• Is The Window Open For Another Twins Trade?

    The Minnesota Twins’ offseason has been interesting to say the least.

    With the team trading away not one but two of their major league ready center fielders, the writing on the wall at 1 Twins Way appears to read that the focus is on the future. Outwardly, the Twins are sending the message that they are doing what they can to build a competitive team in 2013 but also taking measures to fortify the club for the coming years. Behind closed doors however, the tone may be different as the reality is that the organization recognizes the window for success begins at least one year down the road.

    And this may be the reason why Justin Morneau could be traded yet this offseason.

    During the winter meetings, the Twins were reported to have been “gauging interest” from other teams on what they would give for Morneau. Obviously nothing materialized at the time and, furthermore, the Twins may have simply been testing the waters rather than outright shopping their first baseman. That said, as the team made abundantly clear after last season, no one is untradeable.

    The conditions were not favorable at the time of baseball’s annual agent orgy, at least not for the first base market. Had someone like the Orioles offered up a top flight arm, Morneau may already be eating Maryland crab cakes. Instead, teams were still addressing other needs. Targeting vital up-the-middle position players. Trying to land top-of-the-rotation arms. The game’s top free agents had yet to sign. The dominoes were still mostly intact.

    That changed yesterday when Angels signed outfielder Josh Hamilton out from under the Texas Rangers’ nose. Not only did the Rangers lose a talented player to their division rival, they also became fairly exposed from the left-side of the plate.

    Because of that, it may not be long before the Rangers call on Morneau and ask: “How much?”

    Aside from losing Hamilton’s production from the left side, they also have lost their designated hitter in Young. Potentially desperate to address those needs, Rangers’ GM Jon Daniels may be inquiring on Morneau soon. With the Angels launching themselves into the catbird seat of the AL West and the surprising and youthful Oakland A’s extremely competitive as well, Daniels will surely need to counteract what his rivals have done this winter.

    From the Rangers’ perspective, targeting Morneau makes plenty of sense. In spite of witnessing a decline in his home run totals in recent years, a new venue could help rejuvenate the Canadian slugger. The Ballpark at Arlington is one of the most favorable environments for left-handed hitters to play. According to StatCorner.com’s Park Factors, Texas’s stadium has a home run factor of 117 (anything over 100 favors hitters). By comparison, Target Field’s confines thwart that type of power production to the tune of 78. In theory, Morneau’s numbers would be enhanced significantly with the Rangers.

    Additionally, with one year left on his contract, it would be a relatively risk-free (minus the concussion, of course) deal for Texas.

    Under most circumstances, the idea of asking a team to absorb $14M for a 31-year-old with injury issues may be a tall task, however, Texas is one of a few teams who seem able to assume the risk. The Rangers, who have lost Hamilton’s previous contract ($15.25M), Mike Napoli’s ($9.4M) and a portion of Michael Young’s ($5.5M of his total $16M owed), have payroll space to add Morneau’s contract if they so choose. As it stands, they have roughly $50M committed to players (pre-arbitration contracts, of course) after reached $120M in 2012. After all, in addition to whatever revenue they generate for being one of the best attended teams in the American League (2 of 14), they also have approximately $80 million a year coming in from their TV deal with Fox Sports Southwest.

    On the other hand, by most measures, the Rangers are a smart team. Daniels has been one of the most impressive general managers in the game – building his organization from the ground up, emphasizing scouting, bringing in elite international talent and targeting quality free agents. After making several moves to acquire players like Cliff Lee and Ryan Dempster in recent years, he has also lost some notable prospect talent so it is hard to envision the Rangers sacrificing much in any deal.

    Likewise, the overall market for Morneau was lukewarm at best at the deadline last year. Even losing a star player to a division opponent may not be enough to inspire Daniels to surrender the young pitching the Twins are hoping for.

    Would Morneau make the Twins better in 2013? Yes. Would trading him upset the fan base? Of course. Is he untouchable? Obviously not. The Twins sent the message at the winter meeting that Morneau could be had for a price, not it appears that the Rangers maybe in a position where they might have to pay that.
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    This article was originally published in blog: Is The Window Open For Another Twins Trade? started by Parker Hageman
    Comments 66 Comments
    1. BigVin's Avatar
      BigVin -
      Willingham will never have more value then he has now. TRADE HIM! I understand that we could possibly contend this year, but that would require everyone to stay healthy, and our Starting Pitching to do a 180. Not sure I see that happening this year.

      Trade Willingham and Morneau, and build for the future!

