• Thome or Not Thome: That apparently is the question

    Ever since Minnesota Twins manager Ron Gardenhire mentioned to the media a couple of days ago that he would like to add a potent bat to his bench, conversations among Twins fans have revolved around just one player; Jim Thome. And why not? Twins fans’ memories of the hulking, Paul Bunyan-esque slugger look glowing to 2010.

    Thome came to the Twins and, in 108 games, he hit .283/.412/.627 (1.039). It was his best OPS since 2002. He gave fans many very lasting memories. I was at the game against the White Sox when he hit the walk-off homer against Matt Thornton and the White Sox. He hit his 600th home run for the Twins. He played a memorable role in Harmon Killebrew’s memorial service at Target Field. And there was his commercial with the big, blue ox.

    Late in the 2011 season, the Twins traded him back to Cleveland, where he began his career. Many thought that was the close of his career, but when Charley Manuel called him and asked if he wanted to pinch hit for the Phillies, he jumped at the opportunity, even willing to bring a glove to the ballpark. At the end of June, he had just 70 plate appearances in 30 games. The Phillies were out of it and traded Thome to the surprising Orioles where he played in two less games but accumulated 35 more plate appearances. Combined, he hit .252/.344/.442 (.780) with seven doubles and eight home runs.



    Why should the Twins sign Thome? He is a better hitter, even at 42, than the guys on the Twins projected bench. He might hit 6-8 home runs. He is a legend, a future Hall of Famer, and a great person. He would be very inexpensive.

    Why should the Twins not sign Thome? Well, he is 42. He can’t play defense. He can’t run. If he walks, he’ll need a pinch runner. He gets hurt a lot. The Twins have lots of options for the DH/1B spots with Justin Morneau, Ryan Doumit, Joe Mauer, Chris Parmelee. A right handed bat makes more sense. Thome has not been successful most of his career as a pinch hitter, and he doesn’t hit left-handed pitching well.

    As you can see, as much as I like Thome and respect him tremendously, I just don’t think it makes any baseball sense to bring back Thome. That is not to say that I would be disappointed if they signed him though.

    However, there are some other options remaining on the free agent market. A couple of the below players may make more sense to the Twins than Thome, and a couple of them obviously make no sense.

    Bobby Abreu
    – Abreu will turn 39 years old on March 11. He has had a tremendous career hitting .292/.396/.477 (.873). However, the last time he posted an OPS of .800 was 2009 with the Angels. He began the 2012 season with the Angels, but before the end of April, he was released after playing just eight games. A week later, he signed with the Los Angeles Dodgers where he hit .246/.361/.344 (.704) in 92 games. He has always had great plate discipline which might help him as a late-inning option and a veteran some of the young players could emulate.

    Johnny Damon
    – Damon will be 39 years old through the 2013 season. In his 18 year career, he hit .284/.352/.433 (.785). He had some very good years with the Royals, the Red Sox and then the Yankees, but the last few years have not been good. The Boras-client has been a one-year guy the last three seasons. He spent 2010 with the Tigers, 2011 with the Rays, and last year, he signed with Cleveland on April 17 for $1.25 million. He was released in early August after hitting .222/.281/.329 (.610) in 64 games.

    Derrek Lee
    – Lee did not play in 2012 after splitting the 2011 season with Baltimore and Pittsburgh. Combined, he posted a .771 OPS in 113 games. Although he will be 37 years old through most of the season, it is unlikely that he returns in 2013.

    Carlos Lee
    – Carlos Lee’s six year, $100 million contract is over. Although his power dropped significantly through those six year (to just eight in 2012), he was able to remain healthy. In 2012, he was traded from Houston to the Miami Marlins for two minor leaguers. In 147 games last year, the burly right-hander hit .264/.332/.365 (.697). In his 14 year career, he hit .285/.339/.483 (.821), although he hasn’t had an OPS that high since 2009. He also no longer can really play in the outfield. The intrigue with Lee is that he is a right-handed bat to compliment all of the Twins left-handed bats.

    Scott Podsednik
    – “Pods” provides no power to the bench, but his name has been thrown around the rumor mill in connection with the Twins. Why? I have no idea. In 2009, he played for the White Sox and Rockies. In 2010, he played for the Royals and Dodgers. In 2011, he played in the minor leagues in the Blue Jays and Phillies organizations. In 2012, he played for the Red Sox, but he was traded to the Diamondbacks on July 31, but Arizona released him two days later and he re-signed with the Red Sox. In 64 games for Boston, he hit .302/.322/.352 (.674). He has stolen 309 bases in his 11 year big league career. He will also turn 37 in mid-March.

    Scott Rolen
    – The seven-time All-Star and eight-time Gold Glove winner has been hurt quite a bit the last two seasons. In 92 games in 2012, he hit .245/.318/.398 (.716). In 65 games in 2011, he hit .242/.279/.397 (.676). He has had a lot of back problems and turns 38 just after opening day. He’s had a terrific 17-year big league career, but retirement and a lot of spa time would seem to make the most sense.

