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View Full Version : Article: Valencia Optioned to Rochester (More Moves, Maloney, Mastroianni, Walters)



Seth Stohs
05-09-2012, 10:25 PM
You can view the page at http://www.twinsdaily.com/content.php?528-Valencia-Optioned-to-Rochester

adjacent
05-09-2012, 10:29 PM
May be the change of hitting coach will help

Rosterman
05-09-2012, 10:33 PM
Where is Ben Revere.

zchrz
05-09-2012, 10:34 PM
so now we have 3 catchers + 13 pitchers + 6 possible outfielders defiantly a well constructed roster.

Mauer463
05-09-2012, 10:35 PM
With the current state of the rotation I think the Twins have just decided to scrap the 3B position altogether and put all hands on deck in the outfield.

Jeremy Nygaard
05-09-2012, 10:36 PM
Who is the starting 3B?! I would assume Plouffe will get a crack at it. Carroll and Casilla will get their licks too, especially if Mastroianni gets any time at 2B. Interesting moves...

peterb18
05-09-2012, 10:36 PM
Good moves at this time! Valencia needs a change of scenery. He will always be a journeyman, at best. Swing is too long--can't handle, or is a sucker for the outside and low breaking ball. Similar to what Cuddyer would always fall for! Besides, Valencia will not be a part of the future with the infielders coming up in a few years.

stringer bell
05-09-2012, 10:38 PM
It occurs to me that Plouffe is an infielder again. It also occurs to me that the bottom half of the roster isn't important. I don't know what the official spin on Valencia's demotion will be, but the word "humbling" comes to me. Also "tuneup". Valencia could go either way--come back with a vengence or continue his slide from regular on a division winner to .....Triple A third baseman. I hope Maloney gets through to Rochester. I liked what I saw of him in spring training and I think he could be an effective starter, but he doesn't seem cut out for the bullpen.

Nate Palmer
05-09-2012, 10:41 PM
If anything it sends the message that players will begin to be held responsible for performance. Liriano needs to figure something out! I would think Carroll would be the 3B. Not to sure if Gardy wants to see Plouffe throwing across the diamond too much again this season.

jorgenswest
05-09-2012, 10:42 PM
I don't think either Walters or Mastroianni will be with the team for the duration, but I can't disagree with moving Valencia or Maloney.

Valencia does not help with the bat or glove and has little value on the bench. He lived off his mirage of a high babip his rookie season. This is his season to step it up or disappear. Still a chance he will get hot in AAA and get another chance. Most likely his best year in his career will have been his first.

It is unlikely anyone will pick up Maloney. If the Twins retain him, I hope he goes into the Rochester rotation. Lefties will always get more shots and sometimes develop later as a result.

Not sure how Mastroianni fits with Komatsu as an extra OF that are poor PH options. I don't know why they need two of them. Seems redundant though they did give Mastroianni did play 5 games at 2B. That doesn't make him a good option at 2B. Any chance the Twins will have a claim in for Blake DeWitt?

I would guess Walters will be a long reliever. I don't see anything encouraging in his minor league numbers. I would have rather seen them look at Slama. Do they really need 13 pitchers?

Bark's Lounge
05-09-2012, 10:46 PM
Well, I guess this is no surprise. Not too excited about Carroll and Casilla playing the hot corner. As far as Plouffe playing 3B, I'd have to see it to believe it. I hope they let him have a shot without a short leash. Overall this is a move that should have been made. Maloney for Walters is a wash. Maybe Walters will catch some lightning in a bottle.

gunnarthor
05-09-2012, 10:53 PM
Seems like the right thing to do at the time. I think Casilla's arm should be good enough for third. Walters is sorta intriguing. Seems to have a decent krate at least. Maybe he can stick.

darin617
05-09-2012, 10:55 PM
If anything it sends the message that players will begin to be held responsible for performance. Liriano needs to figure something out! I would think Carroll would be the 3B. Not to sure if Gardy wants to see Plouffe throwing across the diamond too much again this season.

A little late to start holding players responsible for sucking. Not sure Gardy wants to stick around much longer...

glanzer
05-09-2012, 10:56 PM
Well I got my wish. I haven't been liking what I've seen from Danny all season and was calling for his demotion long before his 0-for-whatever skid. If Danny was put in a situation to succeed and help the team, he inevitably failed, which tells me his problems are more mental than physical, trying too hard perhaps.

Too bad for Maloney. A resurgence (or surgence?) from him would have been a feel-good story. Still never understood Bill Smith adding him to the 40-man roster right away in the winter.

I'm a Gardy fan and am not interested in discussing him being fired, but what does this say about his roster construction out of spring training? How could he have been so wrong about so many of the players he hand-selected to head north with the team?

USAFChief
05-09-2012, 10:59 PM
At long last...Mauer to 3b!

