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Seth Stohs
05-03-2012, 12:22 AM
The Twins have been shutout two days in a row. They have had two (or less) bats available on the bench in each of those games. The starters have been horrible. The bullpen has been better than expected but not great. And the offense has not been good.

On Twitter during the game, at one point I said that I think that there will be two DFAs and two options for the Twins. That would mean that four new players would be on the Twins roster by Friday's game in Seattle.

Two DFAs - I think both Clete Thomas and Matt Maloney will be DFAd.
Two Options - I think that it's possible that Alex Burnett and Liam Hendriks get optioned to Rochester.

Who should be called up? In my opinion, I would NOT want to bring any big prospects up to witness what's going on with the Twins right now. These moves are not about trying to win in 2012. All moves at this point should be about what's best for the Twins to be winning and competing again in 2014.

In other words, I would like to see Brian Dozier, Rene Tosoni, Ben Revere, Liam Hendriks, Deolis Guerra, Scott Diamond, Joe Benson, etc., stay in Rochester at this time. I think that the Twins need to find out what they have in a few players that have options and are on the 40 man roster, and a couple of guys that are not on the 40 man roster. There is plenty of 40 man roster room.

I would call up PJ Walters, Darin Mastroianni, Anthony Slama and Jeff Manship. Walters has big league time and has been alright with the Red Wings. He was a prospect a couple of years ago, so it doesn't hurt to see what he can do. Mastroianni is the OF I picked because I'd rather Revere and Benson not come up until July and Rene Tosoni just came off the DL. Anthony Slama just needs a chance, and there's no way he's worse than Jeff Gray. And Jeff Manship had a solid spring and they need to see what he can do. These pitchers all need to get an extended look. In fact, I'd like to find a way to bring up Cole DeVries as well, and maybe DFAing Jeff Gray is a way to do that.

What do you think? Will the horrific series against the Angels prompt the TWins front office to make massive roster moves? Any roster moves? Or will they stand pat and tell us that they don't want to over-react?

TwinsGuy55422
05-03-2012, 12:34 AM
Should they make some moves? Yes, absolutely. Will they? I hope so, but lately a lot of their decisions haven't made a lot of sense to me. We'll see what happens. It should be interesting. But given the front office's stubborness with admitting mistakes, I could see them standing pat for a while.

Highabove
05-03-2012, 12:39 AM
Rearrange the Deck Chairs????


https://encrypted-tbn3.google.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRNxSt998qulig4wtgBXKKQLN-_eev6P7F1cyM_r5KrItYi36E

glunn
05-03-2012, 01:02 AM
The Twins have been shutout two days in a row. They have had two (or less) bats available on the bench in each of those games. The starters have been horrible. The bullpen has been better than expected but not great. And the offense has not been good.

On Twitter during the game, at one point I said that I think that there will be two DFAs and two options for the Twins. That would mean that four new players would be on the Twins roster by Friday's game in Seattle.

Two DFAs - I think both Clete Thomas and Matt Maloney will be DFAd.
Two Options - I think that it's possible that Alex Burnett and Liam Hendriks get optioned to Rochester.

Who should be called up? In my opinion, I would NOT want to bring any big prospects up to witness what's going on with the Twins right now. These moves are not about trying to win in 2012. All moves at this point should be about what's best for the Twins to be winning and competing again in 2014.

In other words, I would like to see Brian Dozier, Rene Tosoni, Ben Revere, Liam Hendriks, Deolis Guerra, Scott Diamond, Joe Benson, etc., stay in Rochester at this time. I think that the Twins need to find out what they have in a few players that have options and are on the 40 man roster, and a couple of guys that are not on the 40 man roster. There is plenty of 40 man roster room.

I would call up PJ Walters, Darin Mastroianni, Anthony Slama and Jeff Manship. Walters has big league time and has been alright with the Red Wings. He was a prospect a couple of years ago, so it doesn't hurt to see what he can do. Mastroianni is the OF I picked because I'd rather Revere and Benson not come up until July and Rene Tosoni just came off the DL. Anthony Slama just needs a chance, and there's no way he's worse than Jeff Gray. And Jeff Manship had a solid spring and they need to see what he can do. These pitchers all need to get an extended look. In fact, I'd like to find a way to bring up Cole DeVries as well, and maybe DFAing Jeff Gray is a way to do that.

What do you think? Will the horrific series against the Angels prompt the TWins front office to make massive roster moves? Any roster moves? Or will they stand pat and tell us that they don't want to over-react?

Seth, I think that you would be a better GM than Ryan. What you are saying makes a lot of sense. Let the top prospects develop some more and don't drop them into a losing environment. And see what you have with the older prospects.