      I'd rather be good for years then maybe 1 year.
    1. Mauerpower's Avatar
      Mauerpower -
      Quote Originally Posted by gunnarthor View Post
      Hey, Bill Smith did that. Traded Garza for a Young and Ramos in a win-now trade.
      That was a stupid trade. I would love to have Garza right now.
    1. daveha's Avatar
      daveha -
      They better hurry. Adam Laroche wants a three-year contract and it appears the Washington Nationals are standing firm at two.
    1. Shane Wahl's Avatar
      Shane Wahl -
      Quote Originally Posted by Brock Beauchamp View Post
      That'd be my choice though Mauer is a slightly better average guy and slightly down in slugging.
      Yeah, I commented without looking and then looked and realized that Olerud slugged higher and batted lower. Everything else is pretty much the same. AND WAY CLOSER than the Dougie and Kendall comparisons bandied about over the past year+.
    1. jmlease1's Avatar
      jmlease1 -
      Quote Originally Posted by Chris in Osaka View Post
      Trade him and continue to lay the foundation for a competitive team in 2014. I'd try to find a taker for Willingham as well.
      Yes, let's get rid of as many proven MLB hitters as we can!

      I'm not diametrically opposed to trading Morneau if we get a good return, but this isn't basketball where tanking a season and clearing all your "cap space" sets you up for a quick return to winning. It's not easy to find hitters capable of carrying a team, drawing people to the ballpark, etc. And while the Twins have some hitters with the potential to do that coming up through the minors, right now they're unproven and several of them could easily bust.

      How much of a return would we get on Morneau, who is in the last year of his contract and has an injury history? I'd argue he's worth more to the Twins batting 5th, keeping the offense a quality one, and bridging the gap to the next generation of hitters than a couple of marginal A-Ball prospects. If someone wants to pay up for Morneau you listen but this isn't a guy you salary dump.

      Willingham brings in more, with 2 years at a great price coming off a career year...but how long have the Twins been searching for this kind of RH power bat? Price would have to be awfully high to consider it.

      No one should be truly untouchable on this roster, but we're starting to talk about players that don't make as much sense to deal as Span & Revere were. Both were younger players with even better contract situations playing positions in demand...and there are Twins fans suggesting that neither minor-league pitcher are top of the rotation starters! Would the return for Morneau & Willingham be worth the truly awful team the Twins would put on the field in 2013?

      How many people would crush the Twins for getting Target Field and pocketing the money then? How badly would attendance crater? How attractive would this be as a free agent destination? How desperately would we be relying on the minors to produce stars?

      The twins are taking a risk by dealing Span AND Revere that Hicks will be ready sooner rather than later, but it's a reasonable one, especially since Parmelee needed a spot to play and it brought back some high end arms that aren't 3 years away from getting a shot. Unless a deal for Morneau (or Willingham) brings back a middle infield bat that's relatively close as well, it's probably not going to end up being a very good deal for the team from both an economic standpoint and from a team-building one.
    1. ThePuck's Avatar
      ThePuck -
      Quote Originally Posted by Shane Wahl View Post
      Isn't the most apt Mauer-as-1B comparison John Olerud? By far?
      How about Carew? Oh wait, Mauer gets him in OBP AND SLG%...
    1. ThePuck's Avatar
      ThePuck -
      Quote Originally Posted by Brock Beauchamp View Post
      It baffles me how Twins fans continually underestimate just how ****ing good Joe Mauer is at the game of baseball. He's in "top five hitting catchers of all time" territory. What do some of you expect from the poor guy? Water into wine? Walking on water?
      Exactly. 3 time batting champ (no AL catcher had even one before him...no other catcher has 3). Has an MVP. 1st AL player since 1980 to led the AL in BA/OBP/SLG% (only catcher to ever do it). . Had a year this year right along career averages and led the major leagues in OBP. Hits great with RISP.
    1. Pjmcnally's Avatar
      Pjmcnally -
      Under most circumstances, the idea of asking a team to absorb $14M for a 31-year-old with injury issues may be a tall task
      The Twins shouldn't try to get rid of Morneau's contract. We are not going to be competitive this year so the money saved wont matter. The Twins should offer to pay part of the contract and in return ask for more value back from whatever team they try to trade with.
    1. Texas Mike's Avatar
      Texas Mike -
      The Twins are in a catch 22 when it comes to Mauer. The fan base will revolt if there is a trade, but his salary limits what else the team can do. There is also a catch 22 when it comes to trading him. The only justification for trading Mauer is getting a mother load back in return. But teams will not give a motherload for an "aging" catcher and if he moves positions his value diminishes.

