PDA

View Full Version : Diamond pulled after three shutout innings...



Seth Stohs
05-04-2012, 07:41 PM
The assumption is that he will be promoted to be in the Twins rotation. Have to assume that Hendriks would be optioned to Rochester.

Ultima Ratio
05-04-2012, 07:47 PM
Oh whew.... When I say the headline I immediately thought TJ surgery needed.... it's just how things have been going.

Jeremy Nygaard
05-04-2012, 07:50 PM
Did I read or dream the quote about Diamond's start being short tonight in case he was needed next week at Target Field? I must have read it, because my dreams raring make sense (or come true).


(I read it here: LINK (http://www.1500espn.com/sportswire/Gardenhire_hints_at_possible_changes_We_cant_conti nue_like_this050412))

greengoblinrulz
05-04-2012, 09:06 PM
Hendrix needs to regain his confidence........numbers dont show it but I think he's pitched well over Sept/April but just missing that one pitch to get him over (not counting last 2 starts....hit hard)

fittdogg
05-04-2012, 09:27 PM
Does it matter if it's Hendriks or Diamond? Both will give up 6 runs a start.

nicksaviking
05-04-2012, 10:11 PM
I really want to get excited about Diamond, but it's hard to be positive about a 25-year-old rookie who can't top 7.0 K/9 in AAA and who's career minor league WHIP is 1.40.

Thrylos
05-05-2012, 12:01 AM
I think that Hendriks will eventually be in AAA where he needs to be, but I think that Swarzak has pitched better than Diamond (and Cole DeVries too) this season. And (hate to say this and I hope he proves me wrong) Diamond will not do much better in the bigs this season than he did last season.

Shane Wahl
05-05-2012, 12:25 AM
I think that Hendriks will eventually be in AAA where he needs to be, but I think that Swarzak has pitched better than Diamond (and Cole DeVries too) this season. And (hate to say this and I hope he proves me wrong) Diamond will not do much better in the bigs this season than he did last season.

Totally disagree. Swarzak has been poor as a starter this season. And he hadn't been good in the minors since 2007. Other than last year, Diamond has been good. Not great, but good.

Alex
05-05-2012, 12:38 AM
Interestingly, the Twins Rule 5 pick, Terry Doyle, returned to his old team, has incredibly similar numbers to Scott Diamond at AAA. Diamond does have a better ERA (1.3 Difference) while Doyle has better K/9 (2.4 diff). For walks,they're both under 2/9.

My point here is that, had they felt Doyle was worth the pick I would have preferred they give him a longer look. He could have been kept in the pen for a bit and could have added some possible depth, even if he is the same pitcher as Diamond.

Seth Stohs
05-05-2012, 01:28 AM
Does it matter if it's Hendriks or Diamond? Both will give up 6 runs a start.

Not for 2012, but in the long run, it's the best thing for Hendriks who is a legitimate prospect. It's best for him to be in Rochester.

Seth Stohs
05-05-2012, 01:31 AM
Interestingly, the Twins Rule 5 pick, Terry Doyle, returned to his old team, has incredibly similar numbers to Scott Diamond at AAA. Diamond does have a better ERA (1.3 Difference) while Doyle has better K/9 (2.4 diff). For walks,they're both under 2/9.

My point here is that, had they felt Doyle was worth the pick I would have preferred they give him a longer look. He could have been kept in the pen for a bit and could have added some possible depth, even if he is the same pitcher as Diamond.

Makes sense that Diamond and Doyle had similar solid minor league numbers. Diamond was younger and so a little more upside. He also had never posted an ERA over like 3.30 at any level, including AAA. Doyle was a little older, but based on his success last year, I agree that if they believed in him enough to Rule 5 him, they should have given him more than a handful of innings before they gave up on him. I hope he does well.

twinsnorth49
05-05-2012, 02:05 AM
I think that Hendriks will eventually be in AAA where he needs to be, but I think that Swarzak has pitched better than Diamond (and Cole DeVries too) this season. And (hate to say this and I hope he proves me wrong) Diamond will not do much better in the bigs this season than he did last season.


Not for 2012, but in the long run, it's the best thing for Hendriks who is a legitimate prospect. It's best for him to be in Rochester.

Here, here. It's disappointing to see so many guys on this board want to just cut Hendriks adrift, makes no sense. He would have been in Rochester if Baker didn't go down and he should be there now.

striker_86
05-05-2012, 01:27 PM
I suppose its worth a shot. Diamond cant pitch much worse than Hendricks, can he?

Riverbrian
05-05-2012, 01:49 PM
Pavano 4.62
Marquis 6.23
Blackburn 6.64
Hendriks 9.00
Liriano 9.97

Swarzak 4.64

Should Diamond get a shot. Those Numbers kind of answer the question.

Pavano, Baker, Liriano, Blackburn and Marquis are 28.75 Million dollars worth of rotation.

Swarzak, Hendriks, Diamond, AAA guy and AAA guy will lose just as many games for the Value of 2.5 Million.

Shane Wahl
05-05-2012, 01:56 PM
Pavano 4.62
Marquis 6.23
Blackburn 6.64
Hendriks 9.00
Liriano 9.97

Swarzak 4.64

Should Diamond get a shot. Those Numbers kind of answer the question.

Pavano, Baker, Liriano, Blackburn and Marquis are 28.75 Million dollars worth of rotation.

Swarzak, Hendriks, Diamond, AAA guy and AAA guy will lose just as many games for the Value of 2.5 Million.