If only half of what you suggest come true, I will be happy. It would be great if at least one of Walters, Mastroianni, Slama and Manship could catch on and be good in 2013 or 2014.

On the other hand, I suspect that Ryan will not be as aggressive as you are suggesting. That does not seem to be the "Twins Way."

Adam
05-03-2012, 01:48 AM
I'll add another move to the discussion--they could option Parmelee and let him develop more at Rochester as well, either by being the everyday first baseman or by rotating between first and right. I don't know the Rochester roster all that well, but maybe they could give Aaron Bates and his .359 OBP a shot as well.

Top Gun
05-03-2012, 02:00 AM
It won't happen, but I think it's time Gardy and his coaches go. The players are just not playing for him!

Seth Stohs
05-03-2012, 06:44 AM
Seth, I think that you would be a better GM than Ryan.

Ha!! Thanks, but that's not at all true. IF there is on guy I'd want at the healm right now, it would be Terry Ryan. He's done it before, with a lot of the same people around him. It just won't happen over night and fans need to realize that.

silverslugger
05-03-2012, 06:55 AM
I don't think it really matters if the Twins "top prospects" experience the current culture going on in the Twins clubhouse or avoid it by being in Rochester. The reality is, the crop of "top prospects" your talking about have experienced this exact culture the past three years in the form of putrid play both in Rochester and New Britain. That makes this crop of "top prospects" suspects until they prove themselves at the major league level. I don't have any faith that will happen with more than one or two of them. I fear Joe Mauer and his 23 mil per year contract is in for several long-cold winters over the next several baseball seasons in Minnesota.

I drank too much kool aid in spring training, I'm officially sugar depressed:(

Kdj2002
05-03-2012, 07:01 AM
Clete Thomas. Please do something with him. Nice enough seeming kid but belongs in the Northern League.

ossieO
05-03-2012, 07:21 AM
If changes like this are on the horizon, they'll wait until Gardy is back with the team. He is attending his daughter's college graduation and missing the Seattle series.

mhanson93
05-03-2012, 07:35 AM
Rearrange the Deck Chairs????


https://encrypted-tbn3.google.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRNxSt998qulig4wtgBXKKQLN-_eev6P7F1cyM_r5KrItYi36E
LOL!!! Well put!!

luckylager
05-03-2012, 08:29 AM
It's always darkest before the dawn.

Sorry, that's all I got right now. :(

glanzer
05-03-2012, 08:37 AM
If changes like this are on the horizon, they'll wait until Gardy is back with the team. He is attending his daughter's college graduation and missing the Seattle series.

Exactly. Maybe one roster move before the Seattle series, but if they're thinking 3-4 moves then it will be after the team returns home and Gardy is back at the helm to "properly" manage the group.

nicksaviking
05-03-2012, 08:43 AM
It makes sense to people on this site not to bring up any higher ceiling prospects, but the organization may need to try to reel back in the average fan. I don't need to see any of the bigger names, but wins and attendance are going to be a big factor in who returns next year. Ryan, Gardenhire and the rest of the coaching staff can't feel too comfortable about thier future employment. They are going to care less about furture development if they aren't going to be a part of it.

Boom Boom
05-03-2012, 09:03 AM
...I would like to see Brian Dozier, Rene Tosoni, Ben Revere, Liam Hendriks, Deolis Guerra, Scott Diamond, Joe Benson, etc., stay in Rochester at this time. I think that the Twins need to find out what they have in a few players that have options and are on the 40 man roster, and a couple of guys that are not on the 40 man roster. There is plenty of 40 man roster room.

I get most of your point here, Seth, but I don't see any harm in calling up Diamond.

Thrylos
05-03-2012, 09:21 AM
I think that there might be a single change Hendricks option to Rochester and a position player recalled (Ray Chang?). They do have 13 pitchers still and do not need them all. And the reason I am saying that just one will be recalled is because Gardy is already in Minneapolis and they are not going to do much without him there... I think that Swarzak earned a good look for that last spot on the rotation and I do not see anyone better in Rochester (Diamond and Walters are not better)

As far as DFA's go, if you want to swap Gray and Maloney with Rochester pitchers, I am fine with that. Slama should given a change. The other pitcher who should have a change is Cole DeVries over Manship, because he has been pitching better. Arguably, DeVries has been the best P in Rochester this season (.2.89 ERA, 1.000 WHIP, 8.7 K/9, 4.5 K/BB) and he deserves a chance. Totally surprise that there was not a ST invite for him and Slama...

Now if you want to replace Clete with Mastroianni, whatever :) Nothing much gained or lost there.

prairiejack
05-03-2012, 09:23 AM
What do you think? Will the horrific series against the Angels prompt the TWins front office to make massive roster moves? Any roster moves? Or will they stand pat and tell us that they don't want to over-react?