    Ryan Theriot
    – The 33-year-old utility infielder has been part of the past two World Series teams, the 2011 Cardinals and the 2012 Giants. Last year with the Giants, he played 91 games at second base and hit .270/.316/.321 (.637). His career OPS is .691, but he hasn’t approached that number since 2009.


    So, as you can see, there are other bench options that the Twins could still considering signing via free agency. None of them are particularly appealing. Maybe there are some trade possibilities, but frankly, since 2013 is about rebuilding, why would the team give up any prospect for a part-time player?

    This is certainly a hot topic among Twins fans since, well, there isn’t much to talk about. What do you think?
    This article was originally published in blog: Thome or Not Thome: That apparently is the question started by Seth Stohs
    Comments 42 Comments
    1. jokin's Avatar
      jokin -
      Quote Originally Posted by FrodaddyG View Post
      Because the DH spot already has a logjam of Mauer/Morneau/Doumit that will be rotating through the majority of the PAs, and Thome can't do anything but hit.
      Willingham also will be in that mix of jammed logs of DHs for 2013. 25 games at DH last year. Given his health history, it's very possible he will need to be playing more than that number at DH going forward.

      I've always loved Thome, even when he was on the enemy team, but it makes no sense to bring him back unless someone could demonstrate that he brings some intangible mentoring-value in coaching up the young up-and-comers in raising their power quotient in that allegedly "pitcher-friendly" Target Field.
    1. one_eyed_jack's Avatar
      one_eyed_jack -
      At this point I don't feel too strongly about this one way or the other. It's not a move that makes a lot of sense, but I'm not going to complain much of it happens.

      Best case scenario is that Thome shows enough that a contender takes an interest in him and he's dealt at the deadline. The Twins gets a lottery ticket prospect, and Gentle Jim gets one last shot at a storybook ending to a wonderful career.
    1. diehardtwinsfan's Avatar
      diehardtwinsfan -
      If you want to talk about moves that puts fans in seats, signing Thome is that... and given his abilities, he could win a few games during those late inning pinch hits as well. I see no harm in doing this other than a slightly lower draft spot next year... and you could argue that he'd be a great mentor for some of the younger guys.
    1. USAFChief's Avatar
      USAFChief -
      I would normally say no, a team in the Twins position shouldn't be giving ABs to guys his age, but if the only two choices are Butera or Thome, give me Big Jim. At least it'll bring some semblance of excitement to a few late ABs. Those saying there is a log jam at DH are assuming a lot about health through a 162 game season, too. So there's that.
    1. FrodaddyG's Avatar
      FrodaddyG -
      Quote Originally Posted by USAFChief View Post
      I would normally say no, a team in the Twins position shouldn't be giving ABs to guys his age, but if the only two choices are Butera or Thome, give me Big Jim. At least it'll bring some semblance of excitement to a few late ABs. Those saying there is a log jam at DH are assuming a lot about health through a 162 game season, too. So there's that.
      Of a team's concerns throughout a season, "depth at DH" is somewhere behind "who is the team's 6th catcher".
    1. Brandon's Avatar
      Brandon -
      Ok so here's what we have,

      DH Doumit
      C Mauer
      1b Morneau
      LF Willingham
      RF Parmelee

      All of these guys will need days off during the year. Yes they can get a breather at DH but i doubt any of these guys gets 162 games at their respective positions. Also Some one needs to hit for our dynamic MI Duo late in the games. that can easily be taken up by a player who can handle getting 150-250 plate appearances off the bench. If Thome gets 30-40 starts at DH and another 40-60 pinch hitting appearances I don't think that will affect anyones development as we dont really have anyone proven who can do that.

      Thome may well prove to be done in which case he would be cut after 30-50 plate appearances. Attendance is going to lag and I would rather watch him hit than Butera if given a choice.

      Not to mention if a player gets hurt the Twins won't have to rush Arcia or they can be able to put whoever they bring up in better situations. There is mostly only upside to this signing so why not. We will not keep him long if he is done.
    1. USAFChief's Avatar
      USAFChief -
      Quote Originally Posted by FrodaddyG View Post
      Of a team's concerns throughout a season, "depth at DH" is somewhere behind "who is the team's 6th catcher".
      You seem to have totally missed the point.
    1. by jiminy's Avatar
      by jiminy -
      He's not going to make them winners this year, and he's not going to help make them winners in the future. But if he makes people smile in an otherwise dreary year, that's not bad.

      If he started at DH too much and kept people like Parmalee from getting at-bats, that would be a problem. But seeing Thome coming off the bench to pinch hit every now and then might provide a few much-needed bright spots. So wouldn't mind either way.

      Signing Podsednik, though, would make me scream.
    1. nicksaviking's Avatar
      nicksaviking -
      Darren Wolfson is again Tweeting that the Twins have interest in Thome. He specifically mentions Gardy as interested (no shock) but says not all MN officials are on board. That would seem to imply that some officials ARE on board. I kind of doubt it, I think it's Gardy vs the front office on this one. Thome wants a MLB contract, the Twins obviously are not as willing to give one.

