Jump to content

Providing independent coverage of the Minnesota Twins.
Subscribe to Twins Daily Email

The Forums

Front Page: Every Team Wants Zack Wheeler

Minnesota Twins Talk Today, 06:13 PM
Zack Wheeler is one of the most sought after free agents this off-season and there will be not shortage of teams interested in his servic...
Full topic ›

Minnesota and Big Contracts

Minnesota Twins Talk Today, 06:05 PM
For more than 2 decades I have listened to Minnesota Twins fans complain that the Pohlads never give out big contracts. This is mostly bu...
Full topic ›

Front Page: Twins Making Sweeping Changes on the Diamond?

Minnesota Twins Talk Today, 06:02 PM
When the Minnesota Twins decided to non-tender C.J. Cron it immediately created another position of need for the 2020 club. Joining the n...
Full topic ›

Front Page: Wheeler’s Gone, But Bumgarner Would Give the...

Minnesota Twins Talk Today, 06:01 PM
With Zack Wheeler signing with the Philadelphia Phillies for $118 million over five years, Minnesota’s interest turns to Madison Bumgarne...
Full topic ›

The Trade Route

Minnesota Twins Talk Today, 05:53 PM
Ive heard rumblings of the Twins swinging a trade with the Tigers for a big name pitcher, and I have to assume it would be Boyd.   A...
Full topic ›

Women's Baseball Experience Part 3: Why Aren’t There More Women in Baseball? (A.K.A the One Where We Need More Marney)

It only takes a glance at the Twins front office list to see it’s still very much male majority, especially in baseball operations, communications, and broadcasting. What does that tell me as a female baseball fan? Women still aren’t adequately represented in the front offices and operations staff of my favorite team. The old boys club is alive and well.
Image courtesy of © Brad Rempel-USA TODAY Sports
Women are advancing in non-traditional roles, but it’s slow and it demonstrates the teams just aren’t great at bringing the game to women at all levels as fans and players or as a career path. It’s not just the Twins, by the way. It’s across MLB.

In 2017, the Cardinals promoted a replica ring celebrating their 1967 World Series victory with a tweet that said "You love baseball, she loves jewelry. On May 17th, it's a win-win." The backlash was swift, but it’s quite a comment on how some in baseball view female fans if that tweet made it out to the internet in 2017.

Attached Image: WBE6.jpg

And what about on the field? I asked Garvin Alston during the 2018 event if we’d ever see a woman on an MLB team? He said he thinks so, someday. His daughter was a baseball player, but she’d reached the point of having to decide about a move to softball for college. And why does she have to decide? Blame Little League.

We just passed the November 7, 1973 anniversary of the landmark New Jersey court decision that forced Little League to allow girls to play baseball. Little League officials couldn’t possibly let that happen, so they got together and in 1974 created a softball league for girls. So here we are 46 years later and girls are still faced with choosing playing the game they love or switching to the game a bunch of misinformed men in the 1970s decided was “safe” for girls to play if they want to continue playing sports in college or beyond. Women have played baseball since the beginning of the sport, even before the AAGPBL portrayed in A League of Their Own. But thanks to Little League, most girls have been pushed into softball in my lifetime.

“But why do you care?” asks the dudebro who definitely hasn’t read this far.

Because representation and opportunity matter, dude.

I’m a baseball and hockey fan. The team sport with the best established women’s league is basketball. I think we’ve seen just how exciting the women’s game can be as we’ve witnessed the Lynx become a dynasty. It almost makes me a basketball fan, but my heart belongs to baseball and hockey.

I am able to watch a women’s professional hockey team now in St. Paul that’s in a national league. I hope they continue to grow to a point where the women playing on the teams don’t need a separate full time job to pay the bills. With the turmoil over the last year with the NWHL and CWHL, it’s apparent we’re a long way from that being their reality. And baseball? Nope. At least not in the U.S. Japan has a professional women’s league, but alas, I still live in Minnesota.

If I were a young girl looking at professional options available to me in sports that provide the same opportunities as men, what are my choices? Tennis is probably the most equal. The prize money is equal in many tournaments and endorsement deals are lucrative for both. Golf has a professional tour, just like the men. The prize money isn’t equal to the men’s game, but it’s growing. The top LPGA earner earned a million more in prize money in 2019 than in 2010 while playing in two fewer events.