Hard to know what to hope for anymore. It's not just a manager problem, but it doesn't seem like there's any plan here. Plouffe's been all over the place, and that can't help his hitting. How do you keep sending Thomas up to the plate when he strikes out 75% of the time. As much as I can't stand to pay $60/seat to watch veteran minor leaguers fill the roster, it might be a good idea to let these young guys you list develop in Rochester, and leave the scraps at Target Field. Either way it's a 100 loss season.

Boom Boom
05-03-2012, 09:27 AM
What do you think? Will the horrific series against the Angels prompt the TWins front office to make massive roster moves? Any roster moves? Or will they stand pat and tell us that they don't want to over-react?

Hard to know what to hope for anymore. It's not just a manager problem, but it doesn't seem like there's any plan here. Plouffe's been all over the place, and that can't help his hitting. How do you keep sending Thomas up to the plate when he strikes out 75% of the time. As much as I can't stand to pay $60/seat to watch veteran minor leaguers fill the roster, it might be a good idea to let these young guys you list develop in Rochester, and leave the scraps at Target Field. Either way it's a 100 loss season.

You could be right, but if they're going to lose anyway, the Twins will sell more tickets if they play the guys who have a future.

SirLoin
05-03-2012, 09:27 AM
Not that I'm biased, because he's my adopt-a-prospect, but Cole DeVries absolutely deserves a chance to be called up. He has been solid all season. I'm not 100% sure about putting him in the rotation, as I think his make-up is better suited for the bullpen. Darin Mastroianni, Anthony Slama and Jeff Manship make a lot of sense as well. Mastroianni is already on the 40-man and has played some first base as well. In his place I would actually consider sending Parmalee down so he can play every day. Since you pretty much have to DFA Clete Thomas at this point, I would look at adding someone like Ray Chang to the 40-man and give him a chance at the major league level (Blyleven!). So essentially, my moves would look like this....

DFA Jeff Gray - Call up Anthony Slama
DFA Matt Maloney - Call up Cole DeVries
DFA Clete Thomas - Call up Ray Chang
Demote Chris Parmalee - Call up Darin Mastroianni
Demote Liam Hendriks - Call up Jeff Manship

After the trade deadline, I would bring up as many of the top prospects as possible.

Shane Wahl
05-03-2012, 09:44 AM
Ha!! Thanks, but that's not at all true. IF there is on guy I'd want at the healm right now, it would be Terry Ryan. He's done it before, with a lot of the same people around him. It just won't happen over night and fans need to realize that.

I don't know if I agree. I wonder how much Rantz has to do with this kind of decision-making. Your humility maybe shouldn't extend to his job . . .

DAM DC Twins Fans
05-03-2012, 09:44 AM
I was at the Nats/DBacks game last night--made me change my perspective. This season is lost--if we didnt know it after the Os series, we know it now. The Twins need to follow the Nats plan--draft a couple of superstars like Harper and Strasberg, find a sucker to trade them a major league player for Craps, and build around that. The game was frustrating to watch for a Twins fan--Kubel looked good on offense and horrid on defense (but better than Willingham), Ramos is a good MLB catcher. But the important thing to see was Bryce Harper. He is the real deal and a leader (more so than Mauer). He reminded me of a young Torii. The most important task for Terry Ryan is to find this year's Harper in the draft and groom him to be starting in 2014. Everything else is rearranging the deck chairs as somebody else said.

Shane Wahl
05-03-2012, 09:45 AM
Not that I'm biased, because he's my adopt-a-prospect, but Cole DeVries absolutely deserves a chance to be called up. He has been solid all season. I'm not 100% sure about putting him in the rotation, as I think his make-up is better suited for the bullpen. Darin Mastroianni, Anthony Slama and Jeff Manship make a lot of sense as well. Mastroianni is already on the 40-man and has played some first base as well. In his place I would actually consider sending Parmalee down so he can play every day. Since you pretty much have to DFA Clete Thomas at this point, I would look at adding someone like Ray Chang to the 40-man and give him a chance at the major league level (Blyleven!). So essentially, my moves would look like this....

DFA Jeff Gray - Call up Anthony Slama
DFA Matt Maloney - Call up Cole DeVries
DFA Clete Thomas - Call up Ray Chang
Demote Chris Parmalee - Call up Darin Mastroianni
Demote Liam Hendriks - Call up Jeff Manship

After the trade deadline, I would bring up as many of the top prospects as possible.

I agree exactly with those five moves.

Shane Wahl
05-03-2012, 09:46 AM
Oops, except I would just flat-out release Clete Thomas.