      Coincedentally(?) MLBTR is reporting that Vlad Guerrero also wants to come back but he IS willing to take a minor league deal. I love Thome, but there's little doubt the right handed Guerrero is a better fit, though neither may be a great fit.
    1. Willihammer's Avatar
      Willihammer -
      What a meager request from a manager on his way out the door. A league min bench bat for the 25th roster spot. I would be curious to know who/why it would get vetoed.
    1. Trev44's Avatar
      Trev44 -
      We should be combining rebuilding with reloading. Otherwise it is not worth the price of a ticket in today's world of household economics just to see a stadium. Thome makes sense, but better pitching would have made the season more legit to the average fan.
    1. nicksaviking's Avatar
      nicksaviking -
      My spidey sense was right, it was not a coincedence that Guerrero was advertising that he would take a minor league deal. Darren Wolfson Tweeted that Guerrero's people did in fact approach the Twins, but Ryan said no thanks. I'd guess they approached the Twins after it became known they weren't interested signing Thome on a major league deal.

      I wonder if the issue of having a bigger bench bat might cause some discord between Gardy and the front office.
    1. FrodaddyG's Avatar
      FrodaddyG -
      Quote Originally Posted by nicksaviking View Post
      I wonder if the issue of having a bigger bench bat might cause some discord between Gardy and the front office.
      Well, he could always say "it's stupid to carry a third catcher" and that would immediately upgrade the bench.
    1. nicksaviking's Avatar
      nicksaviking -
      As much as we like to throw Buetera in Gardy's lap, I would assume the 3rd catcher is what Gardy is willing to sacrafice to get the big bat. It would be either giving up the 3rd catcher or a middle infielder; I don't imagine they are going to cut back on the bullpen with all the question marks in the rotation. Unless Gardy assumes that Selig will grant the Twins a 26th roster spot. At the end of the day, it's not Gardy's call, Ryan has final say over who breaks camp with the team.
    1. bobby_baseball's Avatar
      bobby_baseball -
      The question basically is would you rather have Thome pinch hitting for Florimon/Carroll/Escobar in the late innings or a guy like Clete Thomas/Brian Dinkleman? You heard players rave about his mentorship from his previous stint. Would you hire Thome as your hitting coach for $750k, because that's basically what he would be. Hmmm... at this point it would be a Minor League deal and they would move him at the All-Star Break for a PTBNL. Seems like a no brainer from that standpoint.
    1. SpiritofVodkaDave's Avatar
      SpiritofVodkaDave -
      Why the hell would they not give Thome a major league deal? Just give him 1 mil and call it a day. Do they forget the guy had a 182 OPS+ for us in 2011? Yeah, last year he struggled a bit, but still had a 112 OPS+ which is about 5x better then what our current 25th man (Butera) gives us.
    1. jokin's Avatar
      jokin -
      Quote Originally Posted by SpiritofVodkaDave View Post
      Why the hell would they not give Thome a major league deal? Just give him 1 mil and call it a day. Do they forget the guy had a 182 OPS+ for us in 2011? Yeah, last year he struggled a bit, but still had a 112 OPS+ which is about 5x better then what our current 25th man (Butera) gives us.
      Yeah, I've been advocating in improving the appalling lack of projected bench strength for a while now, too,... but I seem to recall certain guys told us we simply had to accept Butera on the bench because we were stuck paying him $1M (sic) already.

      Actually, what's the problem with a 6th DH on the team?, gotta be better than a 6th catcher...
    1. SpiritofVodkaDave's Avatar
      SpiritofVodkaDave -
      Yes, because a hall of fame player like Thome is the exact same as a career minor league catcher.
    1. John Bonnes's Avatar
      John Bonnes -
      My best guess it that Thome's primary role would be that of pinch hitter for whoever is starting at middle infield. From a WAR standpoint that might not mean much, but from a WPA standpoint, it can make an impact. Certainly enough of an impact to justify a major league deal, especially given the surplus the team has.

      But he could also be the first guy off the bench for a couple of our more fragile guys....
      - Mauer needs a day off? Doumit to catcher and Thome to DH.
      - Morneau? Maure to first, Doumit to catcher and Thome to DH.
      - Doumit? Thome is the DH.

      There is also plenty of room for him. Leaving Butera off the roster (and having Hicks in CF) would give two bench bats (Thome and Mastorianni) and two middle infielders to cover for the two guys most likely for whom to pinch-hit. That makes the most sense. But they could go with one extra-middle infielder (leaving someone in AAA to work on getting ready) or even go with (gasp) just six relievers. (They might even be able to get by with four starters if they get a little luck on some early season cancellations.)

      I don't see the downside here.
    1. Top Gun's Avatar
      Top Gun -
      I think Thome is about done.
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