• Handling Gibson

    As they try to rebuild their shattered starting pitching corps, the Twins are relying on Kyle Gibson to become a fixture in the rotation. Whereas the rest of the organization’s top pitching prospects are widely considered to be at least a year or two away, Gibson is ready now.

    After being sidetracked by Tommy John surgery, he’s returned throwing harder than ever and – much like in his first big-league camp in 2011 – he is impressing coaches and onlookers with his poise and polish. He is a beacon of hope for the future that the Twins can present to fans now; a bridge to what they hope will be a revamped young rotation that returns them to relevance.

    Considering his importance to their short-term and long-term plans, Gibson will obviously need to be handled carefully. From a physical standpoint, the Twins are addressing that by limiting his inning total for this season. But what about from a financial standpoint? The decisions made this spring, and later in the summer, will have a considerable bearing on when he'll be in line for free agency.

    Once a prospect graduates to the majors his service clock kicks in. From that point, the team owns his rights for the equivalent of six full seasons. His clock pauses if he is sent to the minors (for reasons other than injury rehab) but he must spend at least 20 days there for the stint to be counted against MLB service.

    In other words, if Gibson was sent to the minors for 15 days this season – either at the outset of the campaign or at some point during – he would still have an opportunity to accrue a full year of major-league service. If that stint were to extend to 20 or more days, the time logged in the minors would be subtracted from his service time and he’d be unable to accrue a full year. In essence, this would push his service clock back by a full year. He won’t be able to rack up six full seasons of MLB service over the next six years, thus extending the Twins’ control over him by another season.

    It is for this reason that we often hear about teams wanting to hold down top prospects for the first three or four weeks of the season, even after they’ve been deemed ready for action. The Rays are known for it. Many believe the Twins should do it with Aaron Hicks. It’s a perfectly logical business decision.

    But there’s more complexity to this dynamic than just business, especially as it pertains to Gibson.

    One the one hand, if the Twins bring him north out of camp, let him pitch his allotted 130-140 innings and then shelf him, he will accrue a full year of service time while pitching only a partial season for a team that’s probably going to be near the bottom of the standings. That’s hardly ideal.

    On the other hand, the Twins would eat away a good chunk of his limited innings by sending him to Triple-A for even three weeks, which would be tough to stomach if the coaching staff truly believes he’s ready for the majors. Sending him to the minors in August before shutting him down would stop his service clock but would probably raise the ire of his agent and the players’ association unless his performance merited the demotion.

    In addition, one can argue that the Twins have a responsibility to put their best team on the field, even if it’s widely believed that this is a lost season. It’s one thing if you can assemble five respectable starters to hold down the fort until Gibson’s postponed arrival date, but if other hurlers like Scott Diamond or Mike Pelfrey need to start the year on the DL, you’re reaching pretty far down to grab a replacement.

    We also have to look at this from the player’s perspective. Gibson, who did everything he could after being drafted to put himself on the fast track to the majors, had his timeline pushed back dramatically by the Tommy John procedure. He’s already 25 and up to this point he hasn’t really made any money in his career outside of his signing bonus.

    A baseball player’s opportunity to earn is finite, and Gibson is already looking at being 32 before he has a chance to hit that big free agent payday. To have that milestone pushed back further – despite his proving himself in spring training – so that the Twins can save a little money down the line would be understandably frustrating and could create bad blood. Fans may recall the situations that developed when the agents of Francisco Liriano and Glen Perkins accused the Twins of employing a similar clock-delaying strategy in years past, and in those cases the club actually had solid ground because of the players’ performances.

    Keeping Gibson happy is probably more essential than anything to keeping him in a Twins uniform long-term, and if the team does right by him they shouldn’t have any trouble retaining him for as long as they like. If the young hurler pans out, then by the time he’s approaching that distant free agent eligibility date the Twins will surely approach him about an extension that buys out his remaining arbitration years and his first few years of free agency (think Scott Baker). At that point, all these concerns about the hypothetical end of his service clock will become irrelevant. The only thing that changes is that the Twins might have to pay him a little more, a little sooner.