CDog
05-03-2012, 10:00 AM
But the important thing to see was Bryce Harper. He is the real deal and a leader (more so than Mauer).

Wow! You sat in the stands and could spot him leading away?!? Color me super impressed. Or maybe it's skeptical.

ScottyB
05-03-2012, 10:00 AM
DFA Jeff Gray - Call up Anthony Slama
DFA Matt Maloney - Call up Cole DeVries
DFA Clete Thomas - Call up Ray Chang
Demote Chris Parmalee - Call up Darin Mastroianni
Demote Liam Hendriks - Call up Jeff Manship

I'm in - each are good calls

2003freak2003
05-03-2012, 10:23 AM
"draft a couple of superstars like Harper and Strasberg"
"The most important task for Terry Ryan is to find this year's Harper in the draft and groom him to be starting in 2014".

Totally agree but easier said than done and is there a Harper and/or Strasberg in the draft?

ashburyjohn
05-03-2012, 10:38 AM
I would call up PJ Walters, Darin Mastroianni, Anthony Slama and Jeff Manship. ... Mastroianni is the OF I picked because I'd rather Revere and Benson not come up until July and Rene Tosoni just came off the DL.

As a process-of-elimination callup, Mastro does make sense, but (as I just got done typing into another thread) if he will be used as often as Clete has been, it means a lineup like yesterday's will become weighted with four pure table-setters on a team lacking enough guys demonstrated to drive them in. Mastro also is best suited as a leadoff man, so his strength will be wasted batting second or eighth or ninth. If Doumit/Plouffe or some other combination can emerge to handle RF, Mastro is fine as the utility outfielder, along the lines Revere could contribute. Otherwise, he doesn't happen to be a good fit for this team, as currently constituted.

James
05-03-2012, 10:45 AM
"draft a couple of superstars like Harper and Strasberg"
"The most important task for Terry Ryan is to find this year's Harper in the draft and groom him to be starting in 2014".

Totally agree but easier said than done and is there a Harper and/or Strasberg in the draft?Exactly. Also, one of the reasons the Nationals were able to draft so many good players is because since the year of their creation (2005, and yes, I am excluding the years in Montreal), they have yet to have a winning season. That has given them great draft positions for years, and it looks like it is just now starting to come together. The Twins and the Nats are in different situations. As far as draft strategy goes, if there were someone like Strassburg, or Harper available to the Twins at the #2 pick, I have enough faith in the FO that they would pick them up. I haven't seen reports of anyone like that in this years draft.

Rosterman
05-03-2012, 10:48 AM
Okay, we need something in the outfield. Please, please shift Willingham to right field. Put Span in left and have Revere play cernter fulltime. I'm all for Ben developing mroe at Rochester, but the Twins right now could use his smile and spark, and I keep thinking how many balls might be caught in that big gap if those two were out there. Willingham can do just fine in right. I would keep Clete Thomas for now just because he's better than losing him to someone else.

I would keep the rotation of Doumit/Morneau/Mauer between C/1B/DH.

Sadly, that means I would send Parmelee down to play everyday and focus what he has to do a bit better to hit for some power. RIght now, he seems to be under pressure to perform. Put him under pressure to improve and grow at Rochester.

I would bring up Dozier. Play him at short. For now have Jamie Carroll and Trevor Plouffe as the backups. I would cycle Carroll into the 2B/SS/3B mix as the Twins have done with such notables as Punto, Hocking and Reboulet in the past.

I guess I would keep Butera for the moment as the third catcher.

The pitching is a mess. Pavano/Blackburn./Marquis are here to stay.

Hendricks is out and down to Rochester. Liriano should be put in the bullpen after one more start. I guess bring up Diamond/DeVries and or P.J. and give them a looksee.

Schwarzk and Duening are the long guys. Perkins in the setup.

Capps is around and wilkl be around until someone badly needs a closer, and I would jump at the first opportunity to be rid of him.

Brunett has options, send him down if he screws up one-more-time.

Gray/Maloney/Burton on a short leash. One ahs to go to make room for Dozier. If Malooney goes, we then have 3 40-man spots open. Stay away from the waiver wire. Give anyone/everyone a chance from Rochester. Add back Slama at the worst. Let Manship come up. Maybe look at Fein or Wise. Guerra will be in the mix at sometime.

I would like to see this weekend, before the next homestand -- gone Hendricks, Maloney, Parmelee maybe Brunett.

Up Dozier, Revere, Diamond, DeVries (as relief).

I do think Carroll is professional enough to be a bench guy as long as he gets some playing time.

On the bubble: Gray, Burton, Thomas, Plouffe, Liriano.

Tradebait: Pavano, Capps, Doumit.