Basketball has the WNBA, but the top salary is only around $115,000. Women can earn 15 times that playing in Europe or Asia, but if you want to play in the US, too bad. Soccer? If you can make the US national team, you can earn a salary as high as $250,000 plus endorsements, but if you aren’t in the top 25-30 players in the country, that opportunity doesn’t exist. By comparison, there are over 600 roster spots for men on MLS teams with a league minimum salary of $60,000 and the top paid player at $7,200,000.

And it’s bigger than just sports. Justine Seigal, the founder of Baseball for All, was a guest on the This Week in Baseball History podcast recently. Justine was 13 when she was first told she shouldn’t play baseball because she was a girl. She founded Baseball for All to empower girls to believe in themselves and keep playing the game they love. As she said on the podcast with Bill and Mike, “My focus is on girls believing in themselves. Because I’m so concerned that when you tell a girl she can’t play baseball, what else will she think she can’t do.”

Even if the opportunities existed today, my window for playing baseball at a professional level has been closed for a while. So what do I want to see in the future of baseball as a fan?

As a female fan of the men’s sport, I’d like to be respected as a fan. Don’t market the game to me as if women are only watching because men are attractive and we can’t possibly understand or appreciate the plays on the field. Sell more than pink and sequined women’s apparel. For every player shirt or jersey that’s in the store in a men’s cut, also have the women’s cut available. Unisex in a t-shirt or jersey is a lie we’ve all accepted. Unisex is code for “it’s the men’s cut, but we don’t have a women’s cut so we call it unisex.”

Bring more women into roles traditionally held by men, on and off the field. You don’t have to have played in the major or minor leagues to be an effective infield coordinator or first base coach or any other coaching or staff position. Make it crystal clear to every single employee on and off the field that behavior like Osuna’s and Taubman’s is absolutely unacceptable. It’s highly unlikely that was the first time Taubman said something unacceptable, but this time it had consequences. How many other times did it not? And Osuna or Russell, or Chapman, or Torres, or Herrara, or or or…)? I understand the players are protected under their CBA while under contract, but teams can still make choices on who they trade for or sign as free agents.

Now, about those girls and young women who want to keep playing baseball? Support them, mom, dad, and MLB. Help them build the route to playing through high school, college, and all the way to a major league whether it’s MLB or their own. Do I think we ever see a woman play on an MLB team? Why not? There are women who are fast and strong and can play as well as some men in the league today given the opportunity to develop. But beyond that, women can have their own league. If Japan can do it, so can the United States. I watch the NWHL Whitecaps and the hockey is fast and exciting and worth watching. I have no doubt women’s baseball can be just as exciting given a proper development path and opportunity to play.

And give me more female voices in primary roles on TV and Radio. I love Cory Provus. Dick Bremer sans Bert is good. But as we’ve seen with the new rotation of color commentators with Dick on the Twins TV broadcasts, there are new voices worth hearing. Marney Gellner is the most logical local voice to move into the role. She’s an experienced broadcaster with years of basketball play-by-play experience and was the first woman to do Twins play-by-play. And when was that? 2019… yes, 2019.

How fun would it be to hear Marney with Justin Morneau or Roy Smalley? She knows the sport, she knows the team. Or how about the radio? Dan Gladden is phoning it in now. The Yankees have had a woman on radio color since 2005. Kris Atteberry is a fine fill-in with Cory when Gladden is out, but why not cycle in a woman. We can have a quality broadcast without one of the voices being a former player. We really can.

Many times watching the Twins and MLB in general is an exercise in cognitive dissonance. I want the team to do well, but I can’t cheer for some players. I’m excited to participate in a day on the field with Twins coaches, but know that none of them will be women. I want to read about Twins baseball, but know that most of the writers, with or without access, are men. Betsy Helfand, who arrived to the beat in 2019, is the lone female full time beat writer and she’s the first since Kelsie Smith left the Pioneer Press in 2011.

