massive enough mistake involved in a one-year $3M deal that's worth getting worried about whether he admits to it, IMO. It's compounded by a lack of depth and the entire rest of the original starters being injured or terrible, as well as the fact that it was the one lone addition, but in and of itself just not a big deal.
This is the real issue. He over rated the current starters and depth, then compounded the problem by bringing in a guy who is lousy. It's interesting that we see these old guys with questionable stats/stuff come here, get blown up even more than before and then pop up again elsewhere with decent results for short periods. Have we ever had any sustained performance from one of these old horses coming off a bad season? Pavano doesn't count, he was pitching well before he got here. I don't remember one, so why do we keep wasting millions on them? Even 3 million is a lot when you are cutting payroll.

Alex
05-20-2012, 08:39 PM
I don't disagree with this, though I don't think 3M is much for a starter. While I agree that most could see the staff was in trouble, I don't think anyone really thought they would be this bad, nor that absolutely everything that could have gone wrong with them would. Even if Ryan would have assumed the worst, not sure what he could have done other than sign someone else for the fifth spot. The four other spots were locked in and the players in those spots had little to no trade value. It's not likely they could have signed someone to sit in Rochester who would have wanted to or been a decent upgrade. Though, it is a reason I was disappointed they dropped Doyle, for depth purposes.

TKGuy
05-20-2012, 09:38 PM
Duensing has been great in relief, I would leave him there. Unfortunately, I think Marquis needs to go. I'd love to see DeVries, but Manship is going for Rochester tomorrow. If the youth movement is on, I'd like to see Slama and Guerra and cut ties with Gray for sure, and eventually Burton, although I don't believe he deserves to go yet.

skraft33
05-20-2012, 10:32 PM
I don't see there being any way for the Twins to rationalize giving Marquis another start.

striker_86
05-20-2012, 10:59 PM
how was this guy ever good enough to be worth a 2 year 15 million contract with Washington a few years ago?. Please, someone explain.....

skraft33
05-20-2012, 11:03 PM
how was this guy ever good enough to be worth a 2 year 15 million contract with Washington a few years ago?. Please, someone explain.....
15 wins can really make teams go wild. He also threw 216 innings the previous year with COL, which is good, but had a 4.8 K/9 as well, which is baaaaaaaad.

SirLoin
05-20-2012, 11:05 PM
The timing of DFA'ing Marquis and bringing up DeVries works pretty well, considering DeVries started yesterday. And while we're at it, can we end the Jeff Gray experiment already? Butera looks like a more effective relief pitcher for God's sake. As long as we're in the business of seeing what we have in players at AAA, isn't it about time we see what we have in Slama?

gil4
05-20-2012, 11:33 PM
Now that Butera has mastered the art of pitching and catching, maybe he's bored and would like to take a crack at GMing in Ryan's place.

Maybe he should try NFL QB. Even Brady can't throw and catch - ask Gisele.

Shane Wahl
05-20-2012, 11:46 PM
Ok, well, I guess DFA is what I meant by Rochester.

glunn
05-21-2012, 12:25 AM
If there is even a 1% chance of Marquis getting back to being decent, it seems to me that Rochester makes sense, assuming that he is willing to go.

I see two reasons for this.

First, if he did make a comeback, he would have some value. And we have no way of knowing how much he has been affected by his child's injury. Maybe there is still some gas in his tank, and he will get better as his child recovers.

Second, this would reduce the need to bring up someone from AA if the Twins call up a starter from Rochester.

Dilligaf69
05-21-2012, 11:17 AM
Sending him to Rochester makes no sense for a 35-36 year old. Marquis has had too solid of a career for too long to do that to him. DFA is the only way. Hendriks is the Red Wings best starter, but I think he should get more than 3-4 starts down there. It's all about what's best long term, and that's Hendriks being used/moved wisely. It's also about seeing what you have in the likes of DeVries/Walters (and Slama, etc.).


I agree with Seth here....Hendriks needs more starts at Rochester, you can always recall him later in the summer. Much rather give Marquis spot to DeVries....If Pavano's next start is pushed back I think Swarzak gets the nod.

USAFChief
05-21-2012, 11:27 AM
I'd DFA him and put Liriano back in the rotation.

Nick Nelson
05-21-2012, 11:58 AM
I personally believe DeVries will get crushed in the majors. I'd just as soon recall Hendriks since he's already on the 40-man and he's pitched very well since going down to Rochester.

Twinsfan2284
05-21-2012, 12:21 PM
I understand that Marquis has been bad, but honestly, what were people expecting. He was signed to be a back-end of the rotation guy, with the potential to at least eat innings and Pavano-lite. But anyone thinking that cutting him is going to make a drastic difference is kidding themselves.

As far as who should replace him, Duensing should stay in the bullpen. We have seen this experiment the past two years. He was okay in 2010 and was drilled in 2011 (after teams figured him out), but his skillset in getting out left-handed batters lends itself best to the bullpen.

If I had a vote, it would probably be Swarzak to take Marquis' place. He has started before in both the majors and minors, has shown the ability to be tolerable (i.e. a back of the rotation guy), and who knows, if he pitches well, we may be able swap him for some sort of mediocre prospect at the deadline if he pitches well and some team is desparate for a back-end starter (albeit very unlikely). And hey...he can't be any worse as a starter than Marquis, right? This move will also make way in the bullpen for us to bring up one of our many right-handed relievers in the minors (Slama, Waldrop, etc...). And I think at this point I would rather put Slama on the 40 man than Cole Devries.

This team is not contending this year, so I don't want to jeapordize assets (read: serviceable players) that we have (Hendricks as a starter, Deunsing as a bullpen guy) to try and find a 5th starter on the last place team in all of baseball. We have righty bullpen assets in the minors and I think Hendricks could use some extended time in Triple A to develop some consistency.