Oh, and pass Toshi thru waivers and see if anyone will pick up his $2.5 remaining for this year and $3 for next year. Eat the fee you paid to sign him. Move on.

SweetOne69
05-03-2012, 10:49 AM
I am okay with the Thomas - Mastroianni swap as well as the Hendricks - Walters.

I like Thrylos' suggesting of Ray Chang as we do need a backup infielder and he can play 2B, 3B and SS. A pitcher can be DFA'ed or optioned to make it happen.

Shane Wahl
05-03-2012, 10:52 AM
As a process-of-elimination callup, Mastro does make sense, but (as I just got done typing into another thread) if he will be used as often as Clete has been, it means a lineup like yesterday's will become weighted with four pure table-setters on a team lacking enough guys demonstrated to drive them in. Mastro also is best suited as a leadoff man, so his strength will be wasted batting second or eighth or ninth. If Doumit/Plouffe or some other combination can emerge to handle RF, Mastro is fine as the utility outfielder, along the lines Revere could contribute. Otherwise, he doesn't happen to be a good fit for this team, as currently constituted.

Getting on base is the most important skill as a batter in baseball. There is no disputing this.

SET THE DAMN TABLE, MASTRO!!!!! Please. Good lord, the Twins don't have that going for them at all. They have three guys above a .316 OBP and number 4 is BEN REVERE. That is disturbing (by the way, those three guys should be batting 1, 2, and 3). Point is there is just no way that Mastroianni would play as terribly as Thomas, and he would probably be better than what the Twins had in Jason Repko. And they probably could just spell Span with him at the top of the lineup. And he is a lower-tier prospect/talent as far as impact goes than Revere, so Revere should spend more time working on batting. Same can be said for Florimon vs. Dozier as well.

Hell, I thought that Mastroianni, Ramirez, and Florimon were signed precisely to be the guys to fill in on the Twins roster instead of prospects/young players (Parmelee, Revere) and joke chumps (Thomas).

deanlambrecht
05-03-2012, 10:52 AM
Since Gardy's out, it won't happen, but the move I've been hoping the team would make since 2007 is to make sure Joe Vavra is never, ever, our hitting coach again, under any circumstances. Otherwise, Seth's player moves make good sense. At this point, there's not many changes that can be worse than the status quo...

Shane Wahl
05-03-2012, 10:53 AM
I am okay with the Thomas - Mastroianni swap as well as the Hendricks - Walters.

I like Thrylos' suggesting of Ray Chang as we do need a backup infielder and he can play 2B, 3B and SS. A pitcher can be DFA'ed or optioned to make it happen.

He even played a minimum amount of first base in 2010 and earlier, I believe. He really probably is a backup at all four positions.

ScottyB
05-03-2012, 10:53 AM
One more move - demote Butera the second Mauer can catch, and bring up anything in his place. He's a waste on the bench, strike that, he's a waste on the team.

ScottyB
05-03-2012, 11:22 AM
From Joe C's article in Strib:

Quotes from Gardy:

“A terrible night for Twins baseball. We got dominated by a very good pitcher over there. But we played terrible. We didn’t pitch worth a darn. Not aggressive. Missed a play or two. And got no-hit by a very good pitcher over there, which doesn’t make it any easier for our baseball team.”
Gardenhire noted that the Twins had an off day Thursday to regroup before opening a three-game series in Seattle on Friday. Then he said, “Questions? And make them quick.”

Asked if Liam Hendriks’ performance (2.1 IP, 9 H, 6 ER) made it tougher on the offense, Gardenhire said, “He just didn’t pitch well. The kid didn’t get anything done. We didn’t hold runners. They ran all over the place on us. All the little things that a baseball team’s supposed to do, we didn’t do.

“Letting guys steal second, letting guys steal third. You go to the mound, you bring a pitcher in, tell him, ‘You’ve got to slide step. He’s going to steal third if we don’t.’ And and what do we do? The first pitch, pick your leg up and they take off running. If the guy hadn’t swung, he was standing up.

“That’s not acceptable. That’s not good baseball by any team. So we have to do a lot better. Running all over us. Looked like Little Leaguers out there, and that’s a bunch of bull.

“OK, that’s enough. I’m not going to go any further. Have a good night. Congratulations to Mr. Weaver.”


You don't need a crystal ball to tell you that Hendricks is about to be sent down. I think heads are going to roll.

Mr. Ed
05-03-2012, 11:35 AM
Scotty, please just put a link in, or paraphrase. The cops'll get you for directly pasting from Strib.

mjstef2
05-03-2012, 11:54 AM
Let's go get Eric Bedard. He's better than anything we are throwing out there right now.