If you’re still with me after 4,000 words, thanks. I love baseball and I love the Twins, but I also look forward to the day when there are more women on and off the field and it takes less cognitive dissonance to love the team.

Please share your thoughts in the comments below. Not registered? Click here to create an account. To stay up to date, follow Twins Daily on Twitter and Facebook.

Previous Installments of This Series
Part 1: Woo! Fun on the Field! (A.K.A the One Where They Actually Let Us on the Target Field Grass!!!)
Part 2: Women Who Work in Baseball (A.K.A the One Where We Got a Panel of Female Employees Instead of a Player’s Wife)

  • drbob524, gbg, hugelycat and 4 others like this

  • Share:
  • submit to reddit
Subscribe to Twins Daily Email

Subscribe to Twins Daily Email

24 Comments

Photo
Hosken Bombo Disco
Nov 21 2019 07:59 PM
Hey—I don’t think Gladden is mailing it in! Although you may be right, as I’ve noticed the number of his “special assignments” away from the broadcast booth seems to increase every year. I haven’t heard the Yankees announcer but i’ve heard Jessica Mendoza do color for ESPN Sunday Night Baseball and she’s as good as they come.

Because working with data is becoming a more important skill, and is already in theory open to anybody, and “big league experience” being less important, do you see the change happening more quickly?
    • TCAnelle and Sconnie like this
Photo
Patrick Wozniak
Nov 21 2019 08:07 PM

Great series! It would be really nice hear Marney more in the booth. I enjoy Morneau and Smalley but could do without several of the other former players and hearing the same old cliches from their playing days. 

    • TCAnelle, Sconnie and nclahammer like this

"Many times watching the Twins and MLB in general is an exercise in cognitive dissonance. I want the team to do well, but I can’t cheer for some players."

 

Yep.

 

Like it.

    • TCAnelle, Sconnie and Melissa like this

 

Hey—I don’t think Gladden is mailing it in! Although you may be right, as I’ve noticed the number of his “special assignments” away from the broadcast booth seems to increase every year. I haven’t heard the Yankees announcer but i’ve heard Jessica Mendoza do color for ESPN Sunday Night Baseball and she’s as good as they come.

Because working with data is becoming a more important skill, and is already in theory open to anybody, and “big league experience” being less important, do you see the change happening more quickly?

 

Jessica's fine and I'm glad ESPN has her in the booth, but she's not a daily voice. She's not even weekly unless your teams are the Yankees or Red Sox. We hear the FSN and/or Twins Radio crew for nearly every game. That's where we need the female voices, in the places that we listen every game. 

 

The change in philosophy seems to be translating to college coaches being hired, not women. Justine Segal from Baseball for All could coach. She's doing it tonight in the Mexican Pacific League. There are likely others like her but MLB hasn't show much evidence of trying to find or develop women for those roles. We'll see, but I'm not confident there's going to be a woman on an MLB bench for a regular season game in my lifetime. I hope I'm wrong. 

    • Sconnie and Melissa like this

 

Great series! It would be really nice hear Marney more in the booth. I enjoy Morneau and Smalley but could do without several of the other former players and hearing the same old cliches from their playing days. 

LaTroy Hawkins calling Dick Bremer "Richard" is the best thing there is in the Twins TV booth all season. 

 

 

    • Sconnie and nclahammer like this
Better call Mama!

Time for more Gellner in the booth! I am with you on the Morneau/Gellner combo on the TV broadcast. Her calls on those games we’re great!

I have two follow ups that weren’t exactly approached, but I think are relevant.

1) In a sport that is dropping in viewership and ticket sales, how can the MLB not prioritize the market opportunity to capture a larger portion of 50% of the human race? Tapping into women as a market segment has massive dollars out there just waiting to be taken advantage of.

2) reading this series of articles and internalizing the message, I come to my own role. Men as advocates. Of course women don’t “need” our voice, but when we raise our voices together we can bring a spot light to injustice.

Thank you TCAnelle for your excellent works!
    • TCAnelle, Craig Arko, woolywoolhouse and 3 others like this

 

Thank you TCAnelle for your excellent works!

 

 

Thank you for reading. I really appreciate it. 