I wish.

striker_86
05-09-2012, 11:04 PM
Bout time! Put Carroll at 3rd. Well see how this new pitcher does on Saturday.

stringer bell
05-09-2012, 11:06 PM
Gotta believe that Carroll plays third every time before Casilla goes over there. I would think Plouffe plays third before they would use Casilla. Carroll has played over 200 games at 3B, Casilla has played 19 innings (1 start).

jimbo92107
05-09-2012, 11:06 PM
Feels like the team is not so slowly disintegrating.

Whatever.

deanlambrecht
05-09-2012, 11:24 PM
Atteberry was reporting on the postgame radio broadcast that Walters was up for Liriano to go to the bullpen. Maybe that's already common knowledge, but it's the first I've heard of it. Anyone?

Edit to add: LEN3 reporting it at Strib: http://www.startribune.com/sports/twins/blogs/150885045.html

Snortwood
05-09-2012, 11:42 PM
At long last...Mauer to 3b!

I wish.

See Joe's throw into Albert's backside this evening? He's got a soft glove, and good footwork, and a great arm. Just - he needs to work on the angles out in the field some. Give him time and he could be an excellent third baseman. But - does that mean we're stuck with Drew & Doumit behind the plate for the duration? One can hit but hasn't got a position on a team with a $20M DH, and the other one can't hit the gaps more than a few times per year.

However - to the point: Valencia was a mess behind the plate and, if he wasn't willing to do whatever was required to fix the problem, well, if this team needs to make an example of somebody, nothing wrong with choosing a guy who isn't contributing at the moment but at least has a chance to right the ship in the minors.

J-Dog Dungan
05-09-2012, 11:45 PM
This is interesting...what are the chances that Maloney is claimed by another team? And I think that Carroll will be moved to 3b. As I am from Eden Prairie, I am interested in how long it will be before the Twins call up EP native Cole DeVries, because I think that he is the 3rd pitcher down in AAA behind Diamond and Walters.

Riverbrian
05-10-2012, 12:08 AM
I believe Burroughs is in Rochester thinking. VELENCIA!!! I just got away from him and now he's following me. I went from the majors to AAA backup in a month.

Shane Wahl
05-10-2012, 12:18 AM
Good moves. Hopefully Walters starts and Liriano is sent to the 'pen.

USAFChief
05-10-2012, 12:53 AM
so now we have 3 catchers + 13 pitchers + 6 possible outfielders defiantly a well constructed roster.

Well stated. ;)

ScottyB
05-10-2012, 07:05 AM
At long last...Mauer to 3b!

I wish.

In the long run, this would be the smart move - because Migy Sano @ 3B is like Migy Cabrerra @ 3B - kinda scary. If Sano doesn't improve his fielding he'll either be at 1B or DH.

This clearly isn't the final structure of this year's roster.

twinswon1991
05-10-2012, 07:10 AM
Who needs power out of the corner infield positions! Between Mauer and Carroll the Twins may not get 5 homers this year. The Twins are a laughingstock!!!

SweetOne69
05-10-2012, 08:10 AM
Too bad for Maloney. A resurgence (or surgence?) from him would have been a feel-good story. Still never understood Bill Smith adding him to the 40-man roster right away in the winter.

Maloney was claimed on waivers so he had to be added to the 40-man roster, Smith didn't have a choice. The only other option was to wait to see if he cleared waivers and then try to sign him to a minor league contract.

Boom Boom
05-10-2012, 08:20 AM
With another outfielder coming up, I would imagine that Plouffe will have the opportunity to play most of the time at 3B.

Boom Boom
05-10-2012, 08:22 AM
Maloney was claimed on waivers so he had to be added to the 40-man roster, Smith didn't have a choice. The only other option was to wait to see if he cleared waivers and then try to sign him to a minor league contract.

Actually he did have a choice - pass on Maloney and sign a different journeyman pitcher to a minor league deal. For some reason Smith liked Maloney enough to take that risk.

Thrylos
05-10-2012, 08:36 AM
Not sure that I like the pitching moves, because:

- Maloney was not the worse pitcher in the Twins' pen, it was Gray
- Walters was not the best starter in Rochester, it was DeVries
- Liriano was not the worse Twins' starter, it was Marquis (or very close, and Liriano has been trending better)
- I don't think that Liriano has much future with the Twins and by demoting him to the pen they decrease his trading value. And at this point they better think trading value instead of 2012 wins.


As far as Valencia goes. Yes, he did not meet expectations this season but his defense has been better. And the Twins do not have a third baseman out there. Maybe Carroll can fill in. Hope Brunanksy set his straight. But recalling Mastroianni? Not sure that this makes sense with Komatsu being on the team. (Not sure that Komatsu bein on the team makes sense either.) All I know is that the Twins took away a guy who if straighten up can hit for power and brought in a pirnaha...