Seth Stohs
05-03-2012, 11:59 AM
ScottyB, I think he was also speaking about Burnett because he was on the mound when Hunter stole second.

Thrylos
05-03-2012, 12:09 PM
That Gardy quotation makes me laugh, and cry.

Laugh because no matter if they held runners or did a few little things different here and there, that was a no-hit whopping. Those things would have no effect at the outcome of the game. Ok. maybe they would lose 4-0.

Cry because he said that the team had all day Thursday to regroup on the same breath he was shoving reporters out of his office so he can make the next flight out of town, 2 days before he needed to make it. And the sad thing is that no-one of those reporters dare to question him why he left last night, instead of, let's say Friday night...

mike wants wins
05-03-2012, 12:11 PM
Don't forget, Ryan was in charge of the drafts that did NOT develop players to come up the last three years....so I hope he's learned something new....or the scouts have, but let's be honest, none of that has changed in years and years.

Yoshii
05-03-2012, 12:17 PM
Is it too early to bring up the franchise: Sano?

ashburyjohn
05-03-2012, 12:18 PM
Getting on base is the most important skill as a batter in baseball. There is no disputing this.

Of course there is; this is baseball. :p

OBP is important. So is slugging percentage. For the scoring of actual runs, it seems that balance between the two is more important than either alone. See the pretty chart near the middle of this article (http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/article/ops-for-the-masses/) , which summarizes a correlation to run scoring with OBP and SLG (among others), and these two come out almost exactly the same as each other (SLG actually has the slight and probably unimportant edge). An even better correlation to run scoring is by combining the two, i.e. OPS. (Better stats than the apples-plus-oranges kind of computation that OPS is, don't add enough to bother with here.)

And my point here is that the 2012 team is already weighted toward OBP. At this writing the Twins rank 8th in the league in OBP with .313 (league average is .317). They rank 13th in SLG with .370 (league average is .407). Not coincidentally at all, IMO, they also rank 13th in runs scored per game with 3.62 (league average is 4.34).

Their OBP is not good, if the goal is to be above average in scoring runs. It needs to be improved, and Darin should do that compared to the at-bats Clete is getting. But on his record, he will contribute less than even Clete, in the long run, in slugging, and this is the Twins' glaring need this year.

TiberTwins
05-03-2012, 12:31 PM
All these moves are fine but the Twins do not seem to have a plan as to what direction they want to go right now. They are doing what they always seem to do, stay right in the middle and not commit and wait for something to happen. Usually it turns out alright but they never seem to commit, they seem afraid to take a chance or a real risk. If they committed to something the fan base may not like it but at least then they can say they tried something that did not work instead or being reactionary.

ScottyB
05-03-2012, 12:31 PM
Scotty, please just put a link in, or paraphrase. The cops'll get you for directly pasting from Strib.

Sorry - next time I'll link

mike wants wins
05-03-2012, 12:33 PM
TiberTwins has it exactly correct....neither willing to commit to youth, nor to excellence.

Shane Wahl
05-03-2012, 12:43 PM
Of course there is; this is baseball. :p

OBP is important. So is slugging percentage. For the scoring of actual runs, it seems that balance between the two is more important than either alone. See the pretty chart near the middle of this article (http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/article/ops-for-the-masses/) , which summarizes a correlation to run scoring with OBP and SLG (among others), and these two come out almost exactly the same as each other (SLG actually has the slight and probably unimportant edge). An even better correlation to run scoring is by combining the two, i.e. OPS. (Better stats than the apples-plus-oranges kind of computation that OPS is, don't add enough to bother with here.)

And my point here is that the 2012 team is already weighted toward OBP. At this writing the Twins rank 8th in the league in OBP with .313 (league average is .317). They rank 13th in SLG with .370 (league average is .407). Not coincidentally at all, IMO, they also rank 13th in runs scored per game with 3.62 (league average is 4.34).

Their OBP is not good, if the goal is to be above average in scoring runs. It needs to be improved, and Darin should do that compared to the at-bats Clete is getting. But on his record, he will contribute less than even Clete, in the long run, in slugging, and this is the Twins' glaring need this year.

Fair enough, but note in that article that somehow when giving OBP 1.8 times the value of Slugging in OPS', the prediction of runs scored is better. I am not sure how that works when slugging, as you noted is a tiny bit more predictive.

I agree that they are similar overall with flip-floppy OBP and SLG numbers in their careers, but whereas one is two years younger and hitting well in Rochester and the other has been completely terrible for the Twins, I think it is reasonable to conclude that if they were given the same number of plate appearances this year, Mastroianni would out-perform.

And there is a log-jam in Rochester with Tosoni being back as well. And Parmelee is going to have to go back too.