I agree Marney would a great replacement for Bremer. She did well doing play by play during a spring training game or two last year. I ran into her at the Goose Island Pub in the left field area this season and told her she should take Dick's job. She smiled and rolled her eyes.
Photo
operation mindcrime
Nov 21 2019 11:17 PM
The Brewers have Front Row Amy!

 

 

"Sell more than pink and sequined women’s apparel." 

My wife (Ashley) gets no annoyed with this. She sees a shirt that looks nice, then takes a closer look and 90% of the time its bedazzled (the other 10% of the time is way too expensive). 

 

Ashley is as big of a Twins/baseball fan as I am. she knows the game, the players, the rules. We've been at a games where someone does something bone headed (eg forgetting to tag up) and she will yell (very sarcastically) "what are you doing?!", and more than once she has had a dudebro (thank you for using this term Mary), try to mansplain the rules. She just looks them straight in the eye and says "it was rhetorical" 

 

Other Ashley story. She loves Marney, like we all do. Marney's job is Ashley's dream job. Once in KC, we were by the camera well before the game, where Marney sits. Ashley wanted to tell Marney how much she admires her, the job that she does, and just that she thinks she's great. It came out as "Marney, you're my hero". Marney took is in stride, but Ashley felt so dumb so saying that. 

 

Thanks for this series Mary.

    • SQUIRREL, TCAnelle, nclahammer and 1 other like this

 

Other Ashley story. She loves Marney, like we all do. Marney's job is Ashley's dream job. Once in KC, we were by the camera well before the game, where Marney sits. Ashley wanted to tell Marney how much she admires her, the job that she does, and just that she thinks she's great. It came out as "Marney, you're my hero". Marney took is in stride, but Ashley felt so dumb so saying that. 

 

Thanks for this series Mary.

 

I totally get this. I debated about tagging her in the tweet of the story. I think she's great and would love to get a chance to just talk to her and Vanessa Lamb (the FSN producer) in an informal setting about what they do and what it's like to travel with the teams. 

 

Thanks for reading, Bob. 

 

I can relate to much of this. Even down to athletic options. I played tennis and softball - tennis on the high school team, softball in summer rec leagues only, but I was on a couple of championship teams.

 

If it was now ... not sure what I'd do, if I'd have insisted on playing baseball or not.

 

And the shirt thing? Just ... ugh. Some of the advertising also is ... well ... geared toward one segment of the audience.

    • TCAnelle likes this

 

I can relate to much of this. Even down to athletic options. I played tennis and softball - tennis on the high school team, softball in summer rec leagues only, but I was on a couple of championship teams.

 

If it was now ... not sure what I'd do, if I'd have insisted on playing baseball or not.

 

I was not a sporty kid. I took tap and ballet for years and thank Miss Jane for what little coordination and grace I may have today, but my sports career was never destined to be. That said, back in the day I just accepted that girls played softball and I don't remember any of my friends lamenting not getting to play baseball. I didn't look at it critically and ask why that was. My mom was always empowering, but there are generations of gender roles modeled for us to overcome. I can install my own garbage disposal, but I was an adult before I really questioned why it was that women play softball and men play baseball. 

    • Melissa likes this

I've spent a large majority of my professional life working and analyzing demographics. 

 

Bottom Line: Baseball needs to grow outside of the limited current base. Actually, in my opinion... Baseball desperately needs this. The current demo's are scary for the future. 

 

This means attracting the basically untapped female audience and younger audiences. 

 

The fact that Baseball is overwhelmingly older and male doesn't mean that Baseball should pander exclusively to this limited base because you get what you pay for.  

 

If you want to attract more females and if you want to attract younger viewers and baseball should want that.

 

If baseball needs to change (It does). These now needed demographics should have a strong voice in the direction of the change. 

 

 

 

Your first step would be to hire more females and younger employees and listen to them. 

 

 

 

I was not a sporty kid. I took tap and ballet for years and thank Miss Jane for what little coordination and grace I may have today, but my sports career was never destined to be. That said, back in the day I just accepted that girls played softball and I don't remember any of my friends lamenting not getting to play baseball. I didn't look at it critically and ask why that was. My mom was always empowering, but there are generations of gender roles modeled for us to overcome. I can install my own garbage disposal, but I was an adult before I really questioned why it was that women play softball and men play baseball. 

