• Under-Delivering

    In his latest column for ESPN 1500, Phil Mackey opens with the following statement: "Unlike in the previous two offseasons, there will be no over-promising and under-delivering by the Minnesota Twins in 2013."

    Incidentally, that's pretty much exactly how I would describe this offseason for the Twins. Over-promising and under-delivering. Terry Ryan talked at length in the early days of winter about moving aggressively to upgrade the club's beleaguered pitching corps, and because I tend to trust Ryan, I bought into this stated commitment.

    In his interview for the Offseason Handbook, Ryan insisted that the Twins would pursue a "pretty darn good pitcher" in free agency. In a subsequent interview with MLB Network, he responded to a question from Ken Rosenthal about his apparent rebuilding approach by saying, "I think that's a good excuse to fail, Kenny. I don't have much interest in telling people we're playing for 2015. We need to get going here, we've had two tough years… We've got to quit talking about building for the future."

    All of that rhetoric certainly falls short of what we've actually seen this offseason, however. Ryan made a couple nice trades for the long-term, swapping out Denard Span and Ben Revere for some intriguing young arms, but his short-term strategy has been puzzling to say the least. Kevin Correia was the team's top "prize" in free agency, followed by fliers on a couple reclamation projects in Mike Pelfrey and Rich Harden. By nearly all accounts, the Twins have made very little effort to outbid the competition for remotely high-profile names. Now, with at least $15 million in supposedly available payroll remaining, Ryan is "likely done making significant moves."

    In his ESPN 1500 interview, the Twins' general manager attempted to put a realistic slant on the coming season, noting that making the playoffs would be ideal but is unlikely. This is probably what Mackey was getting at with his opening line, but even Ryan's adjusted goal of playing meaningful baseball in September looks like a reach based on the moves he's made. When your pitching staff ranks as one of the worst in the game, it takes more than a couple low-end stopgap solutions to foster significant improvement, and the club's hesitance to put more of its available funds toward tapping into that middle tier of starters suggests a level of commitment that is not in line with their purported resolve.

    Up to this point, the Twins have spent minimally in addressing their pitiful rotation via free agency, and if payroll remains around its current ~$80 million mark, it will be $15 million lower than it was last year and $30 million lower than 2011. Heck, right now the number is closer to where it was in 2007 in the Metrodome than where it's been any year at Target Field.

    Payroll isn't everything, of course, but the amount that the Twins are willing to spend says a lot about their true desire to promptly right the ship, especially with such drastic needs in the starting corps and so many free agent pitchers inking lucrative deals.

    Maybe Ryan and Co. really do believe they've done enough to position this team for a leap forward in 2013. Perhaps they're confident in the ability of internal options to step up, or they have some reason to believe Pelfrey and Harden will be healthy and productive that I'm not aware of. Perhaps there's another move coming and the quotes we're seeing are intended to flip the script by under-promising and over-delivering.

    Right now that's feeling like wishful thinking. If what we see is what we're going to get, this season is shaping up to be more of the same, and despite their adamant claims to the contrary the organization doesn't appear all that fiercely determined to prevent such an outcome.
    This article was originally published in blog: Under-Delivering started by Nick Nelson
    Comments 239 Comments
    1. TheLeviathan's Avatar
      TheLeviathan -
      Quote Originally Posted by lightfoot789 View Post
      Is it not possible, that Marcum is still a Free Agent for a reason? It is not like the Twins are the only team to not follow your plan. Maybe all 30+ teams see him as a risk and don't want to give him his asking price? Maybe the Twins are extremely wise not to give 3 years to a pitcher who has had serious arm problems for 2 of the last 4 seasons? What do your sources say about Marcum still being available and on the market (no sarcacism)?
      Yes, Marcum comes with serious risks. However - A) He's not blocking any AAA starters. Gibson, Worley, and Hendricks still have a spot. Essentially, he replaces someone we shouldn't give a rip about anyway. B) He's been a very good starter. C) The payroll is going to continue to drop next year, so it's not stressing our ability to retain or obtain anyone

      If this team isn't willing to take some risks like this one at a position of desperate need when it has payroll flexibility, that is a very worrisome future trend. And not one that any fan should abide while they pay above average ticket prices.
    1. snepp's Avatar
      snepp -
      Quote Originally Posted by TheLeviathan View Post
      Worst case scenario it eats half the money the Pohalds pocket anyway.
      Exactly this.

