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The Trade Route

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Front Page: Wheeler’s Gone, But Bumgarner Would Give the...

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Create Your Twins Offseason Blueprint - 2019/20 Edition

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Use this thread to share, discuss, and debate offseason blueprints. The premise is simple: create a plan for building your ideal Twins ro...
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The Twins Should Bring Michael Pineda Back for 2020

Michael Pineda ended the 2019 season on a sour note with Twins fans due to a PED suspension. Before that happened, he was leading a struggling rotation and that should not be forgotten. Pineda should be the fifth starter in the Twins 2020 rotation.
Image courtesy of © David Berding-USA TODAY Sports
The 2019 season was going extremely well for Pineda before he was suspended. In 26 games started he had a 4.01 ERA, 4.02 FIP, 8.63 K/9 and 1.73 BB/9, but he had an excellent stretch before the suspension that really intrigues me. From June 13 to September 6 he had a 2.96 ERA, 9.5 K/9, 1.9 BB/9 and .234/.277/.373 (.650) line against him. If the Twins get that guy in their fifth rotation spot then they are in a great spot.

From everything I have heard, the Twins seem like a lock to get at least one free agent in the second tier of free agents (Wheeler, Ryu, Bumgarner, Hamels), and then sign or trade for another starter to fill the number three or four spot. That leaves one rotation spot open and I think Pineda is the perfect fit.

He is going to be finishing up his suspension for the first part of the season but that is fine. The Twins likely will want to get guys like Dobnak, Thorpe, and Smeltzer some starts this season and with Pineda serving suspension they will be able to make that happen. He will likely be looking for a one year "make good" deal for around $10-$12 million to hit free agency again next season with a clean slate. It seems like a good fit for both sides.

I’m not at all saying he should be their big name free agent signing, and if he headlines their offseason then it was likely a failed one. He would be a nice piece to cap off the offseason. A rotation of Berrios, Odorizzi, FA/trade, FA/trade, and then Pineda would be a very good rotation depending on the pitchers they pick up of course.

They will need to find someone to fill that fifth spot so why not bring someone everyone enjoys playing with and someone who already knows the organization well? They might decide to go the route of another Martin Perez type project, but I like Pineda to return for one more season.

Is Michael Pineda someone you would like to see come back to Minnesota? He certainly expressed his interest in returning during his interview after the suspension. He was loved by his teammates and there really isn’t any risk to bringing him back. What do you think will happen or what would you like to happen with Big Mike? Leave a comment and discuss below.

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49 Comments

I like Big Mike and thought he was the best pitcher on staff heading into the playoffs. He would have been at worst the game 2 starter, preventing Dobnak from being tossed to the wolves in Yankee Stadium...

If people are still mad about the timing of the suspension I've got no rebuttal to it... The timing couldn't have been worse for a playoff team. What are the Twins going to do when he's suspended the first 40 some games in 2020?
    • TwinVike61, Dman, DocBauer and 4 others like this

 

I like Big Mike and thought he was the best pitcher on staff heading into the playoffs. He would have been at worst the game 2 starter, preventing Dobnak from being tossed to the wolves in Yankee Stadium...

 

While I wish the Twins' playoff luck had been better over the years, I love the idea that we could have sent both Pavano and Pineda to start against NYY in NY given their histories in that city.

    • Vanimal46 and Huskertwin like this

I hope they bring him back and I would try for a two year deal.The further he got from the surgery the better he was pitching.If he ends up our 5th starter I think we are in good shape heading into 2020.I am a little surprised they haven't signed him already.

    • TwinVike61, DocBauer, bighat and 7 others like this

So for half the season he was our best pitcher and would have been our #2 pitcher in the playoffs and you all think of him as the 5th starter if he resigns?Odorizzii is currently the headline of the offseason.If we sign Pineda I and rely on two of the young guys I think the young guys can exceed what Gibson and Perez gave us last year so I would not consider the offseason to be a fail but rather a C+.to B- since I was afraid we would lost them both. If we resign Pineda andwe sign just one of those 2nd tier guys (Ryu 4th in Cy Young is 2nd tier?)I would be thrilled.If its Hamels or Wheeler I wouldn't even make a distinction between Berrios, Odo, Pineda and new guy in terms of spots in the rotation. If its Dobnak or Graterol I'm not sure you would even distinguish 1 from 5.