      As for dreams of trading for Andrus or Profar---dream on. We do not have what it takes to obtain either one.
    1. mike wants wins's Avatar
      mike wants wins -
      His salary limits what they can do because they have set an arbitrary limit on their payroll....irrespective of new revenue next year.
    1. Kwak's Avatar
      Kwak -
      The biggest obstacle is not Mauer's salary or payroll in general--it's that the Twins are a bad team that are going to lose early and often this year and from the perspective of players and their agents even longer. The evidence of Sanchez shopping his CUBS offer to the team that "insulted him" is another example of the preference for players to be on a winner rather than a loser. Ryan was quoted as saying "...can't even give my money away..." is another example of said issue. Until the Twins develop a new core that can win consistently they will continue to fight the issue of being shunned by free agents (unless they make a substatially higher offer than the others). Unless we know what is being offered for a trade of Morneau (or anyone else for that matter) it is simply "beer-talk" to say trade him/don't trade him. I firmly believe that if the Twins keep Morneau for all of 2013 and make the qualifying offer for hi services for 2014 that Morneau will reject said offer and be signed for even more money by another team yielding an extra draft pick. Unless the Twins get more value than said "draft-pick" they should keep him--but I also firmly believe that there will be at least one offer that will be better than said "draft-pick" and his BB services for 2013. I encourage others to view that 2012 season's of other 1B (AL) and compare to Morneau's and I believe that you will see that there is no need to compensate a trading partner for his 2013 services. Risk? It's a 1 year contract--and all 1B have the same risk of injury over the season. Let the other teams used it for leverage--then reject their position. I hope the Twins rebuild quickly and when they do they show that they have learned their lesson of failing to add to a strong team (in the 2000's) to win a WS. A MLB team should not be operated like an office building.
    1. Lonestar's Avatar
      Lonestar -
      Some things to consider:

      Morneau and Parmelee are essentially redundant.

      The Dodgers reportedly preferred Morneau to Gonzalez. They gave up a lot of talent and took on a ton of bad contracts to get Gonzalez. There is some demand for him.

      Morneau is healthy now. There is a non-zero risk that he won't be healthy at the trade deadline.

      The Twins have many other needs besides pitching. Like SS, 2B, and LF (assuming Willingham DH's or is traded).

      The Twins can eat some or all of his contract.

      There is a possibility the Twins can resign him for 2013. If they want to.
    1. Jack Torse's Avatar
      Jack Torse -
      superb article
    1. lee_the_twins_fan's Avatar
      lee_the_twins_fan -
      The Twins are NOT going to trade Mauer. Mauer has a no trade clause, and he won't want to go anywhere. I don't think they'll trade Morneau or Willingham either. They're done trading, for now. Hopefully they will sign a really good starting pitcher, or two.*
    1. diehardtwinsfan's Avatar
      diehardtwinsfan -
      Quote Originally Posted by Brock Beauchamp View Post
      Dude, you are seriously underselling Mauer's ability. "Doug Mientkiewicz"? "Paul Molitor light"?

      Mientkiewicz had two seasons that were almost as good as Mauer's 2012, which was a slight disappointment compared to previous seasons and you could see Joe struggling to get his legs under him early in the season and then peaking as the season progressed.

      Molitor had an OBP of over .400 three times in his career. Mauer has already done it five times and he's not even 30 yet. I'd say that Molitor is a pretty good comp for Mauer with Joe being the better OBP guy and Molitor slugging higher. Overall, right now their careers are pretty similar, though Paul seemed to keep getting better with age. We'll see how Joe does in his early 30s. Either way, you could make the argument that Joe is the better hitter than Paul... and he's certainly not "Paul Molitor light".

      It baffles me how Twins fans continually underestimate just how ****ing good Joe Mauer is at the game of baseball. He's in "top five hitting catchers of all time" territory. What do some of you expect from the poor guy? Water into wine? Walking on water?
      yeah this... the only disapointment in my mind is that Mauer didn't play as many games behind theplate as I would have liked. As a catcher, he is one of the best of all time. Those numbers don't scream HOF at first, but they are at C. Having someone that gives you that much of a leg up at a key position like that is one of the big reasons why the Twins were competive the second half of the last decade.
    1. diehardtwinsfan's Avatar
      diehardtwinsfan -
      A few things... If 2013 is the goal, then trading Morneau will hurt us offensively. I'm fairly certain Mastro can match Revere's numbers and Parmalee should be able to out do Span from the offensive side of things. Trading Morneau removes an .800 OPS and potential .900 OPS from the lineup with nothing to replace it with. I'm fine with trading Morneau for the right price, but at this point, you are are calling up at least one of Hicks/Arcia (possibly both) and I'm not certain either are ready. Trading Morneau and Willingham means your OF consists of Hicks, Arcia, and Benson. Benson is definitely not ready.