A. Keep in mind that Swarzak's numbers as a starter are worse.
B. Add P.J. Walters and Cole DeVries as those last two guys.
C. This is what drives me crazy over the years with the team. It isn't the total amount of money spent. It's the garbage money spent here and there that adds up to tens of millions of dollars for REPLACEMENT (or worse) level play.

twinsnorth49
05-05-2012, 02:21 PM
A. Keep in mind that Swarzak's numbers as a starter are worse.
B. Add P.J. Walters and Cole DeVries as those last two guys.
C. This is what drives me crazy over the years with the team. It isn't the total amount of money spent. It's the garbage money spent here and there that adds up to tens of millions of dollars for REPLACEMENT (or worse) level play.

Drives you crazy with this team? Garbage money gets spent with every team, it's the nature of the business.

Riverbrian
05-05-2012, 02:37 PM
Drives you crazy with this team? Garbage money gets spent with every team, it's the nature of the business.

Yeah, it is the nature of the business but way too much nature with our Twins. So much nature that Trees are growing out of Gardenhires nostrils.

Mauer 23M
Morneau 15M
Pavano 9M
Baker 6M
Liriano 5.5M
Blackburn 4.75M

Can you say that we are getting 62.75 Million worth of production out of 6 of our top 7 salaries.
Let's add Jamey Carroll 38 years old and $2.75M

Now you are looking at 65.5 million for 7 players. Tampa Bay's Payroll is 65 Million. (I know this is a bad example. Tampa Bay has been a model Farm system and is producing young talent and more young talent to keep them World Series threats so thats a tough grading curve.)

The Twins owners have shown that they will spend a little so I don't believe that is the issue. It's the nature of what we are spending it on. The Nature of the Business has been a F5 Tornado. It's leveling the town. When do we call FEMA.

twinsnorth49
05-05-2012, 03:15 PM
Yeah, it is the nature of the business but way too much nature with our Twins. So much nature that Trees are growing out of Gardenhires nostrils.

Mauer 23M
Morneau 15M
Pavano 9M
Baker 6M
Liriano 5.5M
Blackburn 4.75M

Can you say that we are getting 62.75 Million worth of production out of 6 of our top 7 salaries.
Let's add Jamey Carroll 38 years old and $2.75M

Now you are looking at 65.5 million for 7 players. Tampa Bay's Payroll is 65 Million. (I know this is a bad example. Tampa Bay has been a model Farm system and is producing young talent and more young talent to keep them World Series threats so thats a tough grading curve.)

The Twins owners have shown that they will spend a little so I don't believe that is the issue. It's the nature of what we are spending it on. The Nature of the Business has been a F5 Tornado. It's leveling the town. When do we call FEMA.

I don't think at the time the deals were done for the above players anyone really had an issue with it. Because a lot of those players have fallen short of expectations for various reasons it's easy to say now that the Twins should have foreseen that and been smarter. They thought they had a lineup that justified the expense, based on previous performance, in the Rays case, they didn't necessarily.

The biggest problem in baseball is that the biggest money typically gets spent after a big contract player has played his best baseball, it's like they've earned the right to be overpaid. So if you're saying the Twins should recognize this and not fall into that type of mentality then you're right. It would make them even less popular with most of their fans then they already are however.

gatormn
05-05-2012, 03:16 PM
Sure Diamond is the best pitcher the Twins have and he is not even on the roster
BUT what you forgot to mention is Anderson can take a pitcher with a good delivery and setup and DESTROY him
The Twins should first FIRE the pitching coach Anderson before bringing up any more prospects for him to ruin in the Majors!!

Shane Wahl
05-05-2012, 03:26 PM
By garbage money I didn't mean the big salaries (both deserved at the time). I would include Pavano's. Blackburn's of course, as well, and obviously Matt Capps. Liriano and Baker are moderately cheap for what they could have produced this year. In years past, Nick Punto, Mike Lamb, Ramon Ortiz, Rondell White, Livan Hernandez, Adam Everett, Craig Monroe, Luis Ayala, Tony Batista, etc. Any given year there is $15 million or more just tossed at players who are grossly overpaid for their value when league minimum players and one $10-12 million player would be vastly better.

Riverbrian
05-05-2012, 03:42 PM
I don't think at the time the deals were done for the above players anyone really had an issue with it. Because a lot of those players have fallen short of expectations for various reasons it's easy to say now that the Twins should have foreseen that and been smarter. They thought they had a lineup that justified the expense, based on previous performance, in the Rays case, they didn't necessarily.

The biggest problem in baseball is that the biggest money typically gets spent after a big contract player has played his best baseball, it's like they've earned the right to be overpaid. So if you're saying the Twins should recognize this and not fall into that type of mentality then you're right. It would make them even less popular with most of their fans then they already are however.

I understand what you are saying... I'm saying without researching it. That very few teams are getting killed like this. Not question the contracts in total... Just the freeking luck.

I was happy they actually spent money... I remember Calvin Griffith and the Metrodome Pohlad payroll that followed him... Loved that they were finally investing to retain talent instead of watching your guys leave for better deals. I would have given Mauer 23 Million... I would have given Morneau his contract. Liriano was worth the shot. I wouldn't have reached deep for Pavano or Baker or Blackburn but that was me personally.

Look at it this way... After year upon year of Calvin Griffith... Followed by year after year of Carl Pohlad and the non revenue producing Metrodome.

As an organization... They finally open the checkbook and sign some big contracts and look what happens. They got crippled by it. I'm saying... I waited a long time for this and was looking forward to what turned out to be punch in the face. I'm not sure the punch was worth the wait.