    • DocBauer, DannySD and Huskertwin like this
Lock to sign a high priced free agent pitcher? Lock?
    • adorduan, Hosken Bombo Disco, rghrbek and 1 other like this
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Hosken Bombo Disco
Nov 28 2019 12:17 AM
Pineda was using a banned substance last year. I’m willing to believe that banned substance played a part in his success. Therefore, thanks but no thanks.
    • mikelink45 and VivaBomboRivera! like this
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the_brute_squad
Nov 28 2019 05:58 AM

I think this is a no-brainer. The team has invested too much time and money in Pineda to not give at least one full season a shot. If he had been a disaster then I'd say no thanks but he was the best pitcher on the team for a stretch. As far as the PED's - it didn't effect Polanco negatively after the suspension so I'm going with the assumption that it would be the same for Pineda.

    • MN_ExPat and Jkeady12 like this
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Channing1964
Nov 28 2019 07:06 AM
I would like having him back a lot. Its not out of the realm of possibility to acquire 2 front line starters in a year like this. Pineda got better with time and would solidify the rotation if he is brought back. That group of three guys that had a year together already would smooth the transition of any newcomers as well.
    • TwinVike61, MN_ExPat and Huskertwin like this

 

Pineda was using a banned substance last year. I’m willing to believe that banned substance played a part in his success. Therefore, thanks but no thanks.

A diuretic is not a PED. As for a masking agent, HCTZ works slower than furosimide, thus it not ideal for a masking agent

    • Dman, adorduan, MN_ExPat and 1 other like this

Only if the FO wiffs on all the better options. I like Hosken Bombo Disco's post.We all know what PEDs can do - Clemens went from a great pitcher to washed out by Boston to HOF pitcher with a little help from his friends.Pineda was boosted and the Twins paid the bigger penalty.I am for a rookie at #4 and #5, although I will be happy if they only fill one of the rotation spots.We need one of two pitchers and it is up to the FO.  

    • alphanumeric, Hosken Bombo Disco and heresthething like this
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Major League Ready
Nov 28 2019 08:45 AM

Depends ... I am not going to assume to know the affect of the banned substance based on what is reported.I'm a fan, not a doctor and I only have the reported information to go on. If the Twins still have confidence, I think he fits nicely into the plan, especially on a 2-year deal.At the start of the off-season, Ithought it was realistic to get Wheeler and bring back Odo and Pineada.

 

Wheeler on a 4 or 5 year deal, Odo, one year, Pineda on a 2 year contract makes us better next year and allows us to transition Graterol / Balazovic and others over the next 2-3 seasons.Wouldn't it be nice to talk about it being hard for our prospects to crack the rotation.

    • TwinVike61, TopGunn#22, Dman and 3 others like this

Are there ever contracts where the team is protected in the case of player misconduct like Pineda with his banned substance suspension? It would make sense for the Twins to bring him back on maybe a 2-year contract with protection for the team if he gets himself suspended again.

My first reaction w/ Pineda is let this play out. There won’t be a market for him w/ suspension and he can be a cheap fallback option.

I didn’t think there would be a market for Gibson and here he is, signed w/ the Rangers for 3/30 in November.

Looking back at Gibson, my instincts might not be very good. Pineda would be a very nice floor on a 4th or 5th starter. Might not be bad to lock that up while going after bigger fish that might not land until Feb or March.
    • Twins33, nicksaviking, beckmt and 1 other like this
I think Pineda was trying to lose weight. He had the knee surgery the year before which probably impacted him getting in shape last year. This year we could see a slimmer Pineda. This guy has upside, sign him.
    • TwinVike61, beckmt, Danchat and 3 others like this
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Hosken Bombo Disco
Nov 28 2019 09:37 AM

A diuretic is not a PED. As for a masking agent, HCTZ works slower than furosimide, thus it not ideal for a masking agent

Sure, fine.

Would you sign him back? What would your offer to him be?

I think it makes sense to give resigning Pineda strong consideration.But with the 40-game suspension, he doesn't have to be an urgent priority right now.If the Twins sign Wheeler for 5-yrs$95 million, and make a trade for a Ray/Boyd type of pitcher the Dobnak/Smeltzler/Thorpe 3-headed monster could hold down #5.But if you have Berrios, Wheeler, Odo and Ray/Boyd then yes, Pineda is the #5 guy.If everyone pitches to their abilities in this rotation, Pineda becomes an interesting starting or bullpen option for the post season.I like cost certainty so I would probably offer Pineda 2-years at $7 million per.This would be similar to the 2-year contract they signed him to before where the first year was primarily a rehab year.the #5 guys would have at most 8 starts to take care of to begin the season.There's nothing wrong with having depth. 

2 points here. 

1. MLB reduced the suspension from 80 games to 60, which buys the arguement, he really didn't know and wasn't trying to cheat.If MLB thought he was trying to cheat it would have been 80 games.

2. You get a 25% reduction on 2020 salary so 2/24 or 3/36 are reasonable.This might be low, looking at what Gibson got, but feel it is in the park.