PopRiveter
05-10-2012, 09:15 AM
I don't see them trying to "send a message" or crack down on underperformers by demoting Valencia. I think they're just trying to help him get right. If he is reasonably in control of his game, he should hit .275 with 15 hr and 75 RBI. He is nowhere near that level of play right now, but he has the upside of a solid, middle of the road starter. Most of the other 3B options with the team (@ the upper levels) don't project as starters. Get him right or try to develop Plouffe as a 3rd baseman.

Mr. Ed
05-10-2012, 09:22 AM
Not sure that I like the pitching moves, because:

- Maloney was not the worse pitcher in the Twins' pen, it was Gray
- Walters was not the best starter in Rochester, it was DeVries
- Liriano was not the worse Twins' starter, it was Marquis (or very close, and Liriano has been trending better)
- I don't think that Liriano has much future with the Twins and by demoting him to the pen they decrease his trading value. And at this point they better think trading value instead of 2012 wins.


As far as Valencia goes. Yes, he did not meet expectations this season but his defense has been better. And the Twins do not have a third baseman out there. Maybe Carroll can fill in. Hope Brunanksy set his straight. But recalling Mastroianni? Not sure that this makes sense with Komatsu being on the team. (Not sure that Komatsu bein on the team makes sense either.) All I know is that the Twins took away a guy who if straighten up can hit for power and brought in a pirnaha...

Moves for moves' sake. Mastro and Komatsu are the same. No one else to bring up at this point, thanks to the putrid depth in position players.


FOUR slap-hitting CF types now on the 40 man roster. Yuck.

Would have been better IF:

Burroughs had hit; Valencia hits lefties, would have been a decent platoon option.

Morneau injury
Insistence of carrying 13 pitchers

As for trending? eh, who cares. Those fancy stats don't mean much. It's what they see and go on gut feeling.:cool:

gunnarthor
05-10-2012, 09:31 AM
Not sure that I like the pitching moves, because:

- Maloney was not the worse pitcher in the Twins' pen, it was Gray
- Walters was not the best starter in Rochester, it was DeVries
- Liriano was not the worse Twins' starter, it was Marquis (or very close, and Liriano has been trending better)
- I don't think that Liriano has much future with the Twins and by demoting him to the pen they decrease his trading value. And at this point they better think trading value instead of 2012 wins.


As far as Valencia goes. Yes, he did not meet expectations this season but his defense has been better. And the Twins do not have a third baseman out there. Maybe Carroll can fill in. Hope Brunanksy set his straight. But recalling Mastroianni? Not sure that this makes sense with Komatsu being on the team. (Not sure that Komatsu bein on the team makes sense either.) All I know is that the Twins took away a guy who if straighten up can hit for power and brought in a pirnaha...

I'm ok with sending Valencia down. He's not getting it done here for whatever reason. A 36 OPS+ makes Punto look like a power hitter. If he gets straightened out at AAA, they can (and will) bring him back. But the reality is, since 2011 he's posted a .238/.281/.369 (78 OPS+) line. That's horrible in every respect. And his defense is still below average.

Gernzy
05-10-2012, 09:32 AM
Not sure that I like the pitching moves, because:

- Maloney was not the worse pitcher in the Twins' pen, it was Gray
- Walters was not the best starter in Rochester, it was DeVries
- Liriano was not the worse Twins' starter, it was Marquis (or very close, and Liriano has been trending better)
- I don't think that Liriano has much future with the Twins and by demoting him to the pen they decrease his trading value. And at this point they better think trading value instead of 2012 wins.


As far as Valencia goes. Yes, he did not meet expectations this season but his defense has been better. And the Twins do not have a third baseman out there. Maybe Carroll can fill in. Hope Brunanksy set his straight. But recalling Mastroianni? Not sure that this makes sense with Komatsu being on the team. (Not sure that Komatsu bein on the team makes sense either.) All I know is that the Twins took away a guy who if straighten up can hit for power and brought in a pirnaha...

I heard that DeVries just pitched the other day and we need Walters for Saturday. I know that went into the decision. DeVries will get his chance this season for sure.

Shane Wahl
05-10-2012, 10:19 AM
Not sure that I like the pitching moves, because:

- Maloney was not the worse pitcher in the Twins' pen, it was Gray
- Walters was not the best starter in Rochester, it was DeVries
- Liriano was not the worse Twins' starter, it was Marquis (or very close, and Liriano has been trending better)
- I don't think that Liriano has much future with the Twins and by demoting him to the pen they decrease his trading value. And at this point they better think trading value instead of 2012 wins.