      I suspect that the Willingham/Morneau trades will happen at the deadline as the Twins will get a chance to gage who of Arcia/Hicks/Benson are ready to take over and who needs more seasoning. If Mauer spends more time behind the plate, I could see Morneau getting an extension to play more DH...

      Waiting on both potentially heightens the return and gives the Twins a chance to see who can step in. I coudl see the Twins trading Morneau for an offer they couldn't refuse (like Profar or something like that), but I don't see that happening.
    1. ThePuck's Avatar
      ThePuck -
      Quote Originally Posted by diehardtwinsfan View Post
      yeah this... the only disapointment in my mind is that Mauer didn't play as many games behind theplate as I would have liked. As a catcher, he is one of the best of all time. Those numbers don't scream HOF at first, but they are at C. Having someone that gives you that much of a leg up at a key position like that is one of the big reasons why the Twins were competive the second half of the last decade.
      There were a few factors as to why he's didn't pay at catcher as much as he usually does. Morny needed rest recovering from the concussion. They told him that if he wore himself out, he could see the symptoms resurface. So they DH him or completely rest him, especially earlier in the season. Mauer was the best choice to fill in for him...and the decision was made even easier by actually having a real backup in Doumit. And then, you know, Butera needed his time too once Gardy got his 3rd catcher on board. I believe that from 2005-2010, only one player whose primary position is catcher played more total games and none had more plate appearances overall. Over the years, if Gardy didn't have the DH available, Mauer would have seen even more time behind the plate. It's important to remember though, that catchers just don't play 162. The position is too physically demanding. The most games started last year at catcher was 136...by an NL catcher.
    1. Brandon's Avatar
      Brandon -
      Morneau is not going to be traded unless a team overpays for him with prospects. Parmelee hasn't shown that he can consistantly hit up here which is what is keeping him from being redundant to Morneau at this point. With a full season next year we will see. Keeping Morneau until we see what Parmelee will do and if he can make adjustments here is risk management. Keep in mind that Morneau likes it here and would rather play here all things being =. (don't have to try to convince him to take our money). So I imagine that after next season when May and Meyer get a taste of the big leagues and he can look past 2014 as a reloading year, I bet Morneau would sign a 2 or 3 year extension as long as the money is reasonable. There's value in that for us. So i would think that to trade Morneau would require a better than market trade offer from the team thats going to get him.

      So whats the best way to plan the future of our offense at 1B, C, DH, RF and LF looks like an interesting post for someone to write about. Players in this equation at the moment include Willingham, Morneau, Mauer, Doumitt, Parmelee, then add Arcia, Sano, and more numerous OF prospects. I get the feeling Parmelee is the one who gets traded once he shows he can hit up here. imagine what we can ask for a power hitter who doesn't cost much in a trade. (part of a package for David Price next offseason?) (see will Myers return)
    1. mike wants wins's Avatar
      mike wants wins -
      Like the Twins would pay David Price. Ryan has stated very clearly that you cannot have 3-4 players earning half the salary of the team. Keeping Morneau and Mauer and adding Price puts you well over that limit.
    1. TopGunn#22's Avatar
      TopGunn#22 -
      Mauer is the face of the franchise and I totally agree with those who are baffled by how under appreciated he is. We are not trading Mauer. I was very encouraged by the season Morneau had last year, and I expect him to show improvement in 2013. While the signing of Correia really let the air out of any optimism I had for 2013 it may be true that TR can't give away his money right now to sign free agent pitching. If we can't sign a Marcum or Edwin Jackson then trades may be the only way. I maintain that Texas is certainly feeling the pressure now that their best "thumper" just left and even worse moved to a division rival. Morneau's value would increase playing in Arlington. Offer to pay $10 mil of his salary. We won't get Profar. Fine. Andrus would fill a HUGE hole on this team. Holland would be a fantastic addition to our starting rotation. Olt would be very intriguing. Without Monreau and Willingham we probably don't compete in 2013, but roll the dice and find out. Texas will probably give up more NOW than they would at the trade deadline. In Arlington, Morneau and Willingham could be worth 60 HR's and 200 rbi. The sales job TR has to make to Texas is that they can't afford to wait. Offer Morneau, Willingham and a prospect about #8-10 (not a pitcher) for 2 of these 3: Andrus, Holland, Olt. If Texas says no, fine. Keep our guys for now, but check in with Texas every couple of weeks. Wear them down and get something good the Twins can build around. In earlier posts it was suggested that if we could get Andrus we could flip him later. No way. If you finally get a SS that good (and when it's been a franchise Black Hole) you keep him and build around him.
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