Then if you sign one or two of the top 6 FA pitchers, you are set.  

    • DocBauer, wabene, rdehring and 1 other like this

Like the idea of bringing big Mike back on a one or two year deal.Or maybe two years with a team option for a third.

 

But like several above, I don't see him as the #5 starter.Would pencil him into the #4 slot which after signing one of the top free agents would give the team four solid starters.As for the #5 spot, have no problem with them having an audition between the four rookies from last year (Dobnak, Smeltzer, Thorpe and Graterol) along with a couple comeback guys (or AAAA) signed to minor league contracts.The winner gets the #5 spot and next in line takes Pineda's spot the first six weeks of the season.If the winner hits a rough spot, bring up the next guy.One will get it done.

    • beckmt, DocBauer and wabene like this

Okay. 2020 will be a year that Pineda ahs to prove that he is worth a long-term contract.

 

I picture him going into spring training still looking for a job, unless someone blows him away with dollars. He has to prove that he can throw well in spring training, be added to a 40-man roster so he can be suspended on Day One. Those roster spots are priceless. He is suddenly faced with being in a position of having to bump someone from the 40-man, or find a team that, after next week, has an open roster spot. 

 

Let's assume the Twins do have a full roster. You sign Pineda and jettison Hildenberger or Harper or who?

 

He then sits for acouple of months, doing some workouts (permitted) at the Ft. Myers complex, or does he have to do that outside of the Twins organization, at a neighboring college or facility, on his own dime.

 

Pro-rated contract signing, too.

 

If he pitches well in 2020, he should easily match Kyle Gibson's three-year contract. But right now, what spot do you put him on a roster. When suspended, you add another player back into the mix. But then you also have to remove a body when he comes back (and, yes, you will probably have a DL move or one of those AAAA guys rotating in-and-out).

 

I'm not really sure that any team will be eager to sign Micahel. I may be wrong. His agent may be working the phones (for his commission). But Pineda has a lot to prove. The best bet is that he will pitch his heart out in 2020 looking towards the future. So that could be the one plus!a

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puckstopper1
Nov 28 2019 11:28 AM

 

Like the idea of bringing big Mike back on a one or two year deal.Or maybe two years with a team option for a third.

 

But like several above, I don't see him as the #5 starter.Would pencil him into the #4 slot which after signing one of the top free agents would give the team four solid starters.As for the #5 spot, have no problem with them having an audition between the four rookies from last year (Dobnak, Smeltzer, Thorpe and Graterol) along with a couple comeback guys (or AAAA) signed to minor league contracts.The winner gets the #5 spot and next in line takes Pineda's spot the first six weeks of the season.If the winner hits a rough spot, bring up the next guy.One will get it done.

 

I totally agree with this being the most likely scenario.Those who think the Twins will sign/trade for 2 front line starters have not followed the team for the past 50 years.

    • wabene and rdehring like this
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tony&rodney
Nov 28 2019 11:35 AM

Pineda should not be a priority until Spring Training, so agree with the above post.

Even though the cost and potential risk may be high, the Twins need to work hard to sign two pitchers worth signing. Wheeler for 5/100 and Bumgarner for 4/80 are my choices. This gives the Twins some time to develop pitchers like Duran and Balazovic or others. The cost might be high but with their need for starting pitching the team needs to buy time for the future while settling the present. 

I want Big Mike back.I don't care about the suspension.Those rules are obscure and archaic and outmoded.They are culturally bias'd and sporadically enforced.

Outside of that, there is nothing wrong with getting suspended by MLB.

Where have you gone, Barry Bonds, now that we need you?

 

:)

    • DannySD likes this
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Brandon Warne
Nov 28 2019 02:51 PM
A couple key distinctions:

1. It was for a banned substance, not a PED. The rules are different — for instance, had the suspension lapsed before the end of the season, he’d have been playoff-roster eligible.

2. Based on some stuff circling around out there, this was a very serendipitous test result.

Pineda deserves another chance, and it might as well be from the team that gave him the last one.
    • Sconnie, Dman, DocBauer and 1 other like this

 

A couple key distinctions:

1. It was for a banned substance, not a PED. The rules are different — for instance, had the suspension lapsed before the end of the season, he’d have been playoff-roster eligible.

2. Based on some stuff circling around out there, this was a very serendipitous test result.

Pineda deserves another chance, and it might as well be from the team that gave him the last one.

 

What a tease. Care to elaborate? If you are making that claim, how about the goods? I, for one, am curious.... about stuff.

    • mikelink45 likes this

 

I think Pineda was trying to lose weight. He had the knee surgery the year before which probably impacted him getting in shape last year. This year we could see a slimmer Pineda. This guy has upside, sign him.

I think he was more interested in earning millions of dollars