    In this era of Target Field and increased financial flexibility, that shouldn’t be an issue. Personally, I’d rather have this organization form a rep as one that rewards players based on merit, not based on the approach that protects their financial interests. Given the questions raised over the past offseason about free agents’ desire to sign here, I think the Twins need to be very conscious of how they’re viewed by players and agents around the league.

    If Gibson shows signs this spring that he could use a bit more seasoning in Triple-A (which would hardly be shocking) then it would be wise to send him to Rochester for development, and the delayed clock is an added benefit.

    But if he does enough to convince coaches he’s ready to pitch in the majors, give him a spot in the starting rotation and allow him to begin establishing himself as a big-league ballplayer. The rest, as they say, will take care of itself.
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    This article was originally published in blog: Handling Gibson started by Nick Nelson
    Comments 44 Comments
    1. zenser's Avatar
      zenser -
      As a side debate to the question if/when Gibson should be up, what about his innings limit? Lets say he has a 150 inning limit on him this year. Would you prefer that he only goes 5-6 innings a start to ensure he gets 25 starts or would you rather see him go as long as he can per start and then run the risk of being shut down in August. Obviously, there will be starts he wont last 5-6 innings. I hope those are few and far between, but I also hope there are starts he could go 8-9.

      I am trying to think which ESPN analyst suggested that for Strasburg when he had about 10 starts left in order to prevent him from not getting shut down like he did.
    1. Riverbrian's Avatar
      Riverbrian -
      I have no opinion on his innings limit other than... I hope that the Twins find a different way to do it compared to how the Nats did it with Strasburg.

      If Gibson is pitching well and the Twins are still in contention in September. I hope Gibson isn't shut down.

      If this means a slowed down April and May or a break mid season... I don't know. I'd just rather see him throwing at the end of the year.
    1. snepp's Avatar
      snepp -
      Quote Originally Posted by Dave T View Post
      Exactly. The best players should be up here. Get over it.
      This is a message board where people discuss topics from varying points of view.


      There's nothing to "get over."
    1. Jim H's Avatar
      Jim H -
      I agree with the poster that suggested that the "right thing" to do with Gibson will likely be pretty obvious by the end of spring training. Right now, it seems that while he is likely healthy, he suffering the effects of not pitching competitively much in the last 2 years. It could easily be that pitching in the minors on pitch limit would make some sense. He could work on his mechanics, timing, secondary pitches, etc.

      On the other hand if Diamond and/or Pelfrey aren't ready and nobody else steps up, maybe starting in majors makes sense. I suspect the "right" answer will be more obvious by the end of the month.
    1. cmathewson's Avatar
      cmathewson -
      Quote Originally Posted by Nick Nelson View Post
      And has it ever demonstrably hurt them?
      Yes the Twins typically extend players long before they are eligible for free agency and sometimes before they are elligible for arbitration. But it seems to have hurt them financially in the case of Mauer at least, and some others as well. Because Mauer hurt his knee on the major league roster, he ended up spending most of that year on the major league DL, accruing service time and pushing the date of his first long-term deal up by a year. In an age where they were scraping by on the meager earnings Bill Lester (MSPC Czar) let them have, that meant hard choices elsewhere.