 

My mom is a huge baseball fan ... always was ... and huge in pushing for equality in girls/womens athletic programs in schools ... so I often wonder why she went the softball route. Maybe because back then, she didn't want to use her daughters to prove a point or push that line in a smaller more conservative community in the 60s.

    • TCAnelle and Melissa like this
Photo
woolywoolhouse
Nov 22 2019 03:48 PM

eRvGD4V.jpg

 

Love me some Marney! Love the "Better Call Momma" homerun call. Remember at the end of 2018 when she worked nine positions in one game (including camera and ball girl down the line?) She's great at what she does, and she deserves the chance to do more.

    • TCAnelle and nclahammer like this

I didn't do a deep dive into all the MiLB coaching staffs for all 30 teams, but the Cubs announced a woman has been added to their Rookie League in Mesa today. 

    • SQUIRREL likes this

Great story and terrific series.Excellent points and I like the idea of a new Minnesota Twins M & M combo...Marney and Morneau.

    • TCAnelle likes this

Yankees wanted more credit from me so they also hired a female hitting coach. Shame on any team that didn't call her back and I hope the never-hire-a-woman guy is gone. 

    • woolywoolhouse likes this
For me, the way I was raised, it’s just strange to me that people wouldn’t want to hire the most qualified candidates. Gender, race, religion, whatever, should be thrown out the window. I’m a business owner, and can tell you that if I get an accountant coming to me out of college, I’m taking the most talented. Honestly, I don’t know anyone personally in my line of work that would do it differently.

All that said, I think it’s antithetical to that call for more of X or Y in anything. If we’re working to get rid of prejudice/bias....that’s just another form. I’d love for these things to happen organically. The best person should get the job. If that’s 100% women, men, people of a certain color, so be it. We don’t need proportionate ratios across the board.

In order for us as a society to clear these hurdles related to prejudice, people that like to think they aren’t prejudiced also need to stop analyzing things in terms of the number of women, minorities, white men, etc in any given arena. Creating inefficiencies for the sake of filling quotas (IMO, perpetuating prejudice), doesn’t help anyone. Especially in today’s society with gender fluidity and identity politics, if it doesn’t work as one, what’s to stop someone from trying it as another.

Look, I get there are good intentions behind a lot these things. I’m by no means chastising anyone. Everyone deserves a fair shake regardless. That’s the important thing. That’s where we need to be as a society.

For me, the way I was raised, it’s just strange to me that people wouldn’t want to hire the most qualified candidates.

In the interest of keeping the discussion on the topic of the article that was posted, I'd like to ask you to go back to something contained in the headline: Why Aren’t There More Women in Baseball? You see it as a matter of qualified candidates. Do you see it as a lack of qualified candidates? Or do you see it as qualified candidates not being chosen? And do you have a solution to either of these causes, beyond the Invisible Hand of the marketplace that for the history of baseball doesn't seem to have worked its normal magic?

    • SQUIRREL, TCAnelle and Melissa like this

This is awesome. Would love to attend even. Not sure I'd ever leave my brokerage career to be a scout, but would love to be in the sessions with these women. 

    • Sconnie likes this

So many perfect lines in this article, TCAnelle!  Including these:

 

"Because representation and opportunity matter, dude."

 

"As a female fan of the men’s sport, I’d like to be respected as a fan."

 

"For every player shirt or jersey that’s in the store in a men’s cut, also have the women’s cut available." (I do have a Morneau jersey in a woman's cut.)

 

"And give me more female voices in primary roles on TV and Radio."

 

"Make it crystal clear to every single employee on and off the field that behavior like Osuna’s and Taubman’s is absolutely unacceptable." Consequences, men!

    • SQUIRREL and nicksaviking like this

So good to see reflections by women on this thread. I played tennis and volleyball into my thirties and a bit in my forties. Some softball, too.

 

Also, as a relative newcomer, it's been fun to see now that there are other women behind some of these cool usernames!

    • SQUIRREL and nicksaviking like this