As far as Valencia goes. Yes, he did not meet expectations this season but his defense has been better. And the Twins do not have a third baseman out there. Maybe Carroll can fill in. Hope Brunanksy set his straight. But recalling Mastroianni? Not sure that this makes sense with Komatsu being on the team. (Not sure that Komatsu bein on the team makes sense either.) All I know is that the Twins took away a guy who if straighten up can hit for power and brought in a pirnaha...

1--Maloney is worse than Gray. At least Gray can evade bats a little bit. Maloney was getting pounded. Of course they both should be gone. Anthony Slama replacing Jeff Gray is the blatantly obvious move and the organization needs to be pressed on this issue by the media.

2--DeVries just pitched, otherwise it probably would have been him.

3--Liriano has been worse than Marquis. I am not sure how you think otherwise. And if we are talking about sending a guy to the bullpen, at least Liriano might be able to be effective in one inning stints. Marquis doesn't seem like a viable bullpen option other than to replace Anthony Swarzak.

4--Liriano's trade value will be decreased if the difference between his performance as starter and his performance as reliever are only slightly different. But if Liriano is good in his role as a reliever (and by this, I mean as a valid LOOGY or setup man), his value is going to be maximized vs. this starting nonsense. The most likely thing is that he is starting again in a month, and that is probably going to lead to a disaster.

5--A platoon at 3rd might have worked with Burroughs. Who knows if Burroughs couldn't have hit .250 or better if given such a chance. But now it is going to be Jamey Carroll and Trevor Plouffe manning third. Plouffe's turn to play and stay or suck and and duck (not sure what that means, but I was committed to the rhyme).

6--Yeah, the Komatsu signing was a bit odd to me, but they apparently want a left-handed bat in the OF. Mastroianni will be good for what they need him to do. Late-inning OF defense will be improved, he will steal bases when pinch-hitting and who knows . . . maybe he overperforms for a few weeks in some spot starts. I am not sure who else they should bring up (Chang?).

SweetOne69
05-10-2012, 11:28 AM
Actually he did have a choice - pass on Maloney and sign a different journeyman pitcher to a minor league deal. For some reason Smith liked Maloney enough to take that risk.


While you are correct, I was responding to why Maloney was immediately added to the 40-man roster. When Smith claimed Maloney off of waivers he had to add him to the 40-man roster.

Alex
05-10-2012, 01:24 PM
The only way the Twins are going to get any value out of Liriano is if he becomes an effective reliever. If he can actually thrive in that role, teams may forget about him starting, or better yet, they might think that he could be an effective reliever eventually become a starter for them.

I think they need to waive/demote another pitcher, or maybe trade one of them. I can't believe they are still carrying 13. 3 catchers is fine, if Mauer's still being bothered by that knee. If he's not, well, then with the rest of the roster set up the way it is, it's inexcusable.

SweetOne69
05-10-2012, 01:52 PM
I think they need to waive/demote another pitcher, or maybe trade one of them. I can't believe they are still carrying 13. 3 catchers is fine, if Mauer's still being bothered by that knee. If he's not, well, then with the rest of the roster set up the way it is, it's inexcusable.

While I agree that carrying 13 pitchers needs to be corrected, I think that when Morneau gets back from the DL that Parmelee will be sent to Rochester and Mauer and Doumit will alternate between C and 1B (with Morneau playing occasionally) and Butera will actually be the true backup catcher. Kind of like what was initially planned before they decided to keep Parmelee.

Alex
05-10-2012, 02:22 PM
While I agree that carrying 13 pitchers needs to be corrected, I think that when Morneau gets back from the DL that Parmelee will be sent to Rochester and Mauer and Doumit will alternate between C and 1B (with Morneau playing occasionally) and Butera will actually be the true backup catcher. Kind of like what was initially planned before they decided to keep Parmelee.

I actually think Morneau is going to be playing there more often, and I think one reason they decided to keep Parmelee was because Morneau was set to DH. If they keep Butera and use Doumit and Mauer as you describe, I understand the reasoning behind 3 catchers, but my point was that that's even more reason to drop that 13th pitcher.

ltwedt
05-10-2012, 02:37 PM
I'm confused - . . . so we called up . . . Another outfielder?????????

adjacent
05-10-2012, 02:41 PM
The only way the Twins are going to get any value out of Liriano is if he becomes an effective reliever. If he can actually thrive in that role, teams may forget about him starting, or better yet, they might think that he could be an effective reliever eventually become a starter for them.

I think they need to waive/demote another pitcher, or maybe trade one of them. I can't believe they are still carrying 13. 3 catchers is fine, if Mauer's still being bothered by that knee. If he's not, well, then with the rest of the roster set up the way it is, it's inexcusable.
I agree that 13 pitchers is 1 or 2 too many, but what can you do if the starters routinely don't pass the 4th inning?

Blake
05-10-2012, 08:04 PM
What the F*** is Doumit doing behind the plate? The man is a defensive train wreck. The only time Doumit should be on the field is shagging fly balls.