Shane Wahl
05-03-2012, 12:47 PM
Is it too early to bring up the franchise: Sano?

To Fort Myers? Yes, it is too early (but he definitely should get at least a taste there in July or August).

I know you mean the Twins, but that is not a serious consideration.

DJSim22
05-03-2012, 12:57 PM
Seth- So you do not believe in 1982 ideal of learning how to win together? Jut curious.

DJSim22
05-03-2012, 12:58 PM
Nothing will happen with Gardy away from the team imo. If anything does, we'll release a hitter and bring up another pitcher because everything they've been doing makes zero sense to me.

radiodewey
05-03-2012, 01:05 PM
Yep it's going to take 2 to 3 years to clean up this mess

ashburyjohn
05-03-2012, 04:22 PM
Fair enough, but note in that article that somehow when giving OBP 1.8 times the value of Slugging in OPS', the prediction of runs scored is better.

I think the reason for this is the apples-and-oranges nature of the two stats - OBP typically resides in a narrower range than SLG. Last year, worst-to-best range for AL team OBP was .282-.347 (a spread of .065) while for SLG it was .332-.470 (spread of .138). If they both seem to have the same correlation to runs scored, you need to scale one up to the other for certain kinds of computation. Don't know how they arrived at 1.8X, but since no one stays in the majors if they bat .000, it's the range that matters more than the absolute level of the numbers. Said another way, being .050 above league average in SLG is good, but not as good as being .050 above average in OBP, and it's not because OBP is more valuable, it's because of the nature of the two stats - perfection in SLG would be 4.000 but you can't go higher than 1.000 in OBP.

Anyway, I'll be tickled pink for Darin if he gets promoted for more than his cuppa with Toronto last season.

Shane Wahl
05-03-2012, 04:36 PM
I think the reason for this is the apples-and-oranges nature of the two stats - OBP typically resides in a narrower range than SLG. Last year, worst-to-best range for AL team OBP was .282-.347 (a spread of .065) while for SLG it was .332-.470 (spread of .138). If they both seem to have the same correlation to runs scored, you need to scale one up to the other for certain kinds of computation. Don't know how they arrived at 1.8X, but since no one stays in the majors if they bat .000, it's the range that matters more than the absolute level of the numbers. Said another way, being .050 above league average in SLG is good, but not as good as being .050 above average in OBP, and it's not because OBP is more valuable, it's because of the nature of the two stats - perfection in SLG would be 4.000 but you can't go higher than 1.000 in OBP.

Anyway, I'll be tickled pink for Darin if he gets promoted for more than his cuppa with Toronto last season.

Ok, I gotcha. That makes more sense.

benhertz
05-03-2012, 05:41 PM
Rosterman, how is Jared Burton on the short leash? In his last 8 appearances, he has thrown 8.1 innings of no-hit baseball with 2 walks, 2 HBP, and 8 strikeouts.

Zero of the 4 inherited runners have scored off him this season.

benhertz
05-03-2012, 06:11 PM
Gardy seemed pretty upset with Matt Maloney last night, so I could see Maloney and Jeff Gray (more walks than strikeouts) getting designated for assignment. Liam Hendriks needs more time in AAA.

I see the Twins bringing up only two pitchers, most likely Jeff Manship and Scott Diamond, since they are on the 40-man roster already. Kyle Waldrop could be another possibility, once he completes his rehab assignment.

For batters, Clete Thomas is most likely to be DFA, due to his inability to make contact. I don't know who the Twins will want to bring up to replace him.

glunn
05-04-2012, 12:27 AM
From Joe C's article in Strib:

Quotes from Gardy:

Asked if Liam Hendriksí performance (2.1 IP, 9 H, 6 ER) made it tougher on the offense, Gardenhire said, ďHe just didnít pitch well. The kid didnít get anything done. We didnít hold runners. They ran all over the place on us. All the little things that a baseball teamís supposed to do, we didnít do.

ďLetting guys steal second, letting guys steal third. You go to the mound, you bring a pitcher in, tell him, ĎYouíve got to slide step. Heís going to steal third if we donít.í And and what do we do? The first pitch, pick your leg up and they take off running. If the guy hadnít swung, he was standing up.

ďThatís not acceptable. Thatís not good baseball by any team. So we have to do a lot better. Running all over us. Looked like Little Leaguers out there, and thatís a bunch of bull.

ďOK, thatís enough. Iím not going to go any further. Have a good night. Congratulations to Mr. Weaver.Ē


You don't need a crystal ball to tell you that Hendricks is about to be sent down. I think heads are going to roll.