      Unless the team's plan moving forward is to permanently lower the payroll to infuriating levels (the bull**** this offseason better be temporary), his signing would in no way impede payroll flexibility.
    1. old nurse's Avatar
      old nurse -
      Quote Originally Posted by snepp View Post
      I'm still waiting on those reports of the Twins making quality offers to quality free agents, despite all the reports to the contrary.
      I am waiting for proof that any free agent wanted to listen to the Twins make them an offer.
    1. lightfoot789's Avatar
      lightfoot789 -
      I would still rather see Diamond, Worley, Pelfrey, Haren, and yes Correia this season and save $20 - $30 million to over spendnext year on a Top Free Agent Pitcher. (Maybe that allows ownership to go 5 years $100 Million to someone instead of 4 years $80 Million / just an over the top example). Saving money this year allows you to over spend next year and entice FA's to MN!! I would even let Gipson, Henriks, and Mays get some outings throughout the year just for experience. And yes neither of us know whether ownership will over spend next year, but I have to believe that most owners want to win.

      Final question to this topic - Who was the last TOP FA to sign with Twins? and don't say Willingham? He was a key FA, but a not Top FA.
    1. TheLeviathan's Avatar
      TheLeviathan -
      Quote Originally Posted by lightfoot789 View Post
      I would still rather see Diamond, Worley, Pelfrey, Haren, and yes Correia this season and save $20 - $30 million to over spendnext year on a Top Free Agent Pitcher.
      I'm not sure if snepp ever found the quotes, but the Pohlads run the Twins like any other business - they operate on a yearly basis. Thus, they don't carryover budget room to the next year or the year after. So, again - this is money that WILL be pocketed. Not put towards the team in any meaningful way.

      Seems to me you have been conditioned to accept such things.
    1. Top Gun's Avatar
      Top Gun -
      Who are the top free agents you want to over spend for next year? You must know, and I sure would like to know. Can you name the top 3 SP for me?
    1. Kwak's Avatar
      Kwak -
      Quote Originally Posted by lightfoot789 View Post
      I would still rather see Diamond, Worley, Pelfrey, Haren, and yes Correia this season and save $20 - $30 million to over spendnext year on a Top Free Agent Pitcher. (Maybe that allows ownership to go 5 years $100 Million to someone instead of 4 years $80 Million / just an over the top example). Saving money this year allows you to over spend next year and entice FA's to MN!! I would even let Gipson, Henriks, and Mays get some outings throughout the year just for experience. And yes neither of us know whether ownership will over spend next year, but I have to believe that most owners want to win.

      Final question to this topic - Who was the last TOP FA to sign with Twins? and don't say Willingham? He was a key FA, but a not Top FA.
      In '91 it was Morris, in '92 a pitcher from Pittsburgh named Smiley (he took Morris's place when Morris jumped to Toronto). After '92 the Twins' record headed South. I am not aware of any others that signed or were even offered a contract to play for the Twins. The philosophy of "lots of arm s" to fix the rotation is diametrically opposed to aquiring one star to accomplish the same goal. It appears that the "quantity" over "quality" preference has been in force for some time.
    1. snepp's Avatar
      snepp -
      I never did find the specific articles I was looking concerning the budget, and any google searches that include budget and revenue inevitably lead to a mountain of irrelevant results. These were the same articles that included front office comments about 52% of revenue going to payroll, etc.
    1. ThePuck's Avatar
      ThePuck -
      Quote Originally Posted by snepp View Post
      I never did find the specific articles I was looking concerning the budget, and any google searches that include budget and revenue inevitably lead to a mountain of irrelevant results. These were the same articles that included front office comments about 52% of revenue going to payroll, etc.
      are you talking about articles like the kind I posted on page two of this thread?
    1. drjim's Avatar
      drjim -
      Quote Originally Posted by TheLeviathan View Post
      There is no reason they can't sink some of that excess cost into more riskier investments that might pay off long term. There is no longer the option to spend at will in the international or amatuer ranks, so basically this money is being pocketed. As paying customers - we damn sure can bitch about money being pocketed after some explicit promises about changing the team's outlook.

      Shaun Marcum at 3 years cripples NOTHING. There is no reason not to do this. There is no backload of AAA pitchers he is getting in the way of. Hell, all he does is guarantee Blackburn doesn't make the rotation our of ST. I fail to see the downside.
      OK, if you go 3/30 on Marcum and he gets hurt, you don't think $10 mil+ of dead money in '15 could cause a problem? This is of course speculation as we have no idea what kind of contract he is looking for or has been offered or even what his medicals actually look like. I wouldn't have a problem with signing him to this type of deal, but I also don't have a problem with not signing him and seeing what you actually have with Diamond/Worley/Hendriks/Gibson and eventually May/Meyer with the other fillers currently on the roster.