      The most obvious case of this is Nick Blackburn. He had two good years with the Twins between 08 and 09, after which they signed him to a four-year contract rather than wait until he was eligible for arbitration, which always drives up the price of any long-term deal. . If they had kept him in AAA for a month in 2008, they could have waited a year to do the long-term deal without looming arbitration to drive up his price. As it happens, he pitched badly in 2010 throughout his contract, largely the result of lingering elbow issues. And it continues to cost the Twins $5.5 million, despite almost zero chance he makes a contribution in 2013. It is one of the worst contracts in Twins history (almost as bad as the Joe Mays deal). Arguably, they would have avoided it altogether if they had just waited a month to give him a shot.
    1. FrodaddyG's Avatar
      FrodaddyG -
      Quote Originally Posted by cmathewson View Post
      Arguably, they would have avoided it altogether if they had just waited a month to give him a shot.
      Or if they could evaluate that a skilllset like Blackburn's wasn't exactly built for prolonged success. That should still be a much more important factor in figuring out who to give guaranteed money to than one less month of service time. The fact that "Blackie" had things on his side like being a "Twins way" pitcher and a Gardy favorite played significant roles in his early re-upping as well. The Twins would have likely been delighted to hand out that deal to "Blackie" at that time even if he had one less month of service time.
    1. snepp's Avatar
      snepp -
      Quote Originally Posted by FrodaddyG View Post
      Or if they could evaluate that a skilllset like Blackburn's wasn't exactly built for prolonged success. That should still be a much more important factor in figuring out who to give guaranteed money to than one less month of service time. The fact that "Blackie" had things on his side like being a "Twins way" pitcher and a Gardy favorite played significant roles in his early re-upping as well. The Twins would have likely been delighted to hand out that deal to "Blackie" at that time even if he had one less month of service time.
      Yes, Blacksie is/was a different can of worms. He was never the type of pitcher that was going to blow up arbitration, or pitch his way into an enormous free agent deal. His contract offered little potential reward right from day one.
    1. Nick Nelson's Avatar
      Nick Nelson -
      Quote Originally Posted by cmathewson View Post
      Yes the Twins typically extend players long before they are eligible for free agency and sometimes before they are elligible for arbitration. But it seems to have hurt them financially in the case of Mauer at least, and some others as well. Because Mauer hurt his knee on the major league roster, he ended up spending most of that year on the major league DL, accruing service time and pushing the date of his first long-term deal up by a year. In an age where they were scraping by on the meager earnings Bill Lester (MSPC Czar) let them have, that meant hard choices elsewhere.

      The most obvious case of this is Nick Blackburn. He had two good years with the Twins between 08 and 09, after which they signed him to a four-year contract rather than wait until he was eligible for arbitration, which always drives up the price of any long-term deal. . If they had kept him in AAA for a month in 2008, they could have waited a year to do the long-term deal without looming arbitration to drive up his price.
      As others have pointed out, the Twins bought out the rest of Blackburn's arb years when they still had four years left of control over him, which made little sense considering he was already performing as well as could be expected. Also, the Twins played 163 games in 2008 so it's pretty fair to say that every win counted, and Blackburn was one of best starters on the team. Replacing him with an inferior arm for even the first three weeks of the season could have been the difference between forcing a tiebreaker with Chicago and falling short (though in hindsight obviously it doesn't make a difference).

      The same goes for the example with Mauer in 2004. During the short time he played that year it was obvious he was MLB-ready; the alternative would have been starting Henry Blanco for the first three weeks of the season which -- with a playoff-caliber club -- is totally inexcusable. Yeah, it sucks that Mauer got hurt and spent most of the season accruing time in the MLB disabled list but who could have seen that coming?
    1. Shane Wahl's Avatar
      Shane Wahl -
      I would say that the "best 25" argument ignores those few players who although they may be in the top 25, might benefit from time in AAA and may end up being better in 2014 and beyond if some caution is used in 2013, which is clearly a dubious season for the Twins unless the Tigers have some serious injuries. Gibson, Hicks, and Arcia are in the best 25, I think. But x pitcher, Mastro, and Ramirez/Boggs might be better options to start out with.
    1. East Coast Twin's Avatar
      East Coast Twin -
      According to Souhan this morning, Gibson will likely start the season in the minors.

      Kyle Gibson pitched two innings in relief. Indications are he'll be sent to the minors so he can begin slowly building up his arm strength to prepare him for starting later this season. While the Twins were open to the idea of him starting the season with the big league club, that would have happened only if he had been lights out this spring.
      At this point, they'll probably ease him into duty and hope he can come up mid-summer and be at his best.
      Souhan: The bullpen is a mess | StarTribune.com
    1. mike wants wins's Avatar
      mike wants wins -
      Well, that sucks. Another reason not to go in the first two months of the year if true.
    1. Halsey Hall's Avatar
      Halsey Hall -
      His locker is empty this morning, so he's probably made the long walk to the minors. He didn't look very good last night. I'll bet he didn't walk alone this morning either the way some looked.
    1. Willihammer's Avatar
      Willihammer -
      I think the arb clock is sort of an afterthought with Gibson at this point.
    1. Brock Beauchamp's Avatar
      Brock Beauchamp -
      Quote Originally Posted by Willihammer View Post
      I think the arb clock is sort of an afterthought with Gibson at this point.
      It certainly is after this ST. While I argued that it might be a good idea to stall Gibson's clock a bit, most of my argument was based on the fact that he hasn't pitched much since TJ surgery and his time in AAA before surgery was completely mediocre.