To be fair to Hendricks, if Span had been able to hold on to Morales line drive in the first inning, then Hendricks may have had more confidence after that. And a lot of the hits early on were grounders between first and second and between second and third, not up the middle or in the air. There were 4 or 5 ground balls that the Twins dove for and missed by inches.

Hendricks looked pissed as he walked to the dugout after getting pulled. It's clear that he is trying his best. He also had good velocity, but seemed to lack an "out" pitch.

Hendricks seemed good in spring training and maybe he just needs a win or two to develop more confidence. And it's not as though he had done that much worse than the other starters.

Shane Wahl
05-04-2012, 02:15 AM
Hendriks has to work on mixing his pitches appropriately, because he hits his spots. I don't totally hate the idea that he does that with the Twins, actually, but Rochester may be best for him.

stringer bell
05-04-2012, 06:24 AM
Gardy seemed pretty upset with Matt Maloney last night, so I could see Maloney and Jeff Gray (more walks than strikeouts) getting designated for assignment. Liam Hendriks needs more time in AAA.

I see the Twins bringing up only two pitchers, most likely Jeff Manship and Scott Diamond, since they are on the 40-man roster already. Kyle Waldrop could be another possibility, once he completes his rehab assignment.


For batters, Clete Thomas is most likely to be DFA, due to his inability to make contact. I don't know who the Twins will want to bring up to replace him.

While no runners offically stole on Maloney, they ran on him immediately after he was inserted in the game. It was already 6-0, so I don't know if it really mattered that much. Maloney had the same thing happen to him in his first game in Baltimore (in a much closer game).

I still don't think Maloney should be DFAed. Even though his numbers are bad, they are the result of one truly bad outing (8H, 5ER in 1.2 innings). He is a lefty with okay or better stuff and is only 28. He may be better suited to starting and goodness knows there should be opportunities to start on this club.

Seth Stohs
05-04-2012, 07:08 AM
Seth- So you do not believe in 1982 ideal of learning how to win together? Jut curious.

I do, bring a bunch up together in july/august whrn they're more ready. They'll still struggle for a couple of years. Front office also needs to clear some clutter, determine who to build around (besides Mauer), & find out what they have in some question marks (Slama, Manship, DeVries and others) to see if any of them fit. It's got to be a process.

Seth Stohs
05-04-2012, 07:10 AM
Rosterman, how is Jared Burton on the short leash? In his last 8 appearances, he has thrown 8.1 innings of no-hit baseball with 2 walks, 2 HBP, and 8 strikeouts.

Zero of the 4 inherited runners have scored off him this season.

Agreed, Burton is pretty safe these days.

roger
05-04-2012, 07:27 AM
Good morning Seth, I agree that it is time to do something and had been thinking about Hendriks. He has the potential to be another Radke which this team really needs, but needs another half season at Rochester. I think the smartest move would be to send him back down and bring up Jeff Manship, who has been great of late. Slide Swarzak into the 5th starter role and let Manship take over long relief. Although Manship will need a couple days as he pitched 3.1 no-hit innings last night for his second win.

Agree that there should be more moves, although that may wait a few weeks to see if Ramirez is for real. I would also prefer to keep all the kids at Rochester until mid-July then bring them up as a group after Mr. Ryan opens several spots on the roster with trades.

This year's draft is considered weaker than normal, does next year have a super star (ie, Strasburg or Harper caliber player) for our #1 pick overall?

Gernzy
05-04-2012, 07:46 AM
I'm a little disappointed we haven't made any moves yet. I wonder if we're going to at all.

Kirby_Waved_At_Me
05-04-2012, 07:57 AM
I read that Scott Diamond had his turn in the rotation moved up to today - who was bumped? Is it possible that that guy is being recalled?

Seth Stohs
05-04-2012, 08:13 AM
I read that Scott Diamond had his turn in the rotation moved up to today - who was bumped? Is it possible that that guy is being recalled?

The guy who was in front of Diamond in the rotation was PJ Walters. Luke French took Sam Deduno's roster spot.

mike wants wins
05-04-2012, 08:44 AM
Are people really surprised they have done nothing? I'm not. My expectations are getting lower and lower for this FO.

SweetOne69
05-04-2012, 09:16 AM
It will probably be another week or 2 before they make any moves.

DAM DC Twins Fans
05-04-2012, 10:16 AM
The FO needs to be focusing on the draft. Our current prospects (Dozier, Gibson, Benson, etc.) are not the strongest. We need to be getting something from first couple of picks--look at Aaron Hicks (drafted in 2008) still 2 years away--this is NOT GOOD ENOUGH. I think after draft, Ryan needs to float people like Span, Revere, maybe Willingham, and see what prospects he can get and start building a team for 2014. I would list Morneau but I think his trade value is only slightly better than Liriano.