      I personally don't care what the payroll is I just want the team to be as a good as possible with an appropriate balance of current success and future considerations. I never had big plans for this year so I would be hesitant to take a risk that might allow the team to scratch out a few extra wins this season at the cost of bigger downside in the future. I don't think a guy like Marcum is so great that they need to lock him up this year. There will be a guy or two like him next offseason they can go after if the team is in a better position to contend.
    1. snepp's Avatar
      snepp -
      Quote Originally Posted by old nurse View Post
      I am waiting for proof that any free agent wanted to listen to the Twins make them an offer.
      I have reports supporting the beliefs that they either offered crap, or offered nothing at all. Other than your opinion, what do you have to support it? If it's out there I want to see it.

      I'd love to be able to defend the front office by saying that free agents just hate us and refuse to play in Minnesota, despite TR offering to "make it rain," but the information available right now clearly suggests otherwise.
    1. snepp's Avatar
      snepp -
      Quote Originally Posted by ThePuck View Post
      are you talking about articles like the kind I posted on page two of this thread?
      Similar, but the ones I'm referring to go back to around the time that the stadium debate and the extend-or-trade Santana discussions were at their peak.
    1. ThePuck's Avatar
      ThePuck -
      Quote Originally Posted by drjim View Post
      OK, if you go 3/30 on Marcum and he gets hurt, you don't think $10 mil+ of dead money in '15 could cause a problem? This is of course speculation as we have no idea what kind of contract he is looking for or has been offered or even what his medicals actually look like. I wouldn't have a problem with signing him to this type of deal, but I also don't have a problem with not signing him and seeing what you actually have with Diamond/Worley/Hendriks/Gibson and eventually May/Meyer with the other fillers currently on the roster.

      I personally don't care what the payroll is I just want the team to be as a good as possible with an appropriate balance of current success and future considerations. I never had big plans for this year so I would be hesitant to take a risk that might allow the team to scratch out a few extra wins this season at the cost of bigger downside in the future. I don't think a guy like Marcum is so great that they need to lock him up this year. There will be a guy or two like him next offseason they can go after if the team is in a better position to contend.
      Payroll is gonna be at 80M this year...we'll drop at least another 20M when Morneau and Willingham are gone....and we're not bringing in any high price talent. We could have pre-arbitration eligible or 1st year arbitration players at every starting spot besides Mauer. We're talking Sano, Rosario, Parmelee, Florimon, Hicks, Arcia, maybe Benson. Along with Gibson, May, Meyer, Worley, Diamond.

      Why would 10M stifle us in 2015?
    1. johnnydakota's Avatar
      johnnydakota -
      Quote Originally Posted by Alex View Post
      I can give the Twins "some" leeway on this. After all the years of success and picking at the end of the draft, that talent pool was bound to dry up, even if I do think part of it is being behind in terms of talent evaluation. At least, have some promising young hitters in the system now that we can look forward to seeing in a couple of years.
      And how many can lay down a bunt?Advance a runner , hit the cutoff man, or how many middle infielders do we have that have under 30+ errors?how many pitchers refine or learn a new pitch since being signed? i find the entire system lacking and needing replacing .
      Ihave thought for some time now that we need to fire everyone from David ST.Pete right down to the janator in the instructional leaque , because for some time now kids arnt ready when they get to the show , even after sitting year after year in the minors...
    1. johnnydakota's Avatar
      johnnydakota -
      Quote Originally Posted by ThePuck View Post
      We do agree, all I was saying is I don't think the blame goes to either Pohlad OR Ryan, but both of them. In an interview with Pohlad, it was said that during rebuilding years the percentage of revenue spent on salary goes down. It's policy that's been in place for quite some time. Ryan does the spending, and he's dropped payroll 32M since he's come back as GM. Not sure how much of the drop was due to policy and how much was Ryan not doing what's necessary due to stubbornness
      And i believe Terry was brought back specifically to lower payroll. I think Pohlad gives the fans lipp service while telling Ryan to slash payroll
    1. snepp's Avatar
      snepp -
      Hammer, Doumit, and Correia currently come off the books after 2014, where would a 2015 budget crunch come from? They aren't likely going to spend any big free agent money, so any significant budget increases would have to come internally. Other than Worley going through arbitration, where are the big ticket obligations going to come from?

      Unless the Twins plan to actually open the free agent purse strings in the next couple of offseasons, giving a free agent a 3-year deal now just isn't much of a risk.
    1. johnnydakota's Avatar
      johnnydakota -
      Quote Originally Posted by drjim View Post
      I'm late to this thread, but I have a couple of observations.