      Too many people were counting on the guy to come back and be dominant too quickly. He's not Scott Baker. He's not even Mike Pelfrey. He has never pitched an MLB inning in his life. I'm still really high on the guy but I don't expect him to return to competition, vault to the highest level, and thrive in it right away.
    1. drjim's Avatar
      drjim -
      I always thought the arb stuff was silly. If he was good enough to be in the rotation to start the season they should have rolled with him. Clearly he isn't there yet. So all the years of control/arb is going to work out anyways.

      Terry Ryan said it best when asked earlier about whether arb/control would be a factor in decisions. He said let's see him make the team first.
    1. ALessKosherScott's Avatar
      ALessKosherScott -
      Quote Originally Posted by Brock Beauchamp View Post
      Too many people were counting on the guy to come back and be dominant too quickly. He's not Scott Baker. He's not even Mike Pelfrey. He has never pitched an MLB inning in his life. I'm still really high on the guy but I don't expect him to return to competition, vault to the highest level, and thrive in it right away.
      I'd note that it's also harder for a guy who depends on his slider like Gibson to bounce back from TJ surgery than a guy who's all fastball like Pelfrey. It's not uncommon for a pitcher to come back from the surgery throwing harder than he did before because his arm is clean. But after a year off, having a feel for your secondary stuff--especially breaking pitches-- is another story.

      Give him some time to get his feel back in the minors. If the Twins handle him smartly, they'll make him work on his change-up first, then slowly work more sliders back into the mix.
    1. Nick Nelson's Avatar
      Nick Nelson -
      Quote Originally Posted by Brock Beauchamp View Post
      Too many people were counting on the guy to come back and be dominant too quickly. He's not Scott Baker. He's not even Mike Pelfrey.
      I dunno. Gibson is now 18 months removed from the surgery so you would hope he'd be back to about where he was before, at which point he was pretty much MLB-ready. The command issues at this point are a tad concerning, IMO, particularly considering that location is such a huge part of his game.
    1. Brock Beauchamp's Avatar
      Brock Beauchamp -
      Quote Originally Posted by ALessKosherScott View Post
      I'd note that it's also harder for a guy who depends on his slider like Gibson to bounce back from TJ surgery than a guy who's all fastball like Pelfrey. It's not uncommon for a pitcher to come back from the surgery throwing harder than he did before because his arm is clean. But after a year off, having a feel for your secondary stuff--especially breaking pitches-- is another story.

      Give him some time to get his feel back in the minors. If the Twins handle him smartly, they'll make him work on his change-up first, then slowly work more sliders back into the mix.
      That's a good point. Gibson relies on that slider a lot and from everything I've seen and ready, that's the last pitch to come back after TJS.

      Sure, he's throwing harder but if that slider isn't working, his effectiveness will be limited (or non-existant) against MLB hitters.
    1. Brock Beauchamp's Avatar
      Brock Beauchamp -
      Quote Originally Posted by Nick Nelson View Post
      I dunno. Gibson is now 18 months removed from the surgery so you would hope he'd be back to about where he was before, at which point he was pretty much MLB-ready. The command issues at this point are a tad concerning, IMO, particularly considering that location is such a huge part of his game.
      But do we know which pitches he's struggling to control? If it's his secondary stuff, that shouldn't be entirely unexpected. He just doesn't have that many innings under his belt since the surgery. Sure, it has been 18 months since TJS, but only about 100 innings, the majority of which came against younger and inferior competition.
    1. CDog's Avatar
      CDog -
      Quote Originally Posted by Brock Beauchamp View Post
      But do we know which pitches he's struggling to control? If it's his secondary stuff, that shouldn't be entirely unexpected. He just doesn't have that many innings under his belt since the surgery. Sure, it has been 18 months since TJS, but only about 100 innings, the majority of which came against younger and inferior competition.
      I thought I remember in one of the articles on the game where he threw the three wild pitches in an inning that it mentioned they were all fastballs. I don't have time to try and find which one it was, though. And I also thought after the AFL that he said something along the lines of command of his fastball, but I'm less sure of that memory.
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