Anyway...just my two cents...

YourHouseIsMyHouse
05-21-2012, 12:24 PM
I personally believe DeVries will get crushed in the majors. I'd just as soon recall Hendriks since he's already on the 40-man and he's pitched very well since going down to Rochester.

I think Devries would perform better than Marquis, but I agree that Hendriks should be the one getting starts. Slama or Guerra should replace Jeff Gray as well for a new sweep of transactions. I don't think anyone was surprised how poorly Gray did in the 16-4 loss. His ERA was so misleading and he was due to get shelled. Up to that point, he was one of the luckiest pitchers this season.

DAM DC Twins Fans
05-21-2012, 12:33 PM
I'd DFA him and put Liriano back in the rotation.

NO NO NOT Liriano...dont put him back in rotation till at least the AS Break.

I would bring up Slama for the pen and move Swarzek to the rotation and DFA Marquis

StormJH1
05-21-2012, 12:49 PM
Pains me to say we should DFA him, but that seems to be the move. The only reason they're not doing it is that the depth is already hurting pretty badly at SP.

That 3 million dollars should have been used on two or three washed up relievers (hoping for a Jared Burton-type find) or combined with Carroll's money for a better 2B or 3B option. All the Twins did for years was draft "safe" guys that had upside as a 5th starter, and then they go and sign a 5th starter anyway. Never made sense to me.

mike wants wins
05-21-2012, 01:01 PM
Seth....trying to keep the Slama train alive....good for you....

Alex
05-21-2012, 01:09 PM
Seth....trying to keep the Slama train alive....good for you....

Is anyone "with access" asking this question? It'd be nice if they were.

Yoshii
05-21-2012, 01:29 PM
The big question is why haven't we heard the DFA announcement about Marquis yet?

stringer bell
05-21-2012, 01:44 PM
I think there are probably six relief pitchers more big-league ready than any starter in the Twins' minor league organization. Slama, Fien, Oliveros, Manship, Guerra and Waldrop, off the top of my head. Add to this that there is already one too many relievers on the ML club and this situation cries for stretching out relievers and putting them in the rotation. Probably in July, the situation will cry for trading relievers. Manship and Swarzak have always seemed like the same guy to me, with Swarzak having more durability. Both seem to do better in long relief than as starters.

wavedog
05-21-2012, 01:51 PM
Marquis performance got me to thinking about how great it is to be a baseball player. $3M this year guaranteed - probably more than I will make in my working lifetime - for stinking it up out there. I am not questioning his effort but how did the bottom fall out so quickly or better yet how did the Front Office miss on this. If I was the owner I would be getting pretty irritated over some of these money for nothing decisions on Nishi and Marquis. Add that to the fact of injuries to all the big salary players in the past few years Nathan, Morneau, Mauer and Baker and that has to be pretty frustrating.

mike wants wins
05-21-2012, 01:51 PM
DFA Marquis, let Manship and Swarzak start/go for half a game /whatever. That combo can't be any worse than Marquis.

SweetOne69
05-21-2012, 02:30 PM
The big question is why haven't we heard the DFA announcement about Marquis yet?

Marquis' spot in the rotation won't come up again until Friday (Saturday if they push Pavano back a day), so they won't DFA him (assuming that they do) until Wednesday or Thursday.

They have to answer the question "Who is going to Start on Thursday?" if they give Pavano an extra day of rest, before they deal with the Marquis problem.

Nick Nelson
05-21-2012, 03:03 PM
Too bad the Twins didn't sign Bedard instead of Marquis during the offseason.

Shane Wahl
05-21-2012, 03:17 PM
Too bad the Twins didn't sign Bedard instead of Marquis during the offseason.

Yeah there is something to be said about taking players--in such scenarios--who haven't merely been average the majority of their careers, but who have excelled and dealt with injuries. Zumaya didn't work, but Burton did. Now if they would just apply that to acquiring starting pitchers.

Thrylos
05-21-2012, 03:27 PM
Too bad the Twins didn't sign Bedard instead of Marquis during the offseason.

Agreed, but in order for that to happen, the Twins need to make changes in the FO and field management staff. Here is why the Twins (incorrectly) valued Marquis over Bedard:

a. He has thrown more than 200 innings a few times in his career (equated in their brains with a "workhorse")
b. He is a ground ball pitcher who pitches to contact and generates ground balls.

Unless they hire decision makers who value missing bats and K/9 more than GB/FB and IP, this team will keep overvaluing the Marquises and the Pavanos (and the Blac_burns) of the world. That simple

Highabove
05-21-2012, 03:32 PM
Too bad the Twins didn't sign Bedard instead of Marquis during the offseason.

Bedard signed with Pittsburgh for 4.5 million,

Ryan decided to go cheap and scrape the bottom of the Barrel, resulting in the total waste of 3 million dollars.

The Twins could not go a few dollars over their self imposed budget. A small market move.

snepp
05-21-2012, 04:00 PM
They would have had an additional 5 million to play with if not for the horrendous decision to bring back Capps so unnecessarily early in the offseason.


The more I think about it the more it ends up pissing me off due to it being almost completely indefensible.

Cris E
05-21-2012, 05:53 PM
Ryan decided to go cheap and scrape the bottom of the Barrel, resulting in the total waste of 3 million dollars.

I think they really felt that Marquis is a healthier guy than Bedard and stood a better chance of throwing 180-200 IP. The money was probably secondary given how much trouble the team has had with health over the past few years, and doubly so with Baker's elbow being a question mark over the winter. The problems with this roster have more to do with assumptions and evaluations than with cheapness.