      1. I thought the Twins handled the pitching about right. Before the season I thought they would sign an established guy, trade for a starter, sign a guy coming off of injury, and take a flyer on a fourth guy, while planning on having Diamond and Hendriks ready to start the season along with Gibson, depending on how they would space his innings.

      I thought they executed parts 2-4 fine. Worley is a fine trade addition, I preferred Baker but can live with Pelfrey, and thought Harden was a fine flyer (and wouldn't be surprised if there is another minor league signing or two). Like everyone I'm not a fan of the Correia signing, but I didn't want the Twins, in their current situation, going more than 2 years or giving up a draft pick. So, in reality the competition was McCarthy, Blanton, Lannan, Myers, and possibly Saunders or Marcum. I say possibly because we still don't know what those contracts will end up being (I have read they are holding out for 3 years, which I absolutely would not do). McCarthy is clearly better, but I'm indifferent about Correia vs. Blanton/Lannan/Myers. So overall, I can live with how it played out based on contracts and availability.

      2. Twins are not small market, but they are not large market. Realistically they fall into the same category as teams like Atlanta, St. Louis, Seattle and should be judged to that standard. Twins are not going to get the huge TV deal other teams have signed, just don't have the subscriptions to compete.

      I don't understand the whining about payroll. Ideally, as the Twins are rebuilding and moving towards younger players which will bring down the overall salary. I have already said I wouldn't want them to sign a pitcher for more than two years and it would be counterproductive to sign a position player that would block young player or prospect. There were no impact 3B/SS/2B and it wouldn't make sense to go multiple years for an OF. Who is there to sign? Should they spend money for the sake of spending money?

      I appreciate the frustration but what was the realistic alternative scenario? The issue right now is not an unwillingness to spend money or an inability to evaluate major league free agents. The problem has been bad trades, drafts that haven't worked out, and young players that never developed. The is minimal young talent on the roster and no core to build around. That has started to be remedied and hopefully they will move towards that during this year on both the major and minor league levels. There is no quick fixes - I think best case scenario is they have progress in the rebuild this year with some young players starting to establish themselves and/or have consolidation years in the minors, 2014 as the transition year where wins start to jump, and start competing in 2015.
      Marcier Izturis? This years gremlin....
    1. johnnydakota's Avatar
      johnnydakota -
      Quote Originally Posted by old nurse View Post
      OK I will nitpick more. You still have not addressed what the quote says.
      You say " We have information from a variety of league sources that the Twins met with players, but rarely made offers." You have no proof for the statement you make following that. You suppose it to be so, so it must be that way. (Am I learning how to argue like you guys yet? It is what you tell me in rebuttal to anything I say). In stating that the Twinslikely balked at a three year contracts, how long is or was the contract for Mauer, Morneau, Span, Baker, Blackburn, Nishi, Willingham and Doumit's (considering the extension made it a total 3 year contract) In 2008, what did they give Cuddyer? Sounds like a place that gives out contracts longer than 2 years. The nock on Marcum is the reported elbow pain. How much dis the Twins spend on injured pitchers last year? Do you think Pohlad wants to spend more for a pitcher who might have elbow problems with a loss of velocity?
      They have this site called MLB rumors...several times in the last couple of months different writters have posted just those words .
      As for Baker Ryan wanted 1 year plus an option , probally at a team friendly deal , so scott signed with the cubs,
      as for Cuddyer last year he offered him a 30% pay cut to return , probally the same for Kubal , declined Nathan , then im guessing tried to low ball him plus an option , much the same as baker . As for Crapps he acepted the 30% pay cut and returned ....
    1. johnnydakota's Avatar
      johnnydakota -
      Quote Originally Posted by ThePuck View Post
      Payroll is gonna be at 80M this year...we'll drop at least another 20M when Morneau and Willingham are gone....and we're not bringing in any high price talent. We could have pre-arbitration eligible or 1st year arbitration players at every starting spot besides Mauer. We're talking Sano, Rosario, Parmelee, Florimon, Hicks, Arcia, maybe Benson. Along with Gibson, May, Meyer, Worley, Diamond.

      Why would 10M stifle us in 2015?
      Blackburn and the gremlin ( carroll) as well so thats over 29 million if willingham is traded
    1. ThePuck's Avatar
      ThePuck -
      Quote Originally Posted by johnnydakota View Post
      Blackburn and the gremlin ( carroll) as well so thats over 29 million if willingham is traded
      Even if Willingham isn't traded, we only have him for two more years. He'll be gone in 